Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #1 Thread: "Broly"

[Tai Lung]

Kefla base defeated an extremely tired Goku SSG, and only Goku SSB (equally tired) was able to match the Kefla SSJ Berserker. She is not even close

And Broly did not defeat Goku SSG in base form, we know he was using another form, with yellow eyes with pupils and with larger muscles

fatigue atrophies the transformation but not enough so that the difference is abysmal.
but at least goku uses the Blueken and the UI against kefla but he will not use with broly

worse yet .. if you can not use it in base

That's some pretty intense oversimplification there. Kefla was explicitly not GoD tier, and Broly explicitly possibly above that tier. It is really that simple. Also, the promotional material could be used to justify Broly>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kefla

but both surpass it .. the difference may be small and broly may be only slightly above kefla apart from goku and vegeta it seems that they will give some fight in that form

feats >>>>>> the promotional material

So you're saying that SSB Gogeta is just barely stronger than TOP UI omen? Vados quite clearly said that Fusion combines their fusees max power and then increases their strength by dozens, so by simple Logic and the fact that Goku held his own against SS Kefla in SSB, a fusion of both Goku and Vegeta post TOP would oneshot her in base.

Also characters get stronger throughout the tournament stated several times which you seem to ignore

Why would that have something wrong?, we are talking about the "UI" the skill of the gods with which it surpasses jiren and beerus.
fusion potara, not fusion dance
but goku I use the blueken and the "UI" to face kefla but not against broly so ...
yes, I ignore it because it does not seem to be very relevant since it never clarifies how much its power increases .. it can be minimal

[Jmass97]

What do I use? in feats and in facts ...
kefla defeated Goku SSJG in base ..
Broly defeated Goku SSJG in base ..
-----
you can see that Goku and Vegeta in SSB face Broly SSJ and also golden frieza.

besides there is no blueken, SSBE or UI to compare so ..

Gogeta SSB> Goku UI Omen> Broly LSSJ> = Kefla SSL2

So you're saying that SSB Gogeta is just barely stronger than TOP UI omen? Vados quite clearly said that Fusion combines their fusees max power and then increases their strength by dozens, so by simple Logic and the fact that Goku held his own against SS Kefla in SSB, a fusion of both Goku and Vegeta post TOP would oneshot her in base.

Also characters get stronger throughout the tournament stated several times which you seem to ignore

One shot in Base? That is a HUGE stretch. You seem to think Goku was on par with SSJ Kefla when she was stated to rival the Genki Dama and ultimately defeated SSBKKx20.


It was never explicitly stated that they got stronger throughout the tournament. Certainly not "several times." Considering that there's exactly 0 statements about Goku/Vegeta having these enormous power increases, although it is possible, they aren't supported by statements.

Even so they’re still stronger post tournament of power due to zenkais plus they’ve been training after the tournament up until Broly arrives. UI omen Goku literally stopped powering up saying that that’s as far as he’ll go. A fresh Goku in the tournament probably could have pushed kefla to ssj2 without even using UI omen but probably wouldn’t have won. Broly is certainly stronger than Kefla idk why this is even a debate

[Kenneth La Torre]

Really? The dudend is stated in the movie to be relative to beerus, and his only about a strong as kefla you say? Even when the trailer says "strongest vs strongest", do you know how strong someone has to be to be compared to beerus?
Broly has the same hype in power as a completed UI Goku in a promo.

You literally need MUI levels of power to be considered an opponent of beerus caliber.

Btw, ssb gogeta is literally at least a million times stronger than a ssb goku and vegeta, considering we know that from base to ssj3 there is a 400x gap, and the God Form have an even bigger multiplier (God at least 10x, while blue is implied to be ssg's ssj form)

[Jmass97]

Kefla base defeated an extremely tired Goku SSG, and only Goku SSB (equally tired) was able to match the Kefla SSJ Berserker. She is not even close

And Broly did not defeat Goku SSG in base form, we know he was using another form, with yellow eyes with pupils and with larger muscles

fatigue atrophies the transformation but not enough so that the difference is abysmal.
but at least goku uses the Blueken and the UI against kefla but he will not use with broly

worse yet .. if you can not use it in base

That's some pretty intense oversimplification there. Kefla was explicitly not GoD tier, and Broly explicitly possibly above that tier. It is really that simple. Also, the promotional material could be used to justify Broly>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kefla

but both surpass it .. the difference may be small and broly may be only slightly above kefla apart from goku and vegeta it seems that they will give some fight in that form

feats >>>>>> the promotional material

So you're saying that SSB Gogeta is just barely stronger than TOP UI omen? Vados quite clearly said that Fusion combines their fusees max power and then increases their strength by dozens, so by simple Logic and the fact that Goku held his own against SS Kefla in SSB, a fusion of both Goku and Vegeta post TOP would oneshot her in base.

