Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

While Goku states that Vegeta's attack hurt him, Goku seemed more annoyed than anything else as he quickly recovered like nothing happened. I mean, his clothes weren't even damaged in the slightest.

I understand that it was a sparring match, but given how much people were going on about the raw power of SSJB, just how strong is Goku is in his base form for an attack from SSJB Vegeta, even in the case of a sparring match, to be more of an mild annoyance to him than actually severally injuring him like it would given the supposed huge gap in strength from base to SSJB tier in the manga?

And if that's not the case, doesn't this support the notion that you can could lower the strength in SSJB to varying degrees like you could in the anime?

Regardless of whether or not Goku has a super strong base, the jump from base to SSB is STILL ridiculously huge. It has to be at least over 400 times, bare minimum, considering Blue is stronger than SS3. This is a poor argument. Whether Goku's base is as weak as an ant or as strong as Beerus, the jump from base to SSB is still a multiplier. It remains consistent regardless of how strong Goku's base is at a certain point.

[Marlowe89]

Regardless of whether or not Goku has a super strong base, the jump from base to SSB is STILL ridiculously huge. It has to be at least over 400 times, bare minimum, considering Blue is stronger than SS3. This is a poor argument. Whether Goku's base is as weak as an ant or as strong as Beerus, the jump from base to SSB is still a multiplier. It remains consistent regardless of how strong Goku's base is at a certain point.

I think he's operating under the premise of a "God-level base Goku + Super Saiyan = SSB Goku", as was originally suggested in the RoF film and its supplementary materials before the hierarchy was changed into the more streamlined version we have now. Following that reasoning, a super strong base wouldn't necessarily be all that weaker than Super Saiyan Blue prior to that specific retcon.

With that said, the argument is still a stretch. It's just a sparring exercise, and there's nothing in the Super manga that concretely implies Goku to have the SSG-level base.

[Doctor.]

Regardless of whether or not Goku has a super strong base, the jump from base to SSB is STILL ridiculously huge. It has to be at least over 400 times, bare minimum, considering Blue is stronger than SS3. This is a poor argument. Whether Goku's base is as weak as an ant or as strong as Beerus, the jump from base to SSB is still a multiplier. It remains consistent regardless of how strong Goku's base is at a certain point.

I think he's operating under the premise of a "God-level base Goku + Super Saiyan = SSB Goku", as was originally suggested in the RoF film and its supplementary materials before the hierarchy was changed into the more streamlined version we have now. Following that reasoning, a super strong base wouldn't necessarily be all that weaker than Super Saiyan Blue prior to that specific retcon.

With that said, the argument is still a stretch. It's just a sparring exercise, and there's nothing in the Super manga that concretely implies Goku to have the SSG-level base.

There's really no time for that that interpretation to hold its weight. There's no RF arc in the manga, it jumps straight to the Champa arc where the golden-haired Super Saiyan forms are reintroduced. Goku had a super strong base for one chapter during one sparring match? What's the point?

[Marlowe89]

Oh, I concur. The fact that all of this exists within the same arc at all would cast doubt on that interpretation.

Still, it's interesting to think about who, if not Toriyama, may have influenced the franchise to bring those four Super Saiyan forms back into the mix. Even Super Saiyan God wasn't originally intended to show up again according to one of the old BoG interviews.

[ZombieVito]

True, but that's a promotional tie-in for the movie. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that it's 100% identical to Super's continuity, and it was drawn a few months prior to the beginning of the manga.

Yet panels of that tie in manga are used in the Super manga.

[SayianBeyondGod]

I think the magazine came out shortly after 129 or shortly before idk somewhere in that time frame, but the context images of the magazine, uses UI omen and since UI omen goku is only slightly behind jiren ( mostly cause he cant attack hard enough ), this honestly makes a lot of sense, I say if you placed UI omen as a 10 beerus at minimum is a 9.8 and could beat him if he out stratagized him, or waited for it to wear off and just tanked hits, as there not the strongest hits ever any way.

It's doesn't matter what the images show, if you don't understand the context of the statement itself let alone. The statement clearly implies "new power" which implies to be a recent power espeically when this epsiode came out after 129 when UI first appeared which I now remember after looking at my past posts. UI from this shoden jump magzine was stated to be a power more powerful than a God of Destruction:

- それは破壊神をも超越する力！
- Sore wa hakaishin wo mo chouetsu suru chikara !
- "This is the power that surpasses even that of a God of Destruction's !".

