Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

[JulieYBM]

Remember: as opposed to paying Kikuchi Shunsuke royalties FUNimation decided to contract out to Texas-based (?) Musicians that would not require union negotiations.

[Planetnamek]

Remember: as opposed to paying Kikuchi Shunsuke royalties FUNimation decided to contract out to Texas-based (?) Musicians that would not require union negotiations.

Plus Funi got to make royalties themselves every time their soundtrack was played on TV, Gen admitted in a 1999 interview that GreatSaiyaman777 dug up that that was the real reason he changed the soundtrack.

[MasenkoHA]

Remember: as opposed to paying Kikuchi Shunsuke royalties FUNimation decided to contract out to Texas-based (?) Musicians that would not require union negotiations.

Pretty sure the music was included despite what claim might have been made otherwise. The fact that they were able to keep the music for the rushed out of the gate and cheaply done Sleeping Princess movie all but confirms as such. Or that only Funimation (and dubs maintaining continuity with Funimation like Westwood) replaced the music.

There was never a “we have to pay extra to use this music”

For Christ sake most direct to video anime dubs that were done in “whatever the producers could find in their couch cushion” change kept the Japanese music and sfx unless there was a good reason not to (Tank Police)

[JulieYBM]

Remember: as opposed to paying Kikuchi Shunsuke royalties FUNimation decided to contract out to Texas-based (?) Musicians that would not require union negotiations.

Pretty sure the music was included despite what claim might have been made otherwise. The fact that they were able to keep the music for the rushed out of the gate and cheaply done Sleeping Princess movie all but confirms as such. Or that only Funimation (and dubs maintaining continuity with Funimation like Westwood) replaced the music.

There was never a “we have to pay extra to use this music”

For Christ sake most direct to video anime dubs that were done in “whatever the producers could find in their couch cushion” change kept the Japanese music and sfx unless there was a good reason not to (Tank Police)

The composers receive royalties for licensed music. It's why Kikuchi made so much money in 2011 when Kai was re-edited to use his music. With their replacement score FUNimation could simply charge money for every minute it played on television, at least according to that old interview.

[Kakacarrottop]

Switching audio between one of the versions, some Kikuchi tracks are still there, just awkwardly mixed in with the Wasserman score.

Maybe in some fan edit? The actual dub never used the Kikuchi music period (Pioneer movies aside)

He might be referring to this

https://vimeo.com/178949321

[ZeroNeonix]

On the topic of what genre DBZ is, these are my two cents.

Typical conflict in Dragon Ball: Rabbit turns people into carrots, so Goku puts the rabbit on the moon.

Typical conflict in Dragon Ball Z: Man from the future warns about androids who are going to kill everyone, and a genetically engineered bug monster eats people for their energy.

Yes, there were sci-fi elements in Dragon Ball, but there was a clear shift in tone after the alien fell from the sky. Dragon Ball was a lot more goofy and fantastical than Z. Dragon Ball Z even practically ditched having animal people, in favor of regular people. Aside from Puar, Oolong, and the occasional King Furry cameo, of course. In Dragon Ball, the focus was on funny gags, while in Z, the focus was on exciting battles and drama. The difference is almost like Jak & Daxter versus Jak II.

[MasenkoHA]

On the topic of what genre DBZ is, these are my two cents.

Typical conflict in Dragon Ball: Rabbit turns people into carrots, so Goku puts the rabbit on the moon.

In Dragon Ball, the focus was on funny gags, while in Z, the focus was on exciting battles and drama. The difference is almost like Jak & Daxter versus Jak II.

It’s like you never watched past the first arc of Dragon Ball or something.


Also loved that you best felt the need to make your point by comparing one early chapter to the premise of an entire arc? Because that’s a good faith argument.

Ignore the arc where an evil paramilitary is hurting innocent people to get what they want or the arc about two rival schools competing in a martial arts tournament and the prize student of one school wants to kill the prize student of another for allegedly killing his teacher’s assassin brother or the evil demon putting a hit out on martial artists while he goes to conquer the world and create mass chaos and panic snd the good guys are dying left and right.

But no that super early story with the Bunny Rabbit gangster that could turn people into carrots is indicative of Dragon Ball as a whole. There wasn’t an entire arc where a pink bubblegum demon turned people in candy or anything.

[ZeroNeonix]

It’s like you never watched past the first arc of Dragon Ball or something.