Also characters get stronger throughout the tournament stated several times which you seem to ignore

Why would that have something wrong?, we are talking about the "UI" the skill of the gods with which it surpasses jiren and beerus.
fusion potara, not fusion dance
but goku I use the blueken and the "UI" to face kefla but not against broly so ...
yes, I ignore it because it does not seem to be very relevant since it never clarifies how much its power increases .. it can be minimal

Based off of your comments you must believe that UI phase 2 Goku from the TOP must be above a post TOP Gogeta who needed blue to beat Broly...that same UI omen Goku who’s weaker than a phase 3 UI omen Goku who’s weaker than Jiren...another being who was stated to be at the level of the Gods like well...Broly who also was still growing during the battle with Gogeta and was stated to be the strongest foe Goku has fought...I just don’t see how you can possibly believe he and Kefla are equal.

[Miracles]

This is old but I have a question...

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1025911175198863360

"Nagamine says they’re adapting Toriyama’s script pretty much as-is apart from the action scenes. But the original script would've made for twice the scheduled 90 minute run time, so everyone involved has worked to trim it down, though the run time has still been slightly extended."

Based off this, what does the staff do with the rest of that script? Do they insert it in the DVD for "remastered versions?"

[zarmack]

I'm honestly okay with Broly not lasting so long in his FPSSJ or "Berserk" or "LSSJ" form against Gogeta. This new Broly is no longer just a hulking, green haired mess of rage and yelling Kakarot. He's more than his iconic form.

The classic Broly embraced being evil. While this Broly seems to be a victim. According to the spoilers but I take everyone of them with a grain of salt.

That's painfully generic. "look, another guy is evil just because! Oh, and he's really strong!" And it makes it that much more dumb as a character when you realize his main motivation was related to a baby crying next to him.

Him being a more sympathetic character makes him infinitely more interesting.

Being more sympathetic doesn't automatically make a character more interesting and there's nothing inherently generic about being willfully evil. There's nothing sympathetic about Freeza and any version of Zamasu, yet they are the 2 most interesting villains in the franchise.

[Tai Lung]

Kefla base defeated an extremely tired Goku SSG, and only Goku SSB (equally tired) was able to match the Kefla SSJ Berserker. She is not even close

And Broly did not defeat Goku SSG in base form, we know he was using another form, with yellow eyes with pupils and with larger muscles

fatigue atrophies the transformation but not enough so that the difference is abysmal.
but at least goku uses the Blueken and the UI against kefla but he will not use with broly

worse yet .. if you can not use it in base

That's some pretty intense oversimplification there. Kefla was explicitly not GoD tier, and Broly explicitly possibly above that tier. It is really that simple. Also, the promotional material could be used to justify Broly>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kefla

but both surpass it .. the difference may be small and broly may be only slightly above kefla apart from goku and vegeta it seems that they will give some fight in that form

feats >>>>>> the promotional material

So you're saying that SSB Gogeta is just barely stronger than TOP UI omen? Vados quite clearly said that Fusion combines their fusees max power and then increases their strength by dozens, so by simple Logic and the fact that Goku held his own against SS Kefla in SSB, a fusion of both Goku and Vegeta post TOP would oneshot her in base.