Since UI omen is weaker it's not going to be rivalling any hakaishins like UI was meant. It makes more sense if potentially surpassing Beerus in a future magazine was due to UI itself rather than the UI omen. If you think about it even Belmod was aware that Goku with UI Omen hasn't mastered the offensive side yet and knew there's a still a level ahead which may suggest even Belmod may learnt both side but can't maintain it like Goku.

[Sora Saiyan]

The implication of Goku and Vegeta having incredibly strong base forms comes from this moment in Chapter 5:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
While Goku states that Vegeta's attack hurt him, Goku seemed more annoyed than anything else as he quickly recovered like nothing happened. I mean, his clothes weren't even damaged in the slightest.

I understand that it was a sparring match, but given how much people were going on about the raw power of SSJB, just how strong is Goku is in his base form for an attack from SSJB Vegeta, even in the case of a sparring match, to be more of an mild annoyance to him than actually severally injuring him like it would given the supposed huge gap in strength from base to SSJB tier in the manga?

And if that's not the case, doesn't this support the notion that you can could lower the strength in SSJB to varying degrees like you could in the anime?

Well that showing is best described with an out of universe answer. SSJB wasn’t yet shown, and showing it off here led to a gag moment that had the name of the form being changed.
In universe Vegeta obviously wasn’t trying to kill Goku so he held back, maybe he did it so Goku would also transform into SSJGSSJ and they would have a SSJGS... I mean SSJB match.

Either way, finally we’ve been given a showing of the god forms power in relation to the other forms. I know we had the slight one with Trunks being SSJ3 level, and Goku becoming SSJG to finish Trunks in one blow before he knew what happened. But the best display to show the difference in power was when Toppo fought Goku and we were shown all the SSJ forms. SSJ-SSJ3 did absolutely nothing against a suppressed Toppo, who was just fucking around with SSJ3 to make him change again, and then Goku warns Toppo that he’s gonna transform and it will be an entirely different level, Toppo then concurs upon seeing the form and also reveals his true power aswell, but even upon revealing his true power he was only able to match SSJG. That showing definitely shows the gap between SSJG is much, much bigger than the gap between SSJ to SSJ3. This is backed up by the fact that SSJ3 Goku states that his transformations are useless implying that suppressed Toppo is a goal post that even the multiplier from SSJ to 3 isnt making a dent in closing, yet even though he states this he still warns Toppo about SSJG, and as we know it puts him from being waaaay below suppressed Toppo to equal with FP Toppo.

It was nice to actually see that outside of BoG the god forms make the other ones look like a child’s play thing. Btw this isn’t me inviting an argument for when this isn’t exactly shown à la Vegeta unexplained SSJ2 (please me mid SSJG or that mutated form, though even for that mutated form it seems excessive) vs Black that is somehow something like 100x SSJ3 Goku when he fought Trunks (saying 100 instead of 50 because Black beat Trunks super comfortable), and the wonky Uni 6 fight with Hit, which I can only call a retcon (SSJ2 and 3 weren’t meant to be coming back) or an outlier at this stage as there’s no way regular SSJ could do anything to Hit unless Vegeta SSJB was fighting at like 0.00001% of his regular power as shown in the more current showings.
This is just me mentioning the moments that the manga has intentionally gone out of its way to show us the clear difference in the god forms to the regular ones.

[brett wheeler]

I think the magazine came out shortly after 129 or shortly before idk somewhere in that time frame, but the context images of the magazine, uses UI omen and since UI omen goku is only slightly behind jiren ( mostly cause he cant attack hard enough ), this honestly makes a lot of sense, I say if you placed UI omen as a 10 beerus at minimum is a 9.8 and could beat him if he out stratagized him, or waited for it to wear off and just tanked hits, as there not the strongest hits ever any way.

It's doesn't matter what the images show, if you don't understand the context of the statement itself let alone. The statement clearly implies "new power" which implies to be a recent power espeically when this epsiode came out after 129 when UI first appeared which I now remember after looking at my past posts. UI from this shoden jump magzine was stated to be a power more powerful than a God of Destruction:

- それは破壊神をも超越する力！
- Sore wa hakaishin wo mo chouetsu suru chikara !
- "This is the power that surpasses even that of a God of Destruction's !".