Starting your argument by poisoning the well doesn't give me much faith that continuing reading is worth my time. I'm not interested in having these back and forth, mean spirited debates over an anime. As I explained last time we had this exact same discussion, I've watched both series to completion. For DB in particular, it wasn't even very long ago that I rewatched it. To pretend that there are no differences between DB and DBZ just because the name of the manga never changed in Japan is just silly. They're almost entirely different shows that happen to share the same characters.

[GhostEmperorX]

Unrelated, but is anyone else interested in how this thread, which is specifically supposed to be about Faulconer and Kikuchi, has evolved into so many multiple topics at once?

Well the original topic has been resolved and we began to speak of Toei's incompetence playing a part in this perception which led to other stuff.

[jjgp1112]

It’s like you never watched past the first arc of Dragon Ball or something.

Starting your argument by poisoning the well doesn't give me much faith that continuing reading is worth my time. I'm not interested in having these back and forth, mean spirited debates over an anime. As I explained last time we had this exact same discussion, I've watched both series to completion. For DB in particular, it wasn't even very long ago that I rewatched it. To pretend that there are no differences between DB and DBZ just because the name of the manga never changed in Japan is just silly. They're almost entirely different shows that happen to share the same characters.

My man, you skipped clean past all of the arcs in the first half of the series and boiled the whole thing down to one goofy early chapter when the story was at it's most Dr. Slumpian. Your point has no legs to stand on if you acknowledge literally anything after the first arc.

If you were interested in making an argument in good faith you would've cited the multitude of material besides the single silliest, most inconsequential storyline as representative of the entire era.

Here, I'll do it too:

DB was the story where an evil demon systematically killed off martial artists and killed multiple members of the main cast and nearly succeeded in killing the protagonist, successfully killed the Dragon and took over the world, while the other series had a Pink silly puddy villain reading teen magazines and sipping soda while kicking his legs up like a 16 year old girl in the middle of a fight.

[MasenkoHA]

It’s like you never watched past the first arc of Dragon Ball or something.

Starting your argument by poisoning the well doesn't give me much faith that continuing reading is worth my time. I'm not interested in having these back and forth, mean spirited debates over an anime. As I explained last time we had this exact same discussion, I've watched both series to completion. For DB in particular, it wasn't even very long ago that I rewatched it. To pretend that there are no differences between DB and DBZ just because the name of the manga never changed in Japan is just silly. They're almost entirely different shows that happen to share the same characters.

Maybe if you used a better argument than “see how silly this one chapter from the early part of the manga was?”

Like nobody is going to deny there’s a major difference between Dragon Ball’s first arc and Raditz showing up but as far as tone there really isn’t a lot of difference between the Tenshinhan arc and Piccolo arc and the Saiyan arc.

Acting like the first arc represented the entirety of Dragon Ball pre-Raditz isn’t a good argument period.

[GhostEmperorX]

If DBZ had a competent dub from the beginning and Funi didn't keep mismanaging the franchise for the last 20+ years it would be one thing but as it is now i don't see why anyone would have to give Funi any credit for any part of role it played in the success of DB.

But you see, that's impossible as it was one of the first few anime to not be completely adapted into something else entirely by North American companies, before that it was mostly adaptations by far. So it was rather late for them or any other dubbing company.

[MasenkoHA]

But you see, that's impossible as it was one of the first few anime to not be completely adapted into something else entirely by North American companies, before that it was mostly adaptations by far. So it was rather late for them or any other dubbing company.

You keeping saying stuff that isn’t true.

Most anime that was dubbed for the home video market and/or appeared on Sci fi channel’s anime block tended to be faithful if not done all that well (not done well in terms of hilaribad voice acting not off kilter scripts) Even DBZ received a faithful dub in the 90s with its movies, the ones Funimation had almost nothing to do with.

Pretty much anything done by Viz, Pioneer, ADV, US Renditions tended to be faithful

[GhostEmperorX]

Solid State Scouter IMO fits with DBZ super well for example. Now THAT is an OST.

Still the same thoughts really, it captured quite a few of the new elements (its namesake) rather well. Why Yasunori Iwasaki wasn't chosen for DB Kai instead of the hack that was is beyond reasoning. He'd have done all the different styles that could work on it, and even a lot better than the Faulconer team did.

You keeping saying stuff that isn’t true.

