Does anyone else feel that much of the DB fandom enforces low standards?

[Matches Malone]

"Star Wars is about some kid can use mind powers and giant glow sticks, and he fights some other guy with mind powers and giant glow sticks who also has breathing problems. And the kids best friend is Bigfoot."

Speaking of star wars, I have to get around to watching them, at least the original trilogy. Thankfully they're only 40 years old, so I'm not late or anything.

[Dbzfan94]

"Star Wars is about some kid can use mind powers and giant glow sticks, and he fights some other guy with mind powers and giant glow sticks who also has breathing problems. And the kids best friend is Bigfoot."

Speaking of star wars, I have to get around to watching them, at least the original trilogy. Thankfully they're only 40 years old, so I'm not late or anything.

I've only seen A New Hope when I was a kid so I'm right there with you lol.

[ABED]

You could literally summarize ANY story in a way that makes it sound silly.

"The dark knight is about a guy who dresses in a Halloween bat suit and some clown dude who wants to put smiles on people's faces...lame. "

I agree, you can take the greatest works of art and describe them in a way that makes them sound bad. That's not to say classic DB is a great work of art, but it's far better than Super's fans give it credit for.

To which I would say that Batman and DB are inherently absurd. That doesn't mean we can't invest in the stakes just because something would be silly in real life.

[Planetnamek]

This guy seems like one of these alt-right types that hates the fact that Star Trek and Star Wars are now not trying solely to appeal to straight white males.

If the only thing you can do in an argument is completely ignore the points someone's making and instead go after their political views, then you've pretty much proven them right.

In terms of star wars, I'm not a fan so I don't know the ins and outs of the franchise, but everything I've seen from people who aren't happy with it has nothing to do with the gender or skin color of the main characters. I think that argument is pretty much dead now that John Boyega came out recently and ripped them and Disney to shreds, and I highly doubt he's a secret alt-right member. Then again, if modern star wars fans are anything like modern DB fans, I wouldn't be surprised if they start accusing him of being one.

If you look up Japanese reviews of any major DB media, you'll notice that the "its just for kids, don't take it seriously, its just dumb fun, etc" attitude is mostly nonexistent among them.

I can tell you for a fact this attitude is very new, as I never saw it prior to Super's debut. God knows GT never got any excuses, and if anything, these same "fans" who justify practically everything modern DB does will turn around and rip GT to shreds for less.

If one's political views are something like "COVID is a hoax", "global warming is a myth" "9/11 was an inside job" or "Hitler was right", then its a pretty safe bet that whatever "viewpoints" that person has are complete bunk and not worth listening to and should in fact be completely ignored for one's own sanity and safety.

So the notion that i've "proven them right" just because i'm calling them out on their asinine bullshit is completely and utterly laughable

I've seen plenty of racism from Star Wars fans, Boyega got plenty of it firsthand and he's talked about it recently:https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/mov ... d-1054189/

It sounds like you've not fully read everything Boyega has said, if you actually did you would know for a fact that he didn't say the new films were total garbage, he just criticized Disney for not using his character better. I find it disturbing that so many(mostly white if i'm being frank) Star Wars fanboys are using Boyega as a battering ram to attack the new Star Wars films when in reality they don't actually give a damn about Boyega or what he went through, they just another excuse to go after the EEEEEEEEEEVIL boogeyman that they are convinced is Kathleen Kennedy(which is TOTALLY not blatantly misogynist at all! )


Anyway to keep this on the topic of DB, attacking "modern" DB fans just makes you come off as spoiled and entitled, looking down on DB fans for daring to like Super does not make you superior to them in any way, shape or form, it just makes you look horribly out of touch, this whole "Stop liking things I don't like!" attitude is horribly toxic in any fandom and needs to stop.

It sounds like you need to stop living inside your own bubble and assuming that your frankly misinformed views about these pieces of media are the only correct ones.

BTW GT got mixed reception when it came out, you don't know for a fact that "nobody gave it any excuses" as you were not living in Japan back when it first came out, therefore you have no way of knowing that for an absolute fact.

