Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[AnimeNation101]

this post lowered my IQ and made my head hurt.

do you know that Toriyama checks every single page Toyo does and even corrects them?

and please call me a manga lover, even tho I didn't like pretty much any ToP chapter so far.

I think I lost a few brain cells from reading that post too.

And he seriously thinks he could write a monthly manga on the order as Toyotaro's lol. He probably wouldn't even be able to handle a quarter of the schedule mangakas like Toyo regularly follow.

Doesn't seem like toyble can handle the schedule either considering how trash his writing is

I dont think this arc is a fair judgement of his skills. He’s obviously being rushed so that he can get to the Broly arc while its still hot. So not only is the pacing problem showing to most, but he has to fit tons of stuff into one chapter.

Hell, he had Kale take out 4 UNIVERSES in one chapter. It also explains why other characters on U7 or other universe teamsdidn’t get nearly as much focus.

Lets wait until after he adapts the Broly stuff and probably continues the dbs story where we dont have an anime to compare it to. Lets see how he does. Maybe it’ll be just as shit or maybe it’ll be good.

[Terez]

Does anyone know of a place to buy movie tickets other than Fandango for the US or Madman for Australia? (Or brolyisback.co.uk for UK alerts.)

[Shaddy]

Those aren't the 90's design for Goku, that looks like a repurposed 2010, or BOG era design.
This a complete design comparison.

Spoiler:

How weird. I got that Goku from this image alongside the other Yamamuro designs, but looking at it now the linework is actually identical to the 2010 design. So did Yamamuro trace himself, or did the person who made this image just steal a different Goku and color it the same so people won't notice?

Irrelevant in this matter.

I mean...not really. Good color coordination with UI in the future would be a good thing, but it's not here right now.

As common as not having it apparently.

It's never too late to start. Modern DB's designs are already all over the place due to being from several different eras of Toriyama's art style, giving them visual consistency is a good thing.

I disagree, pants, pelt, and generic Saiya-jin boots, all inferior to his OG design IMHO.

It's really not that different. Either way it'd never be a deal breaker.

Of course I can, but YOU don't have to agree.

It's using Minus generic crap, and I don't like it, plus it creates inconsistency.

What if, hypothetically, I said that Z in particular was bad because I didn't like Goku's hairstyle? Like, that's not anything specific to Z. I can be annoyed that Tori didn't change it (well he kinda did lol), but there's no reason to single it out over the original.

#1) I didn't either, if you paid attention, I meant the combo, not just a single thing.

#2) And you can like whatever, I don't like this movie's style.

I just saw them on DB Heroes cards, and I don't want ANY of those cards, they look lame AF.

I mean...all of Heroes is lame.

Regardless I'm still not seeing much of a concrete reason to call an entire film garbage. You've told me you don't like Shintani's designs even though you seem to agree that they're better than Super's, and two characters have colors and outfit choices you personally dislike. That's what you've told me so far.

I don't think I'd ever walk away from a film for problems as minor as those, and I certainly wouldn't use it trying to justify calling it shit to everyone else. Also don't generalize anyone who disagrees with you as "not paying attention", that's a cheap shortcut to fake logical superiority and it'll get you nowhere.

I dont think this arc is a fair judgement of his skills. He’s obviously being rushed so that he can get to the Broly arc while its still hot. So not only is the pacing problem showing to most, but he has to fit tons of stuff into one chapter.

Hell, he had Kale take out 4 UNIVERSES in one chapter. It also explains why other characters on U7 or other universe teamsdidn’t get nearly as much focus.

Lets wait until after he adapts the Broly stuff and probably continues the dbs story where we dont have an anime to compare it to. Lets see how he does. Maybe it’ll be just as shit or maybe it’ll be good.

I'm not sure that's what the problem really is. The entire leadup to the ToP was just tolerable mediocrity, it's the last several tournament chapters being particularly bad that's gotten people talking so much. But on a scale of page layout and writing, not artwork (mostly). I don't think "he's just being rushed and it'll get better after this" is true when he's still doing way more work, which is what is weakening the manga itself. More time won't make him crowd his panels less, as far as I can see. It certainly hasn't before now.

The story being bad is more trying to have his cake and eat it. When he learned about the movie he should've changed his approach to the story to not include anything he doesn't have to. Move to an "essentials only" version of the arc rather than trying to cram in all this shit. He doesn't need to have Kale take out four universes, or cram in pointless shots of other characters to say they're in the story. Nobody cares about most of the ToP fighters as it is, so having a story focus exclusively on the ones we DO could actually be better than the anime.

