Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Marlowe89]

Unlike yourself, I don't pretend that I am fluent in Japanese.

Unlike yourself, I don't make assumptions about another person's language proficiency. Unlike yourself, I don't continuously shift the argument from "but one statement isn't sufficient for an authorial change" (it is) to "but Beerus might be talking about god ki" (he wasn't) to "but what if Beerus was lying" (never implied in the show) every time I'm called out on something.

The term is a pretty basic one, even if exact subtitles can vary, and you don't need anything more than a functioning ear to hear it.

BoG was obviously never actually at the level of the GoDs.

It obviously was because that's what was stated. Super Saiyan God in general obviously is because that's what material for the newest film further reaffirms.

You can keep bringing up what Whis said, but unlike Beerus, Whis never specifically talked about Super Saiyan God. This horribly confused notion you keep pushing that he would have been referring to that form at all hinges on assumptions that aren't clarified by his dialogue in that scene. Therefore, your presumption about Whis' statement lacks an objective standard.

Moreover, Whis never actually said that the highest point of the castle represents the level of the gods; he said that the castle itself did, and we already know "level of the gods" describes a pretty sizeable range. The comparison merely demonstrates that, at best, Goku and Vegeta were at the bottom of that range.

This is you just taking the time to ignore the crux of this argument to instead attack my vocabulary.

This is you downplaying the importance of appropriate word usage. If you can't articulate yourself enough to differentiate between a clear, unequivocal statement and an inferred one while you blatantly miscategorize the two, you shouldn't expect anyone to think you're making a comprehensible argument. Because you aren't. If anything, all you've been doing is reaching for a new "rebuttal" every time you reply while ignoring what was actually said.

[PFM18]

Unlike yourself, I don't make assumptions about another person's language proficiency. Unlike yourself, I don't continuously shift the argument from "but one statement isn't sufficient for an authorial change" (it is) to "but Beerus might be talking about god ki" (he wasn't) to "but what if Beerus was lying" (never implied in the show) every time I'm called out on something.

You're completely missing the point. The fact that ANY of those could be considered a viable explanation shows that your claim that this is some explicit, undeniable statement, is hopelessly misguided. It can't be such an explicit statement if it can be explained a multitude of ways.

The term is a pretty basic one, even if exact subtitles can vary, and you don't need anything more than a functioning ear to hear it.

Still pretending to know Japanese when you don't. The context of the phrasing could change the meaning as what happens in every language ever. That appears to be reflected in the official translations.

You can keep bringing up what Whis said, but unlike Beerus, Whis never specifically talked about Super Saiyan God. Your horribly confused notion that he would have been referring to that form at all hinges on assumptions that aren't clarified by his dialogue in that scene. Therefore, your presumption about Whis' statement lacks an objective standard.

He was referring to a level of power. The form is irrelevant. The form of SSG had long since been equaled and/or surpassed by that point,(explicitly stated multiple times) so if they are a tree stump to the GoDs castleat that point, then SSG would be even lower than that. Goku and Vegeta at this point are beyond the level of power of SSG, as stated SEVERAL times, and reinforced by Whis commenting on their progress,(further reinforcing he is stronger at that point than when he fought Beerus) so if their current level is a stump to the GoDs castle, then SSG is also a stump to the GoDs castle, if not smaller. It is extremely straightforward.

Moreover, Whis never actually said that the highest point of the castle represents the level of the gods; he said that the castle itself did, and we already know "level of the gods" describes a pretty sizeable range.

I don't see the point in this distinction and it makes me wonder if you even understand what Whis was trying to say.

This is you downplaying the importance of appropriate word usage. If you can't articulate yourself enough to differentiate between a clear, unequivocal statement and an inferred one while you blatantly miscategorize the two, you shouldn't expect anyone to think you're making a comprehensible argument. Because you're not. If anything, all you've been doing is reaching for a new "rebuttal" every time you reply while ignoring what was actually said.

To say that they are a tree stump to a GoD's castle isn't an explicit statement that they are nothing to the GoDs, is not displaying some inability to articulate yourself. It's hilarious to me that you are claiming that it is.

You can't claim you are making a comprehensible argument if you are attempting to invalidate the power scaling structure of the entire series because of one vague statement that may or may not even be an equivalency of an earlier statement.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

With regards to the Future Trunks Arc in the end, Vegeta says himself that he surpassed Goku when they went to Future Trunks's timeline for the last time. We see this in how he manhandled Goku Black, who had grown stronger from his beating at the hands of Goku's rage boost.

