Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[Nia]

I just realized I used the "mad" emote before. That was not intentional.
I meant for it to be more like but I guess the combination I used resulted in making me look like I was ticked off.
Kinda changes the tone my remark gave off. Sorry about that! Just gonna go sit in the corner and wonder how I missed that goof up until now...

[8000 Saiyan]

Honestly, I don't think it's fair to just lay judgements on Burgmeier; the directing in the old Funi dub was really bad. I'd argue worse than Westwood. Tons of bad actors in there, sure, but it's like Phantom Menace -- you can't really judge someone's acting ability when even Liam Neeson, Natalie Portman, and Samuel L. Jackson are bad.
(Yes, I know there's no one on the same tier as those three I mentioned in Funi's dub, but you know what I mean)

I'm pretty sure those 3, & every other actor in the prequels, didn't get ANY emotional direction, or were directed to act as wooden as possible. Considering George Lucas is a terrible director directing established actors & Sabat & Co were newbies, I don't know if you can easily compare them like that.

Alec Guinness gave a great performance as Obi-Wan Kenobi though.

[NitroEX]

If they had cast Lex Lang as Tenshinhan instead of Goku for the Bang Zoom dub, then it would have been awesome since Lex could have easily been the best Tien, at least to me.

Seems like a waste to me. He would just end up sounding close to Burgmeier's Tenshinhan.

That being said, I don't like the FUNI dub. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and gets everywhere.

This is brilliant

[Robo4900]

If they had cast Lex Lang as Tenshinhan instead of Goku for the Bang Zoom dub, then it would have been awesome since Lex could have easily been the best Tien, at least to me.

Seems like a waste to me. He would just end up sounding close to Burgmeier's Tenshinhan.

That being said, I don't like the FUNI dub. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and gets everywhere.

This is brilliant

Agreed on both counts, but...

I just realized I used the "mad" emote before. That was not intentional.
I meant for it to be more like but I guess the combination I used resulted in making me look like I was ticked off.
Kinda changes the tone my remark gave off. Sorry about that! Just gonna go sit in the corner and wonder how I missed that goof up until now...

No worries, friend. We all make silly mistakes, and that one was pretty minor. Your opinions are welcome here.

I'm not really fond of Burgmeier's Tenshinhan voice, but at least he doesn't make me cringe like Matt Smith did.

Eh, I thought Smith was fine. His delivery was a bit flat at times, but in the Saban era at least, he had some great moments.
This scene in particular always makes me howl with laughter. His line at 1:30, especially, just completely kills me every time.

I think, for me, while Smith could have some really flat moments, his portrayal was overall a lot more memorable, particularly for the much more insane moments, like the one I linked, which are just made so much more amazing by his super-serious guy delivery.

[8000 Saiyan]

Indeed. The Kai 1.0 carry-overs would likely all be able to be kept without recasting(Except for those who are unavailable, of course). And yeah, there aren't a ton of new characters; Gohan's classmates are minor characters, so they can probably get a couple of Calgary actors to voice the whole lot; then aside from some minor characters from the tournament and a few other one-offs, the only new characters I can think of are adult Gohan, Videl, Kaioshin, Kibito, Yamu, Spopovich, Babidi, Dabura, Boo... I think that's it.
So, assuming they can get Brad Swaile back, that's Gohan covered, Michael Dobson would probably be able to reprise Kaioshin, same for Brian Dobson and Scott McNeil as Boo, so that only leaves Videl, Kibito, Yamu, Spopovich, Babidi, and Dabura, and honestly I could imagine any/all of them going to Blue Water actors.

If Don Brown reprises Kibito, then he should use a different voice.

[Robo4900]

If Don Brown reprises Kibito, then he should use a different voice.

Yeah, I think so.

Probably not the Kaio/Butta type voice, either.
He's got some range, so I'm sure he could do something.

Still, if Brown is recast, I'm sure someone else could do a great job as Kibito. Perhaps one of the Dobsons.

[8000 Saiyan]

If Don Brown reprises Kibito, then he should use a different voice.

Yeah, I think so.

Probably not the Kaio/Butta type voice, either.
He's got some range, so I'm sure he could do something.

Still, if Brown is recast, I'm sure someone else could do a great job as Kibito. Perhaps one of the Dobsons.

Here's the voice that would be more fitting than the one he used:
http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv- ... ne/Balgus/

[8000 Saiyan]

Never realized how true that Lang would sound closer to Burgmeier, but still, Lang is a much more charismatic actor than Burgmeier is.

Tien needs to be voiced by someone with charisma.

What annoys me about Burgmeier's Tien is how irritated he sounds at times.

[Robo4900]

Never realized how true that Lang would sound closer to Burgmeier, but still, Lang is a much more charismatic actor than Burgmeier is.

