Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Discussion regarding any musical aspect of the franchise, from game soundtracks to BGM to remixes. Upcoming & classic CDs, reviews, where to find them, and more!

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
JohnnyCashKami
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:22 pm

Was he fired?

Things without him aren't quite the same anymore. :(

User avatar
Chuquita
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15035
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Chuquita » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:54 pm

I think he belongs to a different music corporation than the one Toei currently has ties to. Kageyama's with Lantis. All the recent DB soundtracks with Columbia.
My deviantart * My tumblr * My twitter
---
フレフレ みんあ! フレフレ 私!

User avatar
ekrolo2
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 7811
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:27 am
Location: Split, Croatia

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:40 am

I think he left with Yamamoto as a sign of solidarity or something.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):

User avatar
Kaiza_Toshiyuki
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:32 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:13 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I think he left with Yamamoto as a sign of solidarity or something.
That very well may have happened

Dbzfan94
I Live Here
Posts: 4819
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:03 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I think he left with Yamamoto as a sign of solidarity or something.
That’s what I’ve guessed too

User avatar
Xeogran
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1829
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Xeogran » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:54 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Was he fired?
Heck no, he's a classic and they respect him. It's probably because of Yamamoto as the above posters said.

User avatar
MCDaveG
I Live Here
Posts: 4619
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 pm
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:33 pm

Chuquita wrote:I think he belongs to a different music corporation than the one Toei currently has ties to. Kageyama's with Lantis. All the recent DB soundtracks with Columbia.
This! It is not like he has any ties to Yamamoto. Kaygeyama was not doing openings since Kai with Yamamoto on board.
''Gotta catch 'em all! Dragon Baaaaall!''

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 2665
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:59 pm

A. I'm not so sure Kageyama would stand by someone who's suddenly, and indisputably been outed as having plagiarised all compositional work across his career.

B. Kageyama didn't sing Kai's OP or any of its EDs, even though Yamamoto was on board for those.

C. The explanation of him belonging to a different label really does make sense.
Never lose hope that your situation can improve.

Big Boss
Regular
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Big Boss » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:09 pm

Yamamoto and Kageyama are good friends. In fact, Yamamoto still arranges songs for Kageyama to this day. That being said, it is most likely the label issue as others pointed out.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 2665
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:56 pm

Big Boss wrote:Yamamoto and Kageyama are good friends. In fact, Yamamoto still arranges songs for Kageyama to this day.
I see. :lol:

Well, still, that is just arranging, I suppose. And if Yamamoto's career is a testament to anything, it's his ability at arranging... :lol:
Never lose hope that your situation can improve.

User avatar
dcx6723
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by dcx6723 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:08 am

In an interview in France (maybe 2/3 years ago), Kageyama said that Kenji Yamamoto was his best friend to date.
The firing of Kenji Yamamoto killed any chance for Kageyama to come back anyway.

Big Boss
Regular
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Big Boss » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:22 pm

dcx6723 wrote:In an interview in France (maybe 2/3 years ago), Kageyama said that Kenji Yamamoto was his best friend to date.
The firing of Kenji Yamamoto killed any chance for Kageyama to come back anyway.
Got a link to that interview? Pretty curious. :)

User avatar
dcx6723
Newbie
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by dcx6723 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:24 pm

Big Boss wrote:
dcx6723 wrote:In an interview in France (maybe 2/3 years ago), Kageyama said that Kenji Yamamoto was his best friend to date.
The firing of Kenji Yamamoto killed any chance for Kageyama to come back anyway.
Got a link to that interview? Pretty curious. :)
Look at the beginning, how happy he's speaking of him (english subtitles available).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKCrQz-gZEM

Oh, apparently he's not asked to work on DB songs anymore then.

