Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

[Mad Swami]

I'm not saying he is a good guy or a preacher, but he is a flat character. The flat character is someone who goes through little change due to them already being familiar with the truth. It's their determination that inspires and changes others. Goku is so complete already that he helps others become complete. Goku is Dragonball, the closet thing we could ever see is a story like Cell saga but with Uub but in the end once Goku is done, so is DB

I know that's a Totally Not Mark-ism but I've always been iffy on this argument that Goku is a Flat Character. Maybe he counts as one now in the current long status quo, but Goku changed massively throughout the original manga story. The animalistic kid from the wilderness is a completely different person from the proud Super Saiyan warrior that he became. The argument can be made that most of the Dragon Ball cast including Vegeta are Flat Characters as this point, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'd say it's always been more transactionary than people make out as well. Goku may change his old enemies and friends for the better in most cases, but they teach him as well. Piccolo had to step in as the voice of sanity when Goku sent their son (sorrycouldn'tresistthelowhangingfruit) Gohan into battle and forced Goku to realise that what he was doing was wrong. Before that, Frieza gives him a needed reality check that the universe isn't just Goku's consequence-free sandbox, that there are evil, unrepentant monsters out there that shouldn't be shown mercy on either a moralistic or practical level.

Well sure, but I would say that's still something that is unique about Goku that can't just be pawned off onto another fighter per say. Or at least, something that when another fighter exhibits the traits, you know they can be what Goku is. However, Goku has been with Dragonball for so long, to just focus on a new cast is a bizarre concept that I don't think an entire show can sustain.

[LoganForkHands73]

I'm not saying he is a good guy or a preacher, but he is a flat character. The flat character is someone who goes through little change due to them already being familiar with the truth. It's their determination that inspires and changes others. Goku is so complete already that he helps others become complete. Goku is Dragonball, the closet thing we could ever see is a story like Cell saga but with Uub but in the end once Goku is done, so is DB

I know that's a Totally Not Mark-ism but I've always been iffy on this argument that Goku is a Flat Character. Maybe he counts as one now in the current long status quo, but Goku changed massively throughout the original manga story. The animalistic kid from the wilderness is a completely different person from the proud Super Saiyan warrior that he became. The argument can be made that most of the Dragon Ball cast including Vegeta are Flat Characters as this point, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'd say it's always been more transactionary than people make out as well. Goku may change his old enemies and friends for the better in most cases, but they teach him as well. Piccolo had to step in as the voice of sanity when Goku sent their son (sorrycouldn'tresistthelowhangingfruit) Gohan into battle and forced Goku to realise that what he was doing was wrong. Before that, Frieza gives him a needed reality check that the universe isn't just Goku's consequence-free sandbox, that there are evil, unrepentant monsters out there that shouldn't be shown mercy on either a moralistic or practical level.

Well sure, but I would say that's still something that is unique about Goku that can't just be pawned off onto another fighter per say. Or at least, something that when another fighter exhibits the traits, you know they can be what Goku is. However, Goku has been with Dragonball for so long, to just focus on a new cast is a bizarre concept that I don't think an entire show can sustain.

I agree on that for sure. If they have to make a sequel that has to keep the Dragon Ball name then keeping Goku around is a must. New generation stuff following completely different casts of characters is possible but I'd rather that be shoved into its own separate thing under a new brand that people can safely ignore or embrace with zero pressure.

As for WittyUsername's point about flat characters, well... Goku keeps a few basic traits but the story of Dragon Ball follows Goku's coming-of-age narrative. But if you pick any two points from the manga and compare Goku's characterisation, there's gonna be quite significant differences. He goes from being completely okay with massacring hundreds of people in the RRA arc to scolding Vegeta for killing the Ginyu Force in the Namek arc.

[Lord Beerus]

No it can't, and you know, they could take that story and make one of their own, and not just slap DB on the cover to milk the brand for all its worth.

If the story is going to continue, I don't give a damn about the next generation. I want to follow the characters I know and love at a later stage in their lives.

I keep harping on this but stories are more than just writing. It's lightning in a bottle.

