cantwaitanymore wrote:
Never hinted, implied or stated that Gogeta whooped Broly because of the ``skill advantage``, it was gone at the start of the fight vs Vegeta.
The movie doesn’t need to spell out everything for us. The fight itself very clear shows that Broly’s geniousness was overtook by his rage. You are literally the only person in this thread that is demanding such an explanation.
Hm that would be meaningful if this thread had a 100 000 people debating. instead its you and PerhapsTheOtherOne. Believe your own headcanon, but dont state it as a fact. SS Gogeta > SS Broly, and Blue Gogeta > FPSSJ Broly. It was a stomp.
Now unless you have a direct quote to provide that stated that Gogeta won only because he was more skilled, there is no need to debate this issue further, i did it already with the other guy.
cantwaitanymore wrote:
Never hinted, implied or stated that Gogeta whooped Broly because of the ``skill advantage``, it was gone at the start of the fight vs Vegeta.
The movie doesn’t need to spell out everything for us. The fight itself very clear shows that Broly’s geniousness was overtook by his rage. You are literally the only person in this thread that is demanding such an explanation.
Hm that would be meaningful if this thread had a 100 000 people debating. instead its you and PerhapsTheOtherOne. Believe your own headcanon, but dont state it as a fact. SS Gogeta > SS Broly, and Blue Gogeta > FPSSJ Broly. It was a stomp.
Now unless you have a direct quote to provide that stated that Gogeta won only because he was more skilled, there is no need to debate this issue further, i did it already with the other guy.
Better put up what you put out.
Where's the direct quote that SS Gogeta was beating SS Broly only because he was stronger? Nothing you've stated has directly proven that, either.
SaiyanGod117 wrote:There's nothing concrete to say that
I mean, there's hardly anything concrete for anything. But the evidence is piling up pretty high at this point.
-Goku goes SSG against Caulifla and Kale, starts dominating him, but doesn't instantly one shot them like Jiren does to Maji Kayo or Vegeta did Frost, Tagoma, etc etc. It most certainly doesn't appear to be another realm of power like it was in BoG. Had it been the same boost, he would have instantly one shot them and been able to tank all of their attacks.
-Goku's SSG is inferior to a Base fusion, when that wasn't the case in BoG. In other words, we saw that SSG>>potara and now we see that potara>>SSG
-Ikari Broly is 10x Base, and yet this boost was able to help him bridge the gap between SSJ->SSG, and that wouldn't be possible if it was the same boost.
And there's really no holes in this because SSG hasn't been portrayed as that strong since BoG itself, so there's no contradiction here. And again, it makes a lot of intuitive sense considering that Goku has already merged with the power of SSG, so using it again shouldn't give the same boost.
it goes from being weaker than FF Frieza to stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks to stronger than SSG to stronger than SSB to everything in between.
Well, he's never portrayed as stronger than SSG or stronger than SSB in Base, so I'm not sure why you say that. Nor is he ever portrayed as "everything in between." He was below Namek Freeza, then the absorption scene happened, and he was able to entertain Beerus in battle, fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks, fight a vastly improved Good Buu in Base, and his equal, Base Vegeta was able to destroy the entire ROSAT just from powering up inside it, where as Super Buu could only manage to tear a small hole in it. We never really see any divergence from Goku just being extremely strong in his Base form.
Additionally, fusion must have been retconned, since before Goku implied a fusion wouldn't be a match for heavily suppressed Beerus. Whereas, now we see a fusion of two far weaker characters far exceed the power of SSG in base and approach God of Destruction level in SSJ2.
I think the most logical conclusion is that in terms of multipliers: SSG(post-ritual)>>>>>>SSG(pre-ritual) rather than just kind of assuming that fusion has been retconned.
Well I disagree, but I can't debate this any further anymore.
Hugo Boss wrote:
The movie doesn’t need to spell out everything for us. The fight itself very clear shows that Broly’s geniousness was overtook by his rage. You are literally the only person in this thread that is demanding such an explanation.