Most anime that was dubbed for the home video market and/or appeared on Sci fi channel’s anime block tended to be faithful if not done all that well (not done well in terms of hilaribad voice acting not off kilter scripts) Even DBZ received a faithful dub in the 90s with its movies, the one Funimation had almost nothing to do with.

Pretty much anything done by Viz, Pioneer, ADV, US Renditions tended to be faithful

So... are we just going to ignore the massive number of adaptations (not dubs) in the 70's-80's alone and even a lot of those that existed in the 90's?
As in, where did dubbing begin if not with DB and a few other gateway shows? And if so, which company dubbed them properly?

[GhostEmperorX]

Sorry that this turned out to be a double-post but I waited rather long.

Faulconer I felt captured this more. SSJ3 Goku's theme should sound awesome and action packed, and not the weird depressing orchestra music we got in the Japanese dub. This theme would have fit the Japanese show a lot more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVG07DbFJwY

OK, gonna have to stop you right there, using anything by Kenji Yamamoto kills your point as he more than likely plagiarized it off of something else. Orchestral music also depends on which one and who's doing it.

Also don't agree that DBZ isn't a martial arts show, it most definitely is. You can definitely include any genre at all in a soundtrack so long as it works for certain elements of it, but you need a proficient genius as well as good directors behind the wheels of that for refinement purposes (see G Gundam or YYH). But then it's DB, a Toriyama franchise, so would such a complex approach even work in the first place? The man himself isn't even all that refined either in the first place.

[ZeroNeonix]

If you were interested in making an argument in good faith you would've cited the multitude of material besides the single silliest, most inconsequential storyline as representative of the entire era.

I did. Several pages ago. But nobody cared. You seriously going to dismiss my arguments simply because I didn't cite every single storyline in the series? Okay, then.

First arc of Dragon Ball: A search for mystic orbs told through loosely connected episodes, competing with a blue imp who's trying to do the same thing, ending with Goku turning into a giant gorilla, and Oolong using the Dragon's wish for panties.

Second arc: Tournament

Third arc: Very similar to the first arc, except now it's the Red Ribbon trying to collect the Dragon Balls, so their leader can wish to become taller. Tao is the first villain who is almost like a Z villain. Up until this point, Goku was basically Superman, and hunger his Kryptonite. But now, he's actually challenged by someone stronger than him. Korin, the talking cat, promises Goku he'll become strong if he takes and drinks the Sacred Water, but it's just a trick to get him to train to become faster and stronger.

Fourth arc: Another tournament, but this time with Roshi's rival, Shen, and his students Tien and Chiaotzu.

Fifth arc: Piccolo, who is considered a "demon" at this point in the story, is released from an ancient rice cooker and uses his children to spread chaos. Tambourine kills Krillin. Piccolo wishes to become young again, and Goku gives him a new hole. But Piccolo spits out a new egg that becomes Piccolo Junior. Goku trains with God--err "Kami"--so he can defeat Piccolo Jr. at the next tournament. Goku defeats Piccolo, but spares his life, because he figures out (this is before he became brain dead in Super) that Kami's life is connected with Piccolo's.

Then Z comes along and gives us aliens, space exploration, Super Saiyans, time travel, androids, etc. The only arc in DB that is remotely like Z is the Piccolo arc. But even then, the show took a pretty big shift once Zod--I mean Raditz--came down from space. And the only outlier in Z is the Buu arc, which kinda brought back the fantastical elements of original DB, but through the introduction of magic and gods, not tone. Sure, original Dragon Ball evolved over time, but even taking that into account, Z was still a pretty big shift.

Are you satisfied now, or did I miss some detail that will give you an excuse to ignore everything I said because I'm somehow arguing from "bad faith," and not simply putting forth an opinion you happen to disagree with?

[Kunzait_83]

So... are we just going to ignore the massive number of adaptations (not dubs) in the 70's-80's alone and even a lot of those that existed in the 90's?
As in, where did dubbing begin if not with DB and a few other gateway shows? And if so, which company dubbed them properly?

I'm just going to copy and paste this here, since I literally JUST did yet another umpteenth rundown about this:

I've talked many times on here at great lengths about the actual history of anime in the U.S. pre-Cartoon Network, but to quickly summarize: in the early days, there were two very different and diametrically opposed lanes for anime in the United States. One was for anime to be heavily edited, Westernized, and censored, and aired on mainstream children's broadcast TV as Saturday morning cartoons: often with the intent of hiding the Japanese origins of the shows and passing them off as American products to a child audience that at the time had zero idea whatsoever what Japanese anime was.