I feel the same way about this as I do about Into the Spider-verse. I still can't fathom why anyone finds Miles story interesting when it's mostly an origin story we've seen before and Peter's is genuinely fresh. We've never seen a Peter at that point in his life - he's in his 40s, estranged from MJ after years of marriage and has seen it all when it comes to crime fighting. He's not quite cynical but he's a little bored by it all as he's been there, done that.

It just seems like to you can't handle the idea of change. I'm not saying this to belittle how much you're invested in Goku's journey -- believe me I am too -- but one man's journey ending doesn't mean another one can take its place, and potential be as good or better. Dragon Ball at this current point is stagnating immensely when it comes to storytelling. You can only do the same thing with the same cast of characters over and over again before either the creator gets bored or the audience do. I mean, that's how Dragon Ball originally ended. Toriyama got burned out and didn't want continue writing or drawing Dragon Ball and the audience became less interested in stories that were being told. Dragon Ball needs fresh blood if it wants to tell more stories.

If you don't give a damn about the next generation and just want to follow the characters I know and love at a later stage in their lives, then I'm sure you must have really liked GT. Now I say this as someone who also liked GT for the neat little epilogue it was, but I didn't really get anything out seeing and old Krillin, or an old Pilaf gang, or Yamcha alone in the desert, or Gohan becoming a book work, or Piccolo doing nothing beyond dying, Vegeta growing a moustache and then wanting to catch up to Goku again. GT just reinforced the idea that there was nothing left for the original characters to do.

And I'm so glad you brought up Into the Spider-verse because that further proves my point. Miles may have a somewhat similar origin story to that of Peter Parker, but there several wonderful nuances that differentiate him from what Peter Park went through, what his initial personality is and how he interacts with the world. That's why so many people became sold on the idea Miles being the next Spider-man. He has enough similarities to Peter Parker that fans don't feel he's out of place but at the same time his character development unique while being grounded enough that fans still relate to him.

A story doesn't need to be named after the main character to be about them. Dragon Ball was the title because it sounds better than Son Goku, but make no mistake, it's about Son Goku. It's not about the world or the seven McGuffins. And when I say it's Goku's story, I'm not saying the supporting characters aren't important. Justified was about Raylan Givens and while the other characters are important and help make his story so interesting, it's still fundamentally his story.

I agree that Goku's story has ended. His and the other character's stories have reached their natural end point and that's why you bring it to a close. The Good Place could follow another group of people and explore more of the afterlife but the point was made. It's time to end it and move on. All good things end.

But the problem still remains: Dragon Ball wants to tell more stories. And there is nothing let to get out of characters like Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan or the the others beyond transformations, which at this stage, add nothing to developing or furthering their character. And if you're telling and story and not developing the character(s) as you go along, then what really are you doing? That's why I have the mentality of the ditching the old guard for completely new faces. Because then the storytelling capabilities aren't nowhere near as restricted as they are currently. You have a blank slate to work with.

You can't preemptively say that a story set in the Dragon Ball world wouldn't work with new set of character because has actually put in the effort to commit to the idea in the long run. Who knows if it would work or if it doesn't. You don't know and I don't know. At very least, I want someone to try.

[Mad Swami]

I know that's a Totally Not Mark-ism but I've always been iffy on this argument that Goku is a Flat Character. Maybe he counts as one now in the current long status quo, but Goku changed massively throughout the original manga story. The animalistic kid from the wilderness is a completely different person from the proud Super Saiyan warrior that he became. The argument can be made that most of the Dragon Ball cast including Vegeta are Flat Characters as this point, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'd say it's always been more transactionary than people make out as well. Goku may change his old enemies and friends for the better in most cases, but they teach him as well. Piccolo had to step in as the voice of sanity when Goku sent their son (sorrycouldn'tresistthelowhangingfruit) Gohan into battle and forced Goku to realise that what he was doing was wrong. Before that, Frieza gives him a needed reality check that the universe isn't just Goku's consequence-free sandbox, that there are evil, unrepentant monsters out there that shouldn't be shown mercy on either a moralistic or practical level.

Well sure, but I would say that's still something that is unique about Goku that can't just be pawned off onto another fighter per say. Or at least, something that when another fighter exhibits the traits, you know they can be what Goku is. However, Goku has been with Dragonball for so long, to just focus on a new cast is a bizarre concept that I don't think an entire show can sustain.

