"Funi took terminology straight from Banda"i thing is true or not

[Cure Dragon 255]

Saiyan was from them I heard.

[linkdude20002001]

Well, Bandai used "Saiyan" in their videogames before Funimation even got the licence to dub DBZ, but I can't say if Bandai was a direct influence or not. Maybe Bandai's use of "Saiyan" led to fans using, thus leading to FUNi using it... But I mean, it could also just have been written in the "English" script they had, or just simply came up with the translation on their own. It's pretty much the best possible translation.

[Metalwario64]

Well, Saiyan is also just a legitimate adaptation of Saiyajin, since "jin" is just a term to describe someone from a place, so it's just a logical adaptation.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Well, Bandai used "Saiyan" in their videogames before Funimation even got the licence to dub DBZ, but I can't say if Bandai was a direct influence or not. Maybe Bandai's use of "Saiyan" led to fans using, thus leading to FUNi using it... But I mean, it could also just have been written in the "English" script they had, or just simply came up with the translation on their own. It's pretty much the best possible translation.

I was wondering where the whole thing with Saiyan being pronounced with the "ay" sound to it rather than "ai" like the Japanese version came from.

[linkdude20002001]

In that case, it's just cuz Funimation's actors simply GUESSED on how to pronounce it. No one at FUNi knew what was right or wrong. In english, AI/AY tends to be pronounced "ehy" nowadays. Like in the word "wait". I think we got that from french? But then we do still say "aisle" and "ay" with an "ahy", so it's not impossible that they could have guessed correctly.. Especially if they had knowledge of a language like Spanish, Italian, Hawaiian, etc. But alas, they did not.

It's also how we got "kehy-oh" in Kaio-ken for so many years. ..Despite King Kai being pronounced correctly.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

In that case, it's just cuz Funimation's actors simply GUESSED on how to pronounce it. No one at FUNi knew what was right or wrong. In english, AI/AY tends to be pronounced "ehy" nowadays. Like in the word "wait". I think we got that from french? But then we do still say "aisle" and "ay" with an "ahy", so it's not impossible that they could have guessed correctly.. Especially if they had knowledge of a language like Spanish, Italian, Hawaiian, etc. But alas, they did not.

It's also how we got "kehy-oh" in Kaio-ken for so many years. ..Despite King Kai being pronounced correctly.

Yeah, the kayo-ken one stuck around for quite a while although the Pioneer produced dub of The World's Strongest actually got it right mostly due to them having an accurate script. Then of course once later video games and eventually Kai came around FUNi finally corrected it. Though with Saiyan, in Japanese it's effectively pronounced the same way you say the one particular color shade of blue's name.

[MyVisionity]

It's pretty much the best possible translation.

They could have just used "Saiya" instead of "Saiyan". But I doubt they were trying to translate it themselves with the precedent out there at the time.

Well, Saiyan is also just a legitimate adaptation of Saiyajin, since "jin" is just a term to describe someone from a place, so it's just a logical adaptation.

Except "Saiya" is not a place. It's the name of the race. Jin just refers to a people or person. I understand the logic behind it, but it's flawed logic.

I was wondering where the whole thing with Saiyan being pronounced with the "ay" sound to it rather than "ai" like the Japanese version came from.

They may have just thought it sounded better than the Japanese pronunciation. I don't have a problem with it, because "Saiyan" was never a Japanese term to begin with. So why force Japanese phonetics onto a term created for a non-Japanese speaking audience? Personally, I think the Japanese sai pronunciation sounds awkward when used in "Saiyan". I also don't find the English pronunciation to sound much different than the Japanese one honestly.

As far as the origin of "Saiyan", wasn't there some scenes in the anime using that spelling? Like on a T-shirt or something?

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

It's pretty much the best possible translation.

They could have just used "Saiya" instead of "Saiyan". But I doubt they were trying to translate it themselves with the precedent out there at the time.

Well, Saiyan is also just a legitimate adaptation of Saiyajin, since "jin" is just a term to describe someone from a place, so it's just a logical adaptation.

