Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[BrolyKale]

1. The whole "Vegeta doesn't care about his race" claim has been debunked multiple times already:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=43021&p=1551129#p1551129

2. Whis has personally intervened in the show's main conflicts. Remember RoF when Whis turned back time so that Goku could kill Freeza before he blows up the Earth? That removes any tension and consequence for the story, and lets not forget the fact that Whis can bring people back to life on the spot (like he did to Freeza after the ToP). So yes, having Whis around at all in the Broly film is a big problem.

No. It really hasn't been debunked lmao. It hasn't been debunked at all. Super Vegeta has cared about these 3 things over all 1) Not being surpassed by Goku 2)Family 3) The POTENTIAL of his people.

Look at the Battle of Gods arc. Look at every Super Arc. Vegeta cares about the power and potential. He trains Cabba to help him get stronger because he views him as pathetic otherwise. See how easily I can make counterclaims and call your points 'debunked'? There's several in plot clues to show he cares more about the power of the Saiyans more than anything. He cares about superiority.

When has Whis actively fought somebody...? He rewound time to teach Goku a lesson to stop being so non-chalant and he's made it clear he wouldn't do it again. He wants Goku and Vegeta to replace Beerus. It's why he's training them to begin with. THAT is his interest in them, even if they say they don't wish to be GoDs

Yes, it has been debunked. You failed to address any of my arguments in the link. Why would Vegeta beg Goku to avenge them in the Namek arc, be so eager to go visit Planet Sadala and wish them back in the ToP arc if he only cared about their "potential"? You are not making any logical sense and are really just projecting you biases on the topic. Even Ryo Horikawa himself thinks that Vegeta would want to kill Beerus if he finds out that Beerus ordered Planet Vegeta's destruction: https://youtu.be/pBHGXBBZeas?t=2034

Whis rewinding time at all is a problem. It negated any conflict and consequences from the RoF story line and made an already bad film even worse. Whis doing anything at all to help Goku & Vegeta fight Broly is a problem for the movie because of his abilities. There is no defending this, its a tension killer.

They are not using Whis on every occasion to the point where it kills the tension.

[CTAkuma]

No. It really hasn't been debunked lmao. It hasn't been debunked at all. Super Vegeta has cared about these 3 things over all 1) Not being surpassed by Goku 2)Family 3) The POTENTIAL of his people.

Look at the Battle of Gods arc. Look at every Super Arc. Vegeta cares about the power and potential. He trains Cabba to help him get stronger because he views him as pathetic otherwise. See how easily I can make counterclaims and call your points 'debunked'? There's several in plot clues to show he cares more about the power of the Saiyans more than anything. He cares about superiority.

When has Whis actively fought somebody...? He rewound time to teach Goku a lesson to stop being so non-chalant and he's made it clear he wouldn't do it again. He wants Goku and Vegeta to replace Beerus. It's why he's training them to begin with. THAT is his interest in them, even if they say they don't wish to be GoDs

Yes, it has been debunked. You failed to address any of my arguments in the link. Why would Vegeta beg Goku to avenge them in the Namek arc, be so eager to go visit Planet Sadala and wish them back in the ToP arc if he only cared about their "potential"? You are not making any logical sense and are really just projecting you biases on the topic. Even Ryo Horikawa himself thinks that Vegeta would want to kill Beerus if he finds out that Beerus ordered Planet Vegeta's destruction: https://youtu.be/pBHGXBBZeas?t=2034

Whis rewinding time at all is a problem. It negated any conflict and consequences from the RoF story line and made an already bad film even worse. Whis doing anything at all to help Goku & Vegeta fight Broly is a problem for the movie because of his abilities. There is no defending this, its a tension killer.

They are not using Whis on every occasion to the point to kill the tension.

Yet he has been present in all three movies and it was made clear he was the strongest out of any of them in U7

[Mercenary]

Well, despite having several things that I would like to see in this movie that probably will not happen, I really want to know about Vegeta's participation in this movie.

It would be best not to create any kind of expectation for things related to Vegeta in the film, mainly due to the trailers, his participation in other films and in the anime (although still better than most other Z fighters), but one of the producers said that this movie was a change of pace for him because before he was just beaten and used for jokes (suggesting that his role would be different now), and Bulma's new voice actor said he had a cool scene that fans should expect.

Yes, it's very subjective, but I'm really curious about what it's going to do differently this time around. No new transformations, but maybe a decent fight with Broly? I don't know

They probably just meant Vegeta getting to beat Broly as a part of Gogeta. He got his ass kicked but Goku got his ass kicked as well, so there's nothing wrong with that.

[BrolyKale]

Yet he has been present in all three movies and it was made clear he was the strongest out of any of them in U7

Maybe, but the power of the angels is counterbalanced by their duty to not fight in a real battle so... it's not really a problem.

