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That in of itself is another example of Super's horrible writing when it comes to power levels.
That’s Present Zamasu. Future Zamasu is 17 years older and never fought Goku as a Super Saiyan 2. It’s like comparing Future Trunks to Present Trunks.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
It's blatantly obvious that Toei wanted to involve Trunks in his own arc but realized that he would never stand a chance against Black and Zamasu without constant asspulls.The Monkey King wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:00 amThat in of itself is another example of Super's horrible writing when it comes to power levels.
Trunks went from getting the shit kicked out of him by base black to being able to hold off SSJR Black for no reason at all
There is no consistency in this show, having a character be "SSJB level" means absolutely nothing.
Interesting, while it wasn't your intention, you reminded me of the fact that Future Zamasu was always careless. He didn't think anyone was a threat to him, as he was immortal and quite powerful in his own right. The only time he truly realized the threat mortals posed was when Trunks used the Mafuba on him. That's the first time when he dropped his absurd arrogance and aknowledged that his opponents posed an actual threat.So, Zamas felt Goku was a threat with just SS2 but he is SSBlue level? Is SS Trunks at SSBlue level too?
In that example, that has more to do with Trunks being powered up then Super's scaling since everyone was fine in terms of scaling.The Monkey King wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:00 amThat in of itself is another example of Super's horrible writing when it comes to power levels.
Trunks went from getting the shit kicked out of him by base black to being able to hold off SSJR Black for no reason at all
There is no consistency in this show, having a character be "SSJB level" means absolutely nothing.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
That is the inconsistency I'm talking about with TOEI. Trunks never did that again to Black as a Super Saiyan but gets pwned.HeroR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 am
Yes, Future Zamasu in the anime is Blue level. People who keep using how he got beat up by Super Saiyan Trunks always ignores that Trunks did this Black: https://youtu.be/vYzvTXMo02k?t=82
It is an inconsistency, I agree, days ago or a day ago or whatever time Trunks spent in the past, SS Trunks couldn't touch base Black, and his father as a SSB was almost killed by Rose Black moments ago.Miracles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:52 pmThat is the inconsistency I'm talking about with TOEI. Trunks never did that again to Black as a Super Saiyan but gets pwned.HeroR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 am
Yes, Future Zamasu in the anime is Blue level. People who keep using how he got beat up by Super Saiyan Trunks always ignores that Trunks did this Black: https://youtu.be/vYzvTXMo02k?t=82
It's ludicrous how people complain about TOEI's bad writing, yet try to use it for accurate scaling. We know for a fact in both anime and manga plot lines that SSJ Trunks beats future Zamasu.Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:59 pmIt is an inconsistency, I agree, days ago or a day ago or whatever time Trunks spent in the past, SS Trunks couldn't touch base Black, and his father as a SSB was almost killed by Rose Black moments ago.Miracles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:52 pmThat is the inconsistency I'm talking about with TOEI. Trunks never did that again to Black as a Super Saiyan but gets pwned.HeroR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 am
Yes, Future Zamasu in the anime is Blue level. People who keep using how he got beat up by Super Saiyan Trunks always ignores that Trunks did this Black: https://youtu.be/vYzvTXMo02k?t=82
We have reasons to believe Trunks differs greatly from his counterpart. There are none in relation to Zamas. Future Zamas never needed to be that strong to begin with.
1. A) SSB Goku was explicitly holding back against Krillin (this had been explained to death already). B) Android 17 himself was holding back against SSB Goku in their fight, and A17 has numerous feats & statements that show that he's SSB level in both the anime & manga. C) A17 was merely complimenting Freeza, stronger characters compliment weaker ones all the time (like Jiren complimenting SSB Vegeta). So that's a weak argument.Bullza wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:27 amA lot of characters have traded blows with people weaker than themselves. Krillin traded Kamehameha's with him. Both Android 17 and Golden Frieza have traded blows with him and the former called the latter a monster.
Zamasu was kicked around by Super Saiyan Trunks and he would have died had he not been immortal.
Rage Trunks kicked Zamasu once and he was pretty much out of it while he went back to actually trading blows with Goku Black.
The same thing happened in the second fight. Trunks blasts Zamasu once and sends him away while he was Goku Black. Zamasu only then fights him when Trunks has exhausted himself and he reverts back to Super Saiyan and even then he can't finish him off.