Since UI omen is weaker it's not going to be rivalling any hakaishins like UI was meant. It makes more sense if potentially surpassing Beerus in a future magazine was due to UI itself rather than the UI omen. If you think about it even Belmod was aware that Goku with UI Omen hasn't mastered the offensive side yet and knew there's a still a level ahead which may suggest even Belmod may learnt both side but can't maintain it like Goku.

I guess its very possible but ui omen and MUI aare both new powers for this arc, so its uncertain witch one it could be referring to, secondly why could UI omen give FP jiren any kinda fight, especially to the point that he was almost on par just unable to land a strong enough hit due to overthinking, this in my mind doesnt make sense the GoDs are not that far off from one another and jiren was already stated to be above belmod at least, this in my mind would put him around the same as beerus as beerus is one of the strongest GoDs but not to much stronger, belmod certainly isnt one of the weakest gods as he held his own with taking on a couple GoDs at once, so I just dont see him being that far below beerus, add this with jiren is stronger and UI omen goku competed with jiren on a serious level and it becomes hard to put UI omen far below beerus at all, from there MUI goku thrashed FP jiren like it was easy, untill jiren awakened dormant power, or basically broke his limits, so where would you place UI omen in comparison to beerus if beerus possibly=jiren slightly>belmod,would you say UI omen is about on par with jiren and beerus and just wasnt capable of attacking right, or would you say he is with belmod and is only slightly below them, either way he isnt far off with UI omen from beerus definitely in the realm of the GoDs, man they really needed to point this out better.

[SayianBeyondGod]

I think the magazine came out shortly after 129 or shortly before idk somewhere in that time frame, but the context images of the magazine, uses UI omen and since UI omen goku is only slightly behind jiren ( mostly cause he cant attack hard enough ), this honestly makes a lot of sense, I say if you placed UI omen as a 10 beerus at minimum is a 9.8 and could beat him if he out stratagized him, or waited for it to wear off and just tanked hits, as there not the strongest hits ever any way.

It's doesn't matter what the images show, if you don't understand the context of the statement itself let alone. The statement clearly implies "new power" which implies to be a recent power espeically when this epsiode came out after 129 when UI first appeared which I now remember after looking at my past posts. UI from this shoden jump magzine was stated to be a power more powerful than a God of Destruction:

- それは破壊神をも超越する力！
- Sore wa hakaishin wo mo chouetsu suru chikara !
- "This is the power that surpasses even that of a God of Destruction's !".

Since UI omen is weaker it's not going to be rivalling any hakaishins like UI was meant. It makes more sense if potentially surpassing Beerus in a future magazine was due to UI itself rather than the UI omen. If you think about it even Belmod was aware that Goku with UI Omen hasn't mastered the offensive side yet and knew there's a still a level ahead which may suggest even Belmod may learnt both side but can't maintain it like Goku.

I guess its very possible but ui omen and MUI aare both new powers for this arc, so its uncertain witch one it could be referring to, secondly why could UI omen give FP jiren any kinda fight, especially to the point that he was almost on par just unable to land a strong enough hit due to overthinking, this in my mind doesnt make sense the GoDs are not that far off from one another and jiren was already stated to be above belmod at least, this in my mind would put him around the same as beerus as beerus is one of the strongest GoDs but not to much stronger, belmod certainly isnt one of the weakest gods as he held his own with taking on a couple GoDs at once, so I just dont see him being that far below beerus, add this with jiren is stronger and UI omen goku competed with jiren on a serious level and it becomes hard to put UI omen far below beerus at all, from there MUI goku thrashed FP jiren like it was easy, untill jiren awakened dormant power, or basically broke his limits, so where would you place UI omen in comparison to beerus if beerus possibly=jiren slightly>belmod,would you say UI omen is about on par with jiren and beerus and just wasnt capable of attacking right, or would you say he is with belmod and is only slightly below them, either way he isnt far off with UI omen from beerus definitely in the realm of the GoDs, man they really needed to point this out better.

Both Manga and Anime follow different scaling so I wouldn't compare nor I agree. The shoden Jump Maganize with the introducation if silver hair Goku came before the other magzine, so it wouldn't make sense for new power to be address as UI Omen espeically when that has been introduced less recent and was last year. Both magzines were promotion of the silver hair UI Goku, but again I question the credibility of the magzines considering Beerus never implied anthing of UI Goku giving him a run for his money.