[AnimeNation101]

Vegeta cares about his race but not enough to with them back to life. And also not enough to want to kill Beerus in cold blood. Thats my stance. The saiyans were a bunch of savages will evil hearts. Vegeta knows that so why would he wish them back? And its Beerus’s job to destroy, on top of the fact that the saiyans were evil.

If Vegeta really cared THAT much about the saiyans, he would have tried to wish them back by now. He cared more about getting immortality than wishing his race or even parents back. And you cant use the excuse that Porunga or Shenron couldn’t do that since they’ve been dead for too long, Vegeta never knew about that rule at the time anyway. And once Dende was the new dragonball creator, he could have wished them back then since clearly the “if you’ve been dead for more than a year rule” didn’t apply since Freeza was able to come back. And of course, he could have used Bulma’s radar to search for the Super Dragon balls to bring back his race or parents but he didn’t. And going off of the End of Z, as far as we know, unless its retconned, he won’t ever do it.

And to connect this into the movie, they’d have to give a damn good reason for why Vegeta would want to bring back his race he actually does as some random, wtf surprise.

1. The Super Dragonballs argument doesn't work, because they are scattered across the mulitverse and neither Vegeta nor Bulma have any way of crossing between different universes.

2. Neither Shenron nor Porunga could bring back a large group of people that have been dead for over a year. That rule had been established since Raditz came around and has never been retconned.

3. Vegeta isn't a moralistic person and likely still doesn't care if most of the U7 Saiyans are evil savages (neither would Goku in fact. Remember, this is the same guy that's willing let dangerous, mass murdering villains like Freeza live just so he could fight them again.) Even in GT, Vegeta showed absolutely no remorse nor shame for what the Saiyans were in the past when Baby confronted him about, so why would he be in Super?

You can respond but did you even TRY to read my post?

For one, thats not a good excuse. The SDBs are only scattered between Universe 6 and 7 and we know that Capsule Corp can create spaceship tech. Or Vegeta could just use the space cube for Beerus and Whis. If he really cared about the saiyans or his parents enough to resurrect them, he would have done all that but he didn’t because he doesn’t care that much about them

For that second point, first off, that info is wrong. Because in the Namek saga, Porunga was able to revive all the killed Namekians and in the Buu saga, Porunga was able bring back all the people killed by Buu in the Buu arc. And again, already explained why this whole excuse of yours doesn’t work.

Sure, Shenron and Porunga cant bring back people dead for more than a certain amount of time and Shenron specifically cant bring back multiple people at once, but at the time of the saiyan and namek saga, Vegeta never knew about that rule. So as far as he knew, if he wanted to, he COULD have brought back the saiyan race or his parents. But he instead chose to go for immortality. So that again shows that he doesn’t care enough about his family or race to wish them back.

And as for your last point, I'm sorry but you must not have seen DBS or Vegeta after the Buu arc. He’s definitely moralistic. Heck, Super confirmed Vegeta was pure of heart. OF COURSE he wouldn’t wish back a race of savages that are a danger to the universe and even his own family on Earth. It was established after Vegeta’s Final atonement in the Buu saga that Vegeta was a changed man.

And GT Vegeta ain’t relevant anymore. We’re talking about DBS Vegeta because thats the Vegeta apart of the main continuity. GT Vegeta’s character is invalid evidence for the character of Vegeta in DBS as they dont even exist are apart of the same continuity.

And again, thats exactly why the thought of Vegeta wishing back his race is more fanservice straight out of a fanfic. And there’s no reason to even bring them back in the first place. All it would do is cause more harm than good.

[AnimeNation101]

Yet he has been present in all three movies and it was made clear he was the strongest out of any of them in U7

Maybe, but the power of the angels is counterbalanced by their duty to not fight in a real battle so... it's not really a problem.

The way i see it is, they’ve made it a point that Whis ain’t supposed to interfere.

In R.o.F messed with time and changed the outcome of a battle and fate of a planet all caused by mortal affairs. It had nothing to do with him and he interfered

In this movie, he’s interfering in mortal affairs by stalling Broly as far as we know

And with how bullshit Whis is now with time rewinding and resurrection on top of how OP he is, the fact that we know nothing is stopping him from interfering, that takes away tension.

[WittyUsername]

No. It really hasn't been debunked lmao. It hasn't been debunked at all. Super Vegeta has cared about these 3 things over all 1) Not being surpassed by Goku 2)Family 3) The POTENTIAL of his people.

Look at the Battle of Gods arc. Look at every Super Arc. Vegeta cares about the power and potential. He trains Cabba to help him get stronger because he views him as pathetic otherwise. See how easily I can make counterclaims and call your points 'debunked'? There's several in plot clues to show he cares more about the power of the Saiyans more than anything. He cares about superiority.