"Star Wars is about some kid can use mind powers and giant glow sticks, and he fights some other guy with mind powers and giant glow sticks who also has breathing problems. And the kids best friend is Bigfoot."

Speaking of star wars, I have to get around to watching them, at least the original trilogy. Thankfully they're only 40 years old, so I'm not late or anything.

Wait just one damn minute, you're bitching about the new Star Wars films when you haven't even seen the old ones yet? What kind of logic is that?

[Cure Dragon 255]

This guy seems like one of these alt-right types that hates the fact that Star Trek and Star Wars are now not trying solely to appeal to straight white males.

If the only thing you can do in an argument is completely ignore the points someone's making and instead go after their political views, then you've pretty much proven them right.

In terms of star wars, I'm not a fan so I don't know the ins and outs of the franchise, but everything I've seen from people who aren't happy with it has nothing to do with the gender or skin color of the main characters. I think that argument is pretty much dead now that John Boyega came out recently and ripped them and Disney to shreds, and I highly doubt he's a secret alt-right member. Then again, if modern star wars fans are anything like modern DB fans, I wouldn't be surprised if they start accusing him of being one.

If you look up Japanese reviews of any major DB media, you'll notice that the "its just for kids, don't take it seriously, its just dumb fun, etc" attitude is mostly nonexistent among them.

I can tell you for a fact this attitude is very new, as I never saw it prior to Super's debut. God knows GT never got any excuses, and if anything, these same "fans" who justify practically everything modern DB does will turn around and rip GT to shreds for less.

If one's political views are something like "COVID is a hoax", "global warming is a myth" "9/11 was an inside job" or "Hitler was right", then its a pretty safe bet that whatever "viewpoints" that person has are complete bunk and not worth listening to and should in fact be completely ignored for one's own sanity and safety.

So the notion that i've "proven them right" just because i'm calling them out on their asinine bullshit is completely and utterly laughable

I've seen plenty of racism from Star Wars fans, Boyega got plenty of it firsthand and he's talked about it recently:https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/mov ... d-1054189/

It sounds like you've not fully read everything Boyega has said, if you actually did you would know for a fact that he didn't say the new films were total garbage, he just criticized Disney for not using his character better. I find it disturbing that so many(mostly white if i'm being frank) Star Wars fanboys are using Boyega as a battering ram to attack the new Star Wars films when in reality they don't actually give a damn about Boyega or what he went through, they just another excuse to go after the EEEEEEEEEEVIL boogeyman that they are convinced is Kathleen Kennedy(which is TOTALLY not blatantly misogynist at all! )


Anyway to keep this on the topic of DB, attacking "modern" DB fans just makes you come off as spoiled and entitled, looking down on DB fans for daring to like Super does not make you superior to them in any way, shape or form, it just makes you look horribly out of touch, this whole "Stop liking things I don't like!" attitude is horribly toxic in any fandom and needs to stop.

It sounds like you need to stop living inside your own bubble and assuming that your frankly misinformed views about these pieces of media are the only correct ones.

BTW GT got mixed reception when it came out, you don't know for a fact that "nobody gave it any excuses" as you were not living in Japan back when it first came out, therefore you have no way of knowing that for an absolute fact.

"Star Wars is about some kid can use mind powers and giant glow sticks, and he fights some other guy with mind powers and giant glow sticks who also has breathing problems. And the kids best friend is Bigfoot."

Speaking of star wars, I have to get around to watching them, at least the original trilogy. Thankfully they're only 40 years old, so I'm not late or anything.

Wait just one damn minute, you're bitching about the new Star Wars films when you haven't even seen the old ones yet? What kind of logic is that?

I may not agree with you on many things but BOY AM I DOING SO WITH THIS RIGHT HERE!

[Matches Malone]

If one's political views are something like "COVID is a hoax", "global warming is a myth" "9/11 was an inside job" or "Hitler was right", then its a pretty safe bet that whatever "viewpoints" that person has are complete bunk and not worth listening to and should in fact be completely ignored for one's own sanity and safety.

I completely disagree with these four viewpoints as well, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to listen to what someone has to say outside of politics. I don't know where you stand on every political issue, will I not listen to what you have to say if I find out you disagree with me on something politically ? of course not.