Except "Saiya" is not a place. It's the name of the race. Jin just refers to a people or person. I understand the logic behind it, but it's flawed logic.

I was wondering where the whole thing with Saiyan being pronounced with the "ay" sound to it rather than "ai" like the Japanese version came from.

They may have just thought it sounded better than the Japanese pronunciation. I don't have a problem with it, because "Saiyan" was never a Japanese term to begin with. So why force Japanese phonetics onto a term created for a non-Japanese speaking audience? Personally, I think the Japanese sai pronunciation sounds awkward when used in "Saiyan". I also don't find the English pronunciation to sound much different than the Japanese one honestly.

As far as the origin of "Saiyan", wasn't there some scenes in the anime using that spelling? Like on a T-shirt or something?

Yeah now that i think about it that makes sense, then there are those various dubs which adapt it from the original but changed slightly like the Malaysian dub which translated as Saiya People which was more or less accurate to the written word of it in Japanese and Filipino which sounds like "Syan/Cyan" there.

[Metalwario64]

As far as the origin of "Saiyan", wasn't there some scenes in the anime using that spelling? Like on a T-shirt or something?

Someone on one of the islands Cell blows up is wearing a shirt that says "The Super Saiyan."

[linkdude20002001]

Yeah, the kayo-ken one stuck around for quite a while although the Pioneer produced dub of The World's Strongest actually got it right mostly due to them having an accurate script. Then of course once later video games and eventually Kai came around FUNi finally corrected it. Though with Saiyan, in Japanese it's effectively pronounced the same way you say the one particular color shade of blue's name.

A better translation of the script wouldn't change the pronunciation of anything. It's just a matter of Pioneer being in charge of that dub. They, or their translator, probably spoke up about it.

I would assume the correct pronunciation of Kaiō-ken came about from Schemmel learning from fans that "Kaio-ken" basically means "King Kai Technique", thus him finally fixing it to match how he says "King Kai".

But Saiyan is pronounced SAHY-ən, where-as I've only ever heard "cyan" pronounced as sahy-AAN (like "sigh" + "anne"). The emphasis being on a different syllable makes a huge difference. It's enough to change entire words.

They may have just thought it sounded better than the Japanese pronunciation. I don't have a problem with it, because "Saiyan" was never a Japanese term to begin with. So why force Japanese phonetics onto a term created for a non-Japanese speaking audience? Personally, I think the Japanese sai pronunciation sounds awkward when used in "Saiyan". I also don't find the English pronunciation to sound much different than the Japanese one honestly.

They sound equally fine. Anyone saying otherwise just has what-they're-used-to bias.
Saiya is a rearranging of the Japanee word "yasai", so it IS of Japanese origin.

[MyVisionity]

They sound equally fine. Anyone saying otherwise just has what-they're-used-to bias.

I'm not sure how anything can sound "equally fine". Especially when you're dealing with different languages and dialects. As well as with two different terms, "Saiyan" and "Saiya-jin".

Saiya is a rearranging of the Japanee word "yasai", so it IS of Japanese origin.

The exact origin of the word is largely irrelevant in this case. I was referring to "Saiyan", not saiya. One is Japanese, the other is not.

[jjgp1112]

They sound equally fine. Anyone saying otherwise just has what-they're-used-to bias.

I'm not sure how anything can sound "equally fine". Especially when you're dealing with different languages and dialects. As well as with two different terms, "Saiyan" and "Saiya-jin".

Saiya is a rearranging of the Japanee word "yasai", so it IS of Japanese origin.

The exact origin of the word is largely irrelevant in this case. I was referring to "Saiyan", not saiya. One is Japanese, the other is not.

Saiyan is literally just English adaptation of "Saiya-jin" though. There is no "Jin" in the English language so it's either Saiya people if you want to be awkwardly literal or Saiyan. It's still a Japanese word, just logically relayed to English listeners. The "n" serves the exact same purpose as "-jin" in this case.

It sounds like you're just using weirdly backwards logic to justify the change in pronunciation.

