"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

This is exactly why I love civil war among a fandom. It generates this kind of entertainment to me!

[TKA]

Wow, a throwaway promotional image that has no bearing on the actual content of the chapter is similar to a random Captain America page. Such big deal. Much worries. Wow.

If Nick Simmons didn't get sued for tracing over Kubo's work, this is fine. Especially since this is just a promo image and comic book artists reference/copy "iconic" poses for variant covers literally every month of every year.

This is a non-issue.

Someone should hook Toyotaro up with Lee Bermejo's art though. If you're gonna reference comic book artists, reference one of the best.

[ToshioWrites]

This is exactly why I love civil war among a fandom. It generates this kind of entertainment to me!

While Toriyama laughs his way to the bank

[Omniboy]

This is exactly why I love civil war among a fandom.

Which one of us is Captain America, and which one of us is Iron man?

Better yet which one of us is Goku posing as Captain America?

[prince212]

He just want a minute of glory , watching the comparison and judge yourself. Is that a trace ?
A lied said 1 million times doesn’t mean is truth
If you think so , that’s the worse trace ever and the transparent paper was moving all the time

I don't think a comic book artist that has drawn for DC and Marvel needs a "minute of glory".

You keep posting an unaligned image and have been proven wrong above. It absolutely is traced. Rotating the arm position and redrawing the legs doesn't mean the torso, head position and hand aren't traced.

I posted it two times , yes , because I can’t understand why all the world call that a trace . But I guess I’m wrong , I just say my opinion . And yes I think that if and artist claims that as a trace , he just want to be more known in the world in his glory day , because again I think that is not a trace . I understand if he claims that he copied his art or get inspired ( as an honor) , but not to trace
I’m not defending toyotaro because I don’t like what he did .

[Doctor.]

I don't see any trace either in this image. Guess we were all wrong.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Vegeta_Sama]

He just want a minute of glory , watching the comparison and judge yourself. Is that a trace ?
A lied said 1 million times doesn’t mean is truth
If you think so , that’s the worse trace ever and the transparent paper was moving all the time

I don't think a comic book artist that has drawn for DC and Marvel needs a "minute of glory".

You keep posting an unaligned image and have been proven wrong above. It absolutely is traced. Rotating the arm position and redrawing the legs doesn't mean the torso, head position and hand aren't traced.

I posted it two times , yes , because I can’t understand why all the world call that a trace . But I guess I’m wrong , I just say my opinion . And yes I think that if and artist claims that as a trace , he just want to be more known in the world in his glory day , because again I think that is not a trace . I understand if he claims that he copied his art or get inspired ( as an honor) , but not to trace
I’m not defending toyotaro because I don’t like what he did .

Did you just ignore the fact that the pic you posted is NOT LINED UP properly?

[Kenneth La Torre]

Seems like the people running kanzenshuu dont defend thia behavior either. Terribly dissapointed in toyotaro, when you know that he doesn't have a need to trace anything.

Prince212, you did not even line up the pictures carefully. Someone already did that, and it clearly shows tracing.

[KinguKurimuzon]

Wow, a throwaway promotional image that has no bearing on the actual content of the chapter is similar to a random Captain America page. Such big deal. Much worries. Wow.

If Nick Simmons didn't get sued for tracing over Kubo's work, this is fine. Especially since this is just a promo image and comic book artists reference/copy "iconic" poses for variant covers literally every month of every year.

This is a non-issue.

Someone should hook Toyotaro up with Lee Bermejo's art though. If you're gonna reference comic book artists, reference one of the best.

Are you seriously saying it's okay to trace because the image isn't from the comic itself? Tracing is tracing, and while I don't think Toyotaro should get sued over this, it's absolutely a terrible and lazy practice. Also, there's a pretty big difference between someone paying homage to the iconic cover of Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 and taking a pose from a random panel of a random Captain America comic.

I posted it two times , yes , because I can’t understand why all the world call that a trace . But I guess I’m wrong , I just say my opinion . And yes I think that if and artist claims that as a trace , he just want to be more known in the world in his glory day , because again I think that is not a trace . I understand if he claims that he copied his art or get inspired ( as an honor) , but not to trace
I’m not defending toyotaro because I don’t like what he did .

