SSGSS Evolution is a Disgustingly Bad, Ugly Transformation

[Aim]

SSB Evolution is a transformation that increases the user's muscle mass, but it is nowhere near the same level as the SSJ grade 2. The SSBE definitely doesn't have muscles as big as that

Spoiler:

Or this

Spoiler:

And even if it did, it was clear that this transformation did not slow the user down. The only form that slows the user down due to excessive muscle growth is the SSJ grade 3.

So ... yeah, you can dislike the transformation as much as you want, but SSBE is different from SSJ Grade 2 in all aspects, even in the way it is obtained and the concept. Except for the increase in muscle, I don't understand why they compare the two so much.

Oh please, it’s basically the same! A recolor! The transformation is terrible, it was pulled out of thin air, it’s just ugly. What’s the point in increasing muscle mass when there’s no need? The hair is larger and spikier just like Second Grade, it’s Second Grade with SSJGOD.

Power stressed forms are established to be useless early in the series, it’s also a waste of energy, what makes this any different? Sure it probably didn’t slow him down, but it basically goes against what’s been established.

This is why Toriyama needs to be more specific with what happens. I’m gonna take a quick wild guess and predict that you’re a defender of this form just because it’s Vegeta in another buff state.

The reason we ended up getting Blue evolution, is because Toei decided to go ahead and push Goku ahead of Vegeta by combining his Kaioken with Blue, despite Toriyama writing them as equals. The Black arc comes around and Toriyama still wrote them as equals, so Toei decided to temporarily write Kaioken out with the excuse that Goku couldn't control it. The tournament comes along and Toei faced the same problem, Goku and Vegeta were still being written as equals. They could've still used the excuse that he wasn't used to it, but then fans would question how that could be after training more, on top of the fact that fans would want to see Goku at his strongest against Jiren. The solution that made the most sense was to also give Vegeta something new, and like the kioken, they gave him something from his past to combine with Blue.

When it comes to Toppo, his transformation was to show how inexperienced he was as a destroyer. Unlike the others who could use their power as if it was nothing. He was forced to turn into a monster with a different personality to use it, which shows how far he has to go before he's a proper destroyer.

I understand why both forms may not be liked by everyone, but I think they were among the best things to come out of the tournament.

I know why they did it, I think it’s a stupid idea. It ends up with a bunch of plot holes and strange reasons why characters don’t use the forms.

[Grimlock]

All the new transformations from Dragon Ball Super are the pinnacle of ugliness and bad but maybe Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Evolution takes the cake as it expands upon an already terrible transformation. Not mention it also contributes to the unnecessary amount of forms for Saiyans. Exactly the ones that don't need more than what they already have.

I mean, at least the other forms have a cool concept behind them, this one doesn't have anything, not even a decent explanation was provided. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is the power of the Super Saiyan God being used while in the Super Saiyan form, so what exactly is "evolved" here? How can you possibly "evolve" that?

[Dbzfan94]

SSBE or what I like to call "Bluer" is the shittiest form among a bunch of shitty forms in Super. Which says a lot.

[Miracles]

and I have clearly said that this is not the only thing in that battle

The other was Vegeta wanting to keep his promise to Cabba.
In order for Cabba to keep his promise to Vegeta from U6 tournament. Nothing new there either.

[Aim]

what exactly is "evolved" here? How can you possibly "evolve" that?

Have Vegeta go Super Saiyan Second Grade in Blue form and call it 'Evolved'. Fans with terrible taste will eat it up like they did Super Saiyan 5 up to '10'.

[emperior]

Toppo god gives him something that he never had in the manga and that is called "presence" otherwise it would have been purely pathetic.

No one in the manga had presence. As good as the Black arc and the current Moro arc are, the manga really dropped the ball with the TOP. It was too short and everyone was just getting ringed out left and right without any proper fights, especially Toppo who was just blown off stage by Vegeta powering up. The anime on the other hand made Toppo a massive threat and Vegeta's victory over him felt like a real achievement.

In hindsight I rather have Toppo get ringed out like a punk with Jiren refusing to help him like the manga did, than having him get all powered up because of abandoning his ideals - even though he’s a GoD in training and therefore he clearly has some ideals regarding destruction.

And what did Toppo’s transformation achieve in the anime? I tell you, nothing. It’s purely filler. He knocked out Freeza a bit but then Freeza reappeared seemingly at full power the next episode. Vegeta had to “self-destruct” once again, for another pointless nostalgic callback. And what did it amount to? Nothing, because the next episode he was already back to full power to fight Jiren.

At least Toyotaro had the decency to mostly off-screen the fight between Toppo and Vegeta, and got rid of Toppo as soon as Vegeta transformed without having to needlessly extend the fight.

[Aim]

Toppo god gives him something that he never had in the manga and that is called "presence" otherwise it would have been purely pathetic.

The anime on the other hand made Toppo a massive threat and Vegeta's victory over him felt like a real achievement.

There's no reason why Toppo had to have that form when he could have been just as powerful in base using god ki. See any Gods of Destruction's having to transform?