Of course, he's also not so far ahead that taking on further powerful foes at Goku Black's or even regular Goku's level is a complete cakewalk; Goku Black's clones were individually strong enough to threaten Goku AND Vegeta, Future Zamasu could land precise strikes when Vegeta's focus wasn't on him, and Merged Zamasu was so much stronger that the difference between Goku and Vegeta really didn't matter as much as their combined and/or limit-breaking power.

[Marlowe89]

You're completely missing the point. The fact that ANY of those could be considered a viable explanation shows that your claim that this is some explicit, undeniable statement, is hopelessly misguided.

It's amusing how you claim I'm "missing the point", then go off and do the very thing I've been saying you were doing since the start of this conversation.

The term doesn't translate to "ki", as I've already said, so that's not viable. I've already explained why one statement/scene is sufficient for retroactive continuity, which you seem to have openly acknowledged, so that's out too. "Hey what if Beerus was lying" is funny because it admits that the statement is there, but postulates that the person saying it is suddenly fibbing about it with no evidence to support that claim. Wait, so is the 2018 movie's supplemental material that directly corroborates Beerus' statement "lying" too?

Like I said, arguing in circles and grasping at straws. Kinda wondering what you'll come up with next.

That appears to be reflected in the official translations.

Not really. I said there were differing subtitles, not conflicting translations.

I don't see the point in this distinction

Trust me, that's no surprise at this juncture.

The distinction is that Whis was clearly calling the entire castle the "level of the gods", not just its peak. We know that the level of the gods is a pretty wide-reaching range of power, and in the prior sentence, Whis affirms how Goku and Vegeta are now strong enough to sense god ki. Hence Whis' analogy that if the castle as a whole represents the level of the gods, they're still a fledgling tree. Hence Goku and Vegeta being at the bottom of the godly totem pole, not necessarily outside of it.

To say that they are a tree stump to a GoD's castle isn't an explicit statement that they are nothing to the GoDs, is not displaying some inability to articulate yourself. It's hilarious to me that you are claiming that it is.

You know what's hilarious (and annoying) to me? Explaining why articulate, proper word usage is important only to be met with... something I wasn't talking about. Yikes. I never said anything about how they compared to Gods of Destruction.

The fact that you can't even seem to keep track of what I'm saying anymore pretty much calls your ability to keep track of anything in this series into question, which is pretty well documented in this discussion.

[HeroR]

He didn't expect a sword to come out and stab him, he didn't consider it, so because it took him by surprise it caught him off guard.

Being surprised isn't the same as being off-guard, especially when one is in a middle of an attack, so their ki would be high.

With regards to the Future Trunks Arc in the end, Vegeta says himself that he surpassed Goku when they went to Future Trunks's timeline for the last time. We see this in how he manhandled Goku Black, who had grown stronger from his beating at the hands of Goku's rage boost.

Of course, he's also not so far ahead that taking on further powerful foes at Goku Black's or even regular Goku's level is a complete cakewalk; Goku Black's clones were individually strong enough to threaten Goku AND Vegeta, Future Zamasu could land precise strikes when Vegeta's focus wasn't on him, and Merged Zamasu was so much stronger that the difference between Goku and Vegeta really didn't matter as much as their combined and/or limit-breaking power.

Veget is also an unreliable narrative. Remember, he called himself the strongest Saiyan in the TOP to Toppo despite not having a counter for Goku's Blue Kaioken, forget UI. And Goku himself chuckled at Vegeta's statement along with having a better feat than Vegeta. So if we logically say that Vegeta should be stronger, this isn't shown since Goku solo Merged Zamasu before he even used the Kaioken.

[Bullza]

With regards to the Future Trunks Arc in the end, Vegeta says himself that he surpassed Goku when they went to Future Trunks's timeline for the last time.

When does he say that?

[PFM18]

It's amusing how you claim I'm "missing the point", then go off and do the very thing I've been saying you were doing since the start of this conversation.

Alright. At this point you're clearly having trouble understanding what is going on. Let me break this down for you. If Beerus really acknowledges that Goku was "at the level of the Gods" it doesn't corroborate with what Whis says just a few episodes later about Goku and Vegeta despite getting stronger, are only a tree stump to the "level of the Gods" being the castle. This "contradiction" can be reconciled one of a couple ways:

1. Just as "the power of the Gods" often refers to God Ki, Beerus could have simply been referring to God Ki while Whis could be referring to the actual level of power of the Gods.
2. Beerus, as part of making things more dramatic and trying to draw out more power from Goku, lied about using his full-power. He could have ALSO been lying to Goku about being on the level of the Gods in the same token of lying about using his full-power.
3. Beerus was specifically referring to the level of Super Saiyan God and not the "level of the Gods" that Whis was referring to immediately afterwards when he said that they weren't at that level.