Because apparently you can't read, once again, I post the properly aligned image.

[prince212]

Seems like the people running kanzenshuu dont defend thia behavior either. Terribly dissapointed in toyotaro, when you know that he doesn't have a need to trace anything.

Prince212, you did not even line up the pictures carefully. Someone already did that, and it clearly shows tracing.

Show me please

[prince212]

I don't think a comic book artist that has drawn for DC and Marvel needs a "minute of glory".

You keep posting an unaligned image and have been proven wrong above. It absolutely is traced. Rotating the arm position and redrawing the legs doesn't mean the torso, head position and hand aren't traced.

I posted it two times , yes , because I can’t understand why all the world call that a trace . But I guess I’m wrong , I just say my opinion . And yes I think that if and artist claims that as a trace , he just want to be more known in the world in his glory day , because again I think that is not a trace . I understand if he claims that he copied his art or get inspired ( as an honor) , but not to trace
I’m not defending toyotaro because I don’t like what he did .

Did you just ignore the fact that the pic you posted is NOT LINED UP properly?

Show me a good one lined up property, not just the upper part

[batistabus]

After reading a bit more into it, it seems to be blatant tracing. Not happy about it, honestly. Still, it's not the end of the world, and I don't think much will come of it. Hopefully he gets a slap on the wrist and learns from it.

That being said, what he did was nowhere near the level of Yamamoto, who pladurized songs for decades. And let's not be so hasty that we forget the Paradise Papers...

[MyNiggaGoku]

That's enough. I am gonna trace this 'traced' Goku and become the new public enemy of the DB fandom. Sheesh.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I posted it two times , yes , because I can’t understand why all the world call that a trace . But I guess I’m wrong , I just say my opinion . And yes I think that if and artist claims that as a trace , he just want to be more known in the world in his glory day , because again I think that is not a trace . I understand if he claims that he copied his art or get inspired ( as an honor) , but not to trace
I’m not defending toyotaro because I don’t like what he did .

Did you just ignore the fact that the pic you posted is NOT LINED UP properly?

Show me a good one lined up property, not just the upper part

People have. Look at it. A couple posts up, before my post

[prince212]

Wow, a throwaway promotional image that has no bearing on the actual content of the chapter is similar to a random Captain America page. Such big deal. Much worries. Wow.

If Nick Simmons didn't get sued for tracing over Kubo's work, this is fine. Especially since this is just a promo image and comic book artists reference/copy "iconic" poses for variant covers literally every month of every year.

This is a non-issue.

Someone should hook Toyotaro up with Lee Bermejo's art though. If you're gonna reference comic book artists, reference one of the best.

Are you seriously saying it's okay to trace because the image isn't from the comic itself? Tracing is tracing, and while I don't think Toyotaro should get sued over this, it's absolutely a terrible and lazy practice. Also, there's a pretty big difference between someone paying homage to the iconic cover of Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 and taking a pose from a random panel of a random Captain America comic.

I posted it two times , yes , because I can’t understand why all the world call that a trace . But I guess I’m wrong , I just say my opinion . And yes I think that if and artist claims that as a trace , he just want to be more known in the world in his glory day , because again I think that is not a trace . I understand if he claims that he copied his art or get inspired ( as an honor) , but not to trace
I’m not defending toyotaro because I don’t like what he did .

Because apparently you can't read, once again, I post the properly aligned image.

I can’t see the trace in that one , that’s why I I’m saying what I’m saying , call me whatever , try to make fun of me if that makes you happy

[Zamasu55]

So? It isn’t like Manga Jiren has more.

As for now.

Still doesn’t negate my point, especially your claim ‘only U7 did anything in the anime’. What’s funny is that Jiren is more active that Anime Jiren and he only eliminated one person.

What did U2, U4, U9, U10 and U11 accomplish in the anime exactly?
Do you realize the almighty Hakaishin Toppo was a complete joke and he achieved less than Basil?

[TKA]

Are you seriously saying it's okay to trace because the image isn't from the comic itself?

That isn't at all what I said lol.

I said this is a non-issue because of the aforementioned details. This is irrelevant and will be forgotten since these promo covers are all disposable garbage featuring some of the worst art in the franchise. This is only a story right now because it's funny.

