GT continuation
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
-
- Newbie
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:11 pm
GT continuation
I've tried to look up some information about whether or not GT is a continuation of the manga. Atsushi Maekawa mentions DBZ a lot in his interview, which, I'd assume, refers to the anime, yet Kōzō Morishita, Toriyama and Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru mention the original comic more than anything else. Is there anything that directly states whether GT is a continuation of the manga (or anime)? Or is this kind of left for your own interpretation?
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: GT continuation
I think it’s kind of a distinction without a difference, and points to their lack of particular care about “canonicity” and “continuity” (particularly at that time).
There was nothing else. All there was... was GT. And it was the official sequel. There was no real need to make any concrete, minutia-filled distinction over anything. It just was what it was.
(This is opposed to Dragon Ball Online, and TDC can probably chime in more on the specifics, but wasn’t the story there that they only got the rights to manga material and it was conceived therefore exclusively as a continuation of the manga and by that very nature replacing GT?)
There was nothing else. All there was... was GT. And it was the official sequel. There was no real need to make any concrete, minutia-filled distinction over anything. It just was what it was.
(This is opposed to Dragon Ball Online, and TDC can probably chime in more on the specifics, but wasn’t the story there that they only got the rights to manga material and it was conceived therefore exclusively as a continuation of the manga and by that very nature replacing GT?)
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
Re: GT continuation
Since the last ep of Z has a preview for GT in the 'next episode' slot with (DBZ) Goku narrating and calling it a new adventure we can pretty much take it as a direct sequel to the anime at least.
Re: GT continuation
I guess you could say it is a continuation of the anime because that's all Toei could continue. There was no manga of GT or of DB at all anymore, and without explicitly saying it follows it, then it most definitely does not.
However, original anime and manga are pretty much the same, you could say there is at least a 95% match between them, so GT is more likely a continuation of the story itself rather than deviating exclusively from the manga.
However, original anime and manga are pretty much the same, you could say there is at least a 95% match between them, so GT is more likely a continuation of the story itself rather than deviating exclusively from the manga.
- ABED
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 20280
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
- Location: Skippack, PA
- Contact:
Re: GT continuation
I agree with Mike on this, but for what it's worth, GT's most notable antagonist, Baby, was a member of a race that was a creation of the anime and from what I can remember, the Tsufuruians were never mentioned in the manga.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: GT continuation
That’s certainly true, but I guess you could also go down the rabbit hole of “Toriyama’s the one who gave the initial Tsufruian info for filler soooooooo” (which sure sounds similar to “lots of extra lore in Kakarot originally came from Toriyama soooooo”).
Then on the other hand you have other filler-only and movie-only characters that show up in stuff like the Super 17 arc sooooooo...
(That’s why I think it’s bit of an exercise in futility. It’s a sequel! To what? Stuff before it! What stuff? Whatever! )
Then on the other hand you have other filler-only and movie-only characters that show up in stuff like the Super 17 arc sooooooo...
(That’s why I think it’s bit of an exercise in futility. It’s a sequel! To what? Stuff before it! What stuff? Whatever! )
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: GT continuation
I've always had an internal sorting method when it comes to stuff Toriyama has contributed over the years and how much that stuff is canon.
For example, Toriyama designed some of the elements for the Wedding Dress arc. Does that mean that arc is canon to the manga? In my opinion no: look at Bardock. For years it was figured that was as good as canon considering Toriyama liked the story and even included a cameo of the guy in his manga, but then Toriyama writes Dragon Ball - and all of a sudden that story isn't canon to the manga anymore and probably never was!
So with that in mind, while Toriyama did design some significant early elements used for GT (including the Tsufruians retroactively), that doesn't for me mean it's a sequel to the manga, only the anime. And in today's context, Dragon Ball Z specifically.
For example, Toriyama designed some of the elements for the Wedding Dress arc. Does that mean that arc is canon to the manga? In my opinion no: look at Bardock. For years it was figured that was as good as canon considering Toriyama liked the story and even included a cameo of the guy in his manga, but then Toriyama writes Dragon Ball - and all of a sudden that story isn't canon to the manga anymore and probably never was!
So with that in mind, while Toriyama did design some significant early elements used for GT (including the Tsufruians retroactively), that doesn't for me mean it's a sequel to the manga, only the anime. And in today's context, Dragon Ball Z specifically.
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: GT continuation
Even Super doesn’t necessarily follow the manga continuity to a T. According to the anime, stuff like Ginyu swapping bodies with Bulma apparently still happened, while the manga has Goku mention Mt. Paozu, which is a Toei invention.
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: GT continuation
Well here we get into my weird "continuity families" idea to do work that Toei doesn't concern itself with.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:22 pm Even Super doesn’t necessarily follow the manga continuity to a T. According to the anime, stuff like Ginyu swapping bodies with Bulma apparently still happened, while the manga has Goku mention Mt. Paozu, which is a Toei invention.
Spoiler:
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: GT continuation
Super doesn’t really work as a follow up to Kai. The Bardock special is canon as far as Kai is concerned, as is that filler version of Hell that Toei came up with back in the day.KBABZ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:17 amWell here we get into my weird "continuity families" idea to do work that Toei doesn't concern itself with.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:22 pm Even Super doesn’t necessarily follow the manga continuity to a T. According to the anime, stuff like Ginyu swapping bodies with Bulma apparently still happened, while the manga has Goku mention Mt. Paozu, which is a Toei invention.