I'm not deflecting or changing my point in any way. My point has literally stayed the same this entire time. You claim that this is this explicit statement that is undeniably changing the structure of the power scaling when it clearly is not as explicit as you say if can be explained in other ways.

The term doesn't translate to "ki", as I've already said, so that's not viable.

He doesn't have to use the exact verbatim to be referring to God Ki. "The power of the Gods" obviously often refers to God Ki while not actually using the word "ki."

but postulates that the person saying it is suddenly fibbing about it with no evidence to support that claim.

.....no evidence other than the fact that he had blatantly lied about something in the same vein and his master says the opposite shortly afterwards?

Wait, so is the 2018 movie's supplemental material that directly corroborates Beerus' statement "lying" too?

Well, it doesn't directly corroborate Beeru's "statement" that BoG SSG is apparently "on the level of the Gods"(that again, Whis clarified not to be the case) because:

Broly arc SSG Vegeta>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BoG SSG Goku

Trust me, that's no surprise at this juncture.

How convenient that you edited out your original response to this. It was something along the lines of "Well it's you so it's no surprise", which is akin to the proverbial Marlowe ad hominem that you often employ to supplement your incoherent arguments. You end up ignoring entire points that I make against you and instead spend large chunks of your post just insulting.(Like my vocabulary for example.)

The distinction is that Whis was clearly calling the entire castle the "level of the gods", not just its peak. We know that the level of the gods is a pretty wide-reaching range of power, and in the prior sentence, Whis affirms how Goku and Vegeta are now strong enough to sense god ki. Hence Whis' analogy that if the castle as a whole represents the level of the gods, they're still a fledgling tree. Hence Goku and Vegeta being at the bottom of the godly totem pole, not necessarily outside of it.

This is just ridiculous. Whis was very clearly referring to the fact that they were nowhere close to that level. It couldn't have been more clear about it.

Yes, obviously the "level of the Gods" encompasses a large range. Let's just take your approach and dissect it in the most literal way possible. Whis was referring to the height of the two objects at the particular time. the tree stump is very short while the castle is very large/tall. But the thing is, even if we pretend that this was meant to refer to the entire castle and that this could possibly mean that the stump is just on the lower level of that range, the two items are set at a completely different level. The castle is way more elevated, it is on a hill/plateau compared to the tree stump so even the bottom of the castle is way higher than the tree stump. Clearly, there's no convoluted head canon way that you can spin this so that Whis is referring to a stronger Goku and Vegeta as being in the level of the Gods.

You know what's hilarious (and annoying) to me? Explaining why articulate, proper word usage is important only to be met with... something I wasn't talking about. Yikes. I never said anything about how they compared to Gods of Destruction.

You were commenting how I didn't use the word "explicit" and then went into some little tirade about how I need to have proper word usage. I explained to you how I WAS using the word "explicit" correctly, I was not accusing you of saying anything at all like you seem to be under the impression that I am.

The fact that you can't even seem to keep track of what I'm saying anymore pretty much calls your ability to keep track of anything in this series into question, which is pretty well documented in this discussion.

Right right. I'm too stupid to even talk about this with you, so I probably can't even understand the series.

I kept track of what you are saying just fine.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

With regards to the Future Trunks Arc in the end, Vegeta says himself that he surpassed Goku when they went to Future Trunks's timeline for the last time.

When does he say that?

When Goku and Vegeta prepare to take on Goku Black and Future Zamasu after the former tried to kill Gowasu and Shin, Vegeta says he's superior to the real Goku and won't lose to the fake Goku Black. Which he then proves later on.

[ZombieVito]

With regards to the Future Trunks Arc in the end, Vegeta says himself that he surpassed Goku when they went to Future Trunks's timeline for the last time.

When does he say that?

When Goku and Vegeta prepare to take on Goku Black and Future Zamasu after the former tried to kill Gowasu and Shin, Vegeta says he's superior to the real Goku and won't lose to the fake Goku Black. Which he then proves later on.

Very interesting. I completely missed this.