Similarly, Namekians are "Namek-jins" yet nobody's even given that a second thought.

[MyVisionity]

Saiyan is literally just English adaptation of "Saiya-jin" though. There is no "Jin" in the English language so it's either Saiya people if you want to be awkwardly literal or Saiyan. It's still a Japanese word, just logically relayed to English listeners. The "n" serves the exact same purpose as "-jin" in this case.

It's an adaptation yes, but a flawed one. I don't think there is anything awkward about "Saiya", and you don't have to call them "Saiya people". And it's really no longer a Japanese word once it becomes "Saiyan".

Similarly, Namekians are "Namek-jins" yet nobody's even given that a second thought.

That's a much different case. "Namek/Namekian" comes from namekkuseijin, or "people of the Planet Namek". Namek is a place, unlike with Saiya.

[linkdude20002001]

It's an adaptation yes, but a flawed one. I don't think there is anything awkward about "Saiya", and you don't have to call them "Saiya people". And it's really no longer a Japanese word once it becomes "Saiyan".

The exact origin of the word is largely irrelevant in this case. I was referring to "Saiyan", not saiya. One is Japanese, the other is not.

Saiya-jin is not a Japanese word, tho. It's a name of a fictional race that uses the Japanese nationality-suffix, which needs to be adapted into an English-language nationality-suffix for the purpose of an English version of the cartoon. You just don't know what 人 (jin) means. It's not the Japanese word for "people"; it's a Japanese modifier that you tack onto words like Italia (Italia-jin, Italian in Italian & English), Iceland (Iceland-jin, Íslendingar in Icelandic, Icelander in English), or geinō (geinō-jin, performer in English).

The pronunciation of the "Saiya" part of "Saiyan" is important to get correct, or else you lose the connectability to the Japanese word "yasai", thus defeating the point of the naming scheme. YOU might not get the reference, but that doesn't mean it should be purposefully removed. Then NO-one gets the reference.

[MyVisionity]

Saiya-jin is not a Japanese word, tho. It's a name of a fictional race that uses the Japanese nationality-suffix, which needs to be adapted into an English-language nationality-suffix for the purpose of an English version of the cartoon. You just don't know what 人 (jin) means. It's not the Japanese word for "people"; it's a Japanese modifier that you tack onto words like Italia (Italia-jin, Italian in Italian & English), Iceland (Iceland-jin, Íslendingar in Icelandic, Icelander in English), or geinō (geinō-jin, performer in English).

It's like I said before. Jin just refers to a people or person. It does not necessarily need an English-language equivalent. English does not work the same way as Japanese. Additionally, "Saiyajin" is not a nationality in the stricter sense. It's a race. Your examples include Italia and Iceland, two countries, plus an occupation.

The pronunciation of the "Saiya" part of "Saiyan" is important to get correct, or else you lose the connectability to the Japanese word "yasai", thus defeating the point of the naming scheme. YOU might not get the reference, but that doesn't mean it should be purposefully removed. Then NO-one gets the reference.

You've already lost the connection to the Japanese word by adapting "Saiya-jin" to "Saiyan". A Japanese pronunciation by that point is only forced and awkward. Sticking a consonant onto the end of saiya is no substitute for jin in this case, and ultimately signifies that this is an all-new word to be pronounced within an English or Western context.

Additionally, the point of the naming scheme is meaningless if the dub itself don't care much about naming schemes to begin with. If so, then the pronunciations mean even less.

[Robo4900]

The pronunciation of the "Saiya" part of "Saiyan" is important to get correct, or else you lose the connectability to the Japanese word "yasai", thus defeating the point of the naming scheme. YOU might not get the reference, but that doesn't mean it should be purposefully removed. Then NO-one gets the reference.

You've already lost the connection to the Japanese word by adapting "Saiya-jin" to "Saiyan". A Japanese pronunciation by that point is only forced and awkward. Sticking a consonant onto the end of saiya is no substitute for jin in this case, and ultimately signifies that this is an all-new word to be pronounced within an English or Western context.

