Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 15; Still Unreleased

[sangofe]

Shit, we're at 291 pages! And now let's be quiet and WAIT! Don't send any emails to any in the buisnesses anymore!

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Okay - I personally am revoking the MVP status others bestowed upon me. Marni got in touch:

"Thank you Sam.
I know you had good intentions. But, these types of negotiations take time. There is a deliberate strategy behind every discussion including who we speak to, when we speak to them and what is said. Unfortunately, involving Lisa will likely only muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate the conversation.

Please Sam, don’t do anything like this again in the future. Ok? I assure you and the other fans, my team is on top of this.

Thank you
Marni"


I responded:


"Marni,

Thank you so much for your reply. Again, I can only apologise! I'm kicking myself. I never dreamed Lisa would get in touch with me at all. Rest assured, this is the last time I do anything like this and I'll let it be known to other fans. I hope Lisa will understand the flow of things. I wish you the best of luck and please know how much we appreciate your work and your dedication. You are truly awesome!

Apologies,
Sam Love"

Guys. I am so sorry. I don't think my actions have stopped anything from happening, but you know they'll be careful to not insult Lisa by trying to proceed the way they want to

Honestly man, I think you made the most reasonable choice you could given how things panned out. None of us could have foreseen what Lisa revealed in the email, and at the very least we had a chance now to voice our concerns about Marni being swayed to buy the Funi dub.

Thankfully, unlike what happened with Kix Lisa's email read more like "Are you sure this is what you want" than "There is two dubs, but you can only air the US version". Since there was no ultimatum and Marni said her team is on top of things I will trust she has been well informed by all of us to make the right decision and go for the Ocean dub.

I'm also very grateful Marni gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't think we were just spamming her with emails. She probably doesn't want this deal sabatoged, hence her fear about muddying the waters and unnecessarily complicating negotiations. She's still awesome for always giving us reassurance and taking our advice on board.

I am nervous about what will happen next, but we've done what we could so guess we just need to wait and remain hopeful everything will work out.

[sangofe]

Okay - I personally am revoking the MVP status others bestowed upon me. Marni got in touch:

"Thank you Sam.
I know you had good intentions. But, these types of negotiations take time. There is a deliberate strategy behind every discussion including who we speak to, when we speak to them and what is said. Unfortunately, involving Lisa will likely only muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate the conversation.

Please Sam, don’t do anything like this again in the future. Ok? I assure you and the other fans, my team is on top of this.

Thank you
Marni"


I responded:


"Marni,

Thank you so much for your reply. Again, I can only apologise! I'm kicking myself. I never dreamed Lisa would get in touch with me at all. Rest assured, this is the last time I do anything like this and I'll let it be known to other fans. I hope Lisa will understand the flow of things. I wish you the best of luck and please know how much we appreciate your work and your dedication. You are truly awesome!

Apologies,
Sam Love"

Guys. I am so sorry. I don't think my actions have stopped anything from happening, but you know they'll be careful to not insult Lisa by trying to proceed the way they want to

Honestly man, I think you made the most reasonable choice you could given how things panned out. None of us could have foreseen what Lisa revealed in the email, and at the very least we had a chance now to voice our concerns about Marni being swayed to buy the Funi dub.

Thankfully, unlike what happened with Kix Lisa's email read more like "Are you sure this is what you want" than "There is two dubs, but you can only air the US version". Since there was no ultimatum and Marni said her team is on top of things I will trust she has been well informed by all of us to make the right decision and go for the Ocean dub.

I'm also very grateful Marni gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't think we were just spamming her with emails. She probably doesn't want this deal sabatoged, hence her fear about muddying the waters and unnecessarily complicating negotiations. She's still awesome for always giving us reassurance and taking our advice on board.

I am nervous about what will happen next, but we've done what we could so guess we just need to wait and remain hopeful everything will work out.

Why are you nervous? It will go great and the ocean version will be aired on Wow.

[Arian]

I am nervous about what will happen next, but we've done what we could so guess we just need to wait and remain hopeful everything will work out.

Why are you nervous? It will go great and the ocean version will be aired on Wow.

I gotta agree with sangofe here. It may be a rather complex deal but it's far from rocket science. I think the storm has passed and we have a bright, sunny future ahead.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Okay - I personally am revoking the MVP status others bestowed upon me. Marni got in touch:

"Thank you Sam.
I know you had good intentions. But, these types of negotiations take time. There is a deliberate strategy behind every discussion including who we speak to, when we speak to them and what is said. Unfortunately, involving Lisa will likely only muddy the waters and unnecessarily complicate the conversation.

