Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
- sumpter360
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: St. Peters, MO - Currently applying for Residency at Hinata Apartments :)
Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
I'm rewatching my old Dragon Ball Kai Blu-rays and boy, does the picture look soft!
Did we ever get confirmation that the original Z footage used was actually remastered at 1080p for this release? Or is it just 480p footage color-corrected and upscaled to HD?
EDIT:
I made a frame-compare of the shot where Goku "saves" Gohan from the waterfall in DBZ episode 1, comparing the Dragon Box Z, Kai, and FUNi 30th footage. I zoomed as best I could to match the 30th set, so that all you're comparing is the remaster visual style, clarity, colors, etc. If anyone else is interested
EDIT 2: I decided to edit the first Frame-Compare to include the FUNimation Raw Film screenshot as well. I've included that zoomed to match the most zoomed release (which, in the case of the first screen, is the FUNi 30th Ann) plus I threw in the raw, full-size, just for kicks.
I think I'm going to do this with as many of the screens we get from all 4 of these sources. I'll edit this post as I finish more.
I'm probably having too much fun with this
Goku and Gohan: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/EJFFNNNU
Freeza: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/EJF1NNNU
Did we ever get confirmation that the original Z footage used was actually remastered at 1080p for this release? Or is it just 480p footage color-corrected and upscaled to HD?
EDIT:
I made a frame-compare of the shot where Goku "saves" Gohan from the waterfall in DBZ episode 1, comparing the Dragon Box Z, Kai, and FUNi 30th footage. I zoomed as best I could to match the 30th set, so that all you're comparing is the remaster visual style, clarity, colors, etc. If anyone else is interested
EDIT 2: I decided to edit the first Frame-Compare to include the FUNimation Raw Film screenshot as well. I've included that zoomed to match the most zoomed release (which, in the case of the first screen, is the FUNi 30th Ann) plus I threw in the raw, full-size, just for kicks.
I think I'm going to do this with as many of the screens we get from all 4 of these sources. I'll edit this post as I finish more.
I'm probably having too much fun with this
Goku and Gohan: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/EJFFNNNU
Freeza: http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/EJF1NNNU
Last edited by sumpter360 on Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
I am neither subbie nor dubbie, I am all that is good: I am a FANBOY!
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.
However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.
16mm:
35mm:
So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.
However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.
16mm:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.
Deadtuber.
Deadtuber.
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
What Ajay said. That run of episodes is IMO the best the original show has EVER looked, because at that size of film reel you don't lose as much picture information with the DNR, so it just looks fantastic.
- linkdude20002001
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:22 pm
- Location: Marysville, Washington
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Had they not DNRd it, and had they had the goal of restoring the original colors rather than changing them to the comic’s colors, it would’ve been the untoppable best the series has ever / could ever look. But Toei can’t think ahead beyond even their noses, otherwise they would’ve had that done while Kai was being made. Or while the Dragon Box Z sets were being made. Like, the show just needs ONE good scan / clean up, and then you’re good to: throw it on DVD, throw it on BD, cut it up to make “new” shows, et cetera, all for a FAR cheaper cost than doing whole thing over from the beginning each time...
The Many English Dubs of DB, DBZ, and DBGT
Viz Release Censorship Guide
Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."
Viz Release Censorship Guide
Scsigs: "Y'know, it actually makes sense that they waited till today to announce [the 30th Anniversary] set. It's Akira Toriyama's birthday."
Shaddy: "I too want my legacy destroyed as a birthday gift."
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Say what you will about the 30th Anniversary collection, but IIRC Funi didn't make a whole new raw HD transfer for it, as they already has a good raw scan of their footage.
That said, a new HD transfer of the First-gen footage without DNR would be amazing.
That said, a new HD transfer of the First-gen footage without DNR would be amazing.
Robo4900 wrote:Mouse is BRILLIANT SCIENTIST dumb.
CAT LOVES FOOD dumb.
Jack is just kinda dumb.Spoiler:
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Kai looks blurry thanks to the awful DNR. It's still about the best the series has looked, Level Sets aside but it's far from perfect. Really IMO the best thing Kai has going for it are the colors, which really do save it but the image quality is way too soft.
- Robo4900
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4386
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
- Location: In another time and place...
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
It's only barely got a HD level of detail, though.
You can actually downscale the picture to 720p and then scale it back up to 1080 and you'll likely notice no difference.
If you scale it back to 480, there is just about a somewhat noticeable difference, but it amounts to very little; there's only barely any detail beyond standard-def in Kai.
Take a look:
1080p original
720p rescale
480p rescale
Q-TEC did a pretty awful job on Kai by applying DNR so heavily. The level of detail left in the picture really is appalling, and while there are subtle differences between these three screenshots you'll notice if you look close, I defy you to notice it watching in motion.
Q-TEC's DNR filter is better than Funi's, but like Funi, they applied it at a level far beyond reason.
I'd prefer this to something as awful as the 30th set, but... Well, I'd rather be punched in the face than stabbed in the face.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Yet another instance of trying to present DBZ (even an edited form of it) as much more modern than it actually is and falling flat on their face.
- sumpter360
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: St. Peters, MO - Currently applying for Residency at Hinata Apartments :)
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Yeah, seeing that comparison of the 1080 vs 720 vs 480 is the confirmation I was looking for, and why it's understandable that I thought it was just upscaled 480p footage. I'd like to see some comparisons of FUNi's 30th set to Kai in 1080p.
