"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

The leaks have started.

Mind posting them because I'm not sure the leaks would be coming out this early.

They haven't started, it's just the official V-Jump cover

[Miracles]

Your feelings mean nothing in this case. There've been countless people working on Dragonball over the years that Toriyama has known and interacted with. Of all these people, he chose Toyotaro to be his successor. To deny Toyotaro's merit after Toriyama chose him over the myriad of other people involved in the franchise—well that's just silly.

The salt in this thread towards Toyotaro is delicious really. Some of it stems from Jealousy, maybe their fanfic artists didn't get chosen, bitterness from Hit fans, him getting PWNED and exposed recently; worry from members of team TOEI, chances are Toyo's TOP might be better than the anime's and that isn't saying much.

[BanterTheGreat]

I myself really enjoy Toyotaro's artwork and story writing. He started pretty poor but with the start of the Goku Black arc he IMO got far ahead of the anime.
I also find his art itself better than toriyama, but i am not so sure on his storyboarding.

[Omniboy]

He had many habits and quirks seen in many fanfiction authors (yes, I include myself in this too), especially the need to explain everything to the point that characters stopped being characters and become Mr. Explain. Which wouldn't be so bad if Toyo was good at it. I mean, if you're going to study a manga that does exploration while keeping the characters intact, I suggest Toyo study One Piece, Berserk, or FMA.

Toyo also runs afoul with the pitfall of trying to explain something, but end up making more of a mess like the whole problem I have with Healer Trunks.

What's an example of Toyotaro over-explaining to the detriment of the story?

What about healer Trunks is problematic?

I'm not sure about the over explaining part, although I'm guessing he means that at times Toyo can go into exposition for so long that it takes up more pages than needed, which is fair. I think I remember chapter 14 where there are multiple pages of dialogue explaining how time travel works, but this was also the same chapter that we meet Trunks again for the first time in a while, and if Toyo found better ways to simplify the exposition, more pages could have been spent showing Trunks, Mai, and their future world.

As for Trunk's healing, he became the Supreme Kai's apprentice, and somehow the Supreme Kai forgot to tell Trunks about this very important ability that can be of great help when facing Dabadi and Dabura. Not only that, but it could have possibly changed much of how the arc went. While Supreme Kai has been shown to be incompetent, I am not sure if he would be able to forget something important as that.

However I still like Trunks as healer despite the flaws of how of he came into knowledge about said powers. I just feel as though it could have been integrated into the story better.

[batistabus]

I think I remember chapter 14 where there are multiple pages of dialogue explaining how time travel works, but this was also the same chapter that we meet Trunks again for the first time in a while, and if Toyo found better ways to simplify the exposition, more pages could have been spent showing Trunks, Mai, and their future world.

As for Trunk's healing, he became the Supreme Kai's apprentice, and somehow the Supreme Kai forgot to tell Trunks about this very important ability that can be of great help when facing Dabadi and Dabura. Not only that, but it could have possibly changed much of how the arc went. While Supreme Kai has been shown to be incompetent, I am not sure if he would be able to forget something important as that.

You may have preferred time to be spent elsewhere, but this is something that was apparently in Toriyama's outline (since an alternative version is in the anime). It's got some gags, cute expressions, and it doesn't occur during ongoing action, so I don't see this as excessive.

I will admit that what you're talking about would have been tied up much neater if Gowasu had explained the powers of the apprentice and Shin had not known, but there are plenty of plausible explanations. It's possible that the Shin of Trunks' future wasn't aware that disciples were automatically granted healing abilities. Of course, he knew that Kibito had these abilities, but perhaps he thought they were unique to Kibito or exclusive to Core people in general. Kibito served the other Kaioshin of Universe 7 after all, and it's likely that Trunks was his first baptism. Our Shin could've found out about the healing through his merger with Kibito or from a lesson from the Elder Kaioshin. Alternatively, as Kibito was present at the battle against Dabura, it's possible that they thought it would be better for Trunks to focus exclusively on combat/training with the Z Sword (as he was by far their strongest fighter and healing heavily drains ki) and to rely on Kibito for healing (who was already much more experienced).

[TKA]

The salt in this thread towards Toyotaro is delicious really. Some of it stems from Jealousy, maybe their fanfic artists didn't get chosen, bitterness from Hit fans, him getting PWNED and exposed recently; worry from members of team TOEI, chances are Toyo's TOP might be better than the anime's and that isn't saying much.