Please Sam, don’t do anything like this again in the future. Ok? I assure you and the other fans, my team is on top of this.

Thank you
Marni"


I responded:


"Marni,

Thank you so much for your reply. Again, I can only apologise! I'm kicking myself. I never dreamed Lisa would get in touch with me at all. Rest assured, this is the last time I do anything like this and I'll let it be known to other fans. I hope Lisa will understand the flow of things. I wish you the best of luck and please know how much we appreciate your work and your dedication. You are truly awesome!

Apologies,
Sam Love"

Guys. I am so sorry. I don't think my actions have stopped anything from happening, but you know they'll be careful to not insult Lisa by trying to proceed the way they want to

Honestly man, I think you made the most reasonable choice you could given how things panned out. None of us could have foreseen what Lisa revealed in the email, and at the very least we had a chance now to voice our concerns about Marni being swayed to buy the Funi dub.

Thankfully, unlike what happened with Kix Lisa's email read more like "Are you sure this is what you want" than "There is two dubs, but you can only air the US version". Since there was no ultimatum and Marni said her team is on top of things I will trust she has been well informed by all of us to make the right decision and go for the Ocean dub.

I'm also very grateful Marni gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't think we were just spamming her with emails. She probably doesn't want this deal sabatoged, hence her fear about muddying the waters and unnecessarily complicating negotiations. She's still awesome for always giving us reassurance and taking our advice on board.

I am nervous about what will happen next, but we've done what we could so guess we just need to wait and remain hopeful everything will work out.

Why are you nervous? It will go great and the ocean version will be aired on Wow.

I'll reiterate what TheBlackPaladin said earlier as it is relevant here, but showbiz is unpredictable, things can and have fell apart at the last minute and until the product (in this case Ocean Kai) is released nothing is a guarantee.

I'm not saying this to be negative. I will say at this stage this dub is closer to being released than ever before, but it is still just a chance, its not a certainty. I think there is a good chance the Ocean dub will air on Wow, a very good chance even, but a very good chance is still a chance.

At the end of the day SX10 is no longer being told whats going on. Maybe Lisa was in the wrong to tell him to begin with, but with us all now in the dark we don't know if she will pressure Marni into buying the Funi dub. I hope she won't, and I don't think that will be the case but its not impossible.

As I say though, I think there is a chance, a very good chance this dub will air, but after all these years I don't want to build myself up only to be disappointed again, because I will be damn disappointed if it doesn't work out. On the contrary, if it airs, well then big celebrations will be on the cards for everyone here for sure, lets just wait and keep our fingers crossed.

[Arian]

I'll reiterate what TheBlackPaladin said earlier as it is relevant here, but showbiz is unpredictable, things can and have fell apart at the last minute and until the product (in this case Ocean Kai) is released nothing is a guarantee.

I'm not saying this to be negative. I will say at this stage this dub is closer to being released than ever before, but it is still just a chance, its not a certainty. I think there is a good chance the Ocean dub will air on Wow, a very good chance even, but a very good chance is still a chance.

At the end of the day SX10 is no longer being told whats going on. Maybe Lisa was in the wrong to tell him to begin with, but with us all now in the dark we don't know if she will pressure Marni into buying the Funi dub. I hope she won't, and I don't think that will be the case but its not impossible.

As I say though, I think there is a chance, a very good chance this dub will air, but after all these years I don't want to build myself up only to be disappointed again, because I will be damn disappointed if it doesn't work out. On the contrary, if it airs, well then big celebrations will be on the cards for everyone here for sure, lets just wait and keep our fingers crossed.

We can check in with Marni every once in a while. We just have to not do it too much nor interfere with her business. Nowhere in Sam's email did she say, "Don't write me anymore." Or anything of that nature so I think we will get updates when there are updates to be shared.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I disagree. Marni already told us enough. We shouldnt jeopardize the whole project just for that.

[SX10]

Yeah, I flew a little too close to the sun already, let's be careful not to get burned guys. I can't in good conscience contact her again for updates etc.

I'm still 90% certian it will happen. It's true that until it is here, there's no 100% guarantee. But Marni and her team sound ready for the challenge. I don't think they will be swayed to air Funi's dub at all. Sadly all we can do is wait.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I was JUST ABOUT to use that legend! The one about Icarus and the whole thing. Thank goodness I didnt have to.