He's a weakling in both the anime and the manga.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Base Black when Vegeta 1st fights him =/= Base Black in his previous appearances. They are not the same levels of strength, and Black was stated to rapidly be getting stronger throught the arc. So no, its not an inconsistency.Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:59 pmIt is an inconsistency, I agree, days ago or a day ago or whatever time Trunks spent in the past, SS Trunks couldn't touch base Black, and his father as a SSB was almost killed by Rose Black moments ago.Miracles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:52 pmThat is the inconsistency I'm talking about with TOEI. Trunks never did that again to Black as a Super Saiyan but gets pwned.HeroR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 am
Yes, Future Zamasu in the anime is Blue level. People who keep using how he got beat up by Super Saiyan Trunks always ignores that Trunks did this Black: https://youtu.be/vYzvTXMo02k?t=82
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
The manga's scaling is even worse (especially in both the Black & ToP sagas). With nonsense like SSJ1 Black getting the upper hand on SSB Vegeta, yet getting owned by him as SSJ Rose.Miracles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:50 pmIt's ludicrous how people complain about TOEI's bad writing, yet try to use it for accurate scaling. We know for a fact in both anime and manga plot lines that SSJ Trunks beats future Zamasu.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
This is a bad argument. Nobody "needs" to be as strong as they are in the sense you are arguing, and Future Zamasu has far to many feats and statements in the anime that prove that he's SSB level.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
There's far more evidence for Future Zamasu for being SSB level in the anime than against it.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
Except why would Future Zamasu be only as little stronger than Present Zamasu when Goku said that in time Zamasu could rival Beerus? Zamasu was training the whole time to be a Supreme Kai and was dedicated to his training.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
And Trunks didn’t bully Zamasu again until he got Rage. So your point?Miracles wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:52 pmThat is the inconsistency I'm talking about with TOEI. Trunks never did that again to Black as a Super Saiyan but gets pwned.HeroR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:26 am
Yes, Future Zamasu in the anime is Blue level. People who keep using how he got beat up by Super Saiyan Trunks always ignores that Trunks did this Black: https://youtu.be/vYzvTXMo02k?t=82
Goku did blow Zamasu’s head off in 61.SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:59 pm The situation is ambiguous. You cannot ignore the first half of episode 57, where Future Zamasu is seen trading blows with Blue Goku and even overpower him for a moment. Furthermore, if Future Zamasu were just a bug compared to Goku and Vegeta, even a ki blast could blow him to smithereens, something which obviously never happened (immortality doesn't negate damage, and if Zamasu were so much weaker he wouldn't be able to brush off ki blasts from SSB level characters). And yet we also have people like Trunks who in the span of the arc went from being weaker than Base Black, to being on the level of FUSED ZAMASU. Powerscaling in this arc is a mess. It's not even explained what Trunks' new transformation is.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
To be fair it was a shot fired at point blank. Anything fired that close will do a tremendous amount of damage. That does not necessarily show that Future Zamasu wasn't around the level of a Super Saiyan Blue.Goku did blow Zamasu’s head off in 61.
I was referring to Trunks and Vegeta being able to push back Fused Zamasu's attack despite Fused Zamasu easily overpowering both of them 10 seconds earlier.Trunks was also not on the level of Merged Zamasu. He only did anything after he got the Spirit Bomb Sword.
Not saying he isn’t Blue level. Only that a normal Ki blast did ‘kill’ Zamasu.SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:13 pmTo be fair it was a shot fired at point blank. Anything fired that close will do a tremendous amount of damage. That does not necessarily show that Future Zamasu wasn't around the level of a Super Saiyan Blue.Goku did blow Zamasu’s head off in 61.I was referring to Trunks and Vegeta being able to push back Fused Zamasu's attack despite Fused Zamasu easily overpowering both of them 10 seconds earlier.Trunks was also not on the level of Merged Zamasu. He only did anything after he got the Spirit Bomb Sword.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Why wouldn't they be able to push that attack back? They put all they had at that point into the Father-Son Galick Gun.SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:13 pm
I was referring to Trunks and Vegeta being able to push back Fused Zamasu's attack despite Fused Zamasu easily overpowering both of them 10 seconds earlier.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.
Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.