Hm that would be meaningful if this thread had a 100 000 people debating. instead its you and PerhapsTheOtherOne. Believe your own headcanon, but dont state it as a fact. SS Gogeta > SS Broly, and Blue Gogeta > FPSSJ Broly. It was a stomp.
Now unless you have a direct quote to provide that stated that Gogeta won only because he was more skilled, there is no need to debate this issue further, i did it already with the other guy.
Better put up what you put out.
Where's the direct quote that SS Gogeta was beating SS Broly only because he was stronger? Nothing you've stated has directly proven that, either.
Why would a fighter beating another fighter need a direct quote? This isnt Naruto. The stronger fighter wins the fight. If it was due to skill, we probably wouldve seen Whis comment something along those lines. Also as i have said before, previous fight vs Goku shows how even when a bit weaker he can pummel Goku a bunch, so if he was equal to Gogeta, he wouldve been stomping him even more than he did Goku. But we had this debate already, you can disagree, just no point in doing this perpetually. You are actually acting like I'm saying something extremely controversial, while in reality its the oposite.
cantwaitanymore wrote:
Hm that would be meaningful if this thread had a 100 000 people debating. instead its you and PerhapsTheOtherOne. Believe your own headcanon, but dont state it as a fact. SS Gogeta > SS Broly, and Blue Gogeta > FPSSJ Broly. It was a stomp.
Now unless you have a direct quote to provide that stated that Gogeta won only because he was more skilled, there is no need to debate this issue further, i did it already with the other guy.
Better put up what you put out.
Where's the direct quote that SS Gogeta was beating SS Broly only because he was stronger? Nothing you've stated has directly proven that, either.
Why would a fighter beating another fighter need a direct quote? This isnt Naruto. The stronger fighter wins the fight. If it was due to skill, we probably wouldve seen Whis comment something along those lines. Also as i have said before, previous fight vs Goku shows how even when a bit weaker he can pummel Goku a bunch, so if he was equal to Gogeta, he wouldve been stomping him even more than he did Goku. But we had this debate already, you can disagree, just no point in doing this perpetually. You are actually acting like I'm saying something extremely controversial, while in reality its the oposite.
It's because you act like your interpretation is the immutable truth, as though you "deserve" to be right for "seeing the truth as it is".
First of all, that's particularly arrogant. Second, it's clear that enough people disagree that you can't simply claim what you saw and interpreted as fact, especially since we've brought up multiple counter instances that you brushed off because they didn't fit your own personal view. We've done the same to you, but the difference is that we didn't say that what happened in our view was factual straight-up, we argued why we thought it was.
To me it was perfectly clear, Gogeta Blue can make Broly his maid. It they were equal in strenght, then crazy shirtless Jiren is MUI Goku's owner and should get him a leash.
SaiyanGod117 wrote:There's nothing concrete to say that
I mean, there's hardly anything concrete for anything. But the evidence is piling up pretty high at this point.
-Goku goes SSG against Caulifla and Kale, starts dominating him, but doesn't instantly one shot them like Jiren does to Maji Kayo or Vegeta did Frost, Tagoma, etc etc. It most certainly doesn't appear to be another realm of power like it was in BoG. Had it been the same boost, he would have instantly one shot them and been able to tank all of their attacks.
-Goku's SSG is inferior to a Base fusion, when that wasn't the case in BoG. In other words, we saw that SSG>>potara and now we see that potara>>SSG
-Ikari Broly is 10x Base, and yet this boost was able to help him bridge the gap between SSJ->SSG, and that wouldn't be possible if it was the same boost.
And there's really no holes in this because SSG hasn't been portrayed as that strong since BoG itself, so there's no contradiction here. And again, it makes a lot of intuitive sense considering that Goku has already merged with the power of SSG, so using it again shouldn't give the same boost.
it goes from being weaker than FF Frieza to stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks to stronger than SSG to stronger than SSB to everything in between.