I guess this confirms Goku indeed surpassed Vegeta during the fight with Merged Zamasu since both of them don't train much before the ToP.

[Marlowe89]

My point has literally stayed the same this entire time.

I mean, it literally hasn't. You've been coming up with new attempts at "reconciling" what was clearly a direct statement in the series with every post, which doesn't actually work in your favor because each one tries to divert/downplay the specificity of the dialogue.

If it eventually gets to the point where you have to admit that the dialogue exists but then contend that the character was lying about it, that shows that you're willing to move the goalposts anywhere you can to keep your interpretation valid. Therefore, when you start haphazardly using words like "ridiculous" and "stupid" or resort to ad hominem attacks on my knowledge of foreign languages, I can't help but wonder if the irony is genuinely lost on you.

He doesn't have to use the exact verbatim to be referring to God Ki.

He absolutely does. God ki is aways described in clear, specific terms. "Chikara" literally refers to strength or power in the sense of exerting a degree of force, not a type of energy. That's why kami no chikara tends to be translated as "level of the gods", because that's exactly what it means.

no evidence other than the fact that he had blatantly lied about something in the same vein and his master says the opposite shortly afterwards?

Do I really have to repeat this?

Yes, no evidence. Whis theorized that Beerus may have been lying about using his full power, which Beerus confirmed. That doesn't automatically mean Beerus lies about everything. That doesn't mean Beerus was lying about the level of power Super Saiyan God reached.

Well, it doesn't directly corroborate Beeru's "statement" that BoG SSG is apparently "on the level of the Gods"(that again, Whis clarified not to be the case) because:

Broly arc SSG Vegeta>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BoG SSG Goku

Well, it does. If you actually read what I linked, you'd realize that the blurb specifically and exclusively refers to the time Vegeta started training with Whis. Just because it's material for the movie doesn't instantly mean it has anything to do with the movie's time period, so I don't know why you'd put "Broly arc SSG Vegeta" into the equation in the first place.

Vegeta was frustrated at losing to Beerus, then starts to train with Whis, then obtains a form (SSG) that reaches the level of the gods. That's what the material says.

Whis was very clearly referring to the fact that they were nowhere close to that level.

He very clearly didn't say that, so you're still making this part up. He said that the castle represents the level of the gods, not "the top of the castle" or "the tip of the castle". You're adding in words where they weren't implied because you can't acknowledge that maybe you just misinterpreted his whole analogy.

I'm not "insulting" your vocabulary, I'm criticizing it. I'm emphasizing why it's important to fully clarify what you mean. Your statement was misleading because it implied that Whis was explicit about Goku and Vegeta surpassing Super Saiyan God, but he wasn't explicit about that. He didn't even mention it.

[Bullza]

I guess this confirms Goku indeed surpassed Vegeta during the fight with Merged Zamasu since both of them don't train much before the ToP.

Ehh I dunno, it's something Vegeta would say anyway isn't it?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I guess this confirms Goku indeed surpassed Vegeta during the fight with Merged Zamasu since both of them don't train much before the ToP.

Ehh I dunno, it's something Vegeta would say anyway isn't it?

Perhaps, but Vegeta did say it after spending 6 months in the Room of Spirit & Time, as well as being driven to surpass Goku Black for the sake of avenging Future Trunks, Future Bulma, and even Goku. When Vegeta fights for GOKU?

You KNOW he means business.

[PFM18]

He very clearly didn't say that, so you're still making this part up. He said that the castle represents the level of the gods, not "the top of the castle" or "the tip of the castle". You're adding in words where they weren't implied because you can't acknowledge that maybe you just misinterpreted his whole analogy.

Yeah I think this pretty much sums up your argument. You're twisting things to fit your head canon.

Whis compares Goku and Vegeta to a tree stump and the level of the Gods being a fucking enormous castle and then your rebuttal is literally trying to pretend that Whis would need to say "top of the castle" for this to be mean what it very clearly means. These type of convoluted head canon rationalizations even being necessary shows how weak your argument is. It should be obvious to everyone what Whis meant and him specifying which part of the castle he is referring to is absolutely not necessary at all whatsoever. I did not "add words" nor did I claim he said anything other than exactly what he said. The dialogue's purpose is to say "Goku and Vegeta may have gotten much stronger, but they still aren't even close to the level of the gods." (stronger than SSG too of course) You never even attempted to provide any other possible rationalization/interpretation of what Whis said. This dialogue pretty much debunks your entire argument because you're operating under the assumption that this "level of the Gods" and how it relates to the SSG absorption must have been changed because of the mention of the aforementioned verbatim in the Exhibition match, but the fact of the matter is that Whis said that they weren't at the level of the Gods even after they got stronger than SSG. You

.....And I'm done discussing this. It's very clear. It's simple. And you have proven yourself incapable of having a discussion that doesn't include constantly insulting your opposition and/or talking with an extremely condescending undertone.