[sangofe]

I was JUST ABOUT to use that legend! The one about Icarus and the whole thing. Thank goodness I didnt have to.

Now you have to tell me about it :p

[Robo4900]

It's a shame that it'll be an edited dub, though. Brian Drummond wanted to do an uncut dub IIRC.

Well we don't know to what extent it's been toned down. We should be able to sync the audio up to the blurays. Hopefully "censored" just means no swearing -- I'd really like if words like "kill" and "dead" are left in.

I imagine it's no swearing, no blood and whatever else they limited for TV. As great as it would be, swearing isn't exactly what I think of when I think Dragon Ball so it doesn't bother me too much. The lack of blood gets me though syncing to HD footage should be easy (but time consuming).

When things go quiet I get anxious, especially knowing these communications are going on!

Worth noting: Kirbopher said that the producers of the dub were considering doing both a cut and an uncut version. We have no idea if they did that, but chances are even if that's the way they went, this airing would be the cut version.
As for how the cuts will be handled, visuals will be exactly what we got on NickToons, dialogue will be no swearing(Which I think would be true in the uncut version too tbh. If they have an uncut version, I think the furthest it would go is "Hell". Maybe a "Damn" or a "Crap" here or there, but possibly not even that. Take a look at the Pioneer dub, that's probably the level to expect if there's an uncut version), but I would say there'll be no "Next dimension" or other such things, it'll be more along the lines of "Don't say 'Kill', say 'Destroy'", and "Don't say 'Dead', say 'Gone'". Assuming they're not allowed to say "Hell", they'll probably do what Blue Water did and just say "Hades", "Heaven" will probably be "Other world", etc.

What I'm saying is, Ocean aren't total morons with limited editing ability and a poor understanding of the source material like Funi were in the '90s/'00s, the censorship won't be clunky "you sure sent them to the next dimension, vegeta" type stuff, it'll be more rephrasing things to use "Safer" language like the famous Gohan like to Super Boo being "Fight you? No, I'm going to destroy you." Granted, doesn't roll off the tongue as well as the uncut line("Fight you? No, I'm going to kill you."), but if you aren't familiar with the uncut line, and the actor delivers it well enough(Which will be the case, this is Ocean we're talking about -- it was also true for the case I'm referring to here too), you won't bat an eye; it'll just work. Hell > Hades works(Assuming that's how they're doing that, which is a safe bet), and honestly I quite like that, since it gives the underworld a much less common term that stands out more, it's not better, I just really like the ring to it; kill > destroy is common in western cartoons and no one ever minds it; dead > gone is natural speech and a common metaphor for those uncomfortable actually saying "Dead"... Aside from this, there's not really anything that would need censoring in the dialogue... And the handling of these kinds of changes will certainly be a lot better than the often rather awkward ways Funi handled it for their edited Kai dub, since Ocean's dub is probably edited-only, unlike Funi's which is uncut-focused, with edited being more of an afterthought than anything else...

Again, the video will be the same as the NickToons master, but I think the way that was done was actually quite good; the way the blood was painted out or changed in colour to be something else(Spit from the mouth, dirt or grit on the face, etc.) was pretty amazingly-done... In general, the censorship was just really well-handled, and very unintrusive. The only stuff that I can see people objecting to is the cuts, which are only rarely more than minor stuff(And I mean really minor. They use clever cutting around to make the more gory shots either be replaced with other shots, such as the reaction shot of King Cold being blasted and spitting out blood being replaced with a different reaction shot of him looking horrified, putting flash frames over impact shots or cutting a few frames to make a flash frame that was in the uncut version appear sooner and cover up the impact, or removing tiny bits when those aren't possible, such as when Trunks is explaining the future to Goku, the shots of each character disintegrating and falling apart is shortened so as to not show them dismembering and disintegrating)...

The only cut I'm aware of that's actually of any consequence is when Roshi engages in his typical antics in episode 1 when Bulma gives him the manju beans. I imagine more cuts like this are probably present throughout, and I have no love lost over that. You're already skipping over a lot of original anime material in Kai to enhance the pace, so skipping over uncomfortable Roshi antics is something I'm utterly fine with.

I'm just really curious about a lot of stuff. Ocean dubs have tended to be incredibly faithful to the Japanese in the past decade and a half or so (Death Note is a prime example). With Drummond using the long-U pronunciation of "Goku" like in Japanese at cons recently, it has me excited. If I hear them say stuff like "Kuririn", "Tenshinhan", "Kame Sen'nin", "Kinto'un", etc., then I'm gonna be incredibly ecstatic. The name I'm most hoping to be kept is Kaiou instead of King Kai. This could be a much more faithful adaptation than Funimation's Kai dub, which is so exciting.