Tien needs to be voiced by someone with charisma.

What annoys me about Burgmeier's Tien is how irritated he sounds at times.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Again, I'm sure Burgmeier is a fine actor, but I think he's either miscast in the role, or a little poorly-directed in the show...
Honestly, I think Funimation should have done what was done with Ocean's cast when Funimation did Kai; re-audition everyone, and be completely open to recasting absolutely anyone. There are a ton of voices that I think should have been recast, and while the actors behind them are a talented bunch, most of the Funimation castings were done out of convenience in 1999-2002 when they were trying to just get whoever was cheap. For Kai, they should have considered everyone, and been totally open to saying "Y'know, actually, perhaps Burgmeier wasn't the right choice after all."
Perhaps they could have recast Kaio and Piccolo. Schemmel and Sabat are good actors, and they do a great job as Goku and Vegeta, but I think they're miscast as Kaio and Piccolo, and a recasting of those parts could have done a world of good for Kai, and all the dubs that followed it. If the casting was handled like this, and all the recasts were as well-considered as Chris Ayres, the various Ginyu Force recasts, and yes, even Colleen Clinkenbeard(She's great as Gohan; she gives a unique take on Gohan, and acts it very well), then I think Kai's dub could have crossed over from being good to being great.

As for Tenshinhan, from what I've heard of Brendan Hunter's Tenshinhan, I think he'll do a good job in Ocean Kai, so I'm looking forward to hearing that; his performance in Blue Water's DB dub was a little rough around the edges, but I'm sure this time he'll round that off, and we'll have a really great take on the character to enjoy in Kai.

Here's the voice that would be more fitting than the one he used:
http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv- ... ne/Balgus/

Haha.
Brown doesn't have a ton of range in his voices, does he? He basically does King Kai/Pilaf at various pitches, or Shen Long/Kibito at various pitches.
Still, he's a good actor within that, and that's what makes his roles distinct...

But honestly, as much as he is a great actor, due to how similar his voices tend to be, I'm not sure he should be cast as Kibito. That voice you linked would probably come off too similar. Maybe he'd get away with it, but I'm not sure he would. In any case, it likely wouldn't be a case of "Can you try a different approach?", which could lead to a voice like the one you linked; it'd probably be more of a "We're going to re-audition you for this character you played a few years ago. If we don't think you sound right, we'll open up a casting call." So, maybe he'd decide to try a different approach while re-auditioning, maybe he'd do a slightly new spin on the old voice, and land the part anyway. Who knows.

In any case, I think recasting him as Kibito would be the way to go, if I'm honest.

As a side-note, this tweet from Brian Drummond says he hasn't worked with Don Brown in about 2-3 years. So, the timing does work out that Brown may have been in Kai in some capacity.
Massively grasping at straws here for any news, but I thought people may enjoy that tiny little snippet.

[8000 Saiyan]

Again, I'm sure Burgmeier is a fine actor, but I think he's either miscast in the role, or a little poorly-directed in the show...
Honestly, I think Funimation should have done what was done with Ocean's cast when Funimation did Kai; re-audition everyone, and be completely open to recasting absolutely anyone. There are a ton of voices that I think should have been recast, and while the actors behind them are a talented bunch, most of the Funimation castings were done out of convenience in 1999-2002 when they were trying to just get whoever was cheap. For Kai, they should have considered everyone, and been totally open to saying "Y'know, actually, perhaps Burgmeier wasn't the right choice after all."
Perhaps they could have recast Kaio and Piccolo. Schemmel and Sabat are good actors, and they do a great job as Goku and Vegeta, but I think they're miscast as Kaio and Piccolo, and a recasting of those parts could have done a world of good for Kai, and all the dubs that followed it. If the casting was handled like this, and all the recasts were as well-considered as Chris Ayres, the various Ginyu Force recasts, and yes, even Colleen Clinkenbeard(She's great as Gohan; she gives a unique take on Gohan, and acts it very well), then I think Kai's dub could have crossed over from being good to being great.

As for Tenshinhan, from what I've heard of Brendan Hunter's Tenshinhan, I think he'll do a good job in Ocean Kai, so I'm looking forward to hearing that; his performance in Blue Water's DB dub was a little rough around the edges, but I'm sure this time he'll round that off, and we'll have a really great take on the character to enjoy in Kai.

I'm sure that Funimation fans would have started riots if they had replaced Schemmel and Sabat and the majority of the cast. I can think of many names here on these forums that would have done that.

Honestly, Sabat should have kept only Piccolo, even if he lacks the demonic sound that Furukawa and McNeil have. His Vegeta in Kai was fine, but in Super, he went back to that gruff voice and his Yamcha is too surfer dude ish and too deep. Ted Cole and Toru Furuya sound more natural in the role.