[Bullza]

I finally finished the saga and the last three episodes are definitely the most confusing so I'll try and recap what happens. This is based on the subs on the disc too.

1. SSJB Vegeta beats the tar out of SSJR Black. A lot of Vegeta's growth was due to anger.

2. SSJR Black gets the Scythe. Says his strength surpasses his understanding and ascends to peaks untrodden.

3. Black says that he will fight Goku and Vegeta himself when the power of their anger makes them even stronger. This and the "untrodden" comment perhaps imply that Black had surpassed them.

4. Merged Zamasu pops up. He's said to have colossal power and then it skyrockets further when he creates the halo.

5. Zamasu does his Blades of Light and Vegeta says he's never seen anyone release Ki like that before. Originally the sub I saw said "felt Ki" so I took it to mean that Merged Zamasu would be at least as strong as SSJB Blue Goku Kaio-ken x10 but no he was referring to the attack itself.

6. Gowasu says he'd never seen the power of light this great and Shin says neither have I....Dunno what that means but Gowasu also says that their powers didn't just merge but expanded to no end. So he's a lot stronger than Black.

7. Shin says that they have far surpassed their understanding even on a divine scale. I'm not sure if that instead might mean he's stronger than SSJB Goku Kaio-ken x10.

8. One blast from the Absolute Lightning knocks the Blue out of Goku and Vegeta.

9. They get up, Vegeta says Saiyans know no limits and Goku says full power. This time they just fly straight through the Ultimate Lighting and destroy the cloud.

10. Trunks shows up, he powers up big time, I assume he's now back on Goku and Vegeta level again.

11. There's the beam clashes. Vegeta mentions not underestimating the boundless power of the Saiyans. That and the no limits comment make me wonder if they were just powering up as they were being pressed.

12. Goku one shots him with the Kaio-ken so I'd say Merged Zamasu was less than twice as strong as them. If SSJB Goku is like a 10 then maybe Merged Zamasu is a 15.

14. Merged Zamasu has his Light of Justice power up and would appear to be a lot more powerful again.

15. SSJB Vegito at first seems to be equal to him but then starts to overwhelm him though he does tank a Final Kamehameha.

16. Trunks shows up, takes Goku and Vegeta's energy, absorbs the Spirit Bomb(?) into himself and beats Merged Zamasu with ease. I still think he probably was more powerful than Vegito at that point whether it makes sense or not.

[ZombieVito]

I finally finished the saga and the last three episodes are definitely the most confusing so I'll try and recap what happens. This is based on the subs on the disc too.

1. SSJB Vegeta beats the tar out of SSJR Black. A lot of Vegeta's growth was due to anger.

2. SSJR Black gets the Scythe. Says his strength surpasses his understanding and ascends to peaks untrodden.

3. Black says that he will fight Goku and Vegeta himself when the power of their anger makes them even stronger. This and the "untrodden" comment perhaps imply that Black had surpassed them.

4. Merged Zamasu pops up. He's said to have colossal power and then it skyrockets further when he creates the halo.

5. Zamasu does his Blades of Light and Vegeta says he's never seen anyone release Ki like that before. Originally the sub I saw said "felt Ki" so I took it to mean that Merged Zamasu would be at least as strong as SSJB Blue Goku Kaio-ken x10 but no he was referring to the attack itself.

6. Gowasu says he'd never seen the power of light this great and Shin says neither have I....Dunno what that means but Gowasu also says that their powers didn't just merge but expanded to no end. So he's a lot stronger than Black.

7. Shin says that they have far surpassed their understanding even on a divine scale. I'm not sure if that instead might mean he's stronger than SSJB Goku Kaio-ken x10.

8. One blast from the Absolute Lightning knocks the Blue out of Goku and Vegeta.

9. They get up, Vegeta says Saiyans know no limits and Goku says full power. This time they just fly straight through the Ultimate Lighting and destroy the cloud.

10. Trunks shows up, he powers up big time, I assume he's now back on Goku and Vegeta level again.

11. There's the beam clashes. Vegeta mentions not underestimating the boundless power of the Saiyans. That and the no limits comment make me wonder if they were just powering up as they were being pressed.