This lane is literally the sole incarnation of early U.S. anime that virtually anyone who's ever posted on this site (other than myself, VegettoEX, and maybe a small handful of others) has been in any which way familiar with.

The other lane however was anime that was picked up by smaller, independent licensing studios who treated the material with a tremendous degree more faithfulness overall, and would release anime (in both dubbed and subtitled versions) straight to VHS/video, with a target audience of largely grown adults while being 100% up front with the fact that these were Japanese films & shows and that Japanese anime was a whole wing of media unto itself.

*This* is the lane of early U.S. anime that this website/community - and indeed, a depressingly and inexcusably LARGE percentage of Cartoon Network-era fans and beyond - has had virtually ZERO clue of its very existence, much less possessing any substantive knowledge about it. This was also the lane that titles ranging from Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Vampire Hinter D, Bubblegum Crisis, Guyver, Fist of the North Star, Devilman, Lupin III, Gunbuster, Evangelion, Ranma 1/2, and even Tenchi Muyo (among many, many, MANY others) were all originally released within in the US: in many cases, more than a decade+ before Toonami was ever a thing that existed.

And the very fact that this significant segment of U.S. anime licensing is so often completely ignored and unacknowledged as something that existed at all is honestly a LOT of what heavily, heavily skews most of these "if FUNi didn't dub DB, then who the hell else would've?" history discussions into all manner of completely false premises and false dichotomies: this whole thread certainly being no exception.

Even at this late date, in 2020, and with literally DECADES to look this stuff up on Wikipedia, Anime News Network, and countless other online resources... there has been almost NO intellectual curiosity or care whatsoever on the part of fans from anywhere circa 1999 and onward to better inform themselves about this whole entire other wing of early, pre-Cartoon Network anime presence in North America, which was absolutely and without question of VASTLY greater importance and significance to anime's presence and growth in North America pre-1998 than whatsoever some rinky dink TV dub of GoLion or Samurai Troopers or whatnot might've contributed.

For anyone in the Toonami generation who fancies themselves some kind of a U.S. anime historian... to still NOT have any understanding or knowledge about the significant, critical importance and impact of straight to video licensing studios like AnimEigo, U.S. Renditions, Streamline Pictures, and Central Park Media and the like (as so many of them often demonstrably and self-evidently do not), is absolutely & without question 100% inexcusable and wholly invalidates any semblance of "expertise" that many of those people might claim or think that they possess on the subject.

Many of these releases were anything but obscure or ultra-ultra-niche and were incredibly visible and easily accessible literally just about almost anywhere in the fucking country that sold VHS tapes in the 80s and 90s: they just weren't in the kids/family section (which is apparently where a lot of folks were practically dog-chained to as kids).

It simply DID NOT take a whole lot of effort to find out about this thing called Japanese anime and manga circa 1991 or whatnot. The Toonami-era audience was just incredibly, INCREDIBLY media-sheltered as kids - to a frankly ludicrous, downright embarrassing degree oftentimes, in a way that simply wasn't "normal" even back then - and have spent the better part of the last 20 years of online anime discourse hyper-projecting that shelteredness out onto the whole, vast swath of U.S. anime history that came before them, and thus wildly distorting incredibly basic and easily verifiable (with like, 5 minutes on Google or Wikipedia) history of events as a result.

I say all that to stress that the lack of knowledge or discussion about this critically major segment of early, pre-Cartoon Network U.S. anime licensing isn't indicative that it somehow wasn't of importance or significance to the medium's American history, but rather that its indicative of how incredibly myopic, intellectually incurious, and obsessively self-absorbed with their own nostalgia that so much of the Toonami-era of anime fandom tends to be as they WILDLY over-inflate the level and degree to which Toonami had somehow singularly "introduced" anime to North America (when it did nothing remotely of the sort).

Put simply: you're doing the thing that most people on both this site, and in wider mainstream anime fandom of the last 15+ years have been doing, which is not understanding that edited for kids' TV anime dubs weren't the ONLY type of anime that was licensed and released in North America back in the 80s and 90s.

There was an entire COTTAGE INDUSTRY of anime licensing companies dating back to the mid 1980s who licensed anime (with faithful, accurate - if often poorly voice acted - dubs AND subtitled releases) completely unedited and uncensored specifically for the home video/VHS market, and aimed primarily at a fully grown, adult target audience rather than children.