When has Whis actively fought somebody...? He rewound time to teach Goku a lesson to stop being so non-chalant and he's made it clear he wouldn't do it again. He wants Goku and Vegeta to replace Beerus. It's why he's training them to begin with. THAT is his interest in them, even if they say they don't wish to be GoDs

Yes, it has been debunked. You failed to address any of my arguments in the link. Why would Vegeta beg Goku to avenge them in the Namek arc, be so eager to go visit Planet Sadala and wish them back in the ToP arc if he only cared about their "potential"? You are not making any logical sense and are really just projecting you biases on the topic. Even Ryo Horikawa himself thinks that Vegeta would want to kill Beerus if he finds out that Beerus ordered Planet Vegeta's destruction: https://youtu.be/pBHGXBBZeas?t=2034

Whis rewinding time at all is a problem. It negated any conflict and consequences from the RoF story line and made an already bad film even worse. Whis doing anything at all to help Goku & Vegeta fight Broly is a problem for the movie because of his abilities. There is no defending this, its a tension killer.

They are not using Whis on every occasion to the point where it kills the tension.

Going by what I’ve heard, I’d say Whis’ role in this movie does sound like a tension killer. A lack of any true sense of tension was just one of the many I had with Ressurection ‘F’, and I’m worried that this movie will more or less be a repeat of that.

[BrolyKale]

Yet he has been present in all three movies and it was made clear he was the strongest out of any of them in U7

Maybe, but the power of the angels is counterbalanced by their duty to not fight in a real battle so... it's not really a problem.

The way i see it is, they’ve made it a point that Whis ain’t supposed to interfere.

In R.o.F messed with time and changed the outcome of a battle and fate of a planet all caused by mortal affairs. It had nothing to do with him and he interfered

In this movie, he’s interfering in mortal affairs by stalling Broly as far as we know

And with how bullshit Whis is now with time rewinding and resurrection on top of how OP he is, the fact that we know nothing is stopping him from interfering, that takes away tension.

The way I see it is, that angels just do not have the right to interfere in major events in their universe, or physically end a fight or kill someone, etc. I think it's more about a "physical neutrality" or "neutrality in terms of battle".

[zarmack]

Vegeta cares about his race but not enough to with them back to life. And also not enough to want to kill Beerus in cold blood. Thats my stance. The saiyans were a bunch of savages will evil hearts. Vegeta knows that so why would he wish them back? And its Beerus’s job to destroy, on top of the fact that the saiyans were evil.

If Vegeta really cared THAT much about the saiyans, he would have tried to wish them back by now. He cared more about getting immortality than wishing his race or even parents back. And you cant use the excuse that Porunga or Shenron couldn’t do that since they’ve been dead for too long, Vegeta never knew about that rule at the time anyway. And once Dende was the new dragonball creator, he could have wished them back then since clearly the “if you’ve been dead for more than a year rule” didn’t apply since Freeza was able to come back. And of course, he could have used Bulma’s radar to search for the Super Dragon balls to bring back his race or parents but he didn’t. And going off of the End of Z, as far as we know, unless its retconned, he won’t ever do it.

And to connect this into the movie, they’d have to give a damn good reason for why Vegeta would want to bring back his race he actually does as some random, wtf surprise.

1. The Super Dragonballs argument doesn't work, because they are scattered across the mulitverse and neither Vegeta nor Bulma have any way of crossing between different universes.

2. Neither Shenron nor Porunga could bring back a large group of people that have been dead for over a year. That rule had been established since Raditz came around and has never been retconned.

3. Vegeta isn't a moralistic person and likely still doesn't care if most of the U7 Saiyans are evil savages (neither would Goku in fact. Remember, this is the same guy that's willing let dangerous, mass murdering villains like Freeza live just so he could fight them again.) Even in GT, Vegeta showed absolutely no remorse nor shame for what the Saiyans were in the past when Baby confronted him about, so why would he be in Super?

You can respond but did you even TRY to read my post?

For one, thats not a good excuse. The SDBs are only scattered between Universe 6 and 7 and we know that Capsule Corp can create spaceship tech. Or Vegeta could just use the space cube for Beerus and Whis. If he really cared about the saiyans or his parents enough to resurrect them, he would have done all that but he didn’t because he doesn’t care that much about them

For that second point, first off, that info is wrong. Because in the Namek saga, Porunga was able to revive all the killed Namekians and in the Buu saga, Porunga was able bring back all the people killed by Buu in the Buu arc. And again, already explained why this whole excuse of yours doesn’t work.

Sure, Shenron and Porunga cant bring back people dead for more than a certain amount of time and Shenron specifically cant bring back multiple people at once, but at the time of the saiyan and namek saga, Vegeta never knew about that rule. So as far as he knew, if he wanted to, he COULD have brought back the saiyan race or his parents. But he instead chose to go for immortality. So that again shows that he doesn’t care enough about his family or race to wish them back.

And as for your last point, I'm sorry but you must not have seen DBS or Vegeta after the Buu arc. He’s definitely moralistic. Heck, Super confirmed Vegeta was pure of heart. OF COURSE he wouldn’t wish back a race of savages that are a danger to the universe and even his own family on Earth. It was established after Vegeta’s Final atonement in the Buu saga that Vegeta was a changed man.