Spoiler:
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: GT continuation
How so? Outside of Yamcha playing baseball again I haven't heard of any major classic Z stuff that wasn't already in Kai.
- Robo4900
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4386
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
- Location: In another time and place...
Re: GT continuation
Only in one scene at the very beginning, which could easily have happened in the timeline established by the Broly movie.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:39 am The Bardock special is canon as far as Kai is concerned
That filler version of hell is in both Kai and Super.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:39 am as is that filler version of Hell that Toei came up with back in the day.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: GT continuation
It definitely could not have happened in the Minus timeline. Goku’s revised backstory establishes that he was sent to Earth as a toddler by his parents to keep him safe. That conflicts with the Bardock special, where it was shown that he was sent to Earth as an infant specifically to conquer it.Robo4900 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:45 amOnly in one scene at the very beginning, which could easily have happened in the timeline established by the Broly movie.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:39 am The Bardock special is canon as far as Kai is concerned
That filler version of hell is in both Kai and Super.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:39 am as is that filler version of Hell that Toei came up with back in the day.
Anyway, what do you mean about that filler Hell being in Super? The only time I ever recall Hell being shown there is when Freeza is there, and that version of Hell is significantly different from the one shown in Kai.
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: GT continuation
- KBABZ
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5180
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
- Location: The tallest tower in West City
Re: GT continuation
If you ignore the opening scene with the two operators, there's nothing really that contradicts what we see in the Broly movie. In that movie, we see brief glimpses of Bardock making his final stand against Frieza's attack, just as in the special. In Kai, we see a bit more of this, so for me it lines up fairly snugly.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:01 am It definitely could not have happened in the Minus timeline. Goku’s revised backstory establishes that he was sent to Earth as a toddler by his parents to keep him safe. That conflicts with the Bardock special, where it was shown that he was sent to Earth as an infant specifically to conquer it.
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: GT continuation
It’s not just the scene with the operators. We see Goku in his space pod in Kai, where he’s clearly an infant who isn’t wearing any armor. You’d basically have to ignore that entire opening prologue in order to accept Super as a continuation of Kai.KBABZ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:11 pmIf you ignore the opening scene with the two operators, there's nothing really that contradicts what we see in the Broly movie. In that movie, we see brief glimpses of Bardock making his final stand against Frieza's attack, just as in the special. In Kai, we see a bit more of this, so for me it lines up fairly snugly.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:01 am It definitely could not have happened in the Minus timeline. Goku’s revised backstory establishes that he was sent to Earth as a toddler by his parents to keep him safe. That conflicts with the Bardock special, where it was shown that he was sent to Earth as an infant specifically to conquer it.
- Robo4900
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4386
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
- Location: In another time and place...
Re: GT continuation
Sure. And Kai's presentation of the Bardock Special footage has dialogue that suggests this is basically the Minus version of events.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:01 am It definitely could not have happened in the Minus timeline. Goku’s revised backstory establishes that he was sent to Earth as a toddler by his parents to keep him safe. That conflicts with the Bardock special, where it was shown that he was sent to Earth as an infant specifically to conquer it.
There are minor contradictions, but nothing worth fussing about. Dragon Ball's always been riddled with inconsistency. Best to just enjoy each story for what it is.
The one hell Freeza is in is entirely compatible with Kai's version; the Ogres could have easily put him there for whatever reason.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:01 am Anyway, what do you mean about that filler Hell being in Super? The only time I ever recall Hell being shown there is when Freeza is there, and that version of Hell is significantly different from the one shown in Kai.
However, it is entirely NOT compatible with the manga, where the dead don't EVER have their bodies unless they're a special case like Goku. People like Freeza would then have their dead souls cleansed and reincarnated, like Kid Boo. ResF ignores this.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
- Location: Houston, Texas
- Robo4900
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4386
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
- Location: In another time and place...
Re: GT continuation
He shouldn't have his body AT ALL in the manga, though. He shouldn't even EXIST; his body should have been left in the mortal realm, on earth, and his soul should have been cleansed and reincarnated. And this isn't a minor thing, either! It's the subject of a key moment between Piccolo and Vegeta before Vegeta makes the big sacrifice in the Boo arc.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:32 pmBut Freeza isn’t a cyborg when he’s in Hell in that filler scene.
Quite a minor quibble, if you ask me.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:32 pm Plus, he shouldn’t be aware that Goku fought Majin Boo.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
- Location: Houston, Texas
Re: GT continuation
I believe it was stated in the Universe Survival arc that Freeza was stuck in Hell because he refused to allow his soul to be purified. As for him keeping his body, yeah, I don’t know how that’s supposed to be explained. It’s even more confusing when Freeza gets wished back to life, and his body is in pieces like it was before Trunks vaporized him.Robo4900 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:39 pmHe shouldn't have his body AT ALL in the manga, though. He shouldn't even EXIST; his body should have been left in the mortal realm, on earth, and his soul should have been cleansed and reincarnated. And this isn't a minor thing, either! It's the subject of a key moment between Piccolo and Vegeta before Vegeta makes the big sacrifice in the Boo arc.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:32 pmBut Freeza isn’t a cyborg when he’s in Hell in that filler scene.
Quite a minor quibble, if you ask me.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:32 pm Plus, he shouldn’t be aware that Goku fought Majin Boo.
Still, his soul is presented as a cyborg before he gets revived, so there’s that.