I agree on that for sure. If they have to make a sequel that has to keep the Dragon Ball name then keeping Goku around is a must. New generation stuff following completely different casts of characters is possible but I'd rather that be shoved into its own separate thing under a new brand that people can safely ignore or embrace with zero pressure.

As for WittyUsername's point about flat characters, well... Goku keeps a few basic traits but the story of Dragon Ball follows Goku's coming-of-age narrative. But if you pick any two points from the manga and compare Goku's characterisation, there's gonna be quite significant differences. He goes from being completely okay with massacring hundreds of people in the RRA arc to scolding Vegeta for killing the Ginyu Force in the Namek arc.

Right. I 100% think Goku has come along way and change. Honestly people make jokes about the Frieza going for his eyes and Goku saying "How dirty" but he has a child did it. However to me that just showcases how much he's changed. Goku used to be a dirty fighter, he used to be spoiled and think he was strong and that he didn't have to work as much. Roshi taught him a lesson however.

[ABED]

No it can't, and you know, they could take that story and make one of their own, and not just slap DB on the cover to milk the brand for all its worth.

If the story is going to continue, I don't give a damn about the next generation. I want to follow the characters I know and love at a later stage in their lives.

I keep harping on this but stories are more than just writing. It's lightning in a bottle.

I feel the same way about this as I do about Into the Spider-verse. I still can't fathom why anyone finds Miles story interesting when it's mostly an origin story we've seen before and Peter's is genuinely fresh. We've never seen a Peter at that point in his life - he's in his 40s, estranged from MJ after years of marriage and has seen it all when it comes to crime fighting. He's not quite cynical but he's a little bored by it all as he's been there, done that.

It just seems like to you can't handle the idea of change. I'm not saying this to belittle how much you're invested in Goku's journey -- believe me I am too -- but one man's journey ending doesn't mean another one can take its place, and potential be as good or better. Dragon Ball at this current point is stagnating immensely when it comes to storytelling. You can only do the same thing with the same cast of characters over and over again before either the creator gets bored or the audience do. I mean, that's how Dragon Ball originally ended. Toriyama got burned out and didn't want continue writing or drawing Dragon Ball and the audience became less interested in stories that were being told. Dragon Ball needs fresh blood if it wants to tell more stories.

If you don't give a damn about the next generation and just want to follow the characters I know and love at a later stage in their lives, then I'm sure you must have really liked GT. Now I say this as someone who also liked GT for the neat little epilogue it was, but I didn't really get anything out seeing and old Krillin, or an old Pilaf gang, or Yamcha alone in the desert, or Gohan becoming a book work, or Piccolo doing nothing beyond dying, Vegeta growing a moustache and then wanting to catch up to Goku again. GT just reinforced the idea that there was nothing left for the original characters to do.

And I'm so glad you brought up Into the Spider-verse because that further proves my point. Miles may have a somewhat similar origin story to that of Peter Parker, but there several wonderful nuances that differentiate him from what Peter Park went through, what his initial personality is and how he interacts with the world. That's why so many people became sold on the idea Miles being the next Spider-man. He has enough similarities to Peter Parker that fans don't feel he's out of place but at the same time his character development unique while being grounded enough that fans still relate to him.

A story doesn't need to be named after the main character to be about them. Dragon Ball was the title because it sounds better than Son Goku, but make no mistake, it's about Son Goku. It's not about the world or the seven McGuffins. And when I say it's Goku's story, I'm not saying the supporting characters aren't important. Justified was about Raylan Givens and while the other characters are important and help make his story so interesting, it's still fundamentally his story.

I agree that Goku's story has ended. His and the other character's stories have reached their natural end point and that's why you bring it to a close. The Good Place could follow another group of people and explore more of the afterlife but the point was made. It's time to end it and move on. All good things end.

But the problem still remains: Dragon Ball wants to tell more stories. And there is nothing let to get out of characters like Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan or the the others beyond transformations, which at this stage, add nothing to developing or furthering their character. And if you're telling and story and not developing the character(s) as you go along, then what really are you doing? That's why I have the mentality of the ditching the old guard for completely new faces. Because then the storytelling capabilities aren't nowhere near as restricted as they are currently. You have a blank slate to work with.

You can't preemptively say that a story set in the Dragon Ball world wouldn't work with new set of character because has actually put in the effort to commit to the idea in the long run. Who knows if it would work or if it doesn't. You don't know and I don't know. At very least, I want someone to try.