I find it disturbing that so many Star Wars fanboys are using Boyega as a battering ram to attack the new Star Wars films when in reality they just another excuse to go after the EVIL boogeyman that they are convinced is Kathleen Kennedy

The last 2 main star wars movies completely under performed at the box office, resulting in all future plans being put on hold for years. The anthology films have seemingly been killed off due to Solo completely flopping. Fan boys of any franchise don't have big enough numbers to make such an impact one way or another, so whatever SW did following Rogue One didn't sit well with the average moviegoer. I bring this up because they don't care about an actor's gender or skin color, nor do they know who Kennedy or any producer is.

Attacking "modern" DB fans just makes you come off as spoiled and entitled, looking down on DB fans for daring to like Super does not make you superior to them in any way, shape or form, it just makes you look horribly out of touch, this whole "Stop liking things I don't like!" attitude is horribly toxic in any fandom and needs to stop.

No one's telling you what to like or dislike, we're just pointing out that the community's standards have gone down since 2015. You can like Super as much as you want, but let's not act like it couldn't have been far better than it was. It'll help if people would stop spreading lies about Modern DB being no different from classic DB. The whole "you're just too old for DB if you don't like Super", "you're blinded by nostalgia", etc. is getting pretty old as well.

It sounds like you need to stop living inside your own bubble and assuming that your frankly misinformed views about these pieces of media are the only correct ones.

Misinformed ? Most of the issues pointed out about Super are factually true, confirmed by people who've worked on the show.

BTW GT got mixed reception when it came out.

I'm talking about within the last 10 years. GT has, generally speaking of course, been thrown under the bus. Super though ? although it also gets called out, it's nowhere near as much as GT, which is probably due to Toriyama's name being attached to it.

Wait just one damn minute, you're bitching about the new Star Wars films when you haven't even seen the old ones yet? What kind of logic is that?

I said in my reply to you that I wasn't a fan and am just commenting based on what I've been seeing over the years in articles and comment sections.

[Skar]

This guy seems like one of these alt-right types that hates the fact that Star Trek and Star Wars are now not trying solely to appeal to straight white males. All those types of Youtubers do that smugness thing, this guy is barely any better then that hack Steven Crowder.

Not that it matters but I googled RetroBlasting's political views and found this. He talks about his mother being liberal and father more of a centrist while arguing the Confederate Flag is a symbol of oppression. I don't know if he goes into more detail about his political views but it makes sense not to since it's irrelevant to his channel. If people bring up politics, they usually get accused of some ulterior motive from a different side that doesn't address the criticism directly. You'll find people from across the world with widely opposing political views while still sharing the same opinions on a piece of entertainment so it's best not to make assumptions and leave politics out of it.

I find it disturbing that so many(mostly white if i'm being frank) Star Wars fanboys are using Boyega as a battering ram to attack the new Star Wars films when in reality they don't actually give a damn about Boyega or what he went through, they just another excuse to go after the EEEEEEEEEEVIL boogeyman that they are convinced is Kathleen Kennedy(which is TOTALLY not blatantly misogynist at all! )

Do you have to jump to racism or misogyny as the main reason why someone wouldn't like the SW sequels? No doubt there are those who are racist or misogynist but it's more of a vocal online minority. There have been many strong female and minority characters in classics of the genre with no complaints. If someone is willing to watch all the recent SW films, it's unlikely the race or gender of the main characters is their reason for not liking it.

I think it's more of general criticism towards the four R's (remakes, reboots, revivals, and requels) than anything that only applies to the new SW. Revisiting a franchise that already had a conclusion, a story that retreads old ground, bringing back old characters mostly for nostalgia and fan service, etc. A fan could have the same criticism for Jurassic World despite that having a white male lead. These complaints would still exist even if Rey was a male and Finn was white.