Be grateful OP. That form is a TOEI only original creation. It's not in Toriyama's movies.

There's a chance it'll return..

[Grimlock]

Have Vegeta go Super Saiyan Second Grade in Blue form and call it 'Evolved'. Fans with terrible taste will eat it up like they did Super Saiyan 5 up to '10'.

Is this what it really is? Shouldn't then be smarter to stack the power of Super Saiyan God while in Super Saiyan 2!?

[Matches Malone]

There's no reason why Toppo had to have that form when he could have been just as powerful in base using god ki. See any Gods of Destruction's having to transform ?

His transformation was to show how inexperienced he was as a destroyer. Unlike the others who could use their power as if it was nothing, he was forced to turn into a monster with a different personality to use it, which shows how far he has to go before he's a proper destroyer.

[emperior]

There's no reason why Toppo had to have that form when he could have been just as powerful in base using god ki. See any Gods of Destruction's having to transform ?

His transformation was to show how inexperienced he was as a destroyer. Unlike the others who could use their power as if it was nothing, he was forced to turn into a monster with a different personality to use it, which shows how far he has to go before he's a proper destroyer.

That’s just your headcanon, this was never stated in the anime.

[Matches Malone]

That’s just your headcanon, this was never stated in the anime.

Wasn't it said he transformed because he was still in training ? If not then maybe I misunderstood something.

[Koitsukai]

I don't have a problem with Toppo's GoD form. Since the exhibition match he was being built up and seemed like he had something else up his sleeve, I guess all that confusion about him or Jiren played a big part too, and it was nice to see him boast about justice and stuff all along just to betray himself for more power, and not even being able to use it like he should. Jiren looking down on him was good too, he deserved the burn. I would never take an off-screen fight over an actual fight in a fighting show, though.

SSBE is another issue. It was the perfect time to introduce the perfect blue or whatever from the manga, but the worst part is that it wasn't explained at all. Not even a comment, nothing, just "oh he is stronger now, good". Didn't like the whole kazoku boost either, or the actual transformation. Why Goku didn't get it? he was the one training before the ToP, not Vegeta. I mean we know why Goku got UI, SS3, SSG and the rest didn't.
About the form, I don't know, I like the darker blue, the hair doesn't bother me much, but to me it should've gone the god-way and make him leaner like SSG. Take away the muscles that SSB bring to the table.

[Matches Malone]

SSBE is another issue. It was the perfect time to introduce the perfect blue or whatever from the manga, but the worst part is that it wasn't explained at all. Not even a comment, nothing, just "oh he is stronger now, good". Didn't like the whole kazoku boost either, or the actual transformation. Why Goku didn't get it? he was the one training before the ToP, not Vegeta.

The point of giving Vegeta a new form was to put him on Goku's level when using the Kaioken. Had Toei not jumped the gun and given Goku something not written by Toriyama, they wouldn't have had to introduce evolution in the first place.

[TheSaiyanGod]

SSB Evolution is a transformation that increases the user's muscle mass, but it is nowhere near the same level as the SSJ grade 2. The SSBE definitely doesn't have muscles as big as that

Spoiler:

Or this

Spoiler:

And even if it did, it was clear that this transformation did not slow the user down. The only form that slows the user down due to excessive muscle growth is the SSJ grade 3.

So ... yeah, you can dislike the transformation as much as you want, but SSBE is different from SSJ Grade 2 in all aspects, even in the way it is obtained and the concept. Except for the increase in muscle, I don't understand why they compare the two so much.

Oh please, it’s basically the same! A recolor! The transformation is terrible, it was pulled out of thin air, it’s just ugly. What’s the point in increasing muscle mass when there’s no need? The hair is larger and spikier just like Second Grade, it’s Second Grade with SSJGOD.

Power stressed forms are established to be useless early in the series, it’s also a waste of energy, what makes this any different? Sure it probably didn’t slow him down, but it basically goes against what’s been established.

This is why Toriyama needs to be more specific with what happens. I’m gonna take a quick wild guess and predict that you’re a defender of this form just because it’s Vegeta in another buff state.

As I said, you can dislike the transformation as much as you want, because I am not discussing whether it is beautiful or not, or its importance in the plot, I am saying that it has nothing to do with SSJ grade 2.

SSJ Grade 2 does not change the hair color, does not give pupils to the user and does not change the aura. The only similarity to the SSBE is the increase in muscle mass, and as I showed the SSBE Vegeta does not have muscles as big as SSJ Grade 2 Vegeta.

SSBE is not a power stressed form, because the goal of the transformation is not to increase the muscles to obtain more power (bigger muscles is just a consequence of using this transformation), and it has never been stated that SSBE expends a lot of energy (it's the opposite, Vegeta was able to use it even though he was almost out of power). So, other than that, there is no similarity between the two transformations.

Particularly I like SSBE (I find it visually beautiful) but this is a totally subjective point, and I'm not criticizing your subjective points (which say the form is ugly), I'm criticizing the bases you used to say that it '' break the lore '', which is not true because the intention of SSBE is not to be the godly version of SSJ grade 2, that was never said.