Well, he's never portrayed as stronger than SSG or stronger than SSB in Base, so I'm not sure why you say that. Nor is he ever portrayed as "everything in between." He was below Namek Freeza, then the absorption scene happened, and he was able to entertain Beerus in battle, fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks, fight a vastly improved Good Buu in Base, and his equal, Base Vegeta was able to destroy the entire ROSAT just from powering up inside it, where as Super Buu could only manage to tear a small hole in it. We never really see any divergence from Goku just being extremely strong in his Base form.
Additionally, fusion must have been retconned, since before Goku implied a fusion wouldn't be a match for heavily suppressed Beerus. Whereas, now we see a fusion of two far weaker characters far exceed the power of SSG in base and approach God of Destruction level in SSJ2.
I think the most logical conclusion is that in terms of multipliers: SSG(post-ritual)>>>>>>SSG(pre-ritual) rather than just kind of assuming that fusion has been retconned.
Well I disagree, but I can't debate this any further anymore.
lol okay? I don't think there's much to debate honestly. Fusion definitely hasnt been retconned in the respect you were arguing.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
I didnt write him any insults... why are u so sensitive
Again, stop with the needless antagonism. It has nothing to do with 'sensitivity' and has everything to do with maturity and conduct. The way you are acting isn't an acceptable way to go about discussion or debate in a forums. You are also being extremely hypocritical saying to not use headcannon as a fact when you're doing just that. Gogeta and Vegetto have the perfect unity of body and mind, experience and skill. Goku already learns people's fighting styles to try and develop strategies to win. He's done this multiple times. And there's no reason to assume Gogeta wouldn't do the same thing. Fighting an out of control behemoth, who isn't thinking clearly, is easy to overpower with skill and experience. Which Gogeta did.
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Better put up what you put out.
Where's the direct quote that SS Gogeta was beating SS Broly only because he was stronger? Nothing you've stated has directly proven that, either.
Why would a fighter beating another fighter need a direct quote? This isnt Naruto. The stronger fighter wins the fight. If it was due to skill, we probably wouldve seen Whis comment something along those lines. Also as i have said before, previous fight vs Goku shows how even when a bit weaker he can pummel Goku a bunch, so if he was equal to Gogeta, he wouldve been stomping him even more than he did Goku. But we had this debate already, you can disagree, just no point in doing this perpetually. You are actually acting like I'm saying something extremely controversial, while in reality its the oposite.
It's because you act like your interpretation is the immutable truth, as though you "deserve" to be right for "seeing the truth as it is".
First of all, that's particularly arrogant. Second, it's clear that enough people disagree that you can't simply claim what you saw and interpreted as fact, especially since we've brought up multiple counter instances that you brushed off because they didn't fit your own personal view. We've done the same to you, but the difference is that we didn't say that what happened in our view was factual straight-up, we argued why we thought it was.
It a fact that Gogeta stomped Broly to anyone that watched the movie. i provided factual quotes. Nowhere did it say that his rage hindered his fighting. I'm done discussing this topic as we have already posted literally everything there is about it.
Also, if you want to go the route of hey look at me i got people agreeing with me, well then look at every spoiler review, look at all the comments on youtube, generaly everything regarding the fight, look at other forums etc. Everyone agrees it was a stomp.
But here is another thing. Lets pretend for a second that in the movie Whis had a quote that goes something like this: ``Wow, his skill is worlds above Broly`` it still isnt any kind of proof that they are equal.
Broly powered up in his SSJ after getting blasted and later powered up immensly after the soul punisher. And he got owned even harder both times.
You completely view the movie your own way, and i remember you stating that when Broly powered up in FPSSJ with the huge green aura pulsing, you were saying he didnt power up, even though its about as obvious as a power up can get. He was squeaking his teeth because he got whooped and then he powered up a huge amount, and lost even harder.
If they were equal the movie would have reflected that.
Last edited by cantwaitanymore on Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
PFM18 wrote:
I mean, there's hardly anything concrete for anything. But the evidence is piling up pretty high at this point.
