Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Xeno Goku Black]

So Jiren was about as strong as Ultra Instinct Goku, he kinda won out just because the form wasn't for stable for Goku and it ran out.

Seemingly now Goku is going to kick back into the form and this time it will be stable. If Goku beats around Moro with ease then Jiren is gonna seem the stronger of the two.

[Hugo Boss]

Huh? When was Jiren about as strong as Ultra Instinct Goku in the manga? As far as I remember, he only didn’t get completely demolished because Goku couldn’t maintain the form for long.

Besides, Merus confirmed that Goku is stronger this time and Ultra Instinct will probably function like completed Super Saiyan Blue. So, surpassing Moro doesn’t necessarily mean Moro is weaker than Jiren.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Stronger then KKx20 Goku from Episode 110

Goku obviously became a lot stronger then since

Nope.

No statement exists that confirms that.

Feats does, and feats show Blue Goku 122/123 > X 20 Goku 110

[FishermanJohnWest]

Don't know if this has been asked before but here it goes

with how the Moro saga is going how strong do you think SS Broly is now compared to UI Sign/Omen Goku and Perfected SSB Vegeta?
would he be able to hold his own or transform again into his Legendary form?

unknown honestly

SSJ Broly in the manga made them run away and fuse

So who knows how Goku and Vegeta right now compare to SSJ Broly

As for Full Power Broly, depends on Beerus and how both of them rank to Beerus

[FishermanJohnWest]

So Jiren was about as strong as Ultra Instinct Goku, he kinda won out just because the form wasn't for stable for Goku and it ran out.

Seemingly now Goku is going to kick back into the form and this time it will be stable. If Goku beats around Moro with ease then Jiren is gonna seem the stronger of the two.

Goku right now >> Goku TOP

Omen right now is most likely > MUI TOP let alone MUI

Moro would break Jiren

[Omgzord]

So Jiren was about as strong as Ultra Instinct Goku, he kinda won out just because the form wasn't for stable for Goku and it ran out.

Seemingly now Goku is going to kick back into the form and this time it will be stable. If Goku beats around Moro with ease then Jiren is gonna seem the stronger of the two.

This claim is ignorant at best.
Goku right now is >>> Goku from ToP
UI Omen >>> ToP UI Omen
it's also likely that the current Omen is strong than UI from the ToP based on how much stronger Goku got since then.

Moro would demolish Jiren.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I'm inclined to believe that 7-Moro-3's strength still can't surpass Anime's Jiren. His will power is too great. In a battle between them, although he could push Jiren all out, he would probably overcome Moro, without his abilities ofc.

There's also the notion that MUI in the anime is stronger than the Manga, which may or may not be true. But Jiren is def a different person.

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

My feeling is that UI, SSB Gogeta, and Jiren (Limit-Break) are all about on par with each other, forming a primary tier; and UI Sign and SSB Evolved are similarly on par with each other, forming a secondary tier; with SSJ FP Broly being comfortably above the former tier, and a good bit below the latter one.

Retrofitting the God Scale to the Log Scale (that’s still all the rage with power-scalers, right?) I would have it like this:

9 - SSB (Complete)
10 - UI Sign, Blue Evolved
10.7 - SSJFP Broly
11 - UI, Jiren, SSB Fusion

Of course, in the current arc, Goku and Vegeta are suggested to have greatly improved since the TOP as a result of their training, so Moro is currently a little harder to gauge.

If SSB (Complete) is now a 10 (for example), UI Sign/Blue Evolved would be an 11, and UI/SSB Fusion would be a 12, meaning Moro would have to be at least an 11, and therefore likely stronger than Jiren from the TOP.

If I had to guess, Moro-73 would probably be a 12, taking into account Piccolo’s concerns that fusion would be useless against him, after just having seen Moro-73 dodge Vegeta’s Spirit-Fission (this is assuming SSB Fusion and UI are more or less co-equal, so Moro-73 would have to be at least that strong to land a hit on Gogeta and nullify the fusion).

Assuming Goku and Vegeta haven’t advanced that much in terms of sheer power and their improvements have more to do with skill, movement, stamina, etc., Moro-73 would be about even with UI, Jiren, and SSB Fusion (11) and comfortably above SSJFP Broly (10.7).

But that’s just my conjecture based around my own ideas for the scale of these various forms.

[ZombieVito]

Stronger then KKx20 Goku from Episode 110

Goku obviously became a lot stronger then since

Nope.

No statement exists that confirms that.

Feats does, and feats show Blue Goku 122/123 > X 20 Goku 110

Agree to disagree bud.

[Hugo Boss]

I'm inclined to believe that 7-Moro-3's strength still can't surpass Anime's Jiren.

I think this comparison is not fair, because there isn’t an anime version of Moro yet. So, we don’t know how it would work out.

