The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

Then explain how Zeno was able to kill Infinite Zamasu then.

Because his erase technique doesn't take into account power level and erases anything.

[Sadala Elite]

Then explain how Zeno was able to kill Infinite Zamasu then.

Because his erase technique doesn't take into account power level and erases anything.

That's headcanon

[ZombieVito]

Then explain how Zeno was able to kill Infinite Zamasu then.

Because his erase technique doesn't take into account power level and erases anything.

That's headcanon

They say on the show he can erase anything he wants.

In the manga Goku mentions Zeno has low Ki. In the anime both of them need to be protected by the Grand priest during the ToP. It's obivious he's not strong.



Taking into account Beerus can't even kill immortal Future Zamasu and we know the Hakai does take into account power levels since Freeza and Vegeta survived one by strength, it's obvious the erase technique is superior and has nothing to do with power levels since weak Zeno can erase anyone even the Grand Priest.

[ssj3kakarot]

Probably the strongest character of the series, so far.

The only villain that only Zeno can defeat.

Zeno even had to erase the Grand Priest to defeat Zamasu.

I just can't see how he can be topped. Ever.

Not true.

Supressed Jiren was stated to be stronger

And that means nothing.

No matter how strong Jiren is, he can't beat Infinite Zamasu. He'll eventually die, either of old age or tiredness.

I just thought of it like that. Zeno is a freak and pretty savage. He's all like, " Nah, see ya later EVERYONE!" GP, Zalama, anyone in that timeline, just done!

[SupremeKai25]

Probably the strongest character of the series, so far.

The only villain that only Zeno can defeat.

Zeno even had to erase the Grand Priest to defeat Zamasu.

I just can't see how he can be topped. Ever.

Not true.

Supressed Jiren was stated to be stronger

And that means nothing.

No matter how strong Jiren is, he can't beat Infinite Zamasu. He'll eventually die, either of old age or tiredness.

I just thought of it like that. Zeno is a freak and pretty savage. He's all like, " Nah, see ya later EVERYONE!" GP, Zalama, anyone in that timeline, just done!

The souls in the Otherwold too. Remember Future Gohan, Future Bulma, Future Goku, Future Vegeta, those kids, etc.? All gone as if they never existed.

[Zamasu55]

Because his erase technique doesn't take into account power level and erases anything.

That's headcanon

They say on the show he can erase anything he wants.

In the manga Goku mentions Zeno has low Ki. In the anime both of them need to be protected by the Grand priest during the ToP. It's obivious he's not strong.



Taking into account Beerus can't even kill immortal Future Zamasu and we know the Hakai does take into account power levels since Freeza and Vegeta survived one by strength, it's obvious the erase technique is superior and has nothing to do with power levels since weak Zeno can erase anyone even the Grand Priest.

That's the manga though. In the anime Whis says there's nothing Beerus can't destroy.

[ZombieVito]

That's the manga though. In the anime Whis says there's nothing Beerus can't destroy.

The same thing is implied in the anime. They need to seal up Zamasu.

[Lionel]

Yeah there's been various arguments about the mechanics of Zamasu's immortality. I don't personally subscribe to the no-limits argument of it. It wasn't exactly scientifically probed to ascertain every minute detail and operable functionality of itself.

Majin Buu's immortality was more thoroughly explored, I feel. What's interesting about him is that he was killable if you managed to wipe out every single last particle of his essence.

[Zamasu55]

That's the manga though. In the anime Whis says there's nothing Beerus can't destroy.

The same thing is implied in the anime. They need to seal up Zamasu.

It's not very clear, Beerus also said to Gowasu that he'd easily destroy Zamasu if he went to the future.

[ZombieVito]

It's not very clear, Beerus also said to Gowasu that he'd easily destroy Zamasu if he went to the future.

What episode is this? Did Beerus know he was immortal?

Edit: OK. I saw the scene and while he does say that, E67 implies otherwise (and manga outright confirms it).

Beerus wouldn't need to seal him up if he can destroy him.

[Zamasu55]

It's not very clear, Beerus also said to Gowasu that he'd easily destroy Zamasu if he went to the future.

What episode is this? Did Beerus know he was immortal?

Edit: OK. I saw the scene and while he does say that, E67 implies otherwise (and manga outright confirms it).

Beerus wouldn't need to seal him up if he can destroy him.

DBS's full of things like these sadly.

[SupremeKai25]

Sometimes Toei has to complicate things for literally no reason. Why tf couldn't they just have Beerus say loud and clear that his hakai doesn't work on immortal beings. Ugh.

[Zamasu55]

Zamasu's immortality comes from the Super Dragon Ball, which hold the power to resurrect universes erased by Zeno, this means that they're as strong as him.

Meaning... Beerus shouldn't be able to destroy Zamasu because his immortality was granted by a being much stronger than him.

[ZombieVito]

It's not very clear, Beerus also said to Gowasu that he'd easily destroy Zamasu if he went to the future.

What episode is this? Did Beerus know he was immortal?

Edit: OK. I saw the scene and while he does say that, E67 implies otherwise (and manga outright confirms it).

Beerus wouldn't need to seal him up if he can destroy him.

DBS's full of things like these sadly.

Or Beerus didnt actually mean kill but defeat. Or he meant Black there.