[CTAkuma]

I dont think this arc is a fair judgement of his skills. He’s obviously being rushed so that he can get to the Broly arc while its still hot. So not only is the pacing problem showing to most, but he has to fit tons of stuff into one chapter.

Hell, he had Kale take out 4 UNIVERSES in one chapter. It also explains why other characters on U7 or other universe teamsdidn’t get nearly as much focus.

Lets wait until after he adapts the Broly stuff and probably continues the dbs story where we dont have an anime to compare it to. Lets see how he does. Maybe it’ll be just as shit or maybe it’ll be good.

Exactly. This whole parroting of "Toyble is at fault for everything, he is trash" from Youtubers and twitterfolk is getting really annoying.

[Miracles]

Doesn't seem like toyble can handle the schedule either considering how trash his writing is

No, It's a known fact that the writing for the DB Super manga is better than the anime's. The anime has [will always] better visuals.

[AnimeNation101]

I dont think this arc is a fair judgement of his skills. He’s obviously being rushed so that he can get to the Broly arc while its still hot. So not only is the pacing problem showing to most, but he has to fit tons of stuff into one chapter.

Hell, he had Kale take out 4 UNIVERSES in one chapter. It also explains why other characters on U7 or other universe teamsdidn’t get nearly as much focus.

Lets wait until after he adapts the Broly stuff and probably continues the dbs story where we dont have an anime to compare it to. Lets see how he does. Maybe it’ll be just as shit or maybe it’ll be good.

I'm not sure that's what the problem really is. The entire leadup to the ToP was just tolerable mediocrity, it's the last several tournament chapters being particularly bad that's gotten people talking so much. But on a scale of page layout and writing, not artwork (mostly). I don't think "he's just being rushed and it'll get better after this" is true when he's still doing way more work, which is what is weakening the manga itself. More time won't make him crowd his panels less, as far as I can see. It certainly hasn't before now.

The story being bad is more trying to have his cake and eat it. When he learned about the movie he should've changed his approach to the story to not include anything he doesn't have to. Move to an "essentials only" version of the arc rather than trying to cram in all this shit. He doesn't need to have Kale take out four universes, or cram in pointless shots of other characters to say they're in the story. Nobody cares about most of the ToP fighters as it is, so having a story focus exclusively on the ones we DO could actually be better than the anime.[/quote]
I’m not saying it WILL get better. I’m saying that it would be better to judge his manga writing when he isn’t supposedly being rushed to finish the T.o.P, and when the manga is touching completely uncharted dbs story territory before the likely DBS 2.0 when Toyotaro finished the Broly manga adaptation.

Also, I'm pretty sure that, since this is coming after the T.o.P in the anime, the things they found great about the T.o.P in the anime are bound to be expected or at least rivaled by the manga content. Or just the T.o.P’s main points in general.

That would mean stuff like the Trio de Danger, Kale going Berserk, Ribrianne battle, Kefla happening, Vegeta vs Toppo, Goku and Hit team-up, UI Omen Goku, UI Goku vs Jiren, Goku and Freeza team up, and 17 winning it all are main points Toyo would have to hit.

Thats what i think would be “essentials only”. Heck, I’d even argue Aniraza battle would be up on there.

But yeah, back to what i was saying, i think we should wait till Toyo isn’t rushed and has his shot at the new DBS story content before the anime. And if the anime, when it comes back, adapts the Broly movie (lets say thats 13 episodes which was about the same for B.o.G) and if it comes back in July the earliest, and Toyo’s manga adaptation is 4 to 5 chapters (since the B.o.G part of the DBS manga was 4 chapters and his R.o.F movie adaptation manga was 3 chapters), and we say that the T.o.P arc ends next chapter or the chapter after that, Toyo will be 6 to 7 chapters into the next story. And the DBS manga chapter content ranges from 2 to 4 episodes worth.

[Meshack]

We don't even know if Goku being unable to access Ultra Instinct at will is a Toriyama exclusive idea. Seeing in the manga, Goku can access it with control.

No he can't...

Did you not see Goku transform into UI after 17 blew himself up and stated he won't allow his surrounding to distract him and not let his emotions control him? He didn't need to be knocked out or pushed to access UI like in the anime. In the comic Goku was in full control. Then as Jiren was powering up he took a deep breath and he turned full UI on his own.

If he could do that then he would have done it from the start. You're reading into it

[Shaddy]

No, It's a known fact that the writing for the DB Super manga is better than the anime's. The anime has [will always] better visuals.

