A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:47 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:27 pm
If i'm going to be watching those particular arcs with FUNi's cast then Kai is my preferred go to form of the series as far as that goes given how far superior it is script and voice wise.
Absolutely. Unlike UUE, which was just a crappy half-measure, Funi's dub of Kai actually does do a proper redub job, does some necessary recastings, generally aims for accuracy, and just a higher standard of acting, scripting, etc.
omegacwa wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:20 pm
I love how because of the Ocean Dub script errors they had to leave stuff like KAO-Ken for the rest of the dub.
That wasn't a script error, that was Barry Watson insisting on an incorrect pronunciation.
Pretty much as soon as his hands were out of the pie, this stopped.
The Westwood dub (as well as the Pioneer movie dubs) went with the proper "KAI-O KEN" pronunciation, and once Funi finally got their shit together somewhat with Kai, they pronounced it correctly too.
ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:41 pm
Does anyone know why Tree of Might was recut into episodes? Was it to pad out an order of episodes?
Kind of.
DBZ season 2 was a 30-episode order. 3 of those episodes were Tree Of Might, the other 27 were what we came to know as Saban's Z episodes 27-53.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:25 pm
Not sure if The Pioneer films utilized different voice directors than the series.

Far as I can tell Funimation had little involvement with the first three movies. They pretty much just got a Special Thanks acknowledgment
The Pioneer films basically used the series cast with a few minor switches; it looks like Laara Sadiq was unavailable for movies 1 and 2 (in the role of Chichi), so Lisa Ann Beley stepped in, and similarly Alec Willows was unavailable to dub movie 3 uncut (in the role of Oolong), so Scott McNeil stepped in.
Roshi was also recast to Don Brown for the Pioneer movies.
And a few of the henchmen in movie 3's uncut dub were different to their castings in the Saban TV version. I suppose it's also worth noting that Ward Perry's performance as Turles was very different in uncut compared to the Saban version.
But otherwise, the cast was all as you'd remember from the Saban series dub, after the recastings that took place over the course of the 53 episodes.

As for Funi's involvement... You're correct. Basically, Funi licensed Pioneer to do some uncut dubbing of Dragon Ball Z. According to an interview at the time, "[...] there are some die-hard anime fans who would really rather see the uncut version, and for that we’re working with Pioneer. Pioneer is releasing uncut versions of the episodes as well as the TV versions, so for people who want to see the show uncut, that’ll also be readily available. For the uncut versions, they do a second recording–Pioneer basically oversees the anime script, and we coordinate to some extent with them."
So essentially, the idea was that Pioneer would be doing the uncut version independent of Funi, albeit using the same Ocean cast, and underneath Funi's license to do the show.
Take heed of this, though, ladies and gentlemen; if Saban hadn't cancelled Dragon Ball Z, we'd have likely got an accurate, Pioneer dub of DBZ in the late '90s, right alongside the TV version.
But alas, it is what it is.
ABED wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:54 pm
Isn't Kameymeya how you pronounce the name of the Hawaiian king?

If so, that probably explains why they chose that pronunciation.
Nah, the king is "Kame-hame-ha".
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am
Speaking of the censorship from those days, there's actually only one instance that bugs me to this day, because of how utterly ineffective it was. HFIL? That's just funny in retrospect and, say what you will about it, it at least successfully censored out the word Hell effectively enough. Next Dimension? It's really not inaccurate, it's just a sugarcoated way to phrase it. Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.
Yeah, I always much preferred the Blue Water GT way of handling that; they would say "Hades". So, they could be told off for saying "Hell", but they were still able to communicate the same idea.
SheonGT wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:11 pm
It’s weird how it ended halfway through the Namek saga I think to complete the story arc they should’ve committed to enough episodes to complete a third edited season to finish Frieza.
The problem was that Saban decided to reshuffle their lineup in 1998, and ended up deciding to cut DBZ out, in favour of more shows that Saban themselves were producing.
Much as DBZ was an indisputable, big success, it made Saban more money to focus on stuff that they were doing themselves.
Man, an accurate uncut series dub with the Ocean cast and Pioneer at the helm alongside FUNi in the same vein as Z movies 1-3. Now that i would have liked to have seen happen. :thumbup:
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:18 pm

Kind of.
DBZ season 2 was a 30-episode order. 3 of those episodes were Tree Of Might, the other 27 were what we came to know as Saban's Z episodes 27-53.
This was in no way helpful. All it did was show us math. I know three episodes were the movie. Essentially, I'm asking if they were given an order of 30 episodes for season 2. I know that comes off as argumentative and a little testy, but it simply wasn't a helpful comment.