What you are talking about isn't change. It's refusing to let go. This isn't real life where an over the hill athlete refuses to pass the torch. It's a story. When the central focus of the story has reached it's end, it's time to end the story. DB stagnated years ago. Putting someone else in Goku's spot gives the appearance of change without actually changing. It's been 30 years. If the audience hasn't grown tired now, it's doubtful they will. DB doesn't need fresh blood. It's best years are behind it. It's time to take it out to pasture.

DB is Goku's story so no another person taking his place doesn't have the potential to tell Goku's story better than Goku. And GT reinforced the idea that there's nothing left for the original characters to do because there isn't. It's time to end the story. Every story has a natural endpoint and DB reached its long ago. I still standby my point of screw the next generation. If the next step is becoming teachers, tell it from the teacher's POV, not the student. The whole idea is to take them in new directions and yet just when they do the story switches POV? That's such a bad move. The original characters have built up a rapport with the audience.

Miles is the least interesting Spider-Man in his own movie. He's a character created because a hack didn't want to do the hard work of creating something original so he traveled on the shoulders of giants. Just like DB's hypothetical sequels.

DB may want to tell new stories, but there's nowhere else really to go with the story. DB isn't a world. That's not what draws fans time and time again - it's Goku and his friends. The next gen will not be a blank slate. Their choices will still be dictated by what came before.

[Matches Malone]

It just seems like to you can't handle the idea of change.

I mean, that's how Dragon Ball originally ended. Toriyama got burned out and didn't want continue writing or drawing Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball needs fresh blood if it wants to tell more stories.

GT just reinforced the idea that there was nothing left for the original characters to do.

If you're telling and story and not developing the character(s) as you go along, then what really are you doing?

This applies to a lot of fan communities. It seems like fans want more or less what they're familiar with, rather than what's best for the franchise.

That, and he simply couldn't think of anywhere else to take Goku. Apart from BOG, he was right, Goku's journey was over.

100% agree. At this point the franchise is in dire need of someone willing to take a chance with something new.

GT and the post BOG modern stories.

Making money. To be fair, it makes sense financially. Broly is as safe of an idea as it gets, yet it made the most money, by far.

[ABED]

It just seems like to you can't handle the idea of change.

I mean, that's how Dragon Ball originally ended. Toriyama got burned out and didn't want continue writing or drawing Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball needs fresh blood if it wants to tell more stories.

GT just reinforced the idea that there was nothing left for the original characters to do.

If you're telling and story and not developing the character(s) as you go along, then what really are you doing?

This applies to a lot of fan communities. It seems like fans want more or less what they're familiar with, rather than what's best for the franchise.

That, and he simply couldn't think of anywhere else to take Goku. Apart from BOG, he was right, Goku's journey was over.

100% agree. At this point the franchise is in dire need of someone willing to take a chance with something new.

GT and the post BOG modern stories.

Making money. To be fair, it makes sense financially. Broly is as safe of an idea as it gets, yet it made the most money, by far.

Or DB needs to end. Keeping DB alive but with new characters won't be DB anymore. It's DB-Lite at that point. What's best for the franchise is to end.

Why do people want shows to keep going without the characters that made them? All the time I get "it could work with good writing." Ever stop to think that going on without the original characters affects the writing negatively?

[Matches Malone]

Keeping DB alive but with new characters won't be DB anymore. What's best for the franchise is to end.

Why do people want shows to keep going without the characters that made them?

The question isn't whether or not DB should end, it's how it should continue if the powers at be won't let it end. As far as I'm concerned, GT shouldn't have happened, and this revival should've been a one time special event with BOG only.

I think a lot of fans agree that DB shouldn't have continued this long, but if it has to, it might as well with a new cast. What else can you do with Goku and his friends at this point ? Apart from teasing Vegeta becoming a teacher to Cabba (which is yet to be followed up), both him and Goku have gone through no character development since BOG.

[Mad Swami]

I think a lot of fans agree that DB shouldn't have continued this long, but if it has to, it might as well with a new cast. What else can you do with Goku and his friends at this point ? Apart from teasing Vegeta becoming a teacher to Cabba (which is yet to be followed up), both him and Goku have gone through no character development since BOG.

