Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Son-Kakaroto]

Yeah, unfortunately that looks like the case. Unless in the actual movie he is using SSBE but they didn't want to spoil that in the trailer. I don't know, I still have hope

Why do you care so much if ssbE is in the movie? All that means is the show is going to re-tell the arc once it comes back and the movie will be its own continuity, seperate from the manga, and in likelhood the returining anime....

Because if Vegeta achieves a new super powerful form that allows him to defeat a God of Destruction, and then inconspicuously doesn't use it in the next story arc, that's a problem. It fucks with the continuity of things especially when it comes to power scaling.

If they do an anime retelling though this won't be a problem. They could also add the other half of Toriyama's scirpt in there too.

Exactly, if kaioken and evolution does not appear, then it shows there is going to be a re-telling when the anime comes back. And plus, the anime usually makes the best arc across all mediums (except RoF even though it's not the worst since one medium didn't even do it LOL) so it'll work out for the better. Also, tv show broly is going to be even stronger and more formidable then movie broly or puny-pie manga broly, because, I'd assume, evolution and kaioken x 20 won't be enough. Heck, maybe even MUI won't be enough... who knows. Can't wait for the anime to return! It's been too long. I need some good dragon ball.

[RecolorSaiyan]

>continuity of things concerning powerscaling

Aka something toriyama gives 0 shits about. Its been made VERY clear broly is stronger than ANYONE they've ever fought before, his method of defeat will be the same in all versions. If you need to know he's 250 times stronger than ssb goku or whatever than thats your/my issue not toriyama's

[Son-Kakaroto]

>continuity of things concerning powerscaling

Aka something toriyama gives 0 shits about. Its been made VERY clear broly is stronger than ANYONE they've ever fought before, his method of defeat will be the same in all versions. If you need to know he's 250 times stronger than ssb goku or whatever than thats your/my issue not toriyama's

That's exactly why we have power scailing in the first place. If the author does not state who's stronger, we have to investigate via feats, calc, science, statements and all credible evidence of who's stronger then who and by how much.

[RecolorSaiyan]

>continuity of things concerning powerscaling

Aka something toriyama gives 0 shits about. Its been made VERY clear broly is stronger than ANYONE they've ever fought before, his method of defeat will be the same in all versions. If you need to know he's 250 times stronger than ssb goku or whatever than thats your/my issue not toriyama's

That's exactly why we have power scailing in the first place. If the author does not state who's stronger, we have to investigate via feats, calc, science, statements and all credible evidence of who's stronger then who and by how much.

They've literally stated Broly is "the strongest enemy ever faced". It can't get more clearer than that.

What do you want? Toriyama to come out and say Broly (FP) is 23.4% stronger than Jiren? Cause thats never going to happen.

Lets say hypothetically the SSB Gogeta barely beats Broly to end the movie, that should make is abundantly clear that neither goku or vegeta alone could have beaten him and apply that to kkx20 and ssbe and probably even UI (which he can't use at will at this moment)

[Son-Kakaroto]

>continuity of things concerning powerscaling

Aka something toriyama gives 0 shits about. Its been made VERY clear broly is stronger than ANYONE they've ever fought before, his method of defeat will be the same in all versions. If you need to know he's 250 times stronger than ssb goku or whatever than thats your/my issue not toriyama's

That's exactly why we have power scailing in the first place. If the author does not state who's stronger, we have to investigate via feats, calc, science, statements and all credible evidence of who's stronger then who and by how much.

They've literally stated Broly is "the strongest enemy ever faced". It can't get more clearer than that.

What do you want? Toriyama to come out and say Broly (FP) is 23.4% stronger than Jiren? Cause thats never going to happen.

Lets say hypothetically the SSB Gogeta barely beats Broly to end the movie, that should make is abundantly clear that neither goku or vegeta alone could have beaten him and apply that to kkx20 and ssbe and probably even UI (which he can't use at will at this moment)

The creators of the show can be wrong and/or bias if what the product they produce is contradictory to their statment. Look at creator of broly saying he's stronger then jenenmba when that obviously isn't true. So it seems broly may be stronger then Jiren, but we have to see the movie, first.

[RecolorSaiyan]

That's exactly why we have power scailing in the first place. If the author does not state who's stronger, we have to investigate via feats, calc, science, statements and all credible evidence of who's stronger then who and by how much.

They've literally stated Broly is "the strongest enemy ever faced". It can't get more clearer than that.

What do you want? Toriyama to come out and say Broly (FP) is 23.4% stronger than Jiren? Cause thats never going to happen.

Lets say hypothetically the SSB Gogeta barely beats Broly to end the movie, that should make is abundantly clear that neither goku or vegeta alone could have beaten him and apply that to kkx20 and ssbe and probably even UI (which he can't use at will at this moment)

The creators of the show can be wrong and/or bias if what the product they produce is contradictory to their statment. Look at creator of broly saying he's stronger then jenenmba when that obviously isn't true. So it seems broly may be stronger then Jiren, but we have to see the movie, first.

Well the proof will be in the pudding, it will be very clear if he's stronger than jiren either by statements or feats (maybe he trashes UI Goku). SSB KK and SSBE wouldn't prove anything anyways since a heavily suppressed jiren trashed both of those

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

They've literally stated Broly is "the strongest enemy ever faced". It can't get more clearer than that.

What do you want? Toriyama to come out and say Broly (FP) is 23.4% stronger than Jiren? Cause thats never going to happen.

Lets say hypothetically the SSB Gogeta barely beats Broly to end the movie, that should make is abundantly clear that neither goku or vegeta alone could have beaten him and apply that to kkx20 and ssbe and probably even UI (which he can't use at will at this moment)

The creators of the show can be wrong and/or bias if what the product they produce is contradictory to their statment. Look at creator of broly saying he's stronger then jenenmba when that obviously isn't true. So it seems broly may be stronger then Jiren, but we have to see the movie, first.