On another not, tt's such an odd place to end the season - in the middle of episode 67.

And I doubt the king's name was pronounced like the attack. From what I've seen and heard, the emphasis were on different syllables.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm
Absolutely. Unlike UUE, which was just a crappy half-measure
Meh. The UUE was probably the best work Funimation did with Z pre-Kai. Even if they did rely on recycling the 1996 scripts as much as possible. Dialog wise it’s not nearly as trash as episode 68-194.


does some necessary recastings
I would give Funimation more credit if it wasn’t made abundantly clear any recast was completely incidental.

If Young has been able to keep up with Kai Freeza’s dialog we would still be hearing chainsmoking granny Freeza. Just with less cringe dialog.


generally aims for accuracy, and just a higher standard of acting, scripting, etc.
That wasn't a script error, that was Barry Watson insisting on an incorrect pronunciation.
It should be said a lot of the Funimation dubs problems from the start of 1995 Dragon Ball dub all the way to GT (and arguably the UUE since it stuck close to the 96 scripts even though I believe Watson was gone by then) was because of Barry. He seemed to be heavily involved with drastically changing the series to fit whatever was cool with American kids at time.


DBZ season 2 was a 30-episode order. 3 of those episodes were Tree Of Might, the other 27 were what we came to know as Saban's Z episodes 27-53.
They could have feasibly used those extra three episodes to get to a better stopping point for season 2. Like the end of the Ginyu battle.
Take heed of this, though, ladies and gentlemen; if Saban hadn't cancelled Dragon Ball Z, we'd have likely got an accurate, Pioneer dub of DBZ in the late '90s, right alongside the TV version.
But alas, it is what it is.
Was that because Saban had cancelled Dragon Ball Z or because Funimation cut ties with Pioneer to handle their own home video distribution? Seemed like Funimation decided it wasn’t necessary.

I also want to point out nothing was stopping Funimation, once they cut ties from Saban, from doing a faithful dub with the Japanese music intact and blah blah. They didn’t anyways. Because kids would have been deprived if Goku didn’t tell Burter he ate a lot of wholesome foods.



Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am
Speaking of the censorship from those days, there's actually only one instance that bugs me to this day, because of how utterly ineffective it was. HFIL? That's just funny in retrospect and, say what you will about it, it at least successfully censored out the word Hell effectively enough
They should have completely wiped out the Ogre’s t-shirts and refer to it as the underworld. It would have fit with the afterlife being known as otherworld.

I remember being confused as hell as a kid during the Buu saga on Toonami why all the big bads in DBZ were in a place called Home for Infinite Losers.

I also don’t see the issue with the word hell in kids television in reference to the place but clearly Saban and Toonami both took issue with it.
. Next Dimension? It's really not inaccurate, it's just a sugarcoated way to phrase it.
The use of next dimension was fine when they were making it clear that’s where people who die go in the Zverse. But sometimes they did make it seem like “Don’t worry nobody dies in this story they just get stuck in other dimensions”
Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.
To be fair. Tien is the one that said it. The best excuse I could up with is he was lying to make the 5-year old on the battlefield feel better.
Robo wrote: The problem was that Saban decided to reshuffle their lineup in 1998, and ended up deciding to cut DBZ out, in favour of more shows that Saban themselves were producing.
Much as DBZ was an indisputable, big success, it made Saban more money to focus on stuff that they were doing themselves
I think SheonGT’s argument was if Funimation knew season 2 was going to be 30 episodes they should have cut enough material enough to get to the end of Namek.

They cut the Saiyan saga down to the first season order of 26 episodes just in case the show wasn’t renewed for another season. Given how uncertain Funimation was with DBZ’s prospects in the US were it seemed to reason they would want to have season 2 complete a story arc as well. Perhaps Funimation felt comfortable enough after the first season’s relatively good ratings that they wouldn’t be getting the axe and anticipated a season 3 when they started season 2.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:44 pm

