Unpopular DB opinions

[Skar]

Looking back on it now, the Boo arc really was the perfect end to DBZ. While stuff like Beerus/Whis and multiple universes now feels kinda natural, it really does make sense looking back for Boo to officially end Dragonball's canon run. Toriyama had a lot of fun with that saga (most of the Boo arc is actually a dark comedy), and it was a fitting conclusion to the series.

Technically the epilogue counts as part of the Buu saga and all of modern DB takes place before the last few chapters so it's still the end .

To me, that arc was a mess of bad pacing, it went on too long, & mood whiplash that goes off the rails once the main plot starts kicking in. A fitting end? Meh. I don't mind the ending, but the arc could've been better-written as a whole.

Toriyama did say he was burned out and struggling after the Freeza saga so that could've affected the pacing of the last two sagas. Buu saga took the longest to introduce the antagonist or even mention them so Gohan in high school and preparation for the tournament might've been Toriyama stalling to come up with ideas.

[ABED]

It's a parody of Super Sentai and it's Toriyama - of course it's supposed to be funny.

There are comedic elements to it, but it's not all one big joke. Great Saiyaman is a plot development for Gohan. His adventures are played straight.

And for the love of Dende, are we really back to the ridiculous discussion about Sharpner and Erasa? Even if Gohan stays the lead, those two nothings aren't getting development.

Who can really say? Would Gohan really have just dropped out of high school? If not, Sharpner and Erasa won't going nowhere. The possibilities were endless. For one, we see after the battle with Boo that Gohan has returned to crimefighting with Videl by his side. Maybe with a couple more partners he forms a Great Saiyaman squad of some sort. Either way, clearly Gohan had returned to his life in Satan City.

Gohan plays it straight but it's a joke. What leads you to think any of that is played straight?

The possibilities aren't limitless. They are two nobodies. And them becoming members of some crimefighting squad is boring. Gohan doesn't need the help. He's friggin' Son Gohan. Taking down criminals is nothing to him.

[Psajdak]

Dragon Ball: Brotherhood should happen.

[precita]

At the time the opening was made Toei had no idea the manga would end with the Boo saga. I guess they assumed Gohan would go back to High School after the Boo arc ended and the show would continue from there.

Looking back on it now, the Boo arc really was the perfect end to DBZ. While stuff like Beerus/Whis and multiple universes now feels kinda natural, it really does make sense looking back for Boo to officially end Dragonball's canon run. Toriyama had a lot of fun with that saga (most of the Boo arc is actually a dark comedy), and it was a fitting conclusion to the series.

To me, that arc was a mess of bad pacing, it went on too long, & mood whiplash that goes off the rails once the main plot starts kicking in. A fitting end? Meh. I don't mind the ending, but the arc could've been better-written as a whole.

The entire Boo saga is a dark comedy. While I can understand why people wanted Gohan to finish off Boo, I quite like Vegito and the final fight on the Kai planet. It was the first time Goku and Vegeta teamed up side by side in a fight, Mr. Satan continued to prove himself to be a hero and collecting energy from everyone on Earth to defeat Kid Boo was a fitting end.

Boo killing everyone on Earth, turning people to chocolate/candy, the human extinction act, killing all of Goku's friends on the lookout, (pretty dark when you remember Maron died too when she was only 3 years old), Boo destroying the Earth (this was the first time Goku and co. failed at saving the Earth), and all the characters completing their character arcs was perfect. It still is the most fitting ending DBZ ever had.

While I actually enjoy Super, the Boo arc will probably always be remembered as the "real" conclusion of Dragonball over GT, Super or anything else.

[FortuneSSJ]

Have Toriyama on board for new DB stories can be a good thing, but also a double-edged sword.

[ABED]

Have Toriyama on board for new DB stories can be a good thing, but also a double-edged sword.

How is it a double edged sword?

[FortuneSSJ]

Have Toriyama on board for new DB stories can be a good thing, but also a double-edged sword.

How is it a double edged sword?

It's a good thing that he keeps Toei in check from doing crazier things, but at the same time he has bad decisions too. Some examples are ROF plot, in Champa arc two fighters from U7 team, Buu and Monaka, are used solely for gags and Jiren's boring personality.

[ABED]

Have Toriyama on board for new DB stories can be a good thing, but also a double-edged sword.

How is it a double edged sword?

It's a good thing that he keeps Toei in check from doing crazier things, but at the same time he has bad decisions too. Some examples are ROF plot, in Champa arc two fighters from U7 team, Buu and Monaka, are used solely for gags and Jiren's boring personality.

No writer bats 1000

Monaka is a hilarious gag character and I like the Champa arc.