Also characters get stronger throughout the tournament stated several times which you seem to ignore

Why would that have something wrong?, we are talking about the "UI" the skill of the gods with which it surpasses jiren and beerus.
fusion potara, not fusion dance
but goku I use the blueken and the "UI" to face kefla but not against broly so ...
yes, I ignore it because it does not seem to be very relevant since it never clarifies how much its power increases .. it can be minimal

Based off of your comments you must believe that UI phase 2 Goku from the TOP must be above a post TOP Gogeta who needed blue to beat Broly...that same UI omen Goku who’s weaker than a phase 3 UI omen Goku who’s weaker than Jiren...another being who was stated to be at the level of the Gods like well...Broly who also was still growing during the battle with Gogeta and was stated to be the strongest foe Goku has fought...I just don’t see how you can possibly believe he and Kefla are equal.

say things does not deny the facts ... the mention must have something to sustain it.
but since broly does not even face beerus there is no way to know
The "UI mastered" a skill that surpasses the power of the gods. This is said several times in the series addition to something
that very few dominate and jiren face goku, that jiren overcomes the gods is very possible.
do you think that goku SSB is currently stronger than goku SSB + KKX20 (TOP)? not for me

I can change my mind after watching the movie but for now I think so ...
UI Mastered>Gogeta SSB>>> UI Omen> Broly> = Kefla

[zarmack]

What do I use? in feats and in facts ...
kefla defeated Goku SSJG in base ..
Broly defeated Goku SSJG in base ..
-----
you can see that Goku and Vegeta in SSB face Broly SSJ and also golden frieza.

besides there is no blueken, SSBE or UI to compare so ..

Gogeta SSB> Goku UI Omen> Broly LSSJ> = Kefla SSL2

So you're saying that SSB Gogeta is just barely stronger than TOP UI omen? Vados quite clearly said that Fusion combines their fusees max power and then increases their strength by dozens, so by simple Logic and the fact that Goku held his own against SS Kefla in SSB, a fusion of both Goku and Vegeta post TOP would oneshot her in base.

Also characters get stronger throughout the tournament stated several times which you seem to ignore

One shot in Base? That is a HUGE stretch. You seem to think Goku was on par with SSJ Kefla when she was stated to rival the Genki Dama and ultimately defeated SSBKKx20.


It was never explicitly stated that they got stronger throughout the tournament. Certainly not "several times." Considering that there's exactly 0 statements about Goku/Vegeta having these enormous power increases, although it is possible, they aren't supported by statements.

There's plenty of feats and indirect statements about Goku and Vegeta getting stronger throughout the ToP (outside of gaining new forms). For example SSBKKx20 Goku since ep.122 is clearly way stronger than the one from the hour special, and SSB Vegeta in ep.122 is clearly way stronger than he was at the start of the ToP.

[zarmack]

fatigue atrophies the transformation but not enough so that the difference is abysmal.
but at least goku uses the Blueken and the UI against kefla but he will not use with broly

worse yet .. if you can not use it in base




but both surpass it .. the difference may be small and broly may be only slightly above kefla apart from goku and vegeta it seems that they will give some fight in that form

feats >>>>>> the promotional material



Why would that have something wrong?, we are talking about the "UI" the skill of the gods with which it surpasses jiren and beerus.
fusion potara, not fusion dance
but goku I use the blueken and the "UI" to face kefla but not against broly so ...
yes, I ignore it because it does not seem to be very relevant since it never clarifies how much its power increases .. it can be minimal

Based off of your comments you must believe that UI phase 2 Goku from the TOP must be above a post TOP Gogeta who needed blue to beat Broly...that same UI omen Goku who’s weaker than a phase 3 UI omen Goku who’s weaker than Jiren...another being who was stated to be at the level of the Gods like well...Broly who also was still growing during the battle with Gogeta and was stated to be the strongest foe Goku has fought...I just don’t see how you can possibly believe he and Kefla are equal.

say things does not deny the facts ... the mention must have something to sustain it.
but since broly does not even face beerus there is no way to know
The "UI mastered" a skill that surpasses the power of the gods. This is said several times in the series addition to something
that very few dominate and jiren face goku, that jiren overcomes the gods is very possible.
do you think that goku SSB is currently stronger than goku SSB + KKX20 (TOP)? not for me

I can change my mind after watching the movie but for now I think so ...
UI Mastered>Gogeta SSB>>> UI Omen> Broly> = Kefla

You are comparing a fatigued SSG Goku fighting Kefla at the ToP to a Post-ToP full stamina SSG Goku fighting Broly. False analogy.