A "known fact", huh. Yikes. You know people aren't somehow retroactively convincing themselves that they didn't enjoy something they actually did, right? As if that were even possible?

I’m not saying it WILL get better. I’m saying that it would be better to judge his manga writing when he isn’t supposedly being rushed to finish the T.o.P, and when the manga is touching completely uncharted dbs story territory before the likely DBS 2.0 when Toyotaro finished the Broly manga adaptation.

Also, I'm pretty sure that, since this is coming after the T.o.P in the anime, the things they found great about the T.o.P in the anime are bound to be expected or at least rivaled by the manga content. Or just the T.o.P’s main points in general.

But I think "supposedly rushed" or not, a bad job is a bad job. His problem isn't being rushed, it's that he took the wrong approach from the get-go and didn't compensate for his schedule. If he had a limited number of chapters, then he should have made a smaller-scale story, that's the point I'm making. But he tried to go through with things the way they were anyway and it's turned out horribly. It's not his fault that the tournament was cut short, that much is fine, but it is his fault that it's got claustrophobic art, little to no buildup and payoff for the action, and just general faffing about when he could be trying to actually tell the story.

It's basic overambition. This is why Sonic 06 is a bad game. Being rushed and in dev hell doesn't give it an excuse for being terrible. If the team had ignored the hugely ambitious stuff, focused on making the controls and mechanics work right, and reduced it to a smaller game that actually played like SA1 or 2 despite not being as long as the final insane product, it wouldn't have been as bad.

That would mean stuff like the Trio de Danger, Kale going Berserk, Ribrianne battle, Kefla happening, Vegeta vs Toppo, Goku and Hit team-up, UI Omen Goku, UI Goku vs Jiren, Goku and Freeza team up, and 17 winning it all are main points Toyo would have to hit.

Thats what i think would be “essentials only”. Heck, I’d even argue Aniraza battle would be up on there.

But yeah, back to what i was saying, i think we should wait till Toyo isn’t rushed and has his shot at the new DBS story content before the anime. And if the anime, when it comes back, adapts the Broly movie (lets say thats 13 episodes which was about the same for B.o.G) and if it comes back in July the earliest, and Toyo’s manga adaptation is 4 to 5 chapters (since the B.o.G part of the DBS manga was 4 chapters and his R.o.F movie adaptation manga was 3 chapters), and we say that the T.o.P arc ends next chapter or the chapter after that, Toyo will be 6 to 7 chapters into the next story. And the DBS manga chapter content ranges from 2 to 4 episodes worth.

We can argue to the ends of the Earth what should or shouldn't be in the ToP to make for a smoother story, that's not really my battle to fight. But the point stands that more of it had to go than what has so far. It's been a clusterfuck.

As for the "Toyo just needs time to breathe and more freedom" sentiment, I think that his previous work is a perfect example of that. It's not like the guy has never done anything before. I've seen his DBAF and Victory mission, and I'm not impressed. They've got better paneling, but just feel slightly lifeless and bland most of the time, making little effort to actually be stories with themes or progression, something the DBS manga continues. Toyo did a decent enough job following Toriyama's outlines for most of the series, but as soon as the FT arc ended things took a drop, and as soon as the ToP itself started it's been a nosedive. It's not much of a "wait and see" when we've been waiting and have only seen things get worse.

[Terez]

No, It's a known fact that the writing for the DB Super manga is better than the anime's. The anime has [will always] better visuals.

A "known fact", huh. Yikes. You know people aren't somehow retroactively convincing themselves that they didn't enjoy something they actually did, right? As if that were even possible?

To be fair, it is possible. It happens all the time: someone realizes in retrospect that they actually never liked or always liked x thing they had previously thought they did or did not like, because they were influenced by outside factor y. It's very much a thing and it is a thing that has been studied. (It's not very useful to bring it up in debates, though, and words like "known fact" should only be used for actual known facts, and this ain't it.)

[RecolorSaiyan]

Why does this thread always turn into manga vs anime? There’s a separate thread for that.

[Shaddy]

To be fair, it is possible. It happens all the time: someone realizes in retrospect that they actually never liked or always liked x thing they had previously thought they did or did not like, because they were influenced by outside factor y. It's very much a thing and it is a thing that has been studied. (It's not very useful to bring it up in debates, though, and words like "known fact" should only be used for actual known facts, and this ain't it.)

Okay, fair. I'm just trying to say that most people who prefer the anime over the manga aren't lying as part of an evil conspiracy against Toyotaro or sometihng.