[Marlowe89]

Yet panels of that tie in manga are used in the Super manga.

A single reused panel of Roshi, Krillin, Gohan etc. fighting Frieza's army doesn't really prove anything though. We know that the general narrative is the same in all mediums barring certain differences, but the tie-in comic itself still isn't labeled as being a part of the Super manga.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I wonder how effortlessly Jiren will handle A mastered SSB goku in the manga. I wonder if he will blink him away like in the anime. I believe that the manga will give us the answers we all wanted to hear in the anime. Whether UI omen goku is on beerus level or not. How strong hakaishin toppo actually is compared to current hakaishins. And other stuff as well.

[ToshioWrites]

I wonder how effortlessly Jiren will handle A mastered SSB goku in the manga. I wonder if he will blink him away like in the anime. I believe that the manga will give us the answers we all wanted to hear in the anime. Whether UI omen goku is on beerus level or not. How strong hakaishin toppo actually is compared to current hakaishins. And other stuff as well.

I think it will be like MSSB Vegeta vs Beerus. Where Goku is able to compete with a non serious jiren and then jiren steps it up just a little bit and completely demolishes him

I personally don't think Toppo transforming into a GoD will happen in the manga, I get the feeling thats a toei exclusive but I could be wrong

[dragon boss z]

I wonder how effortlessly Jiren will handle A mastered SSB goku in the manga. I wonder if he will blink him away like in the anime. I believe that the manga will give us the answers we all wanted to hear in the anime. Whether UI omen goku is on beerus level or not. How strong hakaishin toppo actually is compared to current hakaishins. And other stuff as well.

I think it will be like MSSB Vegeta vs Beerus. Where Goku is able to compete with a non serious jiren and then jiren steps it up just a little bit and completely demolishes him

I personally don't think Toppo transforming into a GoD will happen in the manga, I get the feeling thats a toei exclusive but I could be wrong

Ya I agree. Toppo probably won't transform, he will just use god ki and get serious like he did against Goku in the exhibition, and Vegeta will just used MSSB to beat him, not a new form.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I wonder how effortlessly Jiren will handle A mastered SSB goku in the manga. I wonder if he will blink him away like in the anime. I believe that the manga will give us the answers we all wanted to hear in the anime. Whether UI omen goku is on beerus level or not. How strong hakaishin toppo actually is compared to current hakaishins. And other stuff as well.

I think it will be like MSSB Vegeta vs Beerus. Where Goku is able to compete with a non serious jiren and then jiren steps it up just a little bit and completely demolishes him

I personally don't think Toppo transforming into a GoD will happen in the manga, I get the feeling thats a toei exclusive but I could be wrong

I do. Its a major key point in the anime, so it mostlikely is as well in the manga.

[ToshioWrites]

I wonder how effortlessly Jiren will handle A mastered SSB goku in the manga. I wonder if he will blink him away like in the anime. I believe that the manga will give us the answers we all wanted to hear in the anime. Whether UI omen goku is on beerus level or not. How strong hakaishin toppo actually is compared to current hakaishins. And other stuff as well.

I think it will be like MSSB Vegeta vs Beerus. Where Goku is able to compete with a non serious jiren and then jiren steps it up just a little bit and completely demolishes him

I personally don't think Toppo transforming into a GoD will happen in the manga, I get the feeling thats a toei exclusive but I could be wrong

I do. Its a major key point in the anime, so it mostlikely is as well in the manga.

The anime announced toppo as a GoD candidate via him transforming whereas in the manga he was already introduced as the next GoD at the exhibition match. I think he will just go full power with god ki and fight MSSB Vegeta but I could be wrong

[brett wheeler]

It's doesn't matter what the images show, if you don't understand the context of the statement itself let alone. The statement clearly implies "new power" which implies to be a recent power espeically when this epsiode came out after 129 when UI first appeared which I now remember after looking at my past posts. UI from this shoden jump magzine was stated to be a power more powerful than a God of Destruction:

- それは破壊神をも超越する力！
- Sore wa hakaishin wo mo chouetsu suru chikara !
- "This is the power that surpasses even that of a God of Destruction's !".