Posts like this aren't necessary. That's just mean-spirited, even if you agree with me.

[Dragono]

I just feel like Tori went the lazy way with this and pick the guy who was quick but also was a fan of his work who knew it better than he did.

Your feelings mean nothing in this case. There've been countless people working on Dragonball over the years that Toriyama has known and interacted with. Of all these people, he chose Toyotaro to be his successor. To deny Toyotaro's merit after Toriyama chose him over the myriad of other people involved in the franchise—well that's just silly.

Not silly when you realize what actually goes into drawing a manga. You have to not just be able to draw but draw fast. Not to mention this is Toriyama were talking about here, this is not guy know for strict detail on his work, this is man known for taking the lazy way out when it shows itself.


You can't honestly believe that the sole reason Toriyama picked him was because he thought he was the best that could be picked, right?

[OLKv3]

I just feel like Tori went the lazy way with this and pick the guy who was quick but also was a fan of his work who knew it better than he did.

Your feelings mean nothing in this case. There've been countless people working on Dragonball over the years that Toriyama has known and interacted with. Of all these people, he chose Toyotaro to be his successor. To deny Toyotaro's merit after Toriyama chose him over the myriad of other people involved in the franchise—well that's just silly.

Not silly when you realize what actually goes into drawing a manga. You have to not just be able to draw but draw fast. Not to mention this is Toriyama were talking about here, this is not guy know for strict detail on his work, this is man known for taking the lazy way out when it shows itself.


You can't honestly believe that the sole reason Toriyama picked him was because he thought he was the best that could be picked, right?

I thought Shuiesha picked him, not Toriyama

[batistabus]

@OLKv3
He has been referred to as Toriyama's chosen successor a couple of times, the first being here. https://mobile.twitter.com/BandaiNamcoU ... 2445960192

I suppose this could be empty promo talk, but based on the specific wording and Toriyama's increased involvement in decision making these days (including picking the character designer for the new movie), I'd say it's safe to believe it.

[Bergamo]

Your feelings mean nothing in this case. There've been countless people working on Dragonball over the years that Toriyama has known and interacted with. Of all these people, he chose Toyotaro to be his successor. To deny Toyotaro's merit after Toriyama chose him over the myriad of other people involved in the franchise—well that's just silly.

The salt in this thread towards Toyotaro is delicious really. Some of it stems from Jealousy, maybe their fanfic artists didn't get chosen, bitterness from Hit fans, him getting PWNED and exposed recently; worry from members of team TOEI, chances are Toyo's TOP might be better than the anime's and that isn't saying much.

Honestly, as a Hit fan, I don't mind what happened last chapter. It was disappointing how he was handled in the u6 arc, but Hit being physically comparable to CSSB with a technique that can slow down Jiren was satisfying. Hit was always going to go out early, but making him debatably the second strongest in the Tournament of Power is great.

[TKA]

Not silly when you realize what actually goes into drawing a manga.

I don't need to know what goes into making a manga; I'm not the one who named Toyotaro Akira Toriyama's successor. Toriyama did so. I'm fairly confident Toriyama knows the manga-making process.

You have to not just be able to draw but draw fast.

Not to mention this is Toriyama were talking about here, this is not guy know for strict detail on his work

Nonsense.

Toriyama has some of the best artwork, period. If detail in art is what matters to you, then all the machines he draws have that in spades. Of course, there's FAR more to art than detail.

this is man known for taking the lazy way out when it shows itself.

And that "lazy" way out resulted in the biggest worldwide anime franchise ever in Dragonball.

The issue is Toriyama downplays his ability so much that people on the internet are tricked into thinking he isn't as great as he is. The man's a genius at manga, and is humble enough to not brag about it.

You can't honestly believe that the sole reason Toriyama picked him was because he thought he was the best that could be picked, right?

Obviously that's why. Like I've already said, there've been countless official DB mangas, movies, and animes out there, and all of them in some way have gone through Toriyama. None of their creators were good enough in Toriyama's eyes for him to consider them his pupil and successor. Toyotaro is. It's literally that simple and anything beyond that is speculation.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Your feelings mean nothing in this case. There've been countless people working on Dragonball over the years that Toriyama has known and interacted with. Of all these people, he chose Toyotaro to be his successor. To deny Toyotaro's merit after Toriyama chose him over the myriad of other people involved in the franchise—well that's just silly.