And GT Vegeta ain’t relevant anymore. We’re talking about DBS Vegeta because thats the Vegeta apart of the main continuity. GT Vegeta’s character is invalid evidence for the character of Vegeta in DBS as they dont even exist are apart of the same continuity.

And again, thats exactly why the thought of Vegeta wishing back his race is more fanservice straight out of a fanfic. And there’s no reason to even bring them back in the first place. All it would do is cause more harm than good.

1. The SDBs were stated to scatter across the entire multiverse after use. The only reason most were in U6 during the Champa arc is because Champa had collected most of them before the tournament began. Bulma doesn't have the technology to travel across universes (she can't even travel to the afterlife in U7 with her tech). And Why would Beerus or Whis give Vegeta a space cube? Those things are rare, privileged objects that even Hit couldn't get from Vados.

2. This argument has been ran to the ground so many times that its redundant to debunk it again.

3. No, Vegeta isn't moralistic at all in Super. He has never expressed any remorse or shame about the U7 Saiyans in Super at all (same with GT), nor does he seem to care about justice, forgiveness or any of that (like Gohan and Future Trunks do). And he isn't pure of heart at all (you have to be born with it remember? Only the Son family males are pure of heart, Vegeta can't ride the Nimbus like they can). So you are just projecting your biases there.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well, despite having several things that I would like to see in this movie that probably will not happen, I really want to know about Vegeta's participation in this movie.

It would be best not to create any kind of expectation for things related to Vegeta in the film, mainly due to the trailers, his participation in other films and in the anime (although still better than most other Z fighters), but one of the producers said that this movie was a change of pace for him because before he was just beaten and used for jokes (suggesting that his role would be different now), and Bulma's new voice actor said he had a cool scene that fans should expect.

Yes, it's very subjective, but I'm really curious about what it's going to do differently this time around. No new transformations, but maybe a decent fight with Broly? I don't know

They probably just meant Vegeta getting to beat Broly as a part of Gogeta. He got his ass kicked but Goku got his ass kicked as well, so there's nothing wrong with that.

I do not know if '' Vegeta is very cool in the movie '' means being beaten in different transformations until he merges with another guy at the end and defeats the villain quickly (at least individually it would not be cool).

The producer basically defined Vegeta's entire participation before the movie as being 'beaten and serving for jokes,' even though with Vegetto appearing once, so I assume Vegeta will at least do something cool in the fight. Like I said, it's a bit subjective what he said, but I expect it to be really cool (without creating too many expectations)

[RecolorSaiyan]

Remember Episode 128? Toshio said he wrote a "cool vegeta"

that line about vegeta in the movie is just marketing fluff to get fans excited and drive interest. nothing more

[AnimeNation101]

1. The Super Dragonballs argument doesn't work, because they are scattered across the mulitverse and neither Vegeta nor Bulma have any way of crossing between different universes.

2. Neither Shenron nor Porunga could bring back a large group of people that have been dead for over a year. That rule had been established since Raditz came around and has never been retconned.

3. Vegeta isn't a moralistic person and likely still doesn't care if most of the U7 Saiyans are evil savages (neither would Goku in fact. Remember, this is the same guy that's willing let dangerous, mass murdering villains like Freeza live just so he could fight them again.) Even in GT, Vegeta showed absolutely no remorse nor shame for what the Saiyans were in the past when Baby confronted him about, so why would he be in Super?

You can respond but did you even TRY to read my post?

For one, thats not a good excuse. The SDBs are only scattered between Universe 6 and 7 and we know that Capsule Corp can create spaceship tech. Or Vegeta could just use the space cube for Beerus and Whis. If he really cared about the saiyans or his parents enough to resurrect them, he would have done all that but he didn’t because he doesn’t care that much about them

For that second point, first off, that info is wrong. Because in the Namek saga, Porunga was able to revive all the killed Namekians and in the Buu saga, Porunga was able bring back all the people killed by Buu in the Buu arc. And again, already explained why this whole excuse of yours doesn’t work.

Sure, Shenron and Porunga cant bring back people dead for more than a certain amount of time and Shenron specifically cant bring back multiple people at once, but at the time of the saiyan and namek saga, Vegeta never knew about that rule. So as far as he knew, if he wanted to, he COULD have brought back the saiyan race or his parents. But he instead chose to go for immortality. So that again shows that he doesn’t care enough about his family or race to wish them back.

And as for your last point, I'm sorry but you must not have seen DBS or Vegeta after the Buu arc. He’s definitely moralistic. Heck, Super confirmed Vegeta was pure of heart. OF COURSE he wouldn’t wish back a race of savages that are a danger to the universe and even his own family on Earth. It was established after Vegeta’s Final atonement in the Buu saga that Vegeta was a changed man.

And GT Vegeta ain’t relevant anymore. We’re talking about DBS Vegeta because thats the Vegeta apart of the main continuity. GT Vegeta’s character is invalid evidence for the character of Vegeta in DBS as they dont even exist are apart of the same continuity.