Anyway, Piccolo said something intrigue about Moro’s battle power in chapter 61, that it can’t be overcome with training alone, which kinda contrasts with Jiren’s grow. No direct comparisons were made, which is weird, but it wouldn’t be farfetched to assume current Moro is the most difficult foe Goku has encountered until now, in order for a angel to unleash full power.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I'm inclined to believe that 7-Moro-3's strength still can't surpass Anime's Jiren.

I think this comparison is not fair, because there isn’t an anime version of Moro yet. So, we don’t know how it would work out.

Anyway, Piccolo said something intrigue about Moro’s battle power in chapter 61, that it can’t be overcome with training alone, which kinda contrasts with Jiren’s grow. No direct comparisons were made, which is weird, but it wouldn’t be farfetched to assume current Moro is the most difficult foe Goku has encountered until now, in order for a angel to unleash full power.

More like true power from an angel Trainee who only used martial arts vs Moro.

Granted we must wait for his anime version to appear, but I make the comparison of manga Moro in the anime scale. All in all feats are still a thing and when Manga Jiren was defeated easily by MUI, Anime Jiren countered and even overpowered Goku who only via a Rage boost defeated Jiren (and after an intense struggle for a few seconds, which is a lot for MFTL+ characters).

And anime goku>>manga goku

[Omgzord]

Comparing an anime Jiren to manga Moro is pretty random though and pretty unfair tbh.
Manga has a very different scale compared to the anime the manga version character are much weaker than their anime counterparts

[FishermanJohnWest]

Anime doesn't matter, cause when the anime comes back it's following the manga events

And if they do a saga for Broly, then Jiren will become fodder to him quickly cause Toei loves Broly nearly as much as Gogeta or Goku

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Ultimately, the question is how much stronger all of these fighters are compared to before in equivalent forms, and if those forms are truly so many leaps and bounds beyond.

[Xeno Goku Black]

Moro would demolish Jiren.

That's based on nothing.

Jiren was a match for Ultra Instinct Goku. Goku lost because his usage of the form is unstable and didn't last long.

In the next chapter it'll last longer. Merus said nothing of him being stronger than before just that it would be more stable. If Goku completely overpowers Moro then he's weaker than Jiren.

So far Moro has done nothing to suggest he's on Jirens level.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Moro would demolish Jiren.

That's based on nothing.

Jiren was a match for Ultra Instinct Goku. Goku lost because his usage of the form is unstable and didn't last long.

In the next chapter it'll last longer. Merus said nothing of him being stronger than before just that it would be more stable. If Goku completely overpowers Moro then he's weaker than Jiren.

So far Moro has done nothing to suggest he's on Jirens level.

Your legit ignoring what the series had shown, this is a Goku that's post Broly, post ToP and 6 months training. Moro stomping Omen right now proves he is >> Jiren since statements and feats say Omen right now is just as good if not better then MUI from the TOP

[Xeno Goku Black]

Your legit ignoring what the series had shown, this is a Goku that's post Broly, post ToP and 6 months training. Moro stomping Omen right now proves he is >> Jiren since statements and feats say Omen right now is just as good if not better then MUI from the TOP

You seem to be making an assumption on how much they grew in that time.

Obviously Omen isn't as strong as MUI back then nor would that even make any sense but Merus never said that his Ultra Instinct would be stronger now. They said it would be more stable and that was all.

It's going to be the same Ultra Instinct that was seen as the ToP but it's gonna last a lot longer.

[ZombieVito]

So is Omen = UI in power?

[FishermanJohnWest]

Your legit ignoring what the series had shown, this is a Goku that's post Broly, post ToP and 6 months training. Moro stomping Omen right now proves he is >> Jiren since statements and feats say Omen right now is just as good if not better then MUI from the TOP

You seem to be making an assumption on how much they grew in that time.

Obviously Omen isn't as strong as MUI back then nor would that even make any sense but Merus never said that his Ultra Instinct would be stronger now. They said it would be more stable and that was all.

It's going to be the same Ultra Instinct that was seen as the ToP but it's gonna last a lot longer.

I don't need to make assumptions at all cause the series says Goku got a lot stronger then before and by default Goku in Omen right now is >>>> Omen from the TOP -.- common sense

They said Blue Goku is stronger then ever, and Omen shown feats at least comparable to UI without even going FP

So no, Goku Omen is at least comparable to MUI from the TOP, saying otherwise is just laughable and ignoring the typical way of how DB power progress things

[Gogeta_Blue]

Moro would demolish Jiren.

Merus said nothing of him being stronger than before

Except that he did.



What exactly is his current strength? If it isn't stronger than before then it wouldn't be more stable, would it? The entire point Merus is making is it'll be more stable because he's stronger now.

Current Blue Goku >>> ToP Blue Goku.

Current Omen Goku >>> ToP Omen Goku

Kinda stands to reason that current UI Goku >>> ToP UI Goku.