Even ending on Reacoom's defeat and Vegeta's shock that Goku might be a Super Saiyan is a better ending place than in the middle of episode 67.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:59 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am
Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.
To be fair. Tien is the one that said it. The best excuse I could up with is he was lying to make the 5-year old on the battlefield feel better.
My bad, my bad - for some reason, my recollection was Nappa saying that for some reason. :crazy: At least if Tien is saying it, then yeah, there can be that rationalization if nothing else.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:59 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:07 am
Nappa's claim that the people he killed are fine because he can see their parachutes? No, not even that, as stupid as it is, really bothers me that much.
To be fair. Tien is the one that said it. The best excuse I could up with is he was lying to make the 5-year old on the battlefield feel better.
My bad, my bad - for some reason, my recollection was Nappa saying that for some reason. :crazy: At least if Tien is saying it, then yeah, there can be that rationalization if nothing else.
They did have Nappa saying dialog to ensure the audience nobody died elsewhere so maybe that’s what you were thinking of.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Kakacarrottop » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:02 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm
Perhaps Funimation felt comfortable enough after the first season’s relatively good ratings that they wouldn’t be getting the axe and anticipated a season 3 when they started season 2.
https://variety.com/1996/scene/vpage/sa ... 117466224/

This article from December 1996 suggests that DBZ had already been renewed for a second season after only 11 episodes had aired. I think that work on Season 2 would have happened in like early 1997, when the Saiyan Saga was wrapping up, and I know for a fact that later in the year is when the test dub of DB Movie 2 happened. Funi might have anticipated a Season 3 when they started Season 2, but by the time it had started airing I think they were in the process of moving things in-house. It's hard to pinpoint where the Pioneer dub would fit in all of this though.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:26 pm

Kakacarrottop wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:02 pm
It's hard to pinpoint where the Pioneer dub would fit in all of this though.
As far as I know the three movies were dubbed in 1997. I believe Dead Zone got a winter release and World’s Strongest and Tree of Might were released in spring of 1998.

I know Sleeping Princess came out in 1998, but I believe Sabat said he was hired in 1997?

I know the given reason for the Ocean cast being dropped was supposedly “without Saban’s financial backing they couldn’t afford Ocean Group” but it seemed to me Funimation just wanted complete and total control of the property.

I don’t think Sleeping Princess would have happened (at least at the time and with a local cast) if Funimation wasn’t least testing the waters to move everything in-house and handle distribution and ADR work themselves

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:30 pm

I think Dead Zone was released in Spring of 1997 then movie 3 the next year and movie 2 a few months later. Both were spring releases. And no, you aren't reading that wrong, they released movie 3 before movie 2.

MasenkoHA is correct. DB movie 2 was in fact a test run - a truly awful test run. If the question was whether they could do the dub in house, the answer is "Yes, you can physically do it, but the quality of that movie says no, you don't have the talent to do a good show".
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:42 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:30 pm

MasenkoHA is correct. DB movie 2 was in fact a test run - a truly awful test run. If the question was whether they could do the dub in house, the answer is "Yes, you can physically do it, but the quality of that movie says no, you don't have the talent to do a good show".
Ha, my thoughts exactly. I wonder how things would have gone if Funimation had the self awareness to realize their work on Sleeping Princess was embarrassing? It actually manages to be somehow worse than Dragon Ball Z season 3.

I have no idea why Funimation hasn’t gone back and redubbed it. Would have benefitted from a redub when they did Curse of the Blood Rubies with their Kai cast.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Kakacarrottop » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:46 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:26 pm
Kakacarrottop wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:02 pm
It's hard to pinpoint where the Pioneer dub would fit in all of this though.
As far as I know the three movies were dubbed in 1997. I believe Dead Zone got a winter release and World’s Strongest and Tree of Might were released in spring of 1998.

I know Sleeping Princess came out in 1998, but I believe Sabat said he was hired in 1997?
Seeing as the first Pioneer VHS tape was released in July 1997, I think we could assume the movies were recorded in mid-1997. All of Season 2 was definitely done that year (probably before the movies), since on Rock the Dragon Edition the Season 2 episodes have "© 1997 Toei Animation" in the credits, even the ones that aired in 98. Maybe Sleeping Princess was done in the fall, just as Season 2 started airing.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:47 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:39 pm
Meh. The UUE was probably the best work Funimation did with Z pre-Kai. Even if they did rely on recycling the 1996 scripts as much as possible. Dialog wise it’s not nearly as trash as episode 68-194.
I think that distinction would probably go to the dub of Movie 8.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Danfun64 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:03 pm

I honestly thought the script for Bio Broly had the most accurate script of the DBZ Movie 4-13 dubs, with Broly 1 being in second place.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:25 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:03 pm
I honestly thought the script for Bio Broly had the most accurate script of the DBZ Movie 4-13 dubs, with Broly 1 being in second place.
I've watched the movie dubs with subtitles and movie 8 is without a doubt the most accurate of the FUNi dubs. It's almost word for word the original script.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:29 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:25 pm
Danfun64 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:03 pm
I honestly thought the script for Bio Broly had the most accurate script of the DBZ Movie 4-13 dubs, with Broly 1 being in second place.
I've watched the movie dubs with subtitles and movie 8 is without a doubt the most accurate of the FUNi dubs. It's almost word for word the original script.
Funny how even in those earlier times during the Z dub's run and after they still put out things that were decent every now and then before really getting to hitting their stride with Kai and onward, the Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan dub is one of the few of the movie dubs i can watch aside from the last few recent ones that are relatively good as far as the FUNi cast goes.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:35 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:42 pm
ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:30 pm