And again, thats exactly why the thought of Vegeta wishing back his race is more fanservice straight out of a fanfic. And there’s no reason to even bring them back in the first place. All it would do is cause more harm than good.

1. The SDBs were stated to scatter across the entire multiverse after use. The only reason most were in U6 during the Champa arc is because Champa had collected most of them before the tournament began. Bulma doesn't have the technology to travel across universes (she can't even travel to the afterlife in U7 with her tech). And Why would Beerus or Whis give Vegeta a space cube? Those things are rare, privileged objects that even Hit couldn't get from Vados.

2. This argument has been ran to the ground so many times that its redundant to debunk it again.

3. No, Vegeta isn't moralistic at all in Super. He has never expressed any remorse or shame about the U7 Saiyans in Super at all (same with GT), nor does he seem to care about justice, forgiveness or any of that (like Gohan and Future Trunks do). And he isn't pure of heart at all (you have to be born with it remember? Only the Son family males are pure of heart, Vegeta can't ride the Nimbus like they can). So you are just projecting your biases there.

This is just like when you say the SDBs could only be used every million years. I dont know where you’re getting your info from but its wrong. The SDBs scatter between U6 and u7.

Not trying to come off as a prick or anything, but as I said last time, read up on your info before you talk like its factual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz77_Scn0lE skip to 0:25 and watch.

I mean, if you can show me where it shows that Vegeta knew about the limitations of Shenron like i showed you how your info was wrong, that would be debunking my point. Right now it just seems like you’re trying to avoid the point i made that shuts down your whole point.

Even more wrong info. Never was it said you have to be born pure of heart to have have a pure heart. It literally says that to do the ssgod ritual, you had to have a pure heart. Vegeta got that pure heart after his Majin Vegeta explosion in the Buu saga. He sure as heck wasn’t pure of heart when he was born yet he now he is pure of heart according to Toriyama and the Battle of Gods movie since he was able to be apart of the ssgod ritual. And in DBS they use the word “righteous”. So that just proves that Vegeta in DBS is a righteous person. Either way, it proves that he has morals.

Before you respond with anything else, fact check it. I’m being serious. Its not a discussion if all you do is post illegitimate info

[Mercenary]

Well, despite having several things that I would like to see in this movie that probably will not happen, I really want to know about Vegeta's participation in this movie.

It would be best not to create any kind of expectation for things related to Vegeta in the film, mainly due to the trailers, his participation in other films and in the anime (although still better than most other Z fighters), but one of the producers said that this movie was a change of pace for him because before he was just beaten and used for jokes (suggesting that his role would be different now), and Bulma's new voice actor said he had a cool scene that fans should expect.

Yes, it's very subjective, but I'm really curious about what it's going to do differently this time around. No new transformations, but maybe a decent fight with Broly? I don't know

They probably just meant Vegeta getting to beat Broly as a part of Gogeta. He got his ass kicked but Goku got his ass kicked as well, so there's nothing wrong with that.

I do not know if '' Vegeta is very cool in the movie '' means being beaten in different transformations until he merges with another guy at the end and defeats the villain quickly (at least individually it would not be cool).

The producer basically defined Vegeta's entire participation before the movie as being 'beaten and serving for jokes,' even though with Vegetto appearing once, so I assume Vegeta will at least do something cool in the fight. Like I said, it's a bit subjective what he said, but I expect it to be really cool (without creating too many expectations)

Maybe he will get to beat inferior Broly forms. I just can’t come up with any other idea. Their only enemy is Broly.

[TheSaiyanGod]

They probably just meant Vegeta getting to beat Broly as a part of Gogeta. He got his ass kicked but Goku got his ass kicked as well, so there's nothing wrong with that.

I do not know if '' Vegeta is very cool in the movie '' means being beaten in different transformations until he merges with another guy at the end and defeats the villain quickly (at least individually it would not be cool).

The producer basically defined Vegeta's entire participation before the movie as being 'beaten and serving for jokes,' even though with Vegetto appearing once, so I assume Vegeta will at least do something cool in the fight. Like I said, it's a bit subjective what he said, but I expect it to be really cool (without creating too many expectations)

Maybe he will get to beat inferior Broly forms. I just can’t come up with any other idea. Their only enemy is Broly.

Considering that in most of the trailers we saw Goku facing inferior Broly forms, I also doubt that Vegeta will defeat them (but apparently, Broly's transition from '' rage mode '' to SSJ will be during the fight against Goku, and we still don't know how Vegeta is involved, we only saw him facing Broly SSJ with Goku, and he was already damaging, probably because of these previous battles)

Maybe he has a scene similar to '' my Bulma '' (Bulma's voice actor also said that Vegeta had a scene that showed his love for her) or holding Broly alone for a while, though I prefer him to fight Freeza , would be a good opportunity. But according to the spoilers, it seems that Freeza is going to be some kind of joke in the movie, so it probably will not happen

[PFM18]

That's not true, Geekdom said Gogeta was going to finish off Broly, but Cheerai wished to save Broly with the DB. Cheerai doesn't calm Broly down.