[Miracles]

There's a chance it'll return..

You mean TOEI's anime? Most definitely there's a chance.

[Aim]

As I said, you can dislike the transformation as much as you want, because I am not discussing whether it is beautiful or not, or its importance in the plot, I am saying that it has nothing to do with SSJ grade 2.

SSJ Grade 2 does not change the hair color, does not give pupils to the user and does not change the aura. The only similarity to the SSBE is the increase in muscle mass, and as I showed the SSBE Vegeta does not have muscles as big as SSJ Grade 2 Vegeta.

SSBE is not a power stressed form, because the goal of the transformation is not to increase the muscles to obtain more power (bigger muscles is just a consequence of using this transformation), and it has never been stated that SSBE expends a lot of energy (it's the opposite, Vegeta was able to use it even though he was almost out of power). So, other than that, there is no similarity between the two transformations.

Particularly I like SSBE (I find it visually beautiful) but this is a totally subjective point, and I'm not criticizing your subjective points (which say the form is ugly), I'm criticizing the bases you used to say that it '' break the lore '', which is not true because the intention of SSBE is not to be the godly version of SSJ grade 2, that was never said.

The similarities are the heavier aura, which Grade 2 has as well, everything else is the same except for the pupils. The hair is spiked and large just like Grade 2, the muscles are almost identical to Grade 2 except for a few shots which is just off model art. A darker aura and pupils doesn't make a form different.

If you look at all the visual features of SSGSS Evolution, you'll see it is a 'Power Stressed' form, whether Toei wants to say it is or not. This breaks the lore not because it's meant to be the godly version of Grade 2 (I said that because visually it might as well be, I never stated it was a godly Grade 2), but because first of all, what happened to being calm? Calm mind, calm spirit, it defeats the purpose of some of the dialogue in previous arcs. Even Ultra Instinct has this problem, but Vegeta gaining a "new form" that's meant to be an evolution of SSGSS doesn't make any sense lore wise. Might as well have him go Ultra Instinct. Before you know it there will be a 'SSGSS Evolution Revolution'.

The whole concept goes against SSGSS, it's basically a Power Stressed form as I said before. It would make sense if it did drain ki, it should drain ki, it's essentially a Power Stressed version of SSGSS! I was under the impression the whole "macho" forms were ditched, how does having huge muscles from the regular SSGSS not drain ki? See where I'm getting at here? It's the same thing visually, except Toei said it's different because...who knows.

I'm having difficulty seeing where you see how this fits in or expands upon the lore, this form is completely illogical.

Is this what it really is? Shouldn't then be smarter to stack the power of Super Saiyan God while in Super Saiyan 2!?

Knowing Toei, if they did that Yamamuro's style wouldn't allow for there to be any change in Vegeta's appearance. They probably decided to take an existing form, make it turn the user into a forward neck troll, and then slap "NO WAY! WHAT'S THIS? VEGETA HAS EVOLVED BEYOND BLUE OMG THIS ISN'T GRADE 2!" "WHAT? NO! IT'S NOT! MOST OF YOU KIDDOS HAVEN'T SEEN Z ANYWAY TO COMPARE!".

There's a chance it'll return..

You mean TOEI's anime? Most definitely there's a chance.

Unfortunately. I can imagine how painful this must be for Toriyama.

Take away the muscles that SSB bring to the table.

SSGSS was never meant to have huge muscles in the first place. They started slowly incorporating that after the 'F' arc in super.

[Tai Lung]

and I have clearly said that this is not the only thing in that battle

The other was Vegeta wanting to keep his promise to Cabba.
In order for Cabba to keep his promise to Vegeta from U6 tournament. Nothing new there either.

I mean the fact of not abandoning his convictions or the things in which he believes with pride, his love for his family, the promises and in addition to defeating his opponent with his own power ... Toppo god which represented him in times past besides of the reverse connection with majin vegeta etc

[Psajdak]

IMO, the best transformation in Super was Chichi with her hair down:



At this point she is already grandma, btw.

[Miracles]

and I have clearly said that this is not the only thing in that battle

The other was Vegeta wanting to keep his promise to Cabba.
In order for Cabba to keep his promise to Vegeta from U6 tournament. Nothing new there either.

I mean the fact of not abandoning his convictions or the things in which he believes with pride, his love for his family, the promises and in addition to defeating his opponent with his own power ... Toppo god which represented him in times past besides of the reverse connection with majin vegeta etc

Yeah but that is nothing new for Vegeta's character. Just a call back to him not losing himself/pride in the Buu saga.
It doesn't develop his character and as a result gave him a random power up.

There's a chance it'll return..

You mean TOEI's anime? Most definitely there's a chance.

Unfortunately. I can imagine how painful this must be for Toriyama

Lol I think Toriyama welcomes TOEI. Since they give his merchandise more publicity.

[Aim]

Lol I think Toriyama welcomes TOEI. Since they give his merchandise more publicity.

Toriyama is very wealthy, I wouldn't say merch is on his radar. Most likely interested in making sure no one disrespects his baby. Too bad Toei did that already.