Since UI omen is weaker it's not going to be rivalling any hakaishins like UI was meant. It makes more sense if potentially surpassing Beerus in a future magazine was due to UI itself rather than the UI omen. If you think about it even Belmod was aware that Goku with UI Omen hasn't mastered the offensive side yet and knew there's a still a level ahead which may suggest even Belmod may learnt both side but can't maintain it like Goku.

I guess its very possible but ui omen and MUI aare both new powers for this arc, so its uncertain witch one it could be referring to, secondly why could UI omen give FP jiren any kinda fight, especially to the point that he was almost on par just unable to land a strong enough hit due to overthinking, this in my mind doesnt make sense the GoDs are not that far off from one another and jiren was already stated to be above belmod at least, this in my mind would put him around the same as beerus as beerus is one of the strongest GoDs but not to much stronger, belmod certainly isnt one of the weakest gods as he held his own with taking on a couple GoDs at once, so I just dont see him being that far below beerus, add this with jiren is stronger and UI omen goku competed with jiren on a serious level and it becomes hard to put UI omen far below beerus at all, from there MUI goku thrashed FP jiren like it was easy, untill jiren awakened dormant power, or basically broke his limits, so where would you place UI omen in comparison to beerus if beerus possibly=jiren slightly>belmod,would you say UI omen is about on par with jiren and beerus and just wasnt capable of attacking right, or would you say he is with belmod and is only slightly below them, either way he isnt far off with UI omen from beerus definitely in the realm of the GoDs, man they really needed to point this out better.

Both Manga and Anime follow different scaling so I wouldn't compare nor I agree. The shoden Jump Maganize with the introducation if silver hair Goku came before the other magzine, so it wouldn't make sense for new power to be address as UI Omen espeically when that has been introduced less recent and was last year. Both magzines were promotion of the silver hair UI Goku, but again I question the credibility of the magzines considering Beerus never implied anthing of UI Goku giving him a run for his money.

Well idk it's verry confusing, UI omen being near beerus does t really go against anything but neither does it being weaker, same goes for jiren I guess but still by beerus sheer shock when jiren just flexed a little and his comment that all this power is coming from one mortal, to me this says he views jiren as threat or at least a challenge, I'm assuming he was aware of jiren being suppressed as well, mostly every one was aware of this in the stands, who's even comments that jiren strength was similar to a God and maby beyond it, then you have UI omen competing with him at FP, all in all it's verry confusing and we will probably never get in anime conformation and just have to wait for an interview of this book or something, also on the idea this magazine is questionable, while true at the same time it's all we have to go on, so until proven wrong it doesn't really contradict anything just makes statements that arnt in the anime is all.

[Hugo Boss]

So if Final Form Freeza <= Base Goku in Revival F then Base Cabba, Magetta and Even Frost (vegeta used ss albeit suppressed) would all kick his ass in final form, doesn't make sense

Not trying to defend the narrative, which is very subtle on this aspect, but Frost was about to use forbidden moves and Vegeta’s chance was an one shot. In another hand, he had his movements restricted when he fought Magetta and needed a way to reclaim advantage. Also, it looked like he had an edge over Cabba, which become more clear when they became Super Saiyans. So, since there is a possible different set of rules (Frost playing fair, Vegeta moving freely and not tutoring Cabba), you can work with the idea that at least one of these guys is not necessarily more powerful than that Goku from RoF Arc. Though, I agree Magetta would probably kick some ass given how he took the final flash and how Vegeta responded to him later in the Top Arc. Either way, it’s only recently that we see Freeza having confidence on taking Super Saiyans in his final form. We can just assume he got stronger in that form as well.

[ToshioWrites]

So if Final Form Freeza <= Base Goku in Revival F then Base Cabba, Magetta and Even Frost (vegeta used ss albeit suppressed) would all kick his ass in final form, doesn't make sense

Not trying to defend the narrative, which is very subtle on this aspect, but Frost was about to use forbidden moves and Vegeta’s chance was an one shot. In another hand, he had his movements restricted when he fought Magetta and needed a way to reclaim advantage. Also, it looked like he had an edge over Cabba, which become more clear when they became Super Saiyans. So, since there is a possible different set of rules (Frost playing fair, Vegeta moving freely and not tutoring Cabba), you can work with the idea that at least one of these guys is not necessarily more powerful than that Goku from RoF Arc. Though, I agree Magetta would probably kick some ass given how he took the final flash and how Vegeta responded to him later in the Top Arc. Either way, it’s only recently that we see Freeza having confidence on taking Super Saiyans in his final form. We can just assume he got stronger in that form as well.