Well the proof will be in the pudding, it will be very clear if he's stronger than jiren either by statements or feats (maybe he trashes UI Goku). SSB KK and SSBE wouldn't prove anything anyways since a heavily suppressed jiren trashed both of those

To be fair, through numbers alone, Jiren seems to be much more ferocious than Broly even factoring in a hypothetical SSB Gogeta without even accounting for his full power. And that's STILL missing the fact that Jiren became EVEN STRONGER than this.

Kaioken kinda helped showcase just how much stronger Jiren was; it was by a WIDE margin.

[Marlowe89]

To be fair, through numbers alone, Jiren seems to be much more ferocious than Broly even factoring in a hypothetical SSB Gogeta without even accounting for his full power. And that's STILL missing the fact that Jiren became EVEN STRONGER than this.

Kaioken kinda helped showcase just how much stronger Jiren was; it was by a WIDE margin.

I think you're missing his point.

We don't need specific numbers and multipliers to illustrate how characters compare to each other. Literally all they have to do is say that Broly is the strongest enemy they've ever fought, and bam, Jiren is instantly outclassed. Kaioken isn't necessary to confirm this in the slightest.

[RecolorSaiyan]

For the sake of the movie, I think its fine to view SSB Goku = anime kkx20 and ssb vegeta = anime ssbe or manga cssb, whatever you want. Its their full power and with it they are closing in on GoD level but not quite there yet

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

To be fair, through numbers alone, Jiren seems to be much more ferocious than Broly even factoring in a hypothetical SSB Gogeta without even accounting for his full power. And that's STILL missing the fact that Jiren became EVEN STRONGER than this.

Kaioken kinda helped showcase just how much stronger Jiren was; it was by a WIDE margin.

I think you're missing his point.

We don't need specific numbers and multipliers to illustrate how characters compare to each other. Literally all they have to do is say that Broly is the strongest enemy they've ever fought, and bam, Jiren is instantly outclassed. Kaioken isn't necessary to confirm this in the slightest.

Thus far, though, he's shown nothing to compare, numerically or feats wise, to trump Jiren. Plus, you're one to not take marketing hype at face value.

I think the exclusion of the anime's "ramping up effect" with pumping bigger numbers and ideas into the story works against Broly's power level hype as "the strongest there is", since standard SSB and Metamoran Fusion are being used, rather than elevated powers like Potara Fusion SSB's further evolutions.

[RecolorSaiyan]

Nagamine said Goku was quickly approaching the level of gods and Vegeta was trying to catch up. While I agree that visually broly hasn’t been shown to be above Jiren since we are used to kk and blue evol, I think the movie will make it clear that ssb Goku and Vegeta are nearing hakaishin Level and broly trashing them will have context that allows us to put him over Jiren

[Marlowe89]

Plus, you're one to not take marketing hype at face value.

I'm talking about a hypothetical statement that the movie might include, not "marketing hype" or whatever. If something like that is presented within the story's dialogue, that's as clear-cut as it possibly gets; more so than visual feats, even, since those tend to be more subjectively extrapolated.

Numbers and fancy ramp-ups are fine in discussions only when it isn't already spelled out by the story. Nobody thinks Jiren is stronger than his God of Destruction because of any match between the two, we think that because that's what the dialogue confirms.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

To preface things going forward, I'm not opposed to the idea of Broly being stronger than Jiren. Sure, I don't personally like it, but it's not like I'm gonna pronounce that this idea never should've been done and no longer exists in my mind.

However, I want to be SHOWN and TOLD that he's stronger than Jiren. I don't want to go in believing he's definitely stronger. I want him to PROVE he's stronger. Thus far, nothing's sold me definitively.

[OhHiRenan]

The law of Dragon Ball kind of dictates the next antagonist ultimately be stronger than the last. I’d love to be proved wrong, though.

[prince212]

The law of Dragon Ball kind of dictates the next antagonist ultimately be stronger than the last. I’d love to be proved wrong, though.

Somebody tell me another series that doesn’t follow that law . It’s just natural

[OhHiRenan]

The law of Dragon Ball kind of dictates the next antagonist ultimately be stronger than the last. I’d love to be proved wrong, though.

Somebody tell me another series that doesn’t follow that law . It’s just natural

I had originally written the law of Shonen, but I admittedly am not as familiar with other franchises as I am Dragon Ball so I didn’t want to generalize.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The law of Dragon Ball kind of dictates the next antagonist ultimately be stronger than the last. I’d love to be proved wrong, though.

Although it likely wasn't the intent at the time, Beerus ending up as strong as he did "sorta" broke the mold.

[PFM18]

The law of Dragon Ball kind of dictates the next antagonist ultimately be stronger than the last. I’d love to be proved wrong, though.

Beerus being the exception

[TheSaiyanGod]

For the sake of the movie, I think its fine to view SSB Goku = anime kkx20 and ssb vegeta = anime ssbe or manga cssb, whatever you want. Its their full power and with it they are closing in on GoD level but not quite there yet

I don't think they will put Goku and Vegeta SSB on the same level as anime KK x20 and SSBE. Probably they will just completely ignore the two forms (there would have to be something that would prove that level of the two). In that case, it would still be valid to consider for comparisons Goku SSB KK and Vegeta SSBE as stronger than their SSB versions of the film

I do not know if it's something obvious, but a hypothetical Gogeta SSB is 20x stronger than Goku and Vegeta SSB individually? The Metamoru fusion is not as strong as Potara

[ankokudaishogun]

Fusion Dance is not as strong As Potara but it's still greater than the sum of the parts. See Goten+Trunks=SS3 Gotenks