I really doubt we'll be hearing "Kurinin", "Tenshinhan", "Kaiou" or "Kinto'un". Maybe "Goku" with a long U, and "Kame Sen'nin" but I wouldn't count on either.

I'd be hoping for Kulilin like Toriyama writes on his hat, but otherwise, I agree. We did have Gokuh pronounced correctly by one character back in the 90s (God). It's be nice if they made it a consistently correct pronunciation. I think it's possible nowadays. Like you said, look at Death Note. We're far from the days of Inuyasha, I think (and hope), where every actor had their own unguided pronunciation of each name in the show. It was a mess.

You know, I'd like to assume they kept 'Kaioh' (or Kaio) as-is, since the attack he teaches Gokuh is calld the "Kaio-ken" in the English dub. And "Tenshinhan" is barely different from "Tien Shinhan", so I doubt the non-hardcore fans would even notice if they fixt his name. Same with "Shenlong" being close enuf to "Shenron". The real pipe-dream would be for them to keep the names of the Dragon Balls in Chinese, keep "God" as "God", and most of all, to keep "Son Gokuh" and "Son Gokuh"; and I don't mean just a single name-drop during the Super Saiyan transformation scene. I'd like to hear Piccolo and Bulma call him "Son" for the first time in an English dub.

Why does Funimation's dub have to be the basis for a dub that's trying to be closer to the source material? In fact, why does Funimation's dub have to be the basis for anything other than the Funimation dub? Cuz at that point, why even make an alternate dub if what people want is the Funimation dub? I know the DBZ dub in Canada was using Funmation's scripts, but they didn't for DB or DBGT.

I think, just like with the casting, the base will be the previous Ocean dubs, but there will be no hesitation in changing things that could be better.
We know for a fact that they'll be calling the Tenkaichi Budokai(Or in this case, Budoukai) its correct, directly-romanised name:

(Bigger version of right-hand image)

I think we can be reasonably sure we'll see some other corrections like either the blue fellow being renamed to "Kaio", or his technique being renamed to "King Kai Fist" or somesuch(King Kai is a valid name for him, but if you're going to do that, you do kind of have to translate the attack name too, otherwise they don't tie up; that's always been the issue -- aside from Funi's enforced incorrect pronunciations in their in-house dubs and the Saban dub -- of Kaio/King Kai and Kaioken).
Having the full, correct "Son Goku" name is something we can expect to see, I'd say, especially given Blue Water previously threw it around fairly casually at one point, albeit pronounced wrong. Though given how stringent they seem to be about pronunciation now("Nar-mek", Drummond at conventions saying "Go-ku" with that emphasis...), I think we can expect them to do it properly this time.

As far as the actual translations go, unlike the AB Groupe days, there's no reason for them to have used Funi's scripts, so they'll have produced their own scripts, probably along a similar line to the Pioneer movies and Blue Water GT dubs. Only thing they might take from Funimation(Or vice versa) would be episode titles, since they shared a video master as far as the edited TV versions are concerned, though more likely they prepared the edited video masters with Funi's titles for Funi's use, then swapped in their titles whenever their own scripts were done.

I disagree. Marni already told us enough. We shouldnt jeopardize the whole project just for that.

Yes, this very much!!

SX10 made a bad call, and this has taught us a lesson. That lesson is "Shut up and sit down." We've waited 8 years, another few months won't kill us. So let's just wait. Shulman and her team are working on this, let's just cool it and wait.

[Super Sayian Prime]

At this stage, I think our contribution is over. We've done everything we can do. Toei knows. Wow knows. When I asked you guys to send comments Toei's way, I never expected them to reply thinking we were actually involved.

I'd leave Marni (and Toei) alone. Maybe have 1 person ask her what's up if Kai is MIA after the channel's launch. Otherwise, we're just pestering her.

