Why no Genkidama in SSJ?

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:27 pm

Yeah, but he learnt to be Super Saiyan and all nice and fluffy while in the Room of Time and Spirit.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:29 pm

We're talking about Goku.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:33 pm

Er, so am I.

Okay, so Goku could control his transformations before that, but he still tended to be moody and have the "evil eyes" while transformed. After coming out of the ROTAS, he was Super Saiyan but calm, relaxed, and "with bug eyes". Vegeta even comments on it when Goku and Gohan leave the room.

The S · Post by **The S** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:46 pm

I swear, people are WAY too defensive of their TV shows...

As far as I know, only Goku and Gohan have obtained this so-called "100% full-power" mode of Super Saiyan, i.e., the calm and relaxed mode. Am I correct?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:21 pm

The S wrote:As far as I know, only Goku and Gohan have obtained this so-called "100% full-power" mode of Super Saiyan, i.e., the calm and relaxed mode. Am I correct?

It's never really said, one way or the other, but it's implied. It's demonstrated that Goku can remain in SSJ mode indefinately, without putting a strain on his body or Ki. However, in the Boo saga, Vegeta doesn't stay in SSJ when he's not fighting.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:01 am

I swear, people are WAY too defensive of their TV shows...

I was being purposefully over-melodramatic. If I was being serious in my counter, I'd have been meaner.

TGDweezl · Post by **TGDweezl** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:31 am

I remember Goku and Gohan doing that. Goku wanted to make sure that the both of them were comfortable in SSJ so they would not strain themselves and be able to keep their fighting capacity at 100%. Vegeta and Trunks went in just to train, had they done what Goku and Gohan had done they would've prolly discovered that the USSJ(?) was too bulky and therefore outright useless like Goku did. But no, Vegeta's pride and Trunks' yearning to spend time with his long lost father got in the way of all that.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:56 am

I wouldn't say that Trunks' yearning to be with his father "got in the way" of him finding out that USSJ was too bulky and slow. He was just inexperienced so that's why he didn't realize that. And Vegita did know that USSJ was useless, that's why he never aimed for that level. Cell himself states this to Trunks when he explains to him why Trunks can't keep up with him. He says that even Vegita realized that transforming into USSJ would just be a hindrance.

The S · Post by **The S** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:44 am

I was being purposefully over-melodramatic. If I was being serious in my counter, I'd have been meaner.

My apologies. It is hard to tell someone's mood over a message board. But there actually ARE people that are that defensive...

Anyway, my actual point for this post, is other than in the Toei-made parts of the storyline, Goku does not use either of Kaio-sama's techniques during any of his Super Saiyan modes. Whether or not this supposedly proof by Toriyama-sama that he cannot use those techniques, I cannot say. Only that little gasmask wearing robot of a man knows for sure.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:45 pm

Yes but I think he doesn't use it when he's a SSJ because it would be redundant. It wouldn't add anything to his power and would more than likely drain it instead.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:00 pm

Deus ex Machina wrote:
The S wrote:As far as I know, only Goku and Gohan have obtained this so-called "100% full-power" mode of Super Saiyan, i.e., the calm and relaxed mode. Am I correct?
It's never really said, one way or the other, but it's implied.

Chibi Trunks and Goten might be capable of it too, since they seem pretty much the same while in Super Saiyan mode. Goten still gets the big dopey eyes, and everything.

Caracal · Post by **Caracal** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:42 am

Ben Plante wrote:Genki Dama = Purity. SS=Not Pure. Anger. One can use the Genki Dama when SS, but to create one, they must be pure, and thuis not a SS. Only after the GD has been finished can the user tranform and do whatever.

I wondered this myself. What Ben said makes the most sense.

Although Cell said that if he really wanted to, he could make a Genki Dama... was that in the manga, or was it a Toei flub? Because if it's based on purity, Cell could most definitely not make one.

In the manga, but remember that Cell is pure evil. A pure heart is also needed for SSJ (or at least, that was the case before it was over used). Kururin points this out, and Vegeta said his heart is also pure - pure evil. But then of course King Kai said that it won't hurt anyone who has a pure, good heart, so maybe Cell was under the impression he could do it but had never actually tried and never considered the minor details.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:04 pm

How is Cell pure evil? The only people that were pure evil were Daimaou and kid Boo. Pure GOOD was Goku, so how can you say that when he's angry he's no longer pure? Wouldn't the ability to go back and forth from purity make him IMpure?

The S · Post by **The S** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:18 pm

Maybe the fact that he's an Android, not totally organic, allows him to use it?

Hell, I dunno, I gave it a shot...

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:07 pm

Wasn't Perfect Cell completely organic? I remember reading somewhere that First Form Cell is completely artificial, second form is half and half, and Perfect is organic. Although I'm not sure where I heard it, and it could be bollocks.

Caracal wrote:Vegeta said his heart is also pure - pure evil.

Vegeta is quite clearly being a big fat liar there though. Vegeta stops being "pure evil" during the Namek saga, if he ever was (which I doubt).

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:50 pm

Perfect Cell was completely organic from the start. His larval stage is organic, then he just "hatched" and later "shedded". All organic stages up to imperfect. If anything, you could only argue he was inorganic once he assimilates #17 since he's powered by a battery.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:10 pm

On the being pure evil, I agree with Mr. Werner's assertion that Frieza was the only pure evil villain from DBZ.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:40 pm

How can you deny that Piccolo Daimaou and Kid Boo were pure evil? Piccolo Daimaou was the evil side of a person, and Kid Boo was made of just malice.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:03 pm

Kid Boo was evil, but Piccolo Daimao wasn't even in dragonball Z.

Muten Turtel · Post by **Muten Turtel** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:46 pm

Bebi can make that pure evil genki-dama. I dought that reallly matters since it is GT. But maybe cell could make that too.