This. This isnt about calming Broky down it is about saving him from Gogeta. She uses a wish from shenron to do it

Whats Broky and can you eat it?

Typo, sorry

[zarmack]

You can respond but did you even TRY to read my post?

For one, thats not a good excuse. The SDBs are only scattered between Universe 6 and 7 and we know that Capsule Corp can create spaceship tech. Or Vegeta could just use the space cube for Beerus and Whis. If he really cared about the saiyans or his parents enough to resurrect them, he would have done all that but he didn’t because he doesn’t care that much about them

For that second point, first off, that info is wrong. Because in the Namek saga, Porunga was able to revive all the killed Namekians and in the Buu saga, Porunga was able bring back all the people killed by Buu in the Buu arc. And again, already explained why this whole excuse of yours doesn’t work.

Sure, Shenron and Porunga cant bring back people dead for more than a certain amount of time and Shenron specifically cant bring back multiple people at once, but at the time of the saiyan and namek saga, Vegeta never knew about that rule. So as far as he knew, if he wanted to, he COULD have brought back the saiyan race or his parents. But he instead chose to go for immortality. So that again shows that he doesn’t care enough about his family or race to wish them back.

And as for your last point, I'm sorry but you must not have seen DBS or Vegeta after the Buu arc. He’s definitely moralistic. Heck, Super confirmed Vegeta was pure of heart. OF COURSE he wouldn’t wish back a race of savages that are a danger to the universe and even his own family on Earth. It was established after Vegeta’s Final atonement in the Buu saga that Vegeta was a changed man.

And GT Vegeta ain’t relevant anymore. We’re talking about DBS Vegeta because thats the Vegeta apart of the main continuity. GT Vegeta’s character is invalid evidence for the character of Vegeta in DBS as they dont even exist are apart of the same continuity.

And again, thats exactly why the thought of Vegeta wishing back his race is more fanservice straight out of a fanfic. And there’s no reason to even bring them back in the first place. All it would do is cause more harm than good.

1. The SDBs were stated to scatter across the entire multiverse after use. The only reason most were in U6 during the Champa arc is because Champa had collected most of them before the tournament began. Bulma doesn't have the technology to travel across universes (she can't even travel to the afterlife in U7 with her tech). And Why would Beerus or Whis give Vegeta a space cube? Those things are rare, privileged objects that even Hit couldn't get from Vados.

2. This argument has been ran to the ground so many times that its redundant to debunk it again.

3. No, Vegeta isn't moralistic at all in Super. He has never expressed any remorse or shame about the U7 Saiyans in Super at all (same with GT), nor does he seem to care about justice, forgiveness or any of that (like Gohan and Future Trunks do). And he isn't pure of heart at all (you have to be born with it remember? Only the Son family males are pure of heart, Vegeta can't ride the Nimbus like they can). So you are just projecting your biases there.

This is just like when you say the SDBs could only be used every million years. I dont know where you’re getting your info from but its wrong. The SDBs scatter between U6 and u7.

Not trying to come off as a prick or anything, but as I said last time, read up on your info before you talk like its factual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz77_Scn0lE skip to 0:25 and watch.

I mean, if you can show me where it shows that Vegeta knew about the limitations of Shenron like i showed you how your info was wrong, that would be debunking my point. Right now it just seems like you’re trying to avoid the point i made that shuts down your whole point.

Even more wrong info. Never was it said you have to be born pure of heart to have have a pure heart. It literally says that to do the ssgod ritual, you had to have a pure heart. Vegeta got that pure heart after his Majin Vegeta explosion in the Buu saga. He sure as heck wasn’t pure of heart when he was born yet he now he is pure of heart according to Toriyama and the Battle of Gods movie since he was able to be apart of the ssgod ritual. And in DBS they use the word “righteous”. So that just proves that Vegeta in DBS is a righteous person. Either way, it proves that he has morals.

Before you respond with anything else, fact check it. I’m being serious. Its not a discussion if all you do is post illegitimate info

1. I never said the SDBs could only be used once every million years. You are the one spreading misinformation now. Either way, Vegeta and Bulma don't have the means to travel across different universes at will.

2. He was explained about the limitations of the DBs on Namek at one point, first when he tried to steal them from some villagers and again after the Ginyu Force died off.

3. "Righteous" and "Pure of Heart" are not the same thing. There are levels of goodness just like how there are levels of evilness. Bulma and Krillin aren't evil but they can't use the Nimbus, and Vegeta has never been shown to be able to either. A person who is "pure of heart" is someone who could never be turned nor born evil by any means. The mere fact the Vegeta use to be evil at all disqualifies him from ever being "pure of heart" logically. "Righteous" simply means that person is good, its not the same as being "pure". Hell, Vegeta's morality in any series never goes beyond "whatever is against my pride is bad", just like how Goku's morality never goes beyond "don't hurt my friends".