They are nowhere near equal. Base Broly in the trailers was fighting with a Post-ToP SSB Goku equally, Base Kefla can't do that.

[Jmass97]

fatigue atrophies the transformation but not enough so that the difference is abysmal.
but at least goku uses the Blueken and the UI against kefla but he will not use with broly

worse yet .. if you can not use it in base




but both surpass it .. the difference may be small and broly may be only slightly above kefla apart from goku and vegeta it seems that they will give some fight in that form

feats >>>>>> the promotional material



Why would that have something wrong?, we are talking about the "UI" the skill of the gods with which it surpasses jiren and beerus.
fusion potara, not fusion dance
but goku I use the blueken and the "UI" to face kefla but not against broly so ...
yes, I ignore it because it does not seem to be very relevant since it never clarifies how much its power increases .. it can be minimal

Based off of your comments you must believe that UI phase 2 Goku from the TOP must be above a post TOP Gogeta who needed blue to beat Broly...that same UI omen Goku who’s weaker than a phase 3 UI omen Goku who’s weaker than Jiren...another being who was stated to be at the level of the Gods like well...Broly who also was still growing during the battle with Gogeta and was stated to be the strongest foe Goku has fought...I just don’t see how you can possibly believe he and Kefla are equal.

say things does not deny the facts ... the mention must have something to sustain it.
but since broly does not even face beerus there is no way to know
The "UI mastered" a skill that surpasses the power of the gods. This is said several times in the series addition to something
that very few dominate and jiren face goku, that jiren overcomes the gods is very possible.
do you think that goku SSB is currently stronger than goku SSB + KKX20 (TOP)? not for me

I can change my mind after watching the movie but for now I think so ...
UI Mastered>Gogeta SSB>>> UI Omen> Broly> = Kefla

I agree with your scaling here but mastered UI has nothing to do with what you were originally saying nor does it have to do with what I previously mentioned but hey agree to disagree

[Jmass97]

Based off of your comments you must believe that UI phase 2 Goku from the TOP must be above a post TOP Gogeta who needed blue to beat Broly...that same UI omen Goku who’s weaker than a phase 3 UI omen Goku who’s weaker than Jiren...another being who was stated to be at the level of the Gods like well...Broly who also was still growing during the battle with Gogeta and was stated to be the strongest foe Goku has fought...I just don’t see how you can possibly believe he and Kefla are equal.

say things does not deny the facts ... the mention must have something to sustain it.
but since broly does not even face beerus there is no way to know
The "UI mastered" a skill that surpasses the power of the gods. This is said several times in the series addition to something
that very few dominate and jiren face goku, that jiren overcomes the gods is very possible.
do you think that goku SSB is currently stronger than goku SSB + KKX20 (TOP)? not for me

I can change my mind after watching the movie but for now I think so ...
UI Mastered>Gogeta SSB>>> UI Omen> Broly> = Kefla

I agree with your scaling here but mastered UI has nothing to do with what you were originally saying nor does it have to do with what I previously mentioned but hey agree to disagree

I actually think a current ui omen Goku could be above Broly but not a TOP phase 2 omen by any means

[Tai Lung]

Based off of your comments you must believe that UI phase 2 Goku from the TOP must be above a post TOP Gogeta who needed blue to beat Broly...that same UI omen Goku who’s weaker than a phase 3 UI omen Goku who’s weaker than Jiren...another being who was stated to be at the level of the Gods like well...Broly who also was still growing during the battle with Gogeta and was stated to be the strongest foe Goku has fought...I just don’t see how you can possibly believe he and Kefla are equal.

say things does not deny the facts ... the mention must have something to sustain it.
but since broly does not even face beerus there is no way to know
The "UI mastered" a skill that surpasses the power of the gods. This is said several times in the series addition to something
that very few dominate and jiren face goku, that jiren overcomes the gods is very possible.
do you think that goku SSB is currently stronger than goku SSB + KKX20 (TOP)? not for me

I can change my mind after watching the movie but for now I think so ...
UI Mastered>Gogeta SSB>>> UI Omen> Broly> = Kefla

I agree with your scaling here but mastered UI has nothing to do with what you were originally saying nor does it have to do w ith what I previously mentioned but hey agree to disagree

then I read you wrong ..

for me it's okay

[PFM18]

So you're saying that SSB Gogeta is just barely stronger than TOP UI omen? Vados quite clearly said that Fusion combines their fusees max power and then increases their strength by dozens, so by simple Logic and the fact that Goku held his own against SS Kefla in SSB, a fusion of both Goku and Vegeta post TOP would oneshot her in base.