I cannot stress enough how little I care about this. If this was in the chapter, something which will last and which does matter, then I would take umbrage with it.

Since this is a disposable promo cover with fucking Yuya of all people, as of now I simply couldn't care less.

Also, there's a pretty big difference between someone paying homage to the iconic cover of Crisis on Infinite Earths #7

Clearly you don't read enough comics. It's pretty widespread. Some even do what I consider indefensible by including these traced things in the actual comic and not as just a variant cover.

But I digress. I'm done with this non-issue. Something substantial will come along soon enough.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Whats dissapointing is that toyotaro had no need to trace anything for the cover of v jump. He is capable of drawing decently without tracing.

[ToshioWrites]

After reading a bit more into it, it seems to be blatant tracing. Not happy about it, honestly. Still, it's not the end of the world, and I don't think much will come of it. Hopefully he gets a slap on the wrist and learns from it.

That being said, what he did was nowhere near the level of Yamamoto, who pladurized songs for decades. And let's not be so hasty that we forget the Paradise Papers...

Nah yo Toyotaro should be beheaded for tracing , who cares if Toriyama commits tax fraud because “Muh childhood” , he probably even peeps on his daughter in the bath but who cares “Muh dragonball”

[SuperDragoon]

it REALLY does sound like you just have favoritism towards it

I fundamentally disagree with the idea a large tournament CANT give focus to moments or that characters "dont deserve" the time. Both points are arbitrary limitations to limit screentime to who the viewer decides is important.

I'm sure some would argue the U6 Saiyans dont deserve screentime and that they should have gotten eliminated over Hit.

The moments and characters you criticize are exactly why I favor the DBS anime over the manga. The manga feels soulless to me. I'm not enjoying it anywhere near as much as I did with the anime. I certainly dont think it's just because I dont understand the manga.

Now where did you get that idea? I do have favoritism towards it, because I feel like it has constantly proven to be a much better sequel to Dragon Ball.

I'm sorry, but I think you are missing the point. Yes, characters can be developed in a large tournament, and yes, who "deserves" page time is arbitrary, but it's a balancing act that is up to the author. The anime fails at developing characters in a satisfying way, and it still comes at the expense of the battle royale setting. Just because characters are jumping around on screen for 24+ minutes, that doesn't mean they're getting satisfying character development. They settled on a middle-ground that doesn't satisfy either goal. Toyotaro develops fun smaller encounters while still taking the time to develop the more complex narrative threads.

Again, the "deserve" is up to the author. By eliminating Hit quickly and early, that puts more emphasis on the Saiyans do make up for losing Universe 6's strongest fighter. When Toriyama created the outline, some characters and plot points were fleshed out more robustly than others. Toei's padding doesn't work to the benefit of the story Toriyama is trying to tell...it just keeps Super on air for a little bit longer.

You're free to enjoy whatever you like, but where exactly do you find the "soul" to be lacking? I'd say having the right soul is what so clearly puts the manga over the anime. Toei's version is so blatantly riddled with poor planning, needless padding, and product placement. More subtle things aside, that's where I feel like it's soul is most lacking.

Dude...no. How did you miss my point so badly? Just going to respond to every point.

1. I heavily disagree with the manga being the "true" successor to Dragon Ball.

2. Heavily disagreed on your first point. The "battle royale" setting most certainly does not need more focus than with giving characters moments. Without doing so, the manga becomes a rushjob to eliminate characters as fast as possible, with no effort to make things interesting like the anime did. There's a reason the anime versions of most characters and fights are seen as the de facto version over the manga.

3. Toriyama's outline is just that. An outline to be added to. Toei added in extra moments and scenes that fleshed out the other universes and their residents. The manga has no equivalent. It seems needlessly rushed.

4. As my above point, I legitsmently do not see any soul put into the manga. Chapters feel half hearted and weak. Little to nothing improved over the anime. Definetly not as good as either the original manga over its anime counterpart.

5. I see no "padding" or "product placement" in the anime. I see added depth, interesting dialogue, new encounters, and even world building almost nonexistant in the manga. For the crap filler gets I feel Super's filler adds more to its arcs and gives off more heart. I get nothing like that from the manga and I dont get how you do.