Companies that encompassed that industry included, but weren't necessarily limited to: AnimEigo, U.S. Renditions, Streamline Pictures, Central Park Media, Manga, ADV, Viz (yes, Viz's North American history goes all the way back to the 1980s), Pioneer, Urban Vision, and so on. Many of these companies have origins, once again, dating as far back as the mid/late 1980s and were pumping out uncut, uncensored, and bilingual anime releases straight to the home VHS market - in incredibly large quantities - at a time in North America back when Reagan was still president and New Kids on the Block actually WERE still "new" and "kids".

These companies were responsible for licensing anime in North America COMPLETELY OUTSIDE OF the children's TV market: and unlike the kids' TV market, these releases were aimed specifically and squarely at adults and were marketed and sold to them upfront as Japanese Anime rather than try to "hide" their foreign origins like so many kids' TV dubs did back then. They titles were mainly released straight to VHS, but would often get TV airings on non-children's channels and timeslots, like on HBO, Showtime, MTV, and Sci Fi Channel, among others.

But yes, you could literally walk into just about ANY video store across North America as far back as 1988, and find a whole crapload of VHS tapes of 100% uncut, uncensored, unedited, and often even subtitled anime in sections of the store clearly marked "Japanimation" or "Japanese Anime" or whatnot. There were people back then who owned literally SHELVES full of officially licensed anime VHS tapes from this end of the industry.

Really: it was THAT easy to "discover" pure, largely untampered with anime back at any point from 1987 to 1997. Just waltz into the nearest video store, and find the (often clearly marked) "Japanimation" aisle. Voila. There's Castle of Cagliostro, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, Devilman, Gunbuster, Dirty Pair, Fist of the North Star, Bubblegum Crisis, Barefoot Gen, 3x3 Eyes, Vampire Princess Miyu, Roujin Z, and so on, all right there waiting for you. One trip to the nearest video store, a five dollar rental fee, and a willingness to look outside of the children's/family aisle was all it took all that time.

My own anime VHS collection had by 1993 (roughly 5 years into my fandom) already grown sizeably vast, even setting completely aside all the bootleg/fansubs and counting JUST the officially licensed stuff that I'm talking about here. I had a whole cabinet right under my TV back then that was full of wall to wall licensed/uncut/subtitled (and dubbed) anime VHS tapes: and I was hardly the only person buying/collecting these tapes back then.

The history of anime in North America is INSANELY longer, vastly more nuanced, and filled with TONS more history to it than most people on this forum and many other of today's Shonen-focused anime communities are even vaguely aware of. Anime as a Japanese artform wasn't "introduced" to Americans via DBZ or Pokemon and the like on outlets like Cartoon Network. Even setting aside other older edited for kids' TV dubs like Voltron and Robotech and the like, anime in its uncut/unbastardized form was being licensed and released in North America literally more than 15 solid years before Toonami ever became a thing or before Pokemon first reared its head.

The main reason people from the Toonami-era generally don't talk about or acknowledge this is - as near as I can generally tell - almost purely due to INSANE and ludicrous levels of media sheltering that a lot of folks of that era tended to be raised under (with UBER strict parental guidelines about what they were and weren't allowed to watch), and a general lack of basic-most historical curiosity to go back and explore or look more into that which came before they'd first gotten into anime later on down the line.

It also doesn't help that, with notable exceptions of course, the VAST overwhelming majority of these VHS anime releases from back then were very much Seinen/adult-aimed and focused anime titles, and the overall Dragon Ball/anime community online over the past 20 years has grown ever more incredibly allergic to exploring or spending significant time with more mature, adult-skewing media in general, much less in anime.

The history of anime in North America DID NOT start at Cartoon Network and DBZ & Pokemon: it WELL predates that, and was furthermore in NO way strictly limited to just edited for kids' TV dubs like Voltron and Sailor Moon. There's FAR more history there than just that stuff, and its LONG been a total and utter straight-up fucking EMBARRASSMENT that so much of this community has gone THIS long, into friggin' 2020, still largely COMPLETELY ignorant and wholly incurious about any of this incredibly important aspect of the history of anime in the U.S.

DBZ and Pokemon and their ilk on Toonami were ONLY "gateways" to anime proper for largely small, middle-school aged children and early high school teens. The target market for the pre-CN home video anime market was one that was significantly older and generally much less connected to that of the kinds of Saturday morning cartoon-obsessed, action figure-collecting kids that Toonami primarily catered to.