MasenkoHA is correct. DB movie 2 was in fact a test run - a truly awful test run. If the question was whether they could do the dub in house, the answer is "Yes, you can physically do it, but the quality of that movie says no, you don't have the talent to do a good show".
Ha, my thoughts exactly. I wonder how things would have gone if Funimation had the self awareness to realize their work on Sleeping Princess was embarrassing? It actually manages to be somehow worse than Dragon Ball Z season 3.

I have no idea why Funimation hasn’t gone back and redubbed it. Would have benefitted from a redub when they did Curse of the Blood Rubies with their Kai cast.
Not to mention that Sleeping Princess and Mystical Adventure aren't even consistent with the '01 DB dub voice wise, as Goku and Bulma's voices were completely different (and most of the rest were different too) given how early they were dubbed especially the latter given that was the very first thing FUNi did in house after splitting from Saban and the syndication run of Z ending.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:36 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:29 pm
ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:25 pm
Danfun64 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:03 pm
I honestly thought the script for Bio Broly had the most accurate script of the DBZ Movie 4-13 dubs, with Broly 1 being in second place.
I've watched the movie dubs with subtitles and movie 8 is without a doubt the most accurate of the FUNi dubs. It's almost word for word the original script.
Funny how even in those earlier times during the Z dub's run and after they still put out things that were decent every now and then before really getting to hitting their stride with Kai and onward, the Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan dub is one of the few of the movie dubs i can watch aside from the last few recent ones that are relatively good as far as the FUNi cast goes.
I don't think that's a coincidence. Better scripts make for better performances. Sabat clearly loves DB and there's no doubt that's the reason for the script's fidelity to the source material.
Not to mention that Sleeping Princess and Mystical Adventure aren't even consistent with the DB series dub voice, as Goku and Bulma's voices were completely different
Yes for Goku. No for Bulma. Bulma's voice in movie 2 wasn't Vollmer, but Vollmer voiced Bulma in everything else until Kai.
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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:43 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:36 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:29 pm
ABED wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:25 pm
I've watched the movie dubs with subtitles and movie 8 is without a doubt the most accurate of the FUNi dubs. It's almost word for word the original script.
Funny how even in those earlier times during the Z dub's run and after they still put out things that were decent every now and then before really getting to hitting their stride with Kai and onward, the Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan dub is one of the few of the movie dubs i can watch aside from the last few recent ones that are relatively good as far as the FUNi cast goes.
I don't think that's a coincidence. Better scripts make for better performances. Sabat clearly loves DB and there's no doubt that's the reason for the script's fidelity to the source material.
Not to mention that Sleeping Princess and Mystical Adventure aren't even consistent with the DB series dub voice, as Goku and Bulma's voices were completely different
Yes for Goku. No for Bulma. Bulma's voice in movie 2 wasn't Vollmer, but Vollmer voiced Bulma in everything else until Kai.
Yeah, it's great how even when most of the other stuff was so different that they could sometimes still get it right script wise and be more faithful before they really got to the level that they are and have been since Kai.

Oh yeah, i knew that those two were different in Sleeping Princess due to how early on that one was done as a test prior to continuing with DBZ, it just slipped my mind that only Goku was different in both (Ceyli Delgadillo, Dende's first kid voice in the in house dub before Laura Bailey instead of Stephanie Nadolny like the series and Path to Power) while Bulma only was in the latter and they already had Tiffany Vollmer cast as her by the time Mystical Adventure was dubbed.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by omegacwa » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:46 am

Does anyone else remember when Funimation did a poll to find what voice people liked best for Dragon Ball? They had voice clips you could listen to and then you voted.

Poor Ceyli Delgadillo lost out on playing Goku, who she had already voiced.

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Re: A question to those who saw the Saban dub long after the fact

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:03 am

omegacwa wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:46 am
Does anyone else remember when Funimation did a poll to find what voice people liked best for Dragon Ball? They had voice clips you could listen to and then you voted.

Poor Ceyli Delgadillo lost out on playing Goku, who she had already voiced.
Oh wow, I forgot all about that. I think they also had up different auditions for Pilaf, Shu, and Mai during that poll.
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