12. Goku one shots him with the Kaio-ken so I'd say Merged Zamasu was less than twice as strong as them. If SSJB Goku is like a 10 then maybe Merged Zamasu is a 15.

14. Merged Zamasu has his Light of Justice power up and would appear to be a lot more powerful again.

15. SSJB Vegito at first seems to be equal to him but then starts to overwhelm him though he does tank a Final Kamehameha.

16. Trunks shows up, takes Goku and Vegeta's energy, absorbs the Spirit Bomb(?) into himself and beats Merged Zamasu with ease. I still think he probably was more powerful than Vegito at that point whether it makes sense or not.

5.- Interesting. I will watch this with official subs next time.

6.- Gowasu also outright states that Black was the strongest before he and Zamasu fused.

10.- I agree with this. I do have Trunks also getting another rage power up here.

12.- We don't know what Kaioken he used and before anyone says it, no, he doesn't always states it. Just watch E123.

15.- This was because of speed, as Vegetto said.

16.- He might be or Zamasu was getting weaker since he was falling apart. Who knows really, it can go either way.

[Bullza]

6.- Gowasu also outright states that Black was the strongest before he and Zamasu fused.

Did he? I missed that one so I'll have to look back on that.

12.- We don't know what Kaioken he used and before anyone says it, no, he doesn't always states it. Just watch E123.

This is true. Usually when he just says Kaio-ken then it's X2 but it could just be in general. There isn't much way of knowing but it definitely wouldn't be more than X10 because that hadn't been established by then.

Still with Vegeta and Trunks together just about overpowering Zamasu and then Goku going all out to overpower him then I wouldn't have said Zamasu was that much more than twice as strong at best anyway.

[ZombieVito]

6.- Gowasu also outright states that Black was the strongest before he and Zamasu fused.

Did he? I missed that one so I'll have to look back on that.

12.- We don't know what Kaioken he used and before anyone says it, no, he doesn't always states it. Just watch E123.

This is true. Usually when he just says Kaio-ken then it's X2 but it could just be in general. There isn't much way of knowing but it definitely wouldn't be more than X10 because that hadn't been established by then.

Still with Vegeta and Trunks together just about overpowering Zamasu and then Goku going all out to overpower him then I wouldn't have said Zamasu was that much more than twice as strong at best anyway.

Yeah Gowasu says it at around the half the episode mark while describing Merged Zamasu. He described Black as the strongest.

It can just be them having better amp that Zamasu. Leaving his guard down can also be a factor. In any case their combine attack couldn't damage him at all, I doubt that would happen if the difference was that small.

[Bullza]

Wait Gowasu's comment was before Merged Zamasu came to be or was half way through the episode after he'd already appeared?

[ankokudaishogun]

About Goku one shotting" Zamasu with Kaiohken: he only managed a single clean hit, most likely due the surprise effect of his sudden power-up on a Zamasu who got both hit by Father-Son Garrick Cannon and his own energy sphere exploding on his face.

Also: nowhere we are told Kaioken Blue has the same multiplier on base stats than the base Kaiohken. That said we aren't told it doesn't, either; but God Ki DOES work differently than Normal Ki.
Frankly, I suspect it does have a lower multiplicator because no way in hell Goku would have needed going TEN times stronger than Hit. Using Kaiohken Blue x10 right after managing to use Kaiohken Blue for the first time seems way too reckless even for anime Goku, unless it was strictly necessary or not as dangerous\effective

[RecolorSaiyan]

About Goku one shotting" Zamasu with Kaiohken: he only managed a single clean hit, most likely due the surprise effect of his sudden power-up on a Zamasu who got both hit by Father-Son Garrick Cannon and his own energy sphere exploding on his face.

Also: nowhere we are told Kaioken Blue has the same multiplier on base stats than the base Kaiohken. That said we aren't told it doesn't, either; but God Ki DOES work differently than Normal Ki.
Frankly, I suspect it does have a lower multiplicator because no way in hell Goku would have needed going TEN times stronger than Hit. Using Kaiohken Blue x10 right after managing to use Kaiohken Blue for the first time seems way too reckless even for anime Goku, unless it was strictly necessary or not as dangerous\effective

Hit basically said goku's power was multiplying when he was using kaioken, he explicitly said "3 times, no 4" before goku went "times 10". Kaioken is a straight up multiplier.