-Goku goes SSG against Caulifla and Kale, starts dominating him, but doesn't instantly one shot them like Jiren does to Maji Kayo or Vegeta did Frost, Tagoma, etc etc. It most certainly doesn't appear to be another realm of power like it was in BoG. Had it been the same boost, he would have instantly one shot them and been able to tank all of their attacks.
-Goku's SSG is inferior to a Base fusion, when that wasn't the case in BoG. In other words, we saw that SSG>>potara and now we see that potara>>SSG
-Ikari Broly is 10x Base, and yet this boost was able to help him bridge the gap between SSJ->SSG, and that wouldn't be possible if it was the same boost.
And there's really no holes in this because SSG hasn't been portrayed as that strong since BoG itself, so there's no contradiction here. And again, it makes a lot of intuitive sense considering that Goku has already merged with the power of SSG, so using it again shouldn't give the same boost.
Well, he's never portrayed as stronger than SSG or stronger than SSB in Base, so I'm not sure why you say that. Nor is he ever portrayed as "everything in between." He was below Namek Freeza, then the absorption scene happened, and he was able to entertain Beerus in battle, fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks, fight a vastly improved Good Buu in Base, and his equal, Base Vegeta was able to destroy the entire ROSAT just from powering up inside it, where as Super Buu could only manage to tear a small hole in it. We never really see any divergence from Goku just being extremely strong in his Base form.
I think the most logical conclusion is that in terms of multipliers: SSG(post-ritual)>>>>>>SSG(pre-ritual) rather than just kind of assuming that fusion has been retconned.
Well I disagree, but I can't debate this any further anymore.
lol okay? I don't think there's much to debate honestly. Fusion definitely hasnt been retconned in the respect you were arguing.
Again, I disagree, none of your points are airtight or correct as you think they are. Besides, it's not that I don't want to debate, I don't have time for it, plus I'm on mobile for the time being, and it's far too tedious to break down your post, grab images, or anything similar if need be.
cantwaitanymore wrote:Now unless you have a direct quote to provide that stated that Gogeta won only because he was more skilled
Gogeta’s movements speak for themselves. It doesn’t need to be told. Check the fight again and you will see that when they use ki blasts or clash fists, they are equally matched. Gogeta only needs to avoid the big attacks and throw Broly off balance continuously to connect several combos. It took two finishing moves to weaken Broly and Gogeta was even serious about killing him with the kamehameha. Stomping would be Goku vs. Ginyu Force, Gohan vs. Cell or Gohan vs. Boo.
cantwaitanymore wrote:
Why would a fighter beating another fighter need a direct quote? This isnt Naruto. The stronger fighter wins the fight. If it was due to skill, we probably wouldve seen Whis comment something along those lines. Also as i have said before, previous fight vs Goku shows how even when a bit weaker he can pummel Goku a bunch, so if he was equal to Gogeta, he wouldve been stomping him even more than he did Goku. But we had this debate already, you can disagree, just no point in doing this perpetually. You are actually acting like I'm saying something extremely controversial, while in reality its the oposite.
It's because you act like your interpretation is the immutable truth, as though you "deserve" to be right for "seeing the truth as it is".
First of all, that's particularly arrogant. Second, it's clear that enough people disagree that you can't simply claim what you saw and interpreted as fact, especially since we've brought up multiple counter instances that you brushed off because they didn't fit your own personal view. We've done the same to you, but the difference is that we didn't say that what happened in our view was factual straight-up, we argued why we thought it was.
It a fact that Gogeta stomped Broly to anyone that watched the movie. i provided factual quotes. Nowhere did it say that his rage hindered his fighting. I'm done discussing this topic as we have already posted literally everything there is about it.
Also, if you want to go the route of hey look at me i got people agreeing with me, well then look at every spoiler review, look at all the comments on youtube, generaly everything regarding the fight, look at other forums etc. Everyone agrees it was a stomp.