Do you think thats what was intended in the movie or was base goku USING god ki >= final form freeza and maybe the anime staff messed up or communication was off in that regard?

Cause my interpretation ( i could be wrong) is that in the movie goku could only go blue on top of his normal state that fought f form freeza.

[Koitsukai]

Couldn't MSSB from the manga actually be the SSBE from the anime?

Regarding the events from 110, I think the gap Goku closed was big enough to be considered hakaishin level, actually that was the vibe the episode gave when it aired, at least to me. That insurmountable power displayed by Jiren was so far from SSBKK20 that it makes sense if a GoD would be needed to face him. When UI appeared, Beerus was sort of jealous and Whis was really excited, and until the genkidama that fuelled it ran out, Goku was actually about to take the lead. Later, Hit was disposed with ease and uninterest.
But then 116 comes along and spectators comments, not feats, nerf the whole one-hour special, suddenly everyone is able to reach the level they were in 110, and even higher, making everything muddy and even more confusing.

So for Beerus to keep some relevance in the powerscaling, probably was just surpassed in 130.

[SayianBeyondGod]

I guess its very possible but ui omen and MUI aare both new powers for this arc, so its uncertain witch one it could be referring to, secondly why could UI omen give FP jiren any kinda fight, especially to the point that he was almost on par just unable to land a strong enough hit due to overthinking, this in my mind doesnt make sense the GoDs are not that far off from one another and jiren was already stated to be above belmod at least, this in my mind would put him around the same as beerus as beerus is one of the strongest GoDs but not to much stronger, belmod certainly isnt one of the weakest gods as he held his own with taking on a couple GoDs at once, so I just dont see him being that far below beerus, add this with jiren is stronger and UI omen goku competed with jiren on a serious level and it becomes hard to put UI omen far below beerus at all, from there MUI goku thrashed FP jiren like it was easy, untill jiren awakened dormant power, or basically broke his limits, so where would you place UI omen in comparison to beerus if beerus possibly=jiren slightly>belmod,would you say UI omen is about on par with jiren and beerus and just wasnt capable of attacking right, or would you say he is with belmod and is only slightly below them, either way he isnt far off with UI omen from beerus definitely in the realm of the GoDs, man they really needed to point this out better.

Both Manga and Anime follow different scaling so I wouldn't compare nor I agree. The shoden Jump Maganize with the introducation if silver hair Goku came before the other magzine, so it wouldn't make sense for new power to be address as UI Omen espeically when that has been introduced less recent and was last year. Both magzines were promotion of the silver hair UI Goku, but again I question the credibility of the magzines considering Beerus never implied anthing of UI Goku giving him a run for his money.

Well idk it's verry confusing, UI omen being near beerus does t really go against anything but neither does it being weaker, same goes for jiren I guess but still by beerus sheer shock when jiren just flexed a little and his comment that all this power is coming from one mortal, to me this says he views jiren as threat or at least a challenge, I'm assuming he was aware of jiren being suppressed as well, mostly every one was aware of this in the stands, who's even comments that jiren strength was similar to a God and maby beyond it, then you have UI omen competing with him at FP, all in all it's verry confusing and we will probably never get in anime conformation and just have to wait for an interview of this book or something, also on the idea this magazine is questionable, while true at the same time it's all we have to go on, so until proven wrong it doesn't really contradict anything just makes statements that arnt in the anime is all.

It's contradicted by the fact thet UI was introduced as a power that rivals the Gods while surpassing some, though the magazines lead me to interperte they're talking about the technquie itself considering this is what was said in one of them:

- それはウイスとの修業中に仄めかされた、神すら辿り着けぬ境地
- Sore ha Whis to no shuugyouchuu ni honomekasareta, kami sura tadoritsukenu kyouchi
- This is what Whis hinted at during his lessons, a state that even Gods struggle to reach

As I said for the former, the fact UI Omen which is weaker than UI means it shouldn't be rivalling the gods yet. Beerus has been shocked from weaker people from the past, he's surpised that a mortal is that strong not that he's anything of threat to him. Whis is basing his statement off a rumor not that Jiren was using currently power to surpass a God, which fits the context of Beerus being suprised for Jiren being strong for a mortal. UI omen never fought a fullpower Jiren at all so I don't know where you're getting that information from.