Big Boss
Regular
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Big Boss » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:31 pm

dcx6723 wrote:
Big Boss wrote:
dcx6723 wrote:In an interview in France (maybe 2/3 years ago), Kageyama said that Kenji Yamamoto was his best friend to date.
The firing of Kenji Yamamoto killed any chance for Kageyama to come back anyway.
Got a link to that interview? Pretty curious. :)
Look at the beginning, how happy he's speaking of him (english subtitles available).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKCrQz-gZEM

Oh, apparently he's not asked to work on DB songs anymore then.
Thanks. Never seen him do an interview before, so it's nice to hear his normal speaking voice. Also good to hear it from Kageyama directly that they're best buds. :D

User avatar
linkdude20002001
I Live Here
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: Lynnwood, Washington

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:15 am

dcx6723 wrote:Look at the beginning, how happy he's speaking of him (english subtitles available).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKCrQz-gZEM

Oh, apparently he's not asked to work on DB songs anymore then.
Thanks for this. I'd never seen this before.

It was probably Kenji Yamamoto who kept Hironobu Kageyama and the others as a part of Dragon Ball. I wonder if it's also a decision to make things "new and fresh". Or maybe they just don't want anything to do with him since the Kageyamas are so close to the Yamamotoes. Either way, it's sad what happend. We'll probably never get another official DB songs from the people who make up Monolith. But there's always the chance they'll make some new songs on their own just out of their love for the series.
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide

Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."

User avatar
SpiritBombTriumphant
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 357
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:57 am

I honestly think that Toei is catering much more to the international market than the Japanese market. When Dragon Ball first aired, they had Kikuchi and Kageyama making music for the show. But in general, the West hates it. The show is about badassery, butt kicking, and super spiky haired guys with 0.001% body fat fighting evil guys. They want something more in line with that and Kageyama's happier songs like CHA-LA HEAD-CHA-LA or Tamashii VS Tamashii simply don't fit. And forget about Kikuchi. Except to purists like the admins here, me, and others, Kikuchi is generally seen as the worst part of the franchise.

So with the money the franchise makes because of the international market they've said in interviews that they focused on us for both Resurrection 'F' and Broly. We're the reason Dragon Ball made a comeback after it ended in Japan. We loved Kai enough for them to shit out a terrible second part. We eat this franchise for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and most people don't want the tone set by Kikuchi or Kageyama. Just look at the difference in the music between Kikuchi/Kageyama and Sumitomo. The latter is much more Western-styled with his music from guitars and a bit of a rock sound to giving characters (some) leitmotifs such as Zamasu ("The Birth of Merged Zamasu") or UI Goku ("The Final Death-Match").

It's sad because as someone currently watching Z in its original Japanese format and enjoying it, I like the tone set by Kikuchi and Kageyama. But the majority of fans aren't hardcore like those of us on Kanzenshuu and do not care about purity. They want badassery and Faulconer and now Sumitomo give it to them with the music they make and the style of composing they do. It's a different era because Toei is following the money. I just hope that if they eventually do a proper remaster of Z that they get broadcast audio so we can at least have the series properly preserved in the highest quality possible.

Of course, the theory about labels makes sense. I'm just stating I've seen Toei make comments about focusing on the international market ever since Resurrection 'F' and the way Sumitomo composes music along with the tone he sets... it just makes sense. The days of Kikuchi are over. That's why Toei initially made a new score for Kai most likely. They wanted to appeal more to international fans and a good portion of us do not like Kikuchi. I only recently (this year) learned to accept and appreciate Kikuchi. But people like me or the admins of Kanzenshuu are few and far in between. And seriously? Why would Kageyama stick with someone who fucked his whole career by plagiarizing? If I had a friend (a best friend at that) who did it I would NOT stick with him/her.
alakazam^ wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:24 pm
Shiyonasan wrote:Just when you thought there couldn't be anymore Yamamoto rip offs...
At this point, I think it's safe to say everything he did was plagiarized. Basically, if you hear a tune that sounds like it could have vocals, then it most likely did.