Either way, you failed to show any proof of Vegeta showing any remorse or even any negative feelings about the U7 Saiyans in Super. Not once. So you are just projecting if you think Vegeta doesn't care about the Saiyans in Super.

[FortuneSSJ]

So Broly and Cheelai survive, but what about Freeza, Paragus, Lemo and the other Freeza's soldiers? Anyone dies and if so who kills who?

[AnimeNation101]

1. The SDBs were stated to scatter across the entire multiverse after use. The only reason most were in U6 during the Champa arc is because Champa had collected most of them before the tournament began. Bulma doesn't have the technology to travel across universes (she can't even travel to the afterlife in U7 with her tech). And Why would Beerus or Whis give Vegeta a space cube? Those things are rare, privileged objects that even Hit couldn't get from Vados.

2. This argument has been ran to the ground so many times that its redundant to debunk it again.

3. No, Vegeta isn't moralistic at all in Super. He has never expressed any remorse or shame about the U7 Saiyans in Super at all (same with GT), nor does he seem to care about justice, forgiveness or any of that (like Gohan and Future Trunks do). And he isn't pure of heart at all (you have to be born with it remember? Only the Son family males are pure of heart, Vegeta can't ride the Nimbus like they can). So you are just projecting your biases there.

This is just like when you say the SDBs could only be used every million years. I dont know where you’re getting your info from but its wrong. The SDBs scatter between U6 and u7.

Not trying to come off as a prick or anything, but as I said last time, read up on your info before you talk like its factual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz77_Scn0lE skip to 0:25 and watch.

I mean, if you can show me where it shows that Vegeta knew about the limitations of Shenron like i showed you how your info was wrong, that would be debunking my point. Right now it just seems like you’re trying to avoid the point i made that shuts down your whole point.

Even more wrong info. Never was it said you have to be born pure of heart to have have a pure heart. It literally says that to do the ssgod ritual, you had to have a pure heart. Vegeta got that pure heart after his Majin Vegeta explosion in the Buu saga. He sure as heck wasn’t pure of heart when he was born yet he now he is pure of heart according to Toriyama and the Battle of Gods movie since he was able to be apart of the ssgod ritual. And in DBS they use the word “righteous”. So that just proves that Vegeta in DBS is a righteous person. Either way, it proves that he has morals.

Before you respond with anything else, fact check it. I’m being serious. Its not a discussion if all you do is post illegitimate info

1. I never said the SDBs could only be used once every million years. You are the one spreading misinformation now. Either way, Vegeta and Bulma don't have the means to travel across different universes at will.

2. He was explained about the limitations of the DBs on Namek at one point, first when he tried to steal them from some villagers and again after the Ginyu Force died off.

3. "Righteous" and "Pure of Heart" are not the same thing. There are levels of goodness just like how there are levels of evilness. Bulma and Krillin aren't evil but they can't use the Nimbus, and Vegeta has never been shown to be able to either. A person who is "pure of heart" is someone who could never be turned nor born evil by any means. The mere fact the Vegeta use to be evil at all disqualifies him from ever being "pure of heart" logically. "Righteous" simply means that person is good, its not the same as being "pure". Hell, Vegeta's morality in any series never goes beyond "whatever is against my pride is bad", just like how Goku's morality never goes beyond "don't hurt my friends".

Either way, you failed to show any proof of Vegeta showing any remorse or even any negative feelings about the U7 Saiyans in Super. Not once. So you are just projecting if you think Vegeta doesn't care about the Saiyans in Super.

Oh my bad. You say everything 1000 years. Either way its wrong info that you were sure was right but turned out to be wrong. And again, if Bulma can build a time machine, she can easily build a universe travelling space ship. In fact, it isn’t even that hard. Time machines travel to differnt realities. All you need is a fast space ship that has enough fuel to travel from universe to universe. Its not like there is a barrier that only specific ships can go through. Or at least that was never said. So, as of now, there’s no excuse here.

And for the third time, even before Vegeta was told the limitations of the dragon balls, we already knew before, that before Vegeta was told the limitations of the Dragon Balls, he was going to wish for immortality anyway. So again, my point still stands. He didn’t care enough about his race or parents to wish them back.

And again, you’re making stuff up. How about post proof? Where does it say you can never be born evil and get a pure of heart later? Because, like i said before, the Battle of Gods movie written by Toriyama, says the ritual needs 6 PURE HEARTED SAIYANS. So according to Toriyama at least, Vegeta is pure of heart. And whether you go with pure of heart or righteous, those both show that Vegeta is moralistic in DBS.

Look it up.

Righteous: (of a person or conduct) morally right or justifiable; virtuous

Thats all you need to throw this whole idea of Vegeta wishing back his race of evil savages out the window.

Also, ur wrong about when Vegeta finds out about the rules of the Dragon Balls. In the scene where he kills the villagers for the Dragon Balls, they never tell him about its rules. Thats just another wrong fact. Again, you didn’t fact check. I’d see if your other claim is legit but that seems like it would take too long to see for sure.