E67 and Chapter 26 are clear enough though.

[Peach]

Zamasu vs. Garlic Jr

[SupremeKai25]

Zamasu vs. Garlic Jr

No one would die, but clearly there is nothing Garlick Jr. could do against Zamasu. Zamasu is so much more powerful that he'd obliterate him just by sneezing on him. Immortality can only get you so far in a battle. In the manga we can see how Fused Zamasu vs Vegito was still a onesided stomp because even if F. Zamasu was immortal, he couldn't do anything and was constantly being torn apart.

[Lionel]

Zamasu vs. Garlic Jr

Garlic Jr's body is completely atomised by Zamasu. Both may be immortal but regeneration requires a conscious effort.

[Peach]

Android 16 vs. Metal Cooler

[Lionel]

Android 16 vs. Metal Cooler

I assume this is meaning in context for Metal Cooler at his strongest in the film to be the one who's fielded. In which case, I think we should ask who or what is our best point of reference in relation to the manga and #16's interactional degree of strength? Just from a personal standpoint, I would lean towards Piccolo and Imperfect Cell. We have no idea how much or by what means Goku and Vegeta grew so powerful to the point that they were the zenith of physical strength at this time because canonically speaking, Piccolo/Kamicollo was the strongest of the group prior to anyone entering the ROSAT. My guess? Maybe they trained separately for an extended period after the cyborgs first attack but it was through the same methods used at the beginning of the arc -- which would explain why Gohan isn't a Super Saiyan in this movie. It doesn't offer any clarification for why Future Trunks isn't here, though. Could he have not returned for a second time?

Getting back to Piccolo and Imperfect Cell, we know that the latter -- after having absorbed many more humans to increase his power -- was dominating to the point that Piccolo's strongest attack was inflicting no damage upon him. For every blow requited, we could see Piccolo recoiling painfully like it was agonising to him. Imperfect Cell just so happened to be equal with #16 at this time.

By comparison to the above struggle, in the few clips we see of Piccolo fighting Metal Cooler, he clearly has his back to the wall unable to do much of anything to his opponent but he's not exactly clutching his face from extreme pain or quivering from the frightening amount of strength his opponent is emitting.

I think Imperfect Cell, and by extension #16, were presented as the more imposing, overwhelming opponents. Metal Cooler was just significantly stronger. So when pitted against each other, I think #16 takes it decently. It may not be completely one-sided but the fight should be clearly in the android's favour. Cooler's only hope here would be for his mechanical body to self-improve after enough damage to bridge the gap and maybe overtake his opponent in power. Cooler does have some techniques of his own to match #16's detachable limbs.

If the fight is allowed to continue on for a period of time then Cooler may eventually overcome #16 through his artificial copycat-like version of zenkai. #16 needs to either end it early on or he's going to be looking at a desperate kamikaze manoeuvre that results in merely a draw.

[Zamasu55]

Android 16 vs. Metal Cooler

I assume this is meaning in context for Metal Cooler at his strongest in the film to be the one who's fielded. In which case, I think we should ask who or what is our best point of reference in relation to the manga and #16's interactional degree of strength? Just from a personal standpoint, I would lean towards Piccolo and Imperfect Cell. We have no idea how much or by what means Goku and Vegeta grew so powerful to the point that they were the zenith of physical strength at this time because canonically speaking, Piccolo/Kamicollo was the strongest of the group prior to anyone entering the ROSAT. My guess? Maybe they trained separately for an extended period after the cyborgs first attack but it was through the same methods used at the beginning of the arc -- which would explain why Gohan isn't a Super Saiyan in this movie. It doesn't offer any clarification for why Future Trunks isn't here, though. Could he have not returned for a second time?

Getting back to Piccolo and Imperfect Cell, we know that the latter -- after having absorbed many more humans to increase his power -- was dominating to the point that Piccolo's strongest attack was inflicting no damage upon him. For every blow requited, we could see Piccolo recoiling painfully like it was agonising to him. Imperfect Cell just so happened to be equal with #16 at this time.

By comparison to the above struggle, in the few clips we see of Piccolo fighting Metal Cooler, he clearly has his back to the wall unable to do much of anything to his opponent but he's not exactly clutching his face from extreme pain or quivering from the frightening amount of strength his opponent is emitting.

I think Imperfect Cell, and by extension #16, were presented as the more imposing, overwhelming opponents. Metal Cooler was just significantly stronger. So when pitted against each other, I think #16 takes it decently. It may not be completely one-sided but the fight should be clearly in the android's favour. Cooler's only hope here would be for his mechanical body to self-improve after enough damage to bridge the gap and maybe overtake his opponent in power. Cooler does have some techniques of his own to match #16's detachable limbs.

If the fight is allowed to continue on for a period of time then Cooler may eventually overcome #16 through his artificial copycat-like version of zenkai. #16 needs to either end it early on or he's going to be looking at a desperate kamikaze manoeuvre that results in merely a draw.

The movies take place in a different timeline. All of them except the last, which takes place after Kid Buu's defeat, and peraphs Bojack's.

So, do not try to find some sense in them. It's useless.

In that movie Piccolo is weaker than Ssj Goku and Vegeta, despite Kami's presence within him.