Lionel wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:04 pm
I actually wouldn't have minded seeing Krillin surpass Base Goku.
Dragon Ball has been a nonstop eulogisation of the Saiyans and their boundless potential since the Cell arc after Piccolo "reached the end of his road" by fusing with Kami.
I'm not so sure this was a thing anymore, referring specifically to Piccolo but somewhat to the Saiyans too. I used to subscribe to this idea and I think the power scaling community was the reason for that but now that I understand more about the franchise, I see that Piccolo's strength could and most likely is more substantial than most people think post Cell arc. The range is literally from Semi-Cell to substantially weaker than SSJ2 Gohan. That's a huge range of power even for the Buu saga where SSJ2 Gohan is a major measuring stick for the first half. Even the gulf between Semi-Cell and Mastered SSJ Goku is quite substantial as is the power difference between Goku and Gohan during the Cell games. If Vegeta could barely clear the difference between himself from the Cell games and SSJ2 Gohan from that time, then why would Piccolo having similarly slow growth make him to be stagnant or "end of his road?" I say that challenging previous ideas that I've held as well.
Other things we have to keep in mind is that even Goku's MSSJ level of power from the Cell games would not have been a lot to the main players of the Buu arc. If Piccolo reached this level then it still would have been considered irrelevant against Majin Buu and Dabura.
SSJ2 is a ridiculous power multiplier. Yes, so is SSJ1 and Piccolo was able to surpass that level, but according to what's presented in the story MSSJ must be an even bigger multiplier than SSJ since Piccolo can surpass one and not the other. Whatever, that point isn't the most clear but if we are to believe the guide books then SSJ2 is double what SSJ1 was, possibly even double whatever MSSJ provides and without Kaioken or some similarly power boosting skill or transformation, how could one logically reach that level of power? Super answers that for us by simply saying, "well, Piccolo broke through his previous limits through training." Good enough, I guess, but before that, even Vegeta, a Super Saiyan, had trouble figuring that out and Goku, who was leaps and bounds stronger than both Vegeta and Piccolo had the advantages of the afterlife to help him and it still took him some time.
All that considered, we can cut Piccolo some slack and not assume that he lost all his potential when he fused with Kami. One of the better things that Super has done with the character is dispense with that tired notion.
My assumption is that Piccolo in the Buu arc hovers somewhere near MSSJ Goku's power from the Cell arc or possibly even greater since he never stops training. I think all these guys use existing measuring sticks to compare themselves to, especially during times of peace. Vegeta used SSJ2 Gohan and Piccolo likely used Goku since realistically SSJ2 Gohan was too much at that time.
**Forgot to specify what I meant about the Saiyans. I think that the Buu arc simply made SSJ2 realistic, which is why it overall seems to place the Saiyans in such high regard. What I mean to say is that they made a multiplier of a multiplier as untouchable as it ought to be. SSJ2 was given all the respect it ought to have. So, I don't think it was necessarily a Saiyan-wank fest ... yet. I think the anime added some scenes to make it seem that way, but now that I look back on it, the Saiyan glorification wasn't too bad and it certainly wasn't unfounded. I think the worst scene for that is the Dabura/Babidi scene where they somehow "read" the true potential of the Saiyans and decide to eliminate Piccolo, but other than that and some of the Kaioshin scenes the arc simply holds SSJ2 in high regard. Goten and Trunks are unable to quickly defeat #18 with SSJ and later need to use fusion to be relevant in combat and later Piccolo is shown to be the strongest of the 3 when Buu absorbs them. And Gohan needs another spiritual powerup from a deity so he's not necessary utilizing his Saiyan heritage like the others, something Super doubles down on later.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-