As for Kibito, I can't think of anyone else for the part. Let Brown do a more natural voice for the character and I'm in.

[Robo4900]

I'm sure that Funimation fans would have started riots if they had replaced Schemmel and Sabat and the majority of the cast. I can think of many names here on these forums that would have done that.

Well, I'm not saying they should have recast everybody, just that they should have re-auditioned everyone, and not been afraid to recast the majority of the cast.
Schemmel and Sabat do a great job as Goku and Vegeta, but Sabat has too many roles(Kai fixed it up a little, but not enough), and I think there are a lot of miscast voices that still remain; the biggest one for me being Schemmel's Kaio(Perhaps take a cue from the Japanese side, and bring Doc Morgan in for that? I think that could be really cool, actually...).

Honestly, Sabat should have kept only Piccolo, even if he lacks the demonic sound that Furukawa and McNeil have. His Vegeta in Kai was fine, but in Super, he went back to that gruff voice and his Yamcha is too surfer dude ish and too deep. Ted Cole and Toru Furuya sound more natural in the role.

No, I think Sabat lacking the demonic tone is exactly why he should have been kicked off as Piccolo. He doesn't really become the zen guy that Sabat really excells at doing until the Boo arc, and even then, he doesn't quite nail the darker shades to him required for certain parts(Yeah, I know these are from Z. I couldn't find the clip in Kai. He probably does the scene a lot better in Kai, but the point is, I think another actor could get the darker shades a lot better, like McNeil does). Keep him as Vegeta; much as I will always prefer Drummond in that role, Sabat's take is very good, and I think the two both provide their own definitive takes on the character. Sabat's Piccolo, meanwhile, just sounds kinda generic. He's a good actor, so he's able to play some depth into it, but I get the feeling another VA could bring a lot more to the role.
Ultimately, Sabat's Piccolo is just a slightly lower Vegeta without the rasp, and his Yamcha is that, but higher, and with a surfer dude accent. Sabat just doesn't have the range of tone required to do three main characters in the series. He's a great actor, and he can certainly pull of a great Vegeta, and perhaps keeping him as Piccolo could be fine too, but put Yamcha in there too, and you're just going too far, especially given the number of other voices he does(Shen Long, Kami, Recoome(?), etc.).

I think they should have put someone like Bob Carter, Kyle Hebert, or even Sean Schemmel as Piccolo.

Actually, as a side-note, I wonder if they could have got David Kaye in to do Recoome... That could've been really awesome, if he was willing to do it.

As for Kibito, I can't think of anyone else for the part. Let Brown do a more natural voice for the character and I'm in.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MasenkoHA]

[quote="8000 Saiyan"]
I'm sure that Funimation fans would have started riots if they had replaced Schemmel and Sabat and the majority of the cast. I can think of many names here on these forums that would have done that.

Sabat and Schemmel were the majority of the cast

I think it says something the better voices from the Kai dub were the replacements. Schemmel's Goku in Kai is just up to passable levels.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I'm sure that Funimation fans would have started riots if they had replaced Schemmel and Sabat and the majority of the cast. I can think of many names here on these forums that would have done that.

Sabat and Schemmel were the majority of the cast

I think it says something the better voices from the Kai dub were the replacements. Schemmel's Goku in Kai is just up to passable levels.

Well, to each their own. I had my issues with some of the voices, but Schemmel's Goku wasn't one of them. I think he only gets better and understands the character more as time goes on. Well beyond passable, I thought it was great. But like I said, to each their own. *shrug*

[8000 Saiyan]

Shame that it took ten years for Schemmel to finally become a great Goku though. In fact, it's a shame that it took most of the cast ten years to finally grow in these roles, although some haven't improved at all.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Shame that it took ten years for Schemmel to finally become a great Goku though. In fact, it's a shame that it took most of the cast ten years to finally grow in these roles, although some haven't improved at all.

Well, see, here's the thing, I personally don't think it took ten years. There seems to be a common belief--and I'm not saying that you necessarily carry this belief, 8000 Saiyan, I'm just talking in a general sense here--that the dub cast "weren't good until Kai, and then suddenly they were." I respectfully dispute the "suddenly" part. It wasn't sudden, it was very gradual, and those who kept up with the dub cast could definitely hear it happening as time progressed.

I think a lot of sub fans were so disgusted by what they heard when the FUNimation cast debuted in "Season 3," that they just never bothered to check in with the dub much after that until Kai. Granted, how "good" an actor's performance is is entirely subjective, but I would argue that the dub cast in general reached the level of "great" while they were working on the video games. Even before that, their work on the later dubs of the movies started to get pretty good. The general rule of thumb with the FUNimation cast has always seemed to be that the later in time something was dubbed, the better the final product was likely to be.