But here is another thing. Lets pretend for a second that in the movie Whis had a quote that goes something like this: ``Wow, his skill is worlds above Broly`` it still isnt any kind of proof that they are equal.
Broly powered up in his SSJ after getting blasted and later powered up immensly after the soul punisher. And he got owned even harder both times.
You completely view the movie your own way, and i remember you stating that when Broly powered up in FPSSJ with the huge green aura pulsing, you were saying he didnt power up, even though its about as obvious as a power up can get. He was squeaking his teeth because he got whooped and then he powered up a huge amount, and lost even harder.
If they were equal the movie would have reflected that.
But we aren't talking about other people outside of this place, we're talking about here. Let's keep the affairs of other boards out of this, just out of courtesy and respecting their rules.
Anyways, it is a FACT that you THINK it's a fact that what you saw and stated on the matter is the objective truth. If you'd just admit that what you're saying is in fact just how you view things and didn't try and pull the "you're objectively wrong because you didn't agree with my obviously factual view", we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just don't use that argument, and we'll debate and squabble along just fine, alright? You're just someone who watched the film and thought about what you saw in a certain way. Don't act like we're somehow "missing the entire point and getting everything wrong". If we were doing that, we'd be claiming clearly wrong claims like "Whis was faking easily dodging Broly" and "Vegeta's character is clearly ruined because he didn't like having to do Fusion Dance".
If you're not one of the film's creators or one of the informed Kanzenshuu staff, don't presume that your view on the matter is the more correct one.
Hopefully, I've gotten through to you that perhaps you're not the foremost authority on what is or isn't objectively true and thus shouldn't try that one on us.
Maybe now we can debate PROPERLY and not deal with this "debate about debating".
====
On Broly's "power-up", let's break it down:
[*]Everytime Broly has actually factually gotten stronger, he either had the orange irises show up, a change in his physical form, the glowing red eyes of an Oozaru, or a combination of the above
[*]The above holds true for Broly's initial power-up that let him take on SS Vegeta in his base form, his first Oozaru boost against SSG Vegeta, his second Oozaru boost/transformation when Goku decided to join the fight, his transformation into a Super Saiyan, and his third Oozaru boost/transformation into Full-Power Super Saiyan
[*]None of the conditions from the first point are represented during the instance you claim is where Broly "powers up" against SSB Gogeta
[*]This sequence more closely resembles an extended screaming version of when characters flare up their auras in a form to "power up" but not get stronger than they normally are if their auras weren't up before, i.e. SSG Vegeta, SSB Gogeta, etc.
[*]Ergo, by simple process of Occam's Razor through this analysis, Broly most likely did not power up again after the initial transformation into Full-Power Super Saiyan and instead powered up to full again
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
It's because you act like your interpretation is the immutable truth, as though you "deserve" to be right for "seeing the truth as it is".
First of all, that's particularly arrogant. Second, it's clear that enough people disagree that you can't simply claim what you saw and interpreted as fact, especially since we've brought up multiple counter instances that you brushed off because they didn't fit your own personal view. We've done the same to you, but the difference is that we didn't say that what happened in our view was factual straight-up, we argued why we thought it was.
It a fact that Gogeta stomped Broly to anyone that watched the movie. i provided factual quotes. Nowhere did it say that his rage hindered his fighting. I'm done discussing this topic as we have already posted literally everything there is about it.
Also, if you want to go the route of hey look at me i got people agreeing with me, well then look at every spoiler review, look at all the comments on youtube, generaly everything regarding the fight, look at other forums etc. Everyone agrees it was a stomp.
But here is another thing. Lets pretend for a second that in the movie Whis had a quote that goes something like this: ``Wow, his skill is worlds above Broly`` it still isnt any kind of proof that they are equal.
Broly powered up in his SSJ after getting blasted and later powered up immensly after the soul punisher. And he got owned even harder both times.
You completely view the movie your own way, and i remember you stating that when Broly powered up in FPSSJ with the huge green aura pulsing, you were saying he didnt power up, even though its about as obvious as a power up can get. He was squeaking his teeth because he got whooped and then he powered up a huge amount, and lost even harder.