[AnimeNation101]

To be fair, it is possible. It happens all the time: someone realizes in retrospect that they actually never liked or always liked x thing they had previously thought they did or did not like, because they were influenced by outside factor y. It's very much a thing and it is a thing that has been studied. (It's not very useful to bring it up in debates, though, and words like "known fact" should only be used for actual known facts, and this ain't it.)

Okay, fair. I'm just trying to say that most people who prefer the anime over the manga aren't lying as part of an evil conspiracy against Toyotaro or sometihng.

Word. But tbh, its more just wishful thinking that the T.o.P manga’s main problem is pacing and that Toyotaro is being sped up. Because if it was, it can be fixed. But if Toyotaro just really isn’t that good an artist or writer, and then if my theory comes true and his manga has a significant headstart on the new DBS story content and since the manga is ahead, the anime might use it as reference, the future of DBS aint lookin to good chief (sorry for using the chief but i had to).

[PFM18]

Doesn't seem like toyble can handle the schedule either considering how trash his writing is

No, It's a known fact that the writing for the DB Super manga is better than the anime's. The anime has [will always] better visuals.

A known fact? Are you sure you know what that means? Something as inherently subjective as writing quality cannot legitimately be deemed a "known fact" dude. I for one, am of the opinion that the anime has exponentially better writing.

[Shaddy]

Word. But tbh, its more just wishful thinking that the T.o.P manga’s main problem is pacing and that Toyotaro is being sped up. Because if it was, it can be fixed. But if Toyotaro just really isn’t that good an artist or writer, and then if my theory comes true and his manga has a significant headstart on the new DBS story content and since the manga is ahead, the anime might use it as reference, the future of DBS aint lookin to good chief (sorry for using the chief but i had to).

You definitely don't need to worry about that. They don't have any real reason to be doing things differently than what worked for Super's original TV run, especially not with the PR nightmare Toyotaro got for the Captain America trace and the general impressions of the manga being less-than-stellar as of recent. Even if the manga got ahead, I think it and the anime are always just going to continue having things that they take from one another and neither is ever going to be perfectly superior, nor are Toriyama's story beats always gonna be perfect.

As for Toyotaro, he's not an awful artist, he just needs someone to actually communicate his issues to him to improve. Putting in too much effort and having things come out kind of messy is better than putting in too LITTLE and having a clearly lazy and broken product. Maybe hire an editor with higher standards than Toriyama himself, maybe give the manga a break for a while and let him work on something smaller or with a more direct focus on improving his skills and experience as a mangaka specifically, something like that. Do a spinoff or something, let Lee or Ooishi work on the series for a while, it'd be good to see them with more exposure anyway.

[Rakurai]

Doesn't seem like toyble can handle the schedule either considering how trash his writing is

Is calling him by his previous pen name supposed to be an insult? What dumb shit, grow up you poor, sad joker of a poster.

As for Toyotaro, he's not an awful artist, he just needs someone to actually communicate his issues to him to improve. Putting in too much effort and having things come out kind of messy is better than putting in too LITTLE and having a clearly lazy and broken product. Maybe hire an editor with higher standards than Toriyama himself, maybe give the manga a break for a while and let him work on something smaller or with a more direct focus on improving his skills and experience as a mangaka specifically, something like that. Do a spinoff or something, let Lee or Ooishi work on the series for a while, it'd be good to see them with more exposure anyway.

He did work on a spin-off, it's called DBH Victory Mission and it's what allowed him to transition into the Super manga.

While Lee's storytelling may be promising and his artwork quite good, he doesn't have the experience of working a monthly manga with tight deadlines. His Yamcha spinoff took ~9 months to finish, three chapters with the length of ~30 pages each chapter. He's the one who needs to work on a monthly or bi-monthly spinoff first to show he can handle regular workloads.

Ooishi, I think she's more adept since she's published in Saikyo Jump but her artstyle based on SD just isn't suited for main DB. And while she may be able to draw DB in a more standard format as opposed to a gag format, it's not easy to transition between styles after working on SD for so long.

Nagayama, on the other hand. He's got real promise. The SDBH manga has been nothing short of entertaining and amazing but his artwork could use more polishing. The way he draws SSJ4 forms though is lit, better than Toyotaro imo.

Ultimately, Shueisha has settled on Toyotaro to work on the main series and the Super manga has been selling well. He does need somebody else other than Toriyama to supervise him, it would be terrible to see his artstyle devolve into Toriyama's modern stick artstyle. And he needs to stop referencing the original manga so often, or stop chasing after the original manga as Toriyama put it.