[linkdude20002001]

I think, just like with the casting, the base will be the previous Ocean dubs, but there will be no hesitation in changing things that could be better.
We know for a fact that they'll be calling the Tenkaichi Budokai(Or in this case, Budoukai) its correct, directly-romanised name:

[Picture]

I think we can be reasonably sure we'll see some other corrections like either the blue fellow being renamed to "Kaio", or his technique being renamed to "King Kai Fist" or somesuch(King Kai is a valid name for him, but if you're going to do that, you do kind of have to translate the attack name too, otherwise they don't tie up; that's always been the issue -- aside from Funi's enforced incorrect pronunciations in their in-house dubs and the Saban dub -- of Kaio/King Kai and Kaioken).
Having the full, correct "Son Goku" name is something we can expect to see, I'd say, especially given Blue Water previously threw it around fairly casually at one point, albeit pronounced wrong. Though given how stringent they seem to be about pronunciation now("Nar-mek", Drummond at conventions saying "Go-ku" with that emphasis...), I think we can expect them to do it properly this time.

As far as the actual translations go, unlike the AB Groupe days, there's no reason for them to have used Funi's scripts, so they'll have produced their own scripts, probably along a similar line to the Pioneer movies and Blue Water GT dubs. Only thing they might take from Funimation(Or vice versa) would be episode titles, since they shared a video master as far as the edited TV versions are concerned, though more likely they prepared the edited video masters with Funi's titles for Funi's use, then swapped in their titles whenever their own scripts were done.

We also know that they weren't adverse to getting a different actor if they felt that the previous one wasn't portraying the character correctly. As for "King Kai", I don't find that to be an acceptable titel for him. That's like translating only half of a sentence. It should be either "Kaioh" and "Kaioh-ken", or "King of Worlds" and "King of Worlds Technique". Or "Lord" instead of "King". I'm tired of him being "a guy named Kai who happens to be a king of...some-thing". Oh, yeah, I forgot about the attempted use of "Son" in the Blue Water dubs. Yeah, I think they can probably get it's pronunciation rite this time, so it's more a matter of if they use it rite. I hope there is an uncut dub. If this does well on TV, maybe a company will want to sell it!

[Robo4900]

We also know that they weren't adverse to getting a different actor if they felt that the previous one wasn't portraying the character correctly. As for "King Kai", I don't find that to be an acceptable titel for him. That's like translating only half of a sentence. It should be either "Kaioh" and "Kaioh-ken", or "King of Worlds" and "King of Worlds Technique". Or "Lord" instead of "King". I'm tired of him being "a guy named Kai who happens to be a king of...some-thing". Oh, yeah, I forgot about the attempted use of "Son" in the Blue Water dubs. Yeah, I think they can probably get it's pronunciation rite this time, so it's more a matter of if they use it rite. I hope there is an uncut dub. If this does well on TV, maybe a company will want to sell it!

Yeah, fair enough.

I do hope there is an uncut version, but if there is, we likely wouldn't know until quite a while after it's aired. One of us would probably have to ask someone like Scott McNeil or Brian Drummond whether they remember recording alternate lines for cut and uncut dubs.

[MistaL]

I do hope there is an uncut version, but if there is, we likely wouldn't know until quite a while after it's aired. One of us would probably have to ask someone like Scott McNeil or Brian Drummond whether they remember recording alternate lines for cut and uncut dubs.

I just tweeted at Lee Tockar asking about this, since he seems to be the most forthcoming about Ocean Kai and the easiest to get a hold of.

[SX10]

That reminds me, I've got a Monday ticket to Digi-Con and the special meet and greet ticket for both Brian Drummond & Peter Kelamis. So if no answer comes back from Lee Tockar, I could ask Brian this in person.

Any questions you guys have that you haven't heard come up yet, or you think he CAN answer, let me know.

I am definitely keeping it it centered on Kai, and mainly I just want to get to know the man as the serious actor he is. I wanna know about his approach, any conscious changes he made to the character and his experience working with directors in the booth and all that awesome stuff.

[8000 Saiyan]

Shame that Scott won't be there, because there's something I was wondering about his Piccolo performance.

[SX10]

Shame that Scott won't be there, because there's something I was wondering about his Piccolo performance.

Scott being there would have made things infinitly better! God that would be amazing.

What are you wondering about his performance?

[MistaL]

I'd like to know if Japanese attack names were used, and whether they went with "Kaiou" or "King Kai" and "Tien" or "Tenshinhan" and whatnot. We know they went with "Tenkaichi Budoukai", so I really wonder about the other stuff.

[8000 Saiyan]

Shame that Scott won't be there, because there's something I was wondering about his Piccolo performance.

Scott being there would have made things infinitly better! God that would be amazing.

What are you wondering about his performance?

Well, considering that many people complain about him sound too demonic when he's a "good guy", I wonder if he toned down the demonic part of Piccolo in the Android and Cell sagas of Kai.