Also characters get stronger throughout the tournament stated several times which you seem to ignore

One shot in Base? That is a HUGE stretch. You seem to think Goku was on par with SSJ Kefla when she was stated to rival the Genki Dama and ultimately defeated SSBKKx20.


It was never explicitly stated that they got stronger throughout the tournament. Certainly not "several times." Considering that there's exactly 0 statements about Goku/Vegeta having these enormous power increases, although it is possible, they aren't supported by statements.

There's plenty of feats and indirect statements about Goku and Vegeta getting stronger throughout the ToP (outside of gaining new forms). For example SSBKKx20 Goku since ep.122 is clearly way stronger than the one from the hour special, and SSB Vegeta in ep.122 is clearly way stronger than he was at the start of the ToP.

You say there's statements and then you just kind of arbitrarily declare that they must have gotten stronger. You literally just say "he's clearly way stronger" in two instances with no substance whatsoever.

I believe they did get stronger, but there are no statements regarding it.

The classic Broly embraced being evil. While this Broly seems to be a victim. According to the spoilers but I take everyone of them with a grain of salt.

That's painfully generic. "look, another guy is evil just because! Oh, and he's really strong!" And it makes it that much more dumb as a character when you realize his main motivation was related to a baby crying next to him.

Him being a more sympathetic character makes him infinitely more interesting.

Being more sympathetic doesn't automatically make a character more interesting and there's nothing inherently generic about being willfully evil. There's nothing sympathetic about Freeza and any version of Zamasu, yet they are the 2 most interesting villains in the franchise.

Being sympathetic doesn't automatically make you more compelling by default, but a generic evil brute motivated by a crying baby and devoid of nuance, is not as compelling as a more sympathetic, deeper character.(albeit not as deep as he could have been)

[Jmass97]

Broly is stronger than Kefla. Moving on lol

[TheSaiyanGod]

And Broly did not defeat Goku SSG in base form, we know he was using another form, with yellow eyes with pupils and with larger muscles

Yes, his "Ikari" form. He obtains yellow eyes and spiky hair in that state.

Spoiler:

Base Broly~SSJ Goku/Vegeta
Ikari Broly~SSB Goku/Vegeta>>>SSG Goku/Vegeta
SSJ Broly~SSJ Gogeta>>>>Full-power SSB(whether that be CSSB or SSBKK/SSBE depending on the continuity you're comparing to)
LSSJ Broly>>>SSJ Gogeta>>>>>Full-power SSB

So yeah, Broly completely leaves Kefla in the dust. she's probably only a couple times stronger than Goku's max output as SSB and for that matter it is arguable that he got stronger during ep 123 onward and surpassed her. On the other hand. Broly completely brutalizes him without even using his highest form.

I just disagree a little about your ranking.

For me, Goku / Vegeta SSB> Rage Broly (in the summaries it is said that Goku in this form is clearly in advantage)

And on the SSB KK / SSBE, we also discussed it and I do not believe in the view of Toriyama SSB = SSB KK / SSBE. Even if they have not created both, if they are inserted in any context through TOEI / Toyotaro, they will be treated as more powerful transformations than SSB. I believe they would be level Broly SSJ

Kefla base defeated an extremely tired Goku SSG, and only Goku SSB (equally tired) was able to match the Kefla SSJ Berserker. She is not even close

And Broly did not defeat Goku SSG in base form, we know he was using another form, with yellow eyes with pupils and with larger muscles

fatigue atrophies the transformation but not enough so that the difference is abysmal.
but at least goku uses the Blueken and the UI against kefla but he will not use with broly

worse yet .. if you can not use it in base

The fact that SSB Goku extremely tired was able to rival SSJ Kefla and just used the Blue Kaioken to end the fight before he ran out of energy shows that yes, the difference was quite considerable.