[Noitsnothim]

So Yeah...Here's a couple of things I hope to see in the film and beyond (possibly)
1. Broly has an actual personality and isn't just a meathead when he goes full power (Hope he's pretty evil)
2. Goku and Vegeta individual fights with Broly to be very impressive and in the style of Z (with Blood)
3. Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo to actually be useful rather than sideline characters
4. Vegeta & Broly to be 3-5 years older than Goku and Some Vegeta & Bulma moments
5. Goku dies at the hands of Broly
6. Paragus gets killed by Freeza which sets off Broly to go Full Power
7. Full Powered Broly vs. True Golden Freeza
8. Jiren and Hit make an appearance showing that they're training to get stronger now that Goku is the talk of the town
9. Broly's full powered form's ki is felt throughout the multiverse and disturbs Jiren like in the tournament of power when Kefla turned Super saiyan 1 or 2 I believe
10. Bardock and King Vegeta (Individually) Rebel against Freeza
11. Beerus gets smacked by Broly into a nearby Block of Ice (since they'll be in an ice area of earth)
12. Possible plot point for a future arc involving the exempted Universes' Gods of Destruction wanting Son Goku to be wiped from existence as they view him as a possible threat (since he is the first known mortal to achieve UI they think he'll want to fight them all and put them out of commision) also they start to believe that Saiyans could pose as an actual threat as their powers transcend normal growths of strength and potential than most mortal civilizations throughout the multiverse (I'd call it WAR OF THE GODS)

[Shaddy]

He did work on a spin-off, it's called DBH Victory Mission and it's what allowed him to transition into the Super manga.

I know, I mentioned it earlier. I don't think that's enough, I really disliked it, I think he was put on Super too early.

While Lee's storytelling may be promising and his artwork quite good, he doesn't have the experience of working a monthly manga with tight deadlines. His Yamcha spinoff took ~9 months to finish, three chapters with the length of ~30 pages each chapter. He's the one who needs to work on a monthly or bi-monthly spinoff first to show he can handle regular workloads.

Okay, let him do that. Hell, make Toriyama take a bigger workload with the story and just have all these different artists rotate out on drawing the chapters themselves, I don't know. But let everyone do more than what they've been doing except Toyotaro.

Ooishi, I think she's more adept since she's published in Saikyo Jump but her artstyle based on SD just isn't suited for main DB. And while she may be able to draw DB in a more standard format as opposed to a gag format, it's not easy to transition between styles after working on SD for so long.

She drew (and wrote, ugh) the Episode of Bardock manga as well as a bunch of doujins (some comedy, some porn, some both), so it's not like we haven't seen her regular DB art or anything. I think she's probably still okay at it, SD just looks that way because it has to.

Nagayama, on the other hand. He's got real promise. The SDBH manga has been nothing short of entertaining and amazing but his artwork could use more polishing. The way he draws SSJ4 forms though is lit, better than Toyotaro imo.

I actually like his art way better than Toyo. His characters are definitely in a different style, with a lot of thicker lines and soft curves, but it's very dynamic and readable. He definitely deserves better than to be stuck on Heroes.

[Miracles]

[If he could do that then he would have done it from the start. You're reading into it

Goku couldn't do it from the start because he needed to be reminded of his past teaching principles. Once he realized this he accessed UI on his own through poise.

No, It's a known fact that the writing for the DB Super manga is better than the anime's. The anime has [will always] better visuals.

A "known fact", huh. Yikes. You know people aren't somehow retroactively convincing themselves that they didn't enjoy something they actually did, right? As if that were even possible?

Doesn't matter about one enjoying it or not. It's about coherency and keeping continuity. The Super manga does it better than the anime.

Doesn't seem like toyble can handle the schedule either considering how trash his writing is

No, It's a known fact that the writing for the DB Super manga is better than the anime's. The anime has [will always] better visuals.

A known fact? Are you sure you know what that means? Something as inherently subjective as writing quality cannot legitimately be deemed a "known fact" dude. I for one, am of the opinion that the anime has exponentially better writing.

You show me where the anime keeps continuity from the OG Dragonball better than the manga?

[PFM18]

You show me where the anime keeps continuity from the OG Dragonball better than the manga?

You're kind of missing the point. In my opinion the anime has better writing. You claim that it is somehow an undeniable fact that the manga has better writing, but given the subjective nature of it, it is not a fact.

Then you seem to want to trivialize the writing's quality to just encompass it's cohesiveness with the original Dragon Ball.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Why does this thread always turn into manga vs anime? There’s a separate thread for that.

This thread turns into a lot of things. I am just waiting for it to turn into a sexy fan art thread at this point!