The salt in this thread towards Toyotaro is delicious really. Some of it stems from Jealousy, maybe their fanfic artists didn't get chosen, bitterness from Hit fans, him getting PWNED and exposed recently; worry from members of team TOEI, chances are Toyo's TOP might be better than the anime's and that isn't saying much.

Honestly, as a Hit fan, I don't mind what happened last chapter. It was disappointing how he was handled in the u6 arc, but Hit being physically comparable to CSSB with a technique that can slow down Jiren was satisfying. Hit was always going to go out early, but making him debatably the second strongest in the Tournament of Power is great.

Haa. At least till that point. If the manga has important key points that the anime had, then ssj2 kefla, SSB evolution vegeta, and hakaishin toppo would also be conciderably above hit.

[shadowfox87]

Haa. At least till that point. If the manga has important key points that the anime had, then ssj2 kefla, SSB evolution vegeta, and hakaishin toppo would also be conciderably above hit.

SSBE Vegeta is really just MSSB Vegeta from the manga. The anime gave Goku Kaioken, an exclusive ability to Goku instead of MSSB. Therefore to compensate, the anime had to create yet another transformation - SSBE to give to Vegeta. In the manga, the same scene will be two MSSBs fighting Jiren.

I also don't really care what anyone says, Toyotaro's doing a good job. Hit's portrayal in the manga is better than him getting embarassed in the anime by almost losing to Dyspo. His Time Lag is superior to Time Cage. The anime will always have more details, animation, color, etc. What people need to judge is the consistency of the story.

[CriticalThinker]

I'm assuming we'll be getting leaks soon so I'm going to predict that we will see more of the Jiren vs Goku fight next chapter with a dash of Vegeta vs Toppo/Dyspo. But considering how wrong my prediction was for chapter 35 I'm not so sure. Wouldn't mind though if the next chapter ended up focusing on Caulifla/Kale and Roshi.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Haa. At least till that point. If the manga has important key points that the anime had, then ssj2 kefla, SSB evolution vegeta, and hakaishin toppo would also be conciderably above hit.

SSBE Vegeta is really just MSSB Vegeta from the manga. The anime gave Goku Kaioken, an exclusive ability to Goku instead of MSSB. Therefore to compensate, the anime had to create yet another transformation - SSBE to give to Vegeta. In the manga, the same scene will be two MSSBs fighting Jiren.

I also don't really care what anyone says, Toyotaro's doing a good job. Hit's portrayal in the manga is better than him getting embarassed in the anime by almost losing to Dyspo. His Time Lag is superior to Time Cage. The anime will always have more details, animation, color, etc. What people need to judge is the consistency of the story.

I disagree, SSB Evolution is something more than CSSB. CSSB is just ssb at 100 power as stated many times in the manga. Toppo was able to catch a CSSB goku off guard, and if toppo is to get god of destruction status, they definitely need something more than MSSB.

But we can agree to disagree, cause I'm not changing my mind on this topic till i get proven wrong by the manga (thats if).

I agree that toyotaro is doing a great job with the manga. Lets hope he keeps going strong.

[shadowfox87]

I disagree, SSB Evolution is something more than CSSB. CSSB is just ssb at 100 power as stated many times in the manga. Toppo was able to catch a CSSB goku off guard, and if toppo is to get god of destruction status, they definitely need something more than MSSB.

But we can agree to disagree, cause I'm not changing my mind on this topic till i get proven wrong by the manga (thats if).

I agree that toyotaro is doing a great job with the manga. Lets hope he keeps going strong.

One scene in the manga has already shown in the latest chapter to be the anime counterpart:

Source: Chapter 35, Page 16


Source: Episode 109, 16:45-17:15

Basically, the scene in the anime where Goku is using SSB + Kaioken x20 was shown in the manga as MSSB Goku. I'm pretty sure in the subsequent chapters, we will see both MSSB Goku and Vegeta fighting Jiren, which will be the exact scene in the anime where SSBE Vegeta and SSB+Kaioken x20 Goku fights Jiren.

The manga didn't use Kaioken as a stacker which allowed Vegeta to compete with Goku and obtain the same transformation. In the anime, SSBE had to be created for Vegeta to have something that would be equal to Goku's Kaioken x 20. Additionally, there is nowhere in the manga that states MSSB = 100x SSB. If there, please show me. The manga rather states that SSB >= 10xSSG.

[TKA]

What people need to judge is the consistency of the story.