The power up of SSJ Berserker made Kale able to face Goku SSG, and even so after transforming into SSB (tired), Goku was able to rival Kefla transformed (though Kefla base was defeating the SSG), showing that the power up of Blue is much higher.

So you're saying that SSB Gogeta is just barely stronger than TOP UI omen? Vados quite clearly said that Fusion combines their fusees max power and then increases their strength by dozens, so by simple Logic and the fact that Goku held his own against SS Kefla in SSB, a fusion of both Goku and Vegeta post TOP would oneshot her in base.

Also characters get stronger throughout the tournament stated several times which you seem to ignore

One shot in Base? That is a HUGE stretch. You seem to think Goku was on par with SSJ Kefla when she was stated to rival the Genki Dama and ultimately defeated SSBKKx20.


It was never explicitly stated that they got stronger throughout the tournament. Certainly not "several times." Considering that there's exactly 0 statements about Goku/Vegeta having these enormous power increases, although it is possible, they aren't supported by statements.

There's plenty of feats and indirect statements about Goku and Vegeta getting stronger throughout the ToP (outside of gaining new forms). For example SSBKKx20 Goku since ep.122 is clearly way stronger than the one from the hour special, and SSB Vegeta in ep.122 is clearly way stronger than he was at the start of the ToP.

Yes, Goku and Vegeta definitely got stronger during the ToP.

SSB KK x20 could barely touch a strongly suppressed Jiren, but in EP 123 only Goku SSB was able to face Jiren using a power that according to Vermoud, it had been a long time since he had seen it (ie, a power greater than used against UI Goku in EP 110)

And then both Goku SSB KK and Vegeta SSBE continued to face Jiren and in some moments pressing him

[LimitbreakerKrillin]

Gogeta regains his old widows peak in this scene. I think I will always prefer this design over the one that is more in line with Shintani's character sheet, simply because you can split his face vertically and can see Vegeta's face on the left side and Goku's on the right.

Spoiler:

[JazzMazz]

Gogeta regains his old widows peak in this scene. I think I will always prefer this design over the one that is more in line with Shintani's character sheet, simply because you can split his face vertically and can see Vegeta's face on the left side and Goku's on the right.

Spoiler:

What crazy fan theories are people talking about when saying this?

[Miracles]

everything seems to indicate that broly and kefla have a similar level

That's painfully generic. "look, another guy is evil just because! Oh, and he's really strong!" And it makes it that much more dumb as a character when you realize his main motivation was related to a baby crying next to him.

Him being a more sympathetic character makes him infinitely more interesting.

Broly's motivation wasn't Kakarot's crying. His motive as the Legendary destructive Super Saiyan was simply choas and he took it on with a smile.
Come on, the whole victimization skit is played out too. At least the evil chaos embracing character fits the role of legendary Super Saiyan.

all this falls apart when he loses control by the "crying" of goten, believing that it is kakarot there is no way to excuse that

Paragus in movie 8 already revealed Broly's intentions when he told Vegeta, Broly won't be content unless the entire universe is destroyed.
Baby Kakarot making infant Broly cry is part of the destined encounter the two would have down the line with Goku again, coming out on top.
You're movie 10 example of Goten reminding Broly of Goku's crying only connected it with his recent defeat by Goku [Going back to the destiny tie-in theme]. Broly was just a straight up menace.

[PFM18]

And on the SSB KK / SSBE, we also discussed it and I do not believe in the view of Toriyama SSB = SSB KK / SSBE. Even if they have not created both, if they are inserted in any context through TOEI / Toyotaro, they will be treated as more powerful transformations than SSB. I believe they would be level Broly SSJ

As far as Toriyama is concerned they were using their full-power, and so naturally that would be equivalent to their full power in the anime of SSBKK/SSBE.

but in EP 123 only Goku SSB was able to face Jiren using a power that according to Vermoud, it had been a long time since he had seen it

and then he fought evenly with him for literally 15-30 seconds before getting his ass kicked.

And again, I was asking for statements, since somebody made a claim that there were statements supporting it.

[Melkaniator]

https://image-cdn.hypb.st/https%3A%2F%2 ... 90&fit=max

Looks fanmade.

It'll look better from time to time fortunately, can't wait to move away from this art style, the animation is pretty good though.