I'm not white by the way and I actually enjoyed Jurassic World and most of the recent SW films. I can still admit if nostalgia and fan service were a big reason why I enjoyed them and not that I felt they really added anything worthwhile or memorable to the franchise. You can enjoy something without necessarily thinking it's great or needing to justify why you enjoyed it. I think that's goes back to the main point of this thread. It's about people who dismiss criticism not that people who like it are wrong. For example, some people thought that a certain character's sacrifice (in case you haven't read it) in the DBS manga was undeserved and didn't have enough buildup. I think it's valid criticism but the scene worked for me although I'm not sure if it was because I thought it was good or because it was referencing another character's sacrifice. Either way I don't need to shut down their criticism to argue why I personally liked it.

[ABED]

I completely disagree with these four viewpoints as well, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to listen to what someone has to say outside of politics. I don't know where you stand on every political issue, will I not listen to what you have to say if I find out you disagree with me on something politically ? of course not.

But if you are making such absurd claims politically, it doesn't speak well to their ability to make a well reasoned argument in anything.

[SupremeKai25]

I'm talking about within the last 10 years. GT has, generally speaking of course, been thrown under the bus. Super though ? although it also gets called out, it's nowhere near as much as GT, which is probably due to Toriyama's name being attached to it.

Or maybe because Super is genuinely better and more entertaining than GT...

[Matches Malone]

If you are making such absurd claims politically, it doesn't speak well to their ability to make a well reasoned argument in anything.

That makes 0 sense. Your views on one topic shouldn't discredit your views on another. We can disagree on politics and agree on something else, and vice versa. If your opinion on education is the complete opposite of mine, does that mean we can't agree on other things like DB ? of course not.

You'll find people from across the world with widely opposing political views while still sharing the same opinions on a piece of entertainment so it's best not to make assumptions and leave politics out of it.

It's definitely best to leave politics out of things (unless the topic is political of course). The minute someone starts discarding people's opinions based on their political views (which they may not know for sure as you've proven), then that person pretty much lost all credibility.

[ABED]

That makes 0 sense. Your views on one topic shouldn't discredit your views on another. We can disagree on politics and agree on something else, and vice versa. If your opinion on education is the complete opposite of mine, does that mean we can't agree on other things like DB ? of course not.

It speaks to your ability to make a reasonable argument, which that video didn't make.

[Matches Malone]

Maybe because Super is genuinely better and more entertaining than GT...

I agree that Super is more entertaining, far more in fact. In terms of which is better, I have to give it to GT, because it at least tried to be original and try new things.

It speaks to your ability to make a reasonable argument, which that video didn't make.

It doesn't speak to anything, your views on one topic have nothing to do with your views on other topics.

[SupremeKai25]

Maybe because Super is genuinely better and more entertaining than GT...

I agree that Super is more entertaining, far more in fact. In terms of which is better, I have to give it to GT, because it at least tried to be original and try new things.

It speaks to your ability to make a reasonable argument, which that video didn't make.

It doesn't speak to anything, your views on one topic have nothing to do with your views on other topics.

Trying new things doesn't make something automatically better.

[ABED]

Ridiculous. You think someone can take in evidence and make a reasoned sensible and cogent argument about art, but somehow come to the most absurd conclusions in politics? What could lead to such a massive disconnect?

Explain how you think someone can have such sloppy thinking in one area and have a clear logical well reasoned viewpoint on another?

[MasenkoHA]

If you are making such absurd claims politically, it doesn't speak well to their ability to make a well reasoned argument in anything.

That makes 0 sense. Your views on one topic shouldn't discredit your views on another. We can disagree on politics and agree on something else, and vice versa. If your opinion on education is the complete opposite of mine, does that mean we can't agree on other things like DB ? of course not.

You'll find people from across the world with widely opposing political views while still sharing the same opinions on a piece of entertainment so it's best not to make assumptions and leave politics out of it.

It's definitely best to leave politics out of things (unless the topic is political of course). The minute someone starts discarding people's opinions based on their political views (which they may not know for sure as you've proven), then that person pretty much lost all credibility.

To a point, sure difference of political opinions such as education, tax spending, etc shouldn’t matter but if someone’s political opinions favored police brutality, discrimination against any type of minority, ect then I really don’t care what that person has to say about anything including their opinion on a Japanese cartoon aimed at grade schoolers.

