Is piccolo also SSG/SSB tier ? He defeated a SSJ2 gohan in episode 89. The same gohan who had the upper hand while being SSJ1 to a SSJ1 Goku(who has a supposedly a Super vegito base).PFM18 wrote:Goku had still fought quite the list of characters that were stronger than Majin Buu so him being excited about fighting somebody who is Buu level just doesn't make sense. At the end of the day EoZ considers 10 years of peace and we had several threats to the Earth. As far as each lasting a day, Buu didn't last much if any longer than that.AhmadHendie wrote:Still not enough to disqualify EoZ.
There where no Majn buu level threats. Frieza and beerus where over within one day. Both of them will probably become allies.
Timeline inconsistency is a minor polt hole.
Even if you insist upon considering EoZ, it still fits if you look at it from the perspective of being excited to train/fight somebody with that much potential and not necessarily with somebody of that level of power.
There is nothing insconsistent about that. Gohan is massively stronger than his Z self. He briefly competes with SSB Gok before being one shot by SSBKK. Later during the Tournament he is at least able to compete with SSB level characters and is consistently shown to be close to but not as strong as SSB.They are super inconsistent about it.
In episode 89 gohan got his old Ultimate form.
In episode 90 he kicked SSJ2 Goku ass.
From having a Buuhan level tier base to losing to ultimate Gohan at SSJ2
He re-attained his "Ultimate form" and then they have this entire dialogue about reaching another level and continuing to train with Piccolo. Then the next day he competes with SSB. It is clear that the implication is ToP Ultimate Gohan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Buu Arc Ultimate Gohan.
The 60% line was very obviously retconned from the movies. It was excluded from the BoG for this reason, but there is no evidence for either of the other two to be retconned.I treat this as retconned along with the SSG being universal, SSG being 60% of beerus.
You have shown a grand total of 0 examples of them being objectively inconsistent about it.I have no problem with a strong base. But in super they are inconsistent about it.
...yeah this is just your head canon with nothing objective backing it up whatsoever.He never became above SSJ vegito. On his BEST day he is equal to SSJ3 Gotenks and below Z Ultimate Gohan. He can train with the supreme kai all his life and he won't match super vegito from Z(unless he unlcoks SSJ4/SSG/SSGSS)
A. He isn't necessarily even weaker than his Buu Arc self. The statement about re-attaining "the power he used against Buu" could easily refer to his "Ultimate" form and not that level of power itself. He had been training(not entirely often) with Piccolo since RoF.Is gohan Soloing buu saga here despite being stated to be below his Z ultimate form here ? Or is this classic goku holding back excuse despite the fight not going in his favour ? How is a Gohan who is stated to be below Ultimate gohan and even piccolo matching the super saiyan version of a guy with supposedly super vegito base ? Or maybe it's that base goku is only marginally stronger than his Z base and below EoZ Goku ?
B. Goku literally admits to holding back. They fight evenly in base, and Goku admits to holding back. Then, they continue to fight evenly as SSJs. The obvious logical deduction is that he continued to hold back against his son who he is casually sparring against.
C. Trying to invalidate the level of power he was portrayed at for the entirety of the series by a 1 minute gag scene is insane. The scene's purpose was for the sake of the gag that they had destroyed the farm land. It was literally a 1 minute gag scene and cannot be used to make over-archng conclusions about the power scaling across the series.
There is no "correct" one. They are each their own continuity.The manga scaling of base Goku is the correct one
The anime is being consistent with what was shown in BoG where Goku attained the same level of power as SSG in his normal SSJ form. Since he received such a boost, his base SHOULD be able to dominate SSJ3 Gotenks and give Beerus a relatively fun fight. It would have been an inconsistency if he DIDN'T dominate SSJ3 Gotenks in his base.the anime will stop the rare occasions of mis-scaling goku(it's literary that one fight with gotenks in that filler arc.and the other moneka filler episode.)and follow that .
Also, his base being as weak as you are portraying just isn't supported at all. Those aren't the only examples of Goku's base being portrayed as super strong. They CONSISTENTLY show that when Goku is trying in his base, he is incredibly strong. The examples you forgot to include are:
1. 1st Form Freeza dominates everybody, and since we know from the Namek Arc, 1st Form->Final Form constitutes a 113x boost in power, he became over a hundred times stronger. Then, Base Goku fights evenly with him. This shows that Base Goku is at a bare minimum, 113x stronger than everybody else. (SSJ Gohan, Piccolo etc, SSJ Gotenks.)
2. While in Base, Goku doesn't even appear to be exerting effort but he still competes with a Majin Buu that is vastly stronger after training.
What about episode 75 Gohan ? Is he SSB tier despite being stated to be below Z gohan ?
There is zero proof of gohan getting vastly stronger than his Z self. The guy got his old Z power in episode 89 and you want me to believe that he went to SSB realms of power within a few hours in episode 90 ?
What about trunks ? Do you logically believe the guy could Get to a super vegito Base too ??
Instead of high balling every character to the moon alongside goku based on two filler instances with no torayama outline. Why don't you logically scale him based on acctual Canon material.
SSG being universal is retconned confirmed by a DBS writer. All goku forms apart from UI/MUI are not universal. In order to be universal you need to be in jiren pre-limit break realm of power
https://imgur.com/a/j8GjNfI
The threats to earth were Frieza and Beerus. Both of them where delt with in a day and later became allies. The only major threat(Zamasu) affected the future earth
I am not talking about Goku being excited. I am talking about the fight between him and Uub. Uub putted up a fight despite being a child who doesn't know how to fight. That's why people scale base EoZ Goku to be around his old SSJ3 Z self. Gotenks is 10 times stronger than Kid buu, are you saying that Goku can body Gotenks but can't body a vastly weaker character. Or is it just Toei filler high balling Goku like we are used to.
Saiyan beyond god(absorbing the power of SSG to his base/SSJ1) is retconned. The only boosts his base got is from training with whis. Which means he has a Z level base(strong enough to close the gap between SSJ3 Goku and Gohan but weak to compete with buutenks and buuhan), which is what the manga and late anime episodes follow.
EoZ established a level of power for base Goku for BOTH the manga and anime continuities. DBS Goku can't surpass that