[AnimeNation101]

So Broly and Cheelai survive, but what about Freeza, Paragus, Lemo and the other Freeza's soldiers? Anyone dies and if so who kills who?

Geekdom confirms that Paragus dies. Freeza prob survives. Lemo prob dead.

[zarmack]

This is just like when you say the SDBs could only be used every million years. I dont know where you’re getting your info from but its wrong. The SDBs scatter between U6 and u7.

Not trying to come off as a prick or anything, but as I said last time, read up on your info before you talk like its factual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz77_Scn0lE skip to 0:25 and watch.

I mean, if you can show me where it shows that Vegeta knew about the limitations of Shenron like i showed you how your info was wrong, that would be debunking my point. Right now it just seems like you’re trying to avoid the point i made that shuts down your whole point.

Even more wrong info. Never was it said you have to be born pure of heart to have have a pure heart. It literally says that to do the ssgod ritual, you had to have a pure heart. Vegeta got that pure heart after his Majin Vegeta explosion in the Buu saga. He sure as heck wasn’t pure of heart when he was born yet he now he is pure of heart according to Toriyama and the Battle of Gods movie since he was able to be apart of the ssgod ritual. And in DBS they use the word “righteous”. So that just proves that Vegeta in DBS is a righteous person. Either way, it proves that he has morals.

Before you respond with anything else, fact check it. I’m being serious. Its not a discussion if all you do is post illegitimate info

1. I never said the SDBs could only be used once every million years. You are the one spreading misinformation now. Either way, Vegeta and Bulma don't have the means to travel across different universes at will.

2. He was explained about the limitations of the DBs on Namek at one point, first when he tried to steal them from some villagers and again after the Ginyu Force died off.

3. "Righteous" and "Pure of Heart" are not the same thing. There are levels of goodness just like how there are levels of evilness. Bulma and Krillin aren't evil but they can't use the Nimbus, and Vegeta has never been shown to be able to either. A person who is "pure of heart" is someone who could never be turned nor born evil by any means. The mere fact the Vegeta use to be evil at all disqualifies him from ever being "pure of heart" logically. "Righteous" simply means that person is good, its not the same as being "pure". Hell, Vegeta's morality in any series never goes beyond "whatever is against my pride is bad", just like how Goku's morality never goes beyond "don't hurt my friends".

Either way, you failed to show any proof of Vegeta showing any remorse or even any negative feelings about the U7 Saiyans in Super. Not once. So you are just projecting if you think Vegeta doesn't care about the Saiyans in Super.

Oh my bad. You say everything 1000 years. Either way its wrong info that you were sure was right but turned out to be wrong. And again, if Bulma can build a time machine, she can easily build a universe travelling space ship. In fact, it isn’t even that hard. Time machines travel to differnt realities. All you need is a fast space ship that has enough fuel to travel from universe to universe. Its not like there is a barrier that only specific ships can go through. Or at least that was never said. So, as of now, there’s no excuse here.

And for the third time, even before Vegeta was told the limitations of the dragon balls, we already knew before, that before Vegeta was told the limitations of the Dragon Balls, he was going to wish for immortality anyway. So again, my point still stands. He didn’t care enough about his race or parents to wish them back.

And again, you’re making stuff up. How about post proof? Where does it say you can never be born evil and get a pure of heart later? Because, like i said before, the Battle of Gods movie written by Toriyama, says the ritual needs 6 PURE HEARTED SAIYANS. So according to Toriyama at least, Vegeta is pure of heart. And whether you go with pure of heart or righteous, those both show that Vegeta is moralistic in DBS.

Look it up.

Righteous: (of a person or conduct) morally right or justifiable; virtuous

Thats all you need to throw this whole idea of Vegeta wishing back his race of evil savages out the window.

Also, ur wrong about when Vegeta finds out about the rules of the Dragon Balls. In the scene where he kills the villagers for the Dragon Balls, they never tell him about its rules. Thats just another wrong fact. Again, you didn’t fact check. I’d see if your other claim is legit but that seems like it would take too long to see for sure.

1. This is a stupid argument. Bulma's time machine can't travel betweem different universes, and there is not a single timeline where the Z-crew as access to all of the SDBs.

2. Vegeta hasn't expressed a single moralistic attitude in all of Super. Sure Toriyama may claim that Goku and Vegeta are "rightous" (yet Piccolo called this out as bullshit in the BoG movie), yet these are same two guys who like letting villains run free so they can fight them again, or let villains reach there full power just for a challenge.

And no, "righteousness" and "purity" are not the same thing. Righteous simply means being a good person overall, being pure means being morally flawless and incorruptible. A person who was previously evil in any way logically can't ever be pure of heart. Even the Dragonball series itself acknowledges the difference between the two. Bulma, Roshi and Krillin weren't evil, yet none of them could ever use the Nimbus when they tried. That shows that the series doesn't consider being merely good as the same as being pure of heart.