[Robo4900]

Well, see, here's the thing, I personally don't think it took ten years. There seems to be a common belief--and I'm not saying that you necessarily carry this belief, 8000 Saiyan, I'm just talking in a general sense here--that the dub cast "weren't good until Kai, and then suddenly they were." I respectfully dispute the "suddenly" part. It wasn't sudden, it was very gradual, and those who kept up with the dub cast could definitely hear it happening as time progressed.

I think a lot of sub fans were so disgusted by what they heard when the FUNimation cast debuted in "Season 3," that they just never bothered to check in with the dub much after that until Kai. Granted, how "good" an actor's performance is is entirely subjective, but I would argue that the dub cast in general reached the level of "great" while they were working on the video games. Even before that, their work on the later dubs of the movies started to get pretty good. The general rule of thumb with the FUNimation cast has always seemed to be that the later in time something was dubbed, the better the final product was likely to be.

The thing is, I actually 100% agree with you that the cast got good working on the games after GT was done, but before Kai started. But, if you're just talking in terms of the shows and movies, then yes, they do suddenly get good in Kai.

The cast were mostly okay when they dubbed DB, but there were still a ton of stand-outs that just didn't work. Chris Sabat was thoroughly underwhelming as King Piccolo, Stephanie Nadolny and Tiffany Vollmer didn't act well in it, the guy they got to do #8 was entirely flat... Honestly, the acting overall was pretty underwhelming. No one was better than pretty decent, and that didn't improve, even within the couple of years it took them to get to GT.

Kai brought about some recasts(There should've been more, but they covered most of the big ones); most of the Ginyu Force, the narrator, young Gohan/Goku, Bulma, most notably Freeza. Add to that the fact a ton of the cast improved in the video game dubs from 2005-2010, and the fact the directing was better in Kai, and... Really, in terms of just the shows, yes, the Funi cast did suddenly get good in Kai. There was a progression, but that progression was in the games, so many wouldn't really see it in normal viewing.

[8000 Saiyan]

I'll admit that they improved as long they went through those years, but those improvements weren't exactly anything spectacular IMO.

[Robo4900]

I'll admit that they improved as long they went through those years, but those improvements weren't exactly anything spectacular IMO.

Compared to what they were in the "Season 3" days, I'd say it was pretty spectacular.

Chris Sabat did the nigh-impossible task of giving English-speaking fans a third definitive Vegeta(Ryo Horikawa and Brian Drummond being the other two, of course), and I'd say Schemmel has achieved similar with his Goku. Chris Ayres is the first dub Freeza we've seen who lives up to Rysei Nakao, and while there are still tons of problem castings, and I still maintain the acting is too understated, Kai is the first overall good Dragon Ball dub since Blue Water did GT in 2003.

[8000 Saiyan]

I'll admit that they improved as long they went through those years, but those improvements weren't exactly anything spectacular IMO.

Compared to what they were in the "Season 3" days, I'd say it was pretty spectacular.

Chris Sabat did the nigh-impossible task of giving English-speaking fans a third definitive Vegeta(Ryo Horikawa and Brian Drummond being the other two, of course), and I'd say Schemmel has achieved similar with his Goku. Chris Ayres is the first dub Freeza we've seen who lives up to Rysei Nakao, and while there are still tons of problem castings, and I still maintain the acting is too understated, Kai is the first overall good Dragon Ball dub since Blue Water did GT in 2003.

I wasn't actually talking about Kai. I was talking about the stuff they did before Kai, such as the redubs of Season 1-2 and the so-called great dub of the Buu Saga.

And I do agree that Kai's improvements are spectacular.

[Robo4900]

I wasn't actually talking about Kai. I was talking about the stuff they did before Kai, such as the redubs of Season 1-2 and the so-called great dub of the Buu Saga.

And I do agree that Kai's improvements are spectacular.

Ah, right.
Well, in that case, I do agree.

I think it's pretty clear that the cast had some massive improvements over the course of the video games; 2004-2010, right after basically everything had finished dubbing, the video games really kicked in, and in that time, the cast really started to get better. The dubs they did during that time(The Ultimate Uncut era redubbing), showed the cast improving by quite a lot, though the poor scripts, questionable direction, and inconsistency with previous performances(In 2006, they did the "Uncut" Z 68+ redubs, which I still think were a massive failure, mainly due to the inconsistency) mitigated a lot of the good done by this.

But yeah, unless you factor in the video games, the progression is pretty much: Z 68+ was crap, but got slightly less crap as it went on, DB was not bad, GT was super-crap, the movies were a mixed bag, Z 1-67 was not bad, then Kai was good.

Admittedly, taken just on the quality of the acting alone, GT was just a bit below average, but it was incredibly misdirected, and often rather miscast. So... it ends up a pretty big leap.