[WittyUsername]

I think Toriyama’s past his prime. He’s made some weird additions/revisions to the story that I don’t care for, and he seems to just go along with whatever fanservicey ideas or suggestions he’s met with.

[precita]

What kinda baffles me is why Toriyama lost all interest in doing anything with Gohan, Trunks and Goten. Like at all. Trunks/Goten do nothing in Super and Gohan only gets a minor role in Movie 15 and the TOP.

[MyVisionity]

I think it's because he realized that he had already gone as far as he could with those characters and that there was no point in continuing. Gohan's story was done and Goten and Trunks never had a story to begin with, they were minor players.

[emi_b7]

Speaking of Sharpner and Erasa, I will always find it amusing that Toei apparently assumed they would be important enough to include in the group shot at the end of the opening. I’m not even sure why they would’ve thought that. I don’t blame them for promoting Gohan as the new main character, since that was what Toriyama promised to do before he changed his mind, but Sharpner and Erasa?

The anime was pretty close to the manga at that time. When the opening debuted the Trunks-Mr Satan fight had just finished and the adults tournament was about to start in the manga. I would assume they spent a couple of months making the opening so that means that when they started working on it the manga was almost entirely Gohan-Videl focused with Sharpner and Erasa (and Goten) being the main supporting cast in most chapters, I don't blame Toei for thinking they'd be around more than they ended up being. It does look funny watching the opening knowing they banish from the series after a few episodes though.

Side note, it's crazy to me that the anime was only ~16 chapters behind the manga. As a comparison, One Piece is ~45 chapters behind.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Dragon Ball: Brotherhood should happen.

I agree. Once it has an orchestral score and tells the story from Pilaf to Buu I'm all for it.

[Xeogran]

Dragon Ball: Brotherhood should happen.

Raditz is a very irrelevant character so doubtful

[Skar]

I think Toriyama’s past his prime. He’s made some weird additions/revisions to the story that I don’t care for, and he seems to just go along with whatever fanservicey ideas or suggestions he’s met with.

Would this be an unpopular opinion? Is there any author not past their prime by that age? Most authors would've retired by then or greatly slowed down and take longer between releases.

[JewyB]

I mean, Toriyama is more an editor than a writer now, and i can see him taking a backseat approach with how burnt out he got from editor involvement. I think Tori just needs to be a bit more aggressive in his editing approach and not be afraid to tell Toyo no.

Tori's best work arguably came from when he wasn't surrounded by yes men.

[WittyUsername]

I think Toriyama’s past his prime. He’s made some weird additions/revisions to the story that I don’t care for, and he seems to just go along with whatever fanservicey ideas or suggestions he’s met with.

Would this be an unpopular opinion? Is there any author not past their prime by that age? Most authors would've retired by then or greatly slowed down and take longer between releases.

I wasn’t really saying that as an unpopular opinion. It was in response to the conversation that FortuneSSJ and ABED were having.

[Skar]

I mean, Toriyama is more an editor than a writer now, and i can see him taking a backseat approach with how burnt out he got from editor involvement. I think Tori just needs to be a bit more aggressive in his editing approach and not be afraid to tell Toyo no.

Tori's best work arguably came from when he wasn't surrounded by yes men.

I think he would still count as more of a writer. He wrote three screenplays and three outlines. I agree he's burned out since all his work in modern DB might be less than the time spent on one of the original arcs. What kind of editing has he done though? I know he checks the manga each month and occasionally redrawn some panels but that might be it.

I wasn’t really saying that as an unpopular opinion. It was in response to the conversation that FortuneSSJ and ABED were having.

Oh my bad .

[Hellspawn28]

I don't find Caulifla and Kale to be hot or sexy at all.

[Matches Malone]

What kinda baffles me is why Toriyama lost all interest in doing anything with Gohan, Trunks and Goten.

Toriyama never intended the story to come back 2 decades later, he had specific roles for them that he achieved in the original manga. That's the problem with stories continuing beyond their initial end point, there's just not that many places to take the characters once their arcs are completed.

Goten and Trunks never had a story, they were minor players.

They played a major role against Buu, but that's how they were designed, to only be major in one arc. Toriyama went into the Buu arc with the intention of it being the end of DB, so everything was written with that in mind.

I think Toriyama’s past his prime.

The issue isn't just Toriyama, but DB as a whole. How many more places can you take a story that has already covered 500+ episodes, 17 movies, & 3 TV specials ? You can get away with a few more stories here and there, like BOG which brought something genuinely new to the table, but not what they're doing now trying to continue it indefinitely. Modern DB is a great example of why stories should be allowed to end and remain so.