I am neither subbie nor dubbie, I am all that is good: I am a FANBOY!
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
- JohnnyCashKami
- Temporarily Banned
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
- sumpter360
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: St. Peters, MO - Currently applying for Residency at Hinata Apartments :)
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Shame the whole series cannot be watched with Yamamoto's score... I rather liked it, honestly.JohnnyCashKami wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
I am neither subbie nor dubbie, I am all that is good: I am a FANBOY!
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
- JohnnyCashKami
- Temporarily Banned
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
You can up to episode 95 but just not legally.sumpter360 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:52 pmShame the whole series cannot be watched with Yamamoto's score... I rather liked it, honestly.JohnnyCashKami wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Amazing how some music can make the picture look better!JohnnyCashKami wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
Here you go, from a recent thread that wanted to compare ALL releases. My verdict is that the Black Brick picture is sharper, but more zoomed in compared to Kai and has watercolour smearing on the background paintings. Kai also has a more accurate white balance IMO.sumpter360 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:40 pm Yeah, seeing that comparison of the 1080 vs 720 vs 480 is the confirmation I was looking for, and why it's understandable that I thought it was just upscaled 480p footage. I'd like to see some comparisons of FUNi's 30th set to Kai in 1080p.
Spoiler:
- Tylerman29
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 pm
- Location: Portland, Oregon
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Damn Kai might be a little soft but boy did they do a good job with the remaster. If only the redrawn stuff wasn't so distracting.
DB, Z, and GT subbed are my "canon".
SSJ4 > Any transformation in Super.
SSJ4 > Any transformation in Super.
- JohnnyCashKami
- Temporarily Banned
- Posts: 1597
- Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
K. I goofed up but you make a good point, if I was watching a picture or a slideshow of Dragon Ball Z with the limited Kikuchi score I'd hate it but if it was with the proper Kikuchi Z score or the Yamamoto score then I'd love it.KBABZ wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:07 pmAmazing how some music can make the picture look better!JohnnyCashKami wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:38 pm A compressed JPEG image does not actually show the true quality but rather gives a rough idea of what it looks like. Dragon Ball Kai in its untouched HD quality looks gorgeous and even moreso with the cinematic and atmospheric Kenji Yamamoto score.
Dragon Ball Kai does have a soft image but it still remains as one of the best HD remasters of Dragon Ball Z. I kind of hope that TOEI isn't remastering Z because if it's similar to the TV SP2 remaster style.. might as well just watch the Dragon Boxes Z or the Level Sets instead. I mean, it ain't bad but it's not that great either.
- sumpter360
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: St. Peters, MO - Currently applying for Residency at Hinata Apartments :)
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
I edited my initial post adding a compare of the Freeza image.
Also, TL;DR I've decided to make more frame-compares of the screens where we have it from all 4 sources: DBox, Kai, Black Brick, and FUNi Raw Film. I love seeing the comparisons, as well as making them, so I hope y'all do too
Also, TL;DR I've decided to make more frame-compares of the screens where we have it from all 4 sources: DBox, Kai, Black Brick, and FUNi Raw Film. I love seeing the comparisons, as well as making them, so I hope y'all do too
I am neither subbie nor dubbie, I am all that is good: I am a FANBOY!
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
I mean we have an existing thread for that! viewtopic.php?f=7&t=43842sumpter360 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:32 pm I edited my initial post adding a compare of the Freeza image.
Also, TL;DR I've decided to make more frame-compares of the screens where we have it from all 4 sources: DBox, Kai, Black Brick, and FUNi Raw Film. I love seeing the comparisons, as well as making them, so I hope y'all do too
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
What do you think about this? I tried to eliminate the blur and upscaled itAjay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.
However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.
16mm:35mm:Spoiler:So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Other examples
Spoiler:
- sumpter360
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 478
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: St. Peters, MO - Currently applying for Residency at Hinata Apartments :)
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Mmm I love it! Make that into a script I could run my episodes through, and I'd have a new preferred version for watching!Trachta10 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:47 amWhat do you think about this? I tried to eliminate the blur and upscaled itAjay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.
However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.
16mm:35mm:Spoiler:So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.Spoiler:
*snip*
I am neither subbie nor dubbie, I am all that is good: I am a FANBOY!
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
PSN ID (on PS4): sumpter360
YouTube Account: TheDbG33K
Twitter Account: https://twitter.com/dbG33K
Tumblr Blog: http://g33kout.tumblr.com
Re: Toei's Dragon Ball Kai remaster
Whoa. That looks a helluva lot better than a standard sharpening filter. What did you do?!Trachta10 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:47 amWhat do you think about this? I tried to eliminate the blur and upscaled itAjay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:42 pm The majority of Dragon Ball Z was shot on 16mm film compared to the more standard 35mm. QTEC who remastered the series applied some fairly liberal DNR to the footage, which when combined with the already smaller format 16mm film resulted in pretty soft overall image quality.
However, there were a few episodes of Z shot on 35mm film, and in Kai, those episodes are pretty damn sharp as a result.
16mm:35mm:Spoiler:So in answer to your question: yes, it's true HD, it's just not the sharpest thing ever on the whole.Spoiler:
zoomSpoiler:Spoiler:
Other examplesSpoiler:
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler