Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat May 04, 2019 3:04 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:55 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:41 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 3:26 pm

I already have.

Hits improved Time skip makes his attack "power up" since it's better and can actually hit Goku now. Doesn't mean he got stronger.

You are ignoring multiple characters stating he didnt get stronger at all and then their big power difference is pretty obvious in E40.
The "he didn't get stronger" statements were when Hit tried to power up JUST LIKE SAIYANS VIA TRANSFORMING. That screaming and yelling Hit did was trying to mimic them. However, Hit's attack strength did INDEED POWER UP WHEN HE IMPROVED HIMSELF AFTERWARDS.

This was confirmed by Goku when he said HIT's ATTACK got him real good [damaging him enough to bring him to the floor] AFTER powering up...AS EXPECTED.
No.

Goku means Hit's attack got him good because it got improved. It went from 0.1 seconds to 0.2, meaning Goku can't predict it now. It has nothing to do with strength. Even when Hit increased his Time Skip to 0.5 seconds and 1 second, not a mention of strength was made.

And you keep ignoring E40. Hit is shown to be way weaker than a exhausted KKx10 Blue Goku.
You are factually wrong and are mixing scenarios. Hit being weaker than KKX10 Blue Goku does not change the fact that Hit's strength increased.

Goku's statement about Hit's attack strength getting him good after powering up was concerning the punch. The flashback even focused on the gut punch that put him to the floor. When earlier after trying to power up like Saiyans do none of Hit's DIRECT attacks which he LANDED even affected Blue Goku.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:22 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:25 am
Power is not everything.
Yes it is in Dragonball. Don't be in denial:
viewtopic.php?t=42914
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat May 04, 2019 5:23 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:04 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:55 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:41 pm


The "he didn't get stronger" statements were when Hit tried to power up JUST LIKE SAIYANS VIA TRANSFORMING. That screaming and yelling Hit did was trying to mimic them. However, Hit's attack strength did INDEED POWER UP WHEN HE IMPROVED HIMSELF AFTERWARDS.

This was confirmed by Goku when he said HIT's ATTACK got him real good [damaging him enough to bring him to the floor] AFTER powering up...AS EXPECTED.
No.

Goku means Hit's attack got him good because it got improved. It went from 0.1 seconds to 0.2, meaning Goku can't predict it now. It has nothing to do with strength. Even when Hit increased his Time Skip to 0.5 seconds and 1 second, not a mention of strength was made.

And you keep ignoring E40. Hit is shown to be way weaker than a exhausted KKx10 Blue Goku.
You are factually wrong and are mixing scenarios. Hit being weaker than KKX10 Blue Goku does not change the fact that Hit's strength increased.

Goku's statement about Hit's attack strength getting him good after powering up was concerning the punch. The flashback even focused on the gut punch that put him to the floor. When earlier after trying to power up like Saiyans do none of Hit's DIRECT attacks which he LANDED even affected Blue Goku.
Hit is literally stated by multiple people to not get stronger after improving his time skip and hitting Goku. Only reason Goku hit the floor is because he got caught of guard.

Best to agree to disagree and move on. I'm tired of having to repeat myself.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat May 04, 2019 6:21 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:22 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 4:25 am
Power is not everything.
Yes it is in Dragonball. Don't be in denial:
viewtopic.php?t=42914
I am not in denial, but are you suggesting that power alone is the key to victory, always?

I am inclined to believe that it matters the most nowadays, however not taking into account the rest parameters of a fight is what it means to be in denial. If strategy and tactics weren't needed, then why do we still get the "Goku is a fighting genius" thing etc. ?

I mean, Ultra Instinct is pure skill. It has power, yes (because if it didn't then punching Jiren would have absolutely no effect) but in the end, Jiren with his great power, stood in awe in front of the form of Mastered Ultra Instinct.

Jiren was skilled too, but everything that Goku did was instant, without too much thought on it, instinctive, yet already planned. It kinda brought back the need for skill.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm

OK. We can move on but people should get the story straight first. The confusion is happening about characters stating Hit didn't power up. But they neglect the context of those statements. Which were concerning Hit not getting stronger through yelling the way Saiyans do for powering up. Hit himself stated he powered up his time skip. Then Goku further adds Hit's attack strength powered up as well...
So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun May 05, 2019 12:17 am

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So do you like, just materialize whenever somebody mentions Ribrianne?
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Indeed Ribrianne and Universe 2 are the main topics I like to talk about when Talk feel justified and I felt to finally get in on this discussion since it has been going on for so Long. :thumbup:
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 am

Miracles wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm
After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...
You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun May 05, 2019 3:25 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm
After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...
You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.
I went through the trouble to pick up context for you. That Goku stated Hit's attack strength increased after powering up too. As demonstrated; when before, Hit couldn't damage Goku [as the images show] but after the increase he does. The narration backs this up even more when Goku states he can only take a few more hits from Hit due to his power up.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun May 05, 2019 4:22 pm

So changing topics.

What do you guys think about Corrupted Merged Zamasu and his stamina? Was he getting weaker as he fought Vegetto or was he at full power when he faced Trunks with his Genki Sword?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun May 05, 2019 5:14 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 4:22 pm
So changing topics.

What do you guys think about Corrupted Merged Zamasu and his stamina? Was he getting weaker as he fought Vegetto or was he at full power when he faced Trunks with his Genki Sword?
Either Shin or Gowasu outright state that he is falling apart both mentally and physically, didn't they?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sun May 05, 2019 6:03 pm

Yeah, due to his partial immortality, I am inclined to believe that in terms of physical power, he was always at his peak. Zamasu could not get weaker. It was that the saiyans got very strong that he resorted in such forms (corruption, giantification etc.).

But I actually have a question as well. What happened to Goku's healing abilities as a Super Saiyan God after the movie? It was not even mentioned ever again. Why not having something unique in the form?

I even went as far to think that life risking forms (let us say an unstable KK×20 Blue, or a Power Stressed PSSJB) that draw the user's life force and shorten their lifespan in a way, could be used in conjuction with the healing abilities of SSJG to make up for sustaining the form. Now that could have been op.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon May 06, 2019 3:46 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 3:25 pm
Goku stated Hit's attack strength increased after powering up too.
That’s not exactly what Goku implied. Hit couldn’t damage Goku before, because he wasn’t able to deliver solid hits like he was doing against Vegeta with only 0.1 seconds. Once Hit “powered up” to 0.2 seconds, this particular attack went through. Goku is basically saying “his attack got me real good after he increased time-skip to 0.2 second”. He is not saying “as expected, his attack’s strength powered up”, because it would be totally different from the point that Hit and everyone else were talking about, and the original statement is not even giving that meaning.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon May 06, 2019 5:06 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 3:46 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 3:25 pm
Goku stated Hit's attack strength increased after powering up too.
That’s not exactly what Goku implied. Hit couldn’t damage Goku before, because he wasn’t able to deliver solid hits like he was doing against Vegeta with only 0.1 seconds. Once Hit “powered up” to 0.2 seconds, this particular attack went through. Goku is basically saying “his attack got me real good after he increased time-skip to 0.2 second”. He is not saying “as expected, his attack’s strength powered up”, because it would be totally different from the point that Hit and everyone else were talking about, and the original statement is not even giving that meaning.
You are not paying attention and trying to add in text...

You say: "Hit didn't deliver solid Hits before he powered up..."

The canon shows he did but were unaffective:
Image
Image
Image
In those exchanges Goku's attacks were hurting Hit. While Hit didn't damage Goku at all...