I was agreeing with you until this point.

People are free to judge things however they want. Maybe some people just like the "epic" feel of the anime and don't care about the story. That's fine; that's their prerogative. It isn't anyone's place to tell someone else how to enjoy a work.

I, myself, prefer consistency and a story that is internally logical, which are things the anime desperately lacked. However, I would never tell someone they should hate the anime too for those reasons. That might not've been your intention, but that's how it came off.

I disagree, SSB Evolution is something more than CSSB. CSSB is just ssb at 100 power as stated many times in the manga.

No. His point of comparison is narrative-based. Completed Super Saiyan Blue is essentially Goku and Vegeta's extra transformations from the anime. In the manga, this is their transformation. Same narrative roles.

Toppo was able to catch a CSSB goku off guard, and if toppo is to get god of destruction status, they definitely need something more than MSSB.

No. That's not how that works. "Letting your guard down" means you're not at your best. Goku got blindsided because he was told to end the fight and then cockily tried to take Toppo out with one hit. There's a panel which shows Toppo noticed this, and then he took advantage of the opening and knocked Goku out. Goku was CLEARLY stronger than him, but Goku let his guard down and lost.

What's great about this is it's been a long-running critique of him since Super started that he lets his guard down too much.

But we can agree to disagree, cause I'm not changing my mind on this topic till i get proven wrong by the manga (thats if).

Well you're on a forum. You can't tell people to not debate with you.

[Bergamo]

The salt in this thread towards Toyotaro is delicious really. Some of it stems from Jealousy, maybe their fanfic artists didn't get chosen, bitterness from Hit fans, him getting PWNED and exposed recently; worry from members of team TOEI, chances are Toyo's TOP might be better than the anime's and that isn't saying much.

Honestly, as a Hit fan, I don't mind what happened last chapter. It was disappointing how he was handled in the u6 arc, but Hit being physically comparable to CSSB with a technique that can slow down Jiren was satisfying. Hit was always going to go out early, but making him debatably the second strongest in the Tournament of Power is great.

Haa. At least till that point. If the manga has important key points that the anime had, then ssj2 kefla, SSB evolution vegeta, and hakaishin toppo would also be conciderably above hit.

That's what I meant. Of course he won't be above Ultra Instinct whenever that happens. What Hit got suits the role of his character. He's like Tien in the King Piccolo arc or Vegeta in the Frieza arc.

[shadowfox87]

I was agreeing with you until this point.

People are free to judge things however they want. Maybe some people just like the "epic" feel of the anime and don't care about the story. That's fine; that's their prerogative. It isn't anyone's place to tell someone else how to enjoy a work.

I, myself, prefer consistency and a story that is internally logical, which are things the anime desperately lacked. However, I would never tell someone they should hate the anime too for those reasons. That might not've been your intention, but that's how it came off.

I never meant to imply to "hate" the anime. I love both the anime and manga, however, I am stating that the manga has a more consistent storyline. Of course, people are free to judge in however they deem. I am simply stating my opinion and a "suggestion" that people "should" look at the consistency of the story rather than flashy effects.

[Bergamo]

I disagree, SSB Evolution is something more than CSSB. CSSB is just ssb at 100 power as stated many times in the manga. Toppo was able to catch a CSSB goku off guard, and if toppo is to get god of destruction status, they definitely need something more than MSSB.

But we can agree to disagree, cause I'm not changing my mind on this topic till i get proven wrong by the manga (thats if).

I agree that toyotaro is doing a great job with the manga. Lets hope he keeps going strong.

One scene in the manga has already shown in the latest chapter to be the anime counterpart:

Source: Chapter 35, Page 16


Source: Episode 109, 16:45-17:15

Basically, the scene in the anime where Goku is using SSB + Kaioken x20 was shown in the manga as MSSB Goku. I'm pretty sure in the subsequent chapters, we will see both MSSB Goku and Vegeta fighting Jiren, which will be the exact scene in the anime where SSBE Vegeta and SSB+Kaioken x20 Goku fights Jiren.

The manga didn't use Kaioken as a stacker which allowed Vegeta to compete with Goku and obtain the same transformation. In the anime, SSBE had to be created for Vegeta to have something that would be equal to Goku's Kaioken x 20. Additionally, there is nowhere in the manga that states MSSB = 100x SSB. If there, please show me. The manga rather states that SSB >= 10xSSG.

Your math is wrong. SSB <10*SSG.