"Apart from teasing Vegeta becoming a teacher to Cabba (which is yet to be followed up)" One of the biggest mistakes of Super in my opinion

[WittyUsername]

I know that's a Totally Not Mark-ism but I've always been iffy on this argument that Goku is a Flat Character. Maybe he counts as one now in the current long status quo, but Goku changed massively throughout the original manga story. The animalistic kid from the wilderness is a completely different person from the proud Super Saiyan warrior that he became. The argument can be made that most of the Dragon Ball cast including Vegeta are Flat Characters as this point, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I'd say it's always been more transactionary than people make out as well. Goku may change his old enemies and friends for the better in most cases, but they teach him as well. Piccolo had to step in as the voice of sanity when Goku sent their son (sorrycouldn'tresistthelowhangingfruit) Gohan into battle and forced Goku to realise that what he was doing was wrong. Before that, Frieza gives him a needed reality check that the universe isn't just Goku's consequence-free sandbox, that there are evil, unrepentant monsters out there that shouldn't be shown mercy on either a moralistic or practical level.

Well sure, but I would say that's still something that is unique about Goku that can't just be pawned off onto another fighter per say. Or at least, something that when another fighter exhibits the traits, you know they can be what Goku is. However, Goku has been with Dragonball for so long, to just focus on a new cast is a bizarre concept that I don't think an entire show can sustain.

I agree on that for sure. If they have to make a sequel that has to keep the Dragon Ball name then keeping Goku around is a must. New generation stuff following completely different casts of characters is possible but I'd rather that be shoved into its own separate thing under a new brand that people can safely ignore or embrace with zero pressure.

As for WittyUsername's point about flat characters, well... Goku keeps a few basic traits but the story of Dragon Ball follows Goku's coming-of-age narrative. But if you pick any two points from the manga and compare Goku's characterisation, there's gonna be quite significant differences. He goes from being completely okay with massacring hundreds of people in the RRA arc to scolding Vegeta for killing the Ginyu Force in the Namek arc.

I really wouldn’t count Goku’s sudden aversion to killing in the Freeza arc as an a example of character development. There was nothing in the story that demonstrated an arc where Goku needed to learn how to value life. The idea that Kami taught Goku to have respect for life is just something fans came up with to rationalize why Goku would suddenly be against killing. In the context of the arc, that was just done to demonstrate how different Goku and Vegeta are.

[ABED]

I think a lot of fans agree that DB shouldn't have continued this long, but if it has to, it might as well with a new cast. What else can you do with Goku and his friends at this point ? Apart from teasing Vegeta becoming a teacher to Cabba (which is yet to be followed up), both him and Goku have gone through no character development since BOG.

Then it's not DB. If they haven't gone through any development then develop them don't forcefeed us newbies and claim you are doing something new. There's nothing you can do with a new cast that you either 1) haven't already done with the previous one or 2) can't do with the old cast. More importantly, the new characters haven't built up a bond with the audience so nothing they do will mean as much as if the original characters did it.

[Matches Malone]

There's nothing you can do with a new cast that you either haven't already done with the previous one or can't do with the old cast.

The new characters haven't built up a bond with the audience so nothing they do will mean as much as if the original characters did it.

A story is as limited as its writer. With the right writer, anything's possible.

This is such a limited way of thinking. Did Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan, or Trunks have an established bond with us when they were first introduced ? no. Did we care about their story and what they were doing ? hell yes, and now they're fan favorites.

One of the biggest mistakes of Super in my opinion.

There's actually a number of teasers for interesting ideas that are never followed up on. Hit took part in Champa's tournament in order to gain the cube that allows one to go to other universes. We never found out why. We were told that Hit is very deadly, but was restricted by tournament rules. We never saw his true power. There were some angles acting off during the TOP, as if they were happy to see their universes erased, that was dropped. Freeza was interested in overthrowing the Omni king, but the next time we see him he's trying to get taller.

[ABED]

There's nothing you can do with a new cast that you either haven't already done with the previous one or can't do with the old cast.

The new characters haven't built up a bond with the audience so nothing they do will mean as much as if the original characters did it.

A story is as limited as its writer. With the right writer, anything's possible.