Image
Image

It's not just Time skip that improved but Hit's overall ability. Obvious by the difference in physical damage Hit is doing with his attacks from before. That's why Goku says Hit's attack got him good after powering up. You are clearly ignoring context.
Last edited by Miracles on Mon May 06, 2019 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Mon May 06, 2019 5:08 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm
After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...
You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.
Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.
Context is, before powering up Hit couldn't hit Goku as well as he did later.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Mon May 06, 2019 5:10 pm

wolflonnie wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:08 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 8:05 pm
After Hit explains how he powers up...As well as his time skip, Goku is adding to the fact that Hit's strength increased TOO. Due to that power up... Notice How Goku is talking about Hit's attack strength and not time skip for the simple fact that he is saying he can only take a few more of those hits...So the story wasn't just talking time skip increasing but attack strength as well...
You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.
Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.
How the hell does "powering up" mean only improving his Time Skip? Its like you people are reaching.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon May 06, 2019 5:18 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:10 pm
wolflonnie wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:08 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun May 05, 2019 7:40 am

You had all this trouble to pick up the frames. Yet you didn’t realize the point. Goku is not adding anything that Hit didn’t addressed. “Power up” is not referring to battle power in this context. It’s as simple as, just like Vegeta, Goku couldn’t avoid being hit. He was still planning to counter Hit by predicting where he would be after 0.2 seconds, but Hit confused him by powering up to 0.5 seconds.
Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.
How the hell does "powering up" mean only improving his Time Skip? Its like you people are reaching.
It's a mindset that is trying to be spread that Dragonball's battles is not all about Ki size but skill/technique. Which is wrong from A to Z.
Last edited by Miracles on Mon May 06, 2019 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Mon May 06, 2019 5:21 pm

Miracles wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:18 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:10 pm
wolflonnie wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 5:08 pm


Seconding this.
"His attacks after powering up got me good", context is the fact that he improved his time skip. His battle strenght is the same.
How the hell does "powering up" mean only improving his Time Skip? Its like you people are reaching.
It's a mindset that is trying to be spread that Dragonball is not all about Ki size but skill/technique. Which is wrong from A to Z.
Exactly. Dragonball is clearly one of the least skilled-based battle anime/manga out there. Way too many fans tend to project "skill" and "strategy" into many DB fights when it isn't really there.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Mon May 06, 2019 6:33 pm

There were tactics in DBS. Heck even some in DBZ.
It's about context, regarding Hit. They spend a whole deal stating he didn't power up, but he merely improved his time skip. Goku meant that now his hits are connecting better, thus inflicting more damage.
But you guys seem so hell-bent on your ideas I'll stop there :lol:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon May 06, 2019 8:52 pm

Hit's soft internal martial arts approach in the anime was something of a breath of fresh air. It's not all the time that you get to see true stylistic technical fighting like that in Dragon Ball -- or at least nothing that I'm aware of which is admittedly limited. I just wish the writers could have taken more allowances in showing the physical repercussions of the style on the one whose being attacked. You know, maybe Vegeta/Goku become disorientated from a blow to the temple or experience respiratory issues from being struck at the carotid artery.

On another subject, do most fans believe the idea that Beerus represents an ever shifting goal-post with regards to his power or is the statement about using 60% of his power in BoG no longer applicable? I know that he was compared to a tree at some point in the anime.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon May 06, 2019 9:00 pm

wolflonnie wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:33 pm
There were tactics in DBS. Heck even some in DBZ.
It's about context, regarding Hit. They spend a whole deal stating he didn't power up, but he merely improved his time skip. Goku meant that now his hits are connecting better, thus inflicting more damage.
But you guys seem so hell-bent on your ideas I'll stop there :lol:
You're making the same mistake and mixing the statements... Vados states Hit tried to mimic Goku's way of powering up. Hit confirms he tried but failed. BUT he INDEED says he became stronger...

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Please don't mix the two scenarios together where Hit didn't power up BECAUSE he tried to copy Saiyans but he did power himself up just by advancing himself later.
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