Much more of the general background history of this whole segment of U.S. anime licensing (which dates back to the 1960s) can be read in my Fred Patten eulogy from 2018.

[Planetnamek]

Good post for the most part, though I think you're incorrect about this notion you have about most anime/DB fans not liking adult media, speaking for myself 95% of the media I consume is very much aimed at adults(I post quite a bit in the horror sub-reddit), very little of what I watch is actually specifically aimed at kids(check my post on the thread for favorite non/DB series if you don't believe me), yes i'll freely admit to unironically enjoying dumb saturday morning cartoons every once in a while(including ones you've made fun of in the past ), but it's not like that's ALL I watch and that's true for most DB and anime fans in general. I've seen you repeat this claim a lot on this forum on many posts over the years and I don't really understand where you ever got the idea that almost every anime-fan out there that's younger then you mostly consumes media strictly aimed at kids. I know you've said in the past that you've based this partly on some of the people you've interacted with, but even if that is true that still only accounts for a tiny percentage of the 26 million viewers that watched DBZ on CN every week. Surely you can't be saying that ALL of those viewers are allergic to adult media right?(partially joking here)

[Kunzait_83]

I know you've said in the past that you've based this partly on some of the people you've interacted with, but even if that is true that still only accounts for a tiny percentage of the 26 million viewers that watched DBZ on CN every week. Surely you can't be saying that ALL of those viewers are allergic to adult media right?(partially joking here)

The full answer to this could (and probably should) honestly be its own thread.

I'm not making the claim however that the entirety of the 26 million people who watched DBZ on CN back in the day fall into this category. By and large overall, I would venture to say that a GREAT deal many of those people grew up and grew out of both DB and Shonen anime in general and moved on with their lives, like normal, well-adjusted, sane people.

This isn't about the people who all collectively made up the full TV audience back in the late 90s/early 2000s: its about the people from then who've stuck around and are actively online participating in fan communities like this one. That percentage I would say is an overall MUCH smaller slice of that 26 million viewer figure: but its relevant and important because its the slice that's still largely driving and steering discourse on anime in many (though certainly not all) corners of online fandom.

And even within that slice, there are indeed SOME who do move on to more mature/adult works of media (anime and otherwise). But overall I would go so far as to say that the portion of Toonami-era fans still active online and participating in the broader fandom discourse whom that applies to is generally significantly smaller (or at the very least, significantly less vocal and active) than those who largely still stubbornly cling to almost entirely children's works.

My experiences on not just this community, but also numerous other online anime communities throughout the years, is something that honestly doesn't belong in this thread, and that I've talked about much more off the forums or in PMs. I'd long, and I mean long meant to make a whole thread about that, but its yet to happen (largely because I'm a grown-ass man with a real life to deal with).

I've already made this particular point in other threads several times now (and you seem to have missed all of them), but I'll repeat it here: I make it a point to not name any specific names of users, since I don't remotely care to start personal beefs with anyone here. This isn't about any specific individual community members, nor is it meant to incriminate or implicate EVERY SINGLE LAST SOLITARY one of you, down to the last man/woman as part of the problem. This is more of a VERY broad-ranging, overall community-wide issue in an aggregate-like sense.

I thought I've made it abundantly clear numerous times that I'm not out to single out and make this about any specific, individual user here: so the whole "Is... is he talking about ME?! How DARE he!!" routine is starting to get mighty old and played the hell out at this point.

If you're someone on here who is genuinely, sincerely someone with an overall healthy, balanced media palette, if you aren't mostly just mainlining children's schlock as your day-to-day artistic intake, and if you're someone for whom this overall generalized community critique doesn't apply: then congratulations, you're NOT within the larger majority that I'm talking about here. Ignore the issue, since its not relevant to you, and move the hell on with your life like a normal, secure person would.

Otherwise there has to come a point where I'm forced to wonder if the constant "He's talking about ME SPECIFICALLY isn't he????" defensiveness isn't just coming from a place of my striking at too closely delicate of a nerve for you.

[Kataphrut]

I would just like to add that it's totally possible to be a 90s-born "anime is that thing for kids what I grew up with on Cartoon Network and Cheez TV" type of person that Kunzait is talking about above, and still think the Faulconer score is unlistenable garbage.

The idea that people could be nostalgic for that, or the old DBZ dub in general is ridiculous to me because I grew up with it as well, and cringe whenever I hear it now.