[ABED]

And there's that. If you think Covid is a hoax or Hitler was right, I really don't give a damn what your view on Dragon Ball or fandom is.

[Matches Malone]

If you think Hitler was right...

Of course there are exceptions like this, but generally speaking, your views on things outside of the topic at hand don't prevent me from having a discussion with you.

[Planetnamek]

If one's political views are something like "COVID is a hoax", "global warming is a myth" "9/11 was an inside job" or "Hitler was right", then its a pretty safe bet that whatever "viewpoints" that person has are complete bunk and not worth listening to and should in fact be completely ignored for one's own sanity and safety.

I completely disagree with these four viewpoints as well, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to listen to what someone has to say outside of politics. I don't know where you stand on every political issue, will I not listen to what you have to say if I find out you disagree with me on something politically ? of course not.

I find it disturbing that so many Star Wars fanboys are using Boyega as a battering ram to attack the new Star Wars films when in reality they just another excuse to go after the EVIL boogeyman that they are convinced is Kathleen Kennedy

The last 2 main star wars movies completely under performed at the box office, resulting in all future plans being put on hold for years. The anthology films have seemingly been killed off due to Solo completely flopping. Fan boys of any franchise don't have big enough numbers to make such an impact one way or another, so whatever SW did following Rogue One didn't sit well with the average moviegoer. I bring this up because they don't care about an actor's gender or skin color, nor do they know who Kennedy or any producer is.

Attacking "modern" DB fans just makes you come off as spoiled and entitled, looking down on DB fans for daring to like Super does not make you superior to them in any way, shape or form, it just makes you look horribly out of touch, this whole "Stop liking things I don't like!" attitude is horribly toxic in any fandom and needs to stop.

No one's telling you what to like or dislike, we're just pointing out that the community's standards have gone down since 2015. You can like Super as much as you want, but let's not act like it couldn't have been far better than it was. It'll help if people would stop spreading lies about Modern DB being no different from classic DB. The whole "you're just too old for DB if you don't like Super", "you're blinded by nostalgia", etc. is getting pretty old as well.

It sounds like you need to stop living inside your own bubble and assuming that your frankly misinformed views about these pieces of media are the only correct ones.

Misinformed ? Most of the issues pointed out about Super are factually true, confirmed by people who've worked on the show.

BTW GT got mixed reception when it came out.

I'm talking about within the last 10 years. GT has, generally speaking of course, been thrown under the bus. Super though ? although it also gets called out, it's nowhere near as much as GT, which is probably due to Toriyama's name being attached to it.

Wait just one damn minute, you're bitching about the new Star Wars films when you haven't even seen the old ones yet? What kind of logic is that?

I said in my reply to you that I wasn't a fan and am just commenting based on what I've been seeing over the years in articles and comment sections.

I will NEVER listen to anyone that thinks that LGBTQ folks are an "abomination" or someone that constantly spouts racist myths, I don't care what they have to say outside of politics, at that point I want nothing to do with those miserable excuses for human beings.

No the last two SW films did not "underperform" in the least, that's another tiresome myth trotted out by those alt-right nutjobs, those films made BILLIONS of dollars, that is an actual fact and nothing those knuckle-dragging morons say can change that.

Commenting on something solely based on what other people have said instead of ya know actually watching it for yourself generally makes you ill-informed to actually talk about it.

Super has animation issues for sure, but the people that worked on it didn't outright trash it and say it was terrible.

You are very much implying that DB fans are idiots if they like Super, yes it could've been better, but people liking it does not mean "standards from dropped", that's complete and utter crap. So yes I do very much believe you are horribly misinformed on a lot of things.

[Planetnamek]

This guy seems like one of these alt-right types that hates the fact that Star Trek and Star Wars are now not trying solely to appeal to straight white males. All those types of Youtubers do that smugness thing, this guy is barely any better then that hack Steven Crowder.

Not that it matters but I googled RetroBlasting's political views and found this. He talks about his mother being liberal and father more of a centrist while arguing the Confederate Flag is a symbol of oppression. I don't know if he goes into more detail about his political views but it makes sense not to since it's irrelevant to his channel. If people bring up politics, they usually get accused of some ulterior motive from a different side that doesn't address the criticism directly. You'll find people from across the world with widely opposing political views while still sharing the same opinions on a piece of entertainment so it's best not to make assumptions and leave politics out of it.