This is such a limited way of thinking. Did Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan, or Trunks have an established bond with us when they were first introduced ? no. Did we care about their story and what they were doing ? hell yes, and now they're fan favorites.

One of the biggest mistakes of Super in my opinion.

There's actually a number of teasers for interesting ideas that are never followed up on. Hit took part in Champa's tournament in order to gain the cube that allows one to go to other universes. We never found out why. We were told that Hit is very deadly, but was restricted by tournament rules. We never saw his true power. There were some angles acting off during the TOP, as if they were happy to see their universes erased, that was dropped. Freeza was interested in overthrowing the Omni king, but the next time we see him he's trying to get taller.

That is reductive. Writing is as much about lightning in a bottle as anything. It's the right author with the right idea at the right time. DB's time has past.

That's not REMOTELY what I'm talking about. Introducing new characters in the course of the narrative is great, but swapping casts and replacing leads after extended runs doesn't work well. Gohan, and Piccolo, and Vegeta were introduced as players in Goku's story. They didn't usurp his role - except Gohan and that didn't work well.

[Mad Swami]

There's nothing you can do with a new cast that you either haven't already done with the previous one or can't do with the old cast.

The new characters haven't built up a bond with the audience so nothing they do will mean as much as if the original characters did it.

A story is as limited as its writer. With the right writer, anything's possible.

This is such a limited way of thinking. Did Piccolo, Vegeta, Gohan, or Trunks have an established bond with us when they were first introduced ? no. Did we care about their story and what they were doing ? hell yes, and now they're fan favorites.

One of the biggest mistakes of Super in my opinion.

There's actually a number of teasers for interesting ideas that are never followed up on. Hit took part in Champa's tournament in order to gain the cube that allows one to go to other universes. We never found out why. We were told that Hit is very deadly, but was restricted by tournament rules. We never saw his true power. There were some angles acting off during the TOP, as if they were happy to see their universes erased, that was dropped. Freeza was interested in overthrowing the Omni king, but the next time we see him he's trying to get taller.

Yeah I really hope Frieza isn't just the villain of the week or some sort of character putting the things in motion just to elicit fights. I was already iffy about his return but he was honestly my favorite part of Super for the most part. I think it's fine that we are getting him doing smaller things first so that they can save the real big stuff for the return of the series

[Mad Swami]

except Gohan and that didn't work well.

This might derail the thread, but I have to ask. Why is that? It's objectively true, but why do you think Gohan couldn't fully take the mantel for an entire arc?

[ABED]

except Gohan and that didn't work well.

This might derail the thread, but I have to ask. Why is that? It's objectively true, but why do you think Gohan couldn't fully take the mantel for an entire arc?

Because Gohan is both a reluctant hero and to earnest. The feel and tone of DB fits Goku like a glove. Also, Gohan is simply not proactive enough to be the lead.

[Mad Swami]

except Gohan and that didn't work well.

This might derail the thread, but I have to ask. Why is that? It's objectively true, but why do you think Gohan couldn't fully take the mantel for an entire arc?

Because Gohan is both a reluctant hero and to earnest. The feel and tone of DB fits Goku like a glove. Also, Gohan is simply not proactive enough to be the lead.

I 100% agree but I always ask, why did the Buu saga need someone to be proactive like Goku? In the end Babidi's minions came to the arena as did Shin. There were already things that could make Gohan have to fight. Not saying that I don't like the way the Buu saga happened but I am curious to hear your thoughts

[ABED]

Because proactive main characters are more interesting than main characters that things just happen to. If another character is the one working to determine the course of the story, why aren't we following them?

[Mad Swami]

Because proactive main characters are more interesting than main characters that things just happen to. If another character is the one working to determine the course of the story, why aren't we following them?

Sure, but it's still interesting to me because Goku is at his least active during the Buu saga

[ABED]

Because proactive main characters are more interesting than main characters that things just happen to. If another character is the one working to determine the course of the story, why aren't we following them?

Sure, but it's still interesting to me because Goku is at his least active during the Buu saga

Only because he's dead. That doesn't make him not proactive. He's not able to be proactive but the second he's able to do anything, he becomes proactive. Gohan rarely takes action. It's when he does that he becomes interesting, like his journey in the Saiyan arc or in the Namek arc when he decides to go to Namek even against his mother's wishes.