User avatar
linkdude20002001
I Live Here
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: Lynnwood, Washington

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:11 am

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:Why would Kageyama stick with someone who fucked his whole career by plagiarizing? If I had a friend (a best friend at that) who did it I would NOT stick with him/her.
Yamamoto's plagiarism has nothing to do with the recent lack of Kageyama. He still makes music; he's released two albums since then. In fact, the only reason we had him around was BECUZ of his friendship with Yamamoto. Toei abandond Kageyama in 1996 when they moved on from DBZ to DBGT. Since Yamamoto was in charge of the game music, he kept Kageyama around. But even when Toei got Yamamoto for Kai, it seems he was unable to get them to bring back Kageyama too...

Since Yamamoto's termination, he arranged Kageyama's song Karma. There are more familiar names too! Yuriko Mori composed Life without you, which was arranged by Broadway, who also arranged 甘く危険な夜に, Mr. Travelin’ Man, and She's trouble & I'm such a fool!.

And he's also one of the main members of JAM Project, which have released three albums since 2011 as well. I think his career is the same as ever.
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide

Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."

SaintEvolution
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 2:56 pm

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by SaintEvolution » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:55 pm

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:I honestly think that Toei is catering much more to the international market than the Japanese market. When Dragon Ball first aired, they had Kikuchi and Kageyama making music for the show. But in general, the West hates it. The show is about badassery, butt kicking, and super spiky haired guys with 0.001% body fat fighting evil guys. They want something more in line with that and Kageyama's happier songs like CHA-LA HEAD-CHA-LA or Tamashii VS Tamashii simply don't fit. And forget about Kikuchi. Except to purists like the admins here, me, and others, Kikuchi is generally seen as the worst part of the franchise.

So with the money the franchise makes because of the international market they've said in interviews that they focused on us for both Resurrection 'F' and Broly. We're the reason Dragon Ball made a comeback after it ended in Japan. We loved Kai enough for them to shit out a terrible second part. We eat this franchise for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and most people don't want the tone set by Kikuchi or Kageyama. Just look at the difference in the music between Kikuchi/Kageyama and Sumitomo. The latter is much more Western-styled with his music from guitars and a bit of a rock sound to giving characters (some) leitmotifs such as Zamasu ("The Birth of Merged Zamasu") or UI Goku ("The Final Death-Match").

It's sad because as someone currently watching Z in its original Japanese format and enjoying it, I like the tone set by Kikuchi and Kageyama. But the majority of fans aren't hardcore like those of us on Kanzenshuu and do not care about purity. They want badassery and Faulconer and now Sumitomo give it to them with the music they make and the style of composing they do. It's a different era because Toei is following the money. I just hope that if they eventually do a proper remaster of Z that they get broadcast audio so we can at least have the series properly preserved in the highest quality possible.

Of course, the theory about labels makes sense. I'm just stating I've seen Toei make comments about focusing on the international market ever since Resurrection 'F' and the way Sumitomo composes music along with the tone he sets... it just makes sense. The days of Kikuchi are over. That's why Toei initially made a new score for Kai most likely. They wanted to appeal more to international fans and a good portion of us do not like Kikuchi. I only recently (this year) learned to accept and appreciate Kikuchi. But people like me or the admins of Kanzenshuu are few and far in between. And seriously? Why would Kageyama stick with someone who fucked his whole career by plagiarizing? If I had a friend (a best friend at that) who did it I would NOT stick with him/her.
Sorry, but west is not only North America. Latin America and Europe are west too, and the fans from the countries in these regions are pretty well used with Kikuchi score.

User avatar
linkdude20002001
I Live Here
Posts: 2537
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:22 pm
Location: Lynnwood, Washington

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:06 pm

Plus, even all these recent theatrical releases of the movies are using the Kukuchi score. And FUNi's 2001 dub of DB used the Kikuchi score. As did the Blue Water dub.
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide

Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."

Dbzfan94
I Live Here
Posts: 4819
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Why doesn't Kageyama do the OPs for Dragon Ball series/games anymore?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:03 pm

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:I honestly think that Toei is catering much more to the international market than the Japanese market. When Dragon Ball first aired, they had Kikuchi and Kageyama making music for the show. But in general, the West hates it.
Even as a huge dub fan, I havent seen a single person who has expressed dislike for Kageyama's songs. Especially for the games.

Post Reply