Additionally, the point of the naming scheme is meaningless if the dub itself don't care much about naming schemes to begin with. If so, then the pronunciations mean even less.

Even if you don't put any stock in the idea of trying to render the original pronunciation etc., an argument could be made for the fact that pronouncing it as "Seiyans" is weird and dumb when it's spelled as "Saiyans". Much like how we have Kaio/King Kai, Kaioken (which Funi also got wrong for a while), Dragon Ball Kai, Kaioshin/Supreme Kai... It's not King Kei, or Dragon Ball Kei, or Keiyoken (at least, not anymore)... So why is it still Seiyan?

As for the dub itself not caring... The dub not caring about naming schemes is just a further layer of badness/wrongness, not a reason why this particular layer of wrongness is actually fine, or otherwise not so bad. And I'd argue invoking it is just whataboutism.

[TheGreatness25]

I'm not sure how the incorrect pronunciations came about, honestly. If someone were translating the scripts, then they should've had some linguistics knowledge and they'd know that there's no way that "Saiya" was pronounced as "Saya". Japanese is pretty consistent with its vowel sounds and if you have an elementary grasp of the character pronunciations, you can read every word as it was intended to be. I'd also like to point out that no other language (that I know of) seemed to have an issue with pronouncing it.

I'll go the other way and not say that Funimation was ignorant in its adaptation of the word. I think it just sounds more "American" as "Say-an". Especially when thinking that "Saiyan" and "Kaio-ken" would appear on posters and merchandise that would be exposed to a casual audience than established fans. I mean, if it was your first time seeing the word "Saiyan", how would you pronounce it? I feel like these decisions had something to do with marketing and Americanization.

Yes, it's obvious that the names and terms are not natively English, but they've done a good job in making the names roll off the tongue easily for an English-speaker (Krillin, Tien, etc.).

I'm not saying that they did the right thing or that they did it wrong, I'm just giving them more credit than just ignorance.

With regard to the change from "K.O. ken", I think that Chris Sabat had a lot to do with that, as he does tend to be the director for the Dragon Ball projects and here seems to be rather "in-tune" with the fans.

I will give Funimation the benefit of the doubt and say that at least with Kai, they wanted to give a much more faithful representation of the series, but so many people were attached to the old dub, that they couldn't escape the marketing of a "Spirit Bomb", "Destructo Disc", "Special Beam Cannon", and so on. And now that Toei basically put out a mandate that their official English merchandise must contain dubisms, it further shows to me that it's likely a marketing thing. So, "Say-an" is stayin'.

One fantastic way to avoid any of these issues is to exclusively refer to the Japanese version.

[Robo4900]

I'm not sure how the incorrect pronunciations came about, honestly.

Almost certainly it was Barry Watson.

One fantastic way to avoid any of these issues is to exclusively refer to the Japanese version.

[MyVisionity]

Even if you don't put any stock in the idea of trying to render the original pronunciation etc., an argument could be made for the fact that pronouncing it as "Seiyans" is weird and dumb when it's spelled as "Saiyans". Much like how we have Kaio/King Kai, Kaioken (which Funi also got wrong for a while), Dragon Ball Kai, Kaioshin/Supreme Kai... It's not King Kei, or Dragon Ball Kei, or Keiyoken (at least, not anymore)... So why is it still Seiyan?

True. I can't really defend the pronunciation based on the spelling. Maybe they just thought it sounded better. They probably don't have much of an excuse with Kaioken, considering how they were pronouncing King Kai.

As for the dub itself not caring... The dub not caring about naming schemes is just a further layer of badness/wrongness, not a reason why this particular layer of wrongness is actually fine, or otherwise not so bad. And I'd argue invoking it is just whataboutism.

The only reason I commented on it was because linkdude20002001 mentioned "defeating the point of the naming scheme" in his post. I get it, but that doesn't change the significance of the dub not caring with regards to this case.

[WittyUsername]

I can certainly buy that Chris Sabat had a say in “Kaioken” being pronounced correctly. In fact, that’s probably what it was. You even had Vegeta pronouncing it correctly in the UUE dub.