If they were equal the movie would have reflected that.
But we aren't talking about other people outside of this place, we're talking about here. Let's keep the affairs of other boards out of this, just out of courtesy and respecting their rules.
Anyways, it is a FACT that you THINK it's a fact that what you saw and stated on the matter is the objective truth. If you'd just admit that what you're saying is in fact just how you view things and didn't try and pull the "you're objectively wrong because you didn't agree with my obviously factual view", we wouldn't be having this conversation. Just don't use that argument, and we'll debate and squabble along just fine, alright? You're just someone who watched the film and thought about what you saw in a certain way. Don't act like we're somehow "missing the entire point and getting everything wrong". If we were doing that, we'd be claiming clearly wrong claims like "Whis was faking easily dodging Broly" and "Vegeta's character is clearly ruined because he didn't like having to do Fusion Dance".
If you're not one of the film's creators or one of the informed Kanzenshuu staff, don't presume that your view on the matter is the more correct one.
Hopefully, I've gotten through to you that perhaps you're not the foremost authority on what is or isn't objectively true and thus shouldn't try that one on us.
Maybe now we can debate PROPERLY and not deal with this "debate about debating".
====
On Broly's "power-up", let's break it down:
[*]Everytime Broly has actually factually gotten stronger, he either had the orange irises show up, a change in his physical form, the glowing red eyes of an Oozaru, or a combination of the above
[*]The above holds true for Broly's initial power-up that let him take on SS Vegeta in his base form, his first Oozaru boost against SSG Vegeta, his second Oozaru boost/transformation when Goku decided to join the fight, his transformation into a Super Saiyan, and his third Oozaru boost/transformation into Full-Power Super Saiyan
[*]None of the conditions from the first point are represented during the instance you claim is where Broly "powers up" against SSB Gogeta
[*]This sequence more closely resembles an extended screaming version of when characters flare up their auras in a form to "power up" but not get stronger than they normally are if their auras weren't up before, i.e. SSG Vegeta, SSB Gogeta, etc.
[*]Ergo, by simple process of Occam's Razor through this analysis, Broly most likely did not power up again after the initial transformation into Full-Power Super Saiyan and instead powered up to full again
I'll see about breaking down the rest later.
I'm not gonna bother replying further, so no need to quote me anymore on this subject.
I'd say it's pretty straightforward that Broly's full power form is as strong as the guy gets. That screaming sequence at the end is contextually more indicative of him running on fumes rather than exceeding his own power.
Marlowe89 wrote:I'd say it's pretty straightforward that Broly's full power form is as strong as the guy gets. That screaming sequence at the end is contextually more indicative of him running on fumes rather than exceeding his own power.
Marlowe89 wrote:I'd say it's pretty straightforward that Broly's full power form is as strong as the guy gets. That screaming sequence at the end is contextually more indicative of him running on fumes rather than exceeding his own power.
Yeah, I agree.
It's his..... "Desperate Assault"!
Audience: BOO!
Ban him! Ban him, I say! Else this may be the start of an.....Omen of Battle.
Can we use Gogeta's performance in the movie to definitively say Base fusion, no matter which, is above God now?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Can we use Gogeta's performance in the movie to definitively say Base fusion, no matter which, is above God now?
Right now, if it's a perfect Fusion, it is.
However, I believe that this wouldn't have been the case if Goku and Vegeta didn't know how to use God Ki and in turn the god forms. Basically, if Goku and Vegeta never learned any equivalent to the god-forms beforehand, then Gogeta and Vegito wouldn't have been able to match or surpass that level in their base forms.
ekrolo2 wrote:Can we use Gogeta's performance in the movie to definitively say Base fusion, no matter which, is above God now?
Well, referencing God specifically is kind of arbitrary. It seems the Base fusion is just stronger than the fusee's max power. In this case, Base Gogeta>SSB Goku/Vegeta
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