I find it disturbing that so many(mostly white if i'm being frank) Star Wars fanboys are using Boyega as a battering ram to attack the new Star Wars films when in reality they don't actually give a damn about Boyega or what he went through, they just another excuse to go after the EEEEEEEEEEVIL boogeyman that they are convinced is Kathleen Kennedy(which is TOTALLY not blatantly misogynist at all! )

Do you have to jump to racism or misogyny as the main reason why someone wouldn't like the SW sequels? No doubt there are those who are racist or misogynist but it's more of a vocal online minority. There have been many strong female and minority characters in classics of the genre with no complaints. If someone is willing to watch all the recent SW films, it's unlikely the race or gender of the main characters is their reason for not liking it.

I think it's more of general criticism towards the four R's (remakes, reboots, revivals, and requels) than anything that only applies to the new SW. Revisiting a franchise that already had a conclusion, a story that retreads old ground, bringing back old characters mostly for nostalgia and fan service, etc. A fan could have the same criticism for Jurassic World despite that having a white male lead. These complaints would still exist even if Rey was a male and Finn was white.

I'm not white by the way and I actually enjoyed Jurassic World and most of the recent SW films. I can still admit if nostalgia and fan service were a big reason why I enjoyed them and not that I felt they really added anything worthwhile or memorable to the franchise. You can enjoy something without necessarily thinking it's great or needing to justify why you enjoyed it. I think that's goes back to the main point of this thread. It's about people who dismiss criticism not that people who like it are wrong. For example, some people thought that a certain character's sacrifice (in case you haven't read it) in the DBS manga was undeserved and didn't have enough buildup. I think it's valid criticism but the scene worked for me although I'm not sure if it was because I thought it was good or because it was referencing another character's sacrifice. Either way I don't need to shut down their criticism to argue why I personally liked it.

I don't have to "jump" to anything, because the VAST majority of hate aimed at the sequels usually comes in the form of bigotry, just look at how those assholes drove Kelly Marie Tran off social media.

Those complaints wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if those characters were all white and male, claiming that they would be is demonstrably false.

[Matches Malone]

The last two SW films did not "underperform" in the least, that's another tiresome myth trotted out by those alt-right nutjobs.

EP8 made 700+ million less than than EP7, while EP9 made around 300 million less than EP8. Rogue 1 made over a billion, while Solo made less than 400 million. If your business is making less money every year (or whenever you calculate income), that means it's under performing. If these numbers aren't enough, although god knows why they wouldn't be, there's also the fact that Star Wars has gone from a yearly release schedule to taking 4 years off to reevaluate things. The "alt-right" simply don't have big enough numbers to impact things like this, if at all. There's clearly a disconnect between modern SW and the general movie going audience. You can like these movies all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that there's clearly something wrong with them. I love Man of Steel, but it unfortunately ended up in a similar situation to modern SW where people just didn't connect with it.

To bring things back to DB, it's doing great numbers, so people who aren't connecting to it are in the minority. Broly for example made more $$$ than both BOG and RF combined, despite being not much more than a retelling of 3 previous stories. The reason I and others say the fan base's standards have gone down is because the franchise isn't doing much in terms of innovation, yet somehow everyone's throwing $$$ at it and even calling for more. I give major credit to the star wars community for speaking with their wallets, as they're getting rewarded with the likes of the Mandalorian, which I've read nothing but great things about. You and others can enjoy modern DB all you want, just don't constantly tell others to stop complaining and instead just enjoy what they give us because it has DB and Toriyama's name on it.

I think it's worth mentioning that I don't dislike everything modern DB has done. The BOG movie is a masterpiece that I believe belongs in the original manga. Despite Broly's story shortcomings, its production is among the best I've ever seen. Black and Zamasu are great villains, and Omen is one of the best transformations in the entire franchise, second to only the original Ssj. Modern DB has shown time and again that it can not only be good in its own right, but also compared to the original, which is why its shortcomings are so annoying.