Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[shadd21]

Does anyone else feel Goku has gotten a little too overpowered with MUI?

[Hugo Boss]

Does anyone else feel Goku has gotten a little too overpowered with MUI?

If you see the spoilers of chapter #66, you will figure out that there are some characters that feel even more overpowered.

[ekrolo2]

Does anyone else feel Goku has gotten a little too overpowered with MUI?

If you see the spoilers of chapter #66, you will figure out that there are some characters that feel even more overpowered.

Did they really retcon Beerus > UI?

[GodVegetto91]

Does anyone else feel Goku has gotten a little too overpowered with MUI?

If you see the spoilers of chapter #66, you will figure out that there are some characters that feel even more overpowered.

Did they really retcon Beerus > UI?

Beerus was never weaker than him. Fans just assumed that, using their own headcanon. That’s all. Nowhere has it ever been officially stated that MUI Goku surpasses Beerus..

[shadd21]

If you see the spoilers of chapter #66, you will figure out that there are some characters that feel even more overpowered.

Did they really retcon Beerus > UI?

Beerus was never weaker than him. Fans just assumed that, using their own headcanon. That’s all. Nowhere has it ever been officially stated that MUI Goku surpasses Beerus..

At the same time, you can’t really argue the opposite ether without dipping into headcanon.

[Thani]

Did they really retcon Beerus > UI?

Beerus was never weaker than him. Fans just assumed that, using their own headcanon. That’s all. Nowhere has it ever been officially stated that MUI Goku surpasses Beerus..

At the same time, you can’t really argue the opposite ether without dipping into headcanon.

Well it has never been officially stated that Beerus is the strongest God of Destruction by a large margin, in fact it has been implied multiple times that they're all on the same page power-wise, with a negligible difference. Which makes him "always stronger" than UI Goku also impossible since he's already on the level of a GoD by sheer fact that he matched (and bested) someone also on that level, aka Jiren. So at the bare minimum UI Goku is equal to him.

Also, wouldn't that fact make Moro-73 actually weaker than a God of Destruction? And by extension, weaker than Broly and Jiren? Since he was dismantled by UI Goku and all.

[Triggered Vegeta]

Beerus was never weaker than him. Fans just assumed that, using their own headcanon. That’s all. Nowhere has it ever been officially stated that MUI Goku surpasses Beerus..

At the same time, you can’t really argue the opposite ether without dipping into headcanon.

Well it has never been officially stated that Beerus is the strongest God of Destruction by a large margin, in fact it has been implied multiple times that they're all on the same page power-wise, with a negligible difference. Which makes him "always stronger" than UI Goku also impossible since he's already on the level of a GoD by sheer fact that he matched (and bested) someone also on that level, aka Jiren. So at the bare minimum UI Goku is equal to him.

Also, wouldn't that fact make Moro-73 actually weaker than a God of Destruction? And by extension, weaker than Broly and Jiren? Since he was dismantled by UI Goku and all.

Idk about Broly due to him being a rival to Beerus. Jiren(Manga) for sure is weaker than Moro tho. Jiren needed to get serious against a much weaker UI Omen... While Prime Moro was already above a much stronger version of the form.... Then we see a casual Moro(7-3) oneshot Omen Goku.

[Thani]

At the same time, you can’t really argue the opposite ether without dipping into headcanon.

Well it has never been officially stated that Beerus is the strongest God of Destruction by a large margin, in fact it has been implied multiple times that they're all on the same page power-wise, with a negligible difference. Which makes him "always stronger" than UI Goku also impossible since he's already on the level of a GoD by sheer fact that he matched (and bested) someone also on that level, aka Jiren. So at the bare minimum UI Goku is equal to him.

Also, wouldn't that fact make Moro-73 actually weaker than a God of Destruction? And by extension, weaker than Broly and Jiren? Since he was dismantled by UI Goku and all.

Idk about Broly due to him being a rival to Beerus. Jiren(Manga) for sure is weaker than Moro tho. Jiren needed to get serious against a much weaker UI Omen... While Prime Moro was already above a much stronger version of the form.... Then we see a casual Moro(7-3) oneshot Omen Goku.

Yes, I know that. Which doesn't make much sense since Jiren actually defeated UI Goku in the manga, so his full power can't be comparable to UI Sign.

But anyway, I know Moro is the stronger of the three enemies. What I'm saying is that for him to be stronger than them, he must be stronger than the Gods of Destruction, Beerus included. That's because Jiren is on that level, and so was ToP UI Goku, who was smacking him around at first. And the manga went out of it's way to imply that the GoD's are roughly on par with one another.

So either Moro (and UI Goku now) are stronger than the GoDs... Or they're not. We know UI Goku now is, at the very minimum, as strong as he was in the ToP, who has to be on the GoD level for him to face Jiren, whos is explicitly stronger than a GoD, power level-wise, in this case Vermoud. And he dismantled Moro-73 with ease. So for Moro to be stronger than Jiren, UI Goku now must be so much stronger that he can do the same to Jiren, Vermoud, and, by extension, every single GoD right now.

For Beerus to still be stronger, then either UI Goku and Jiren (and Moro) never were as strong or stronger than Gods of Destruction in general (but Jiren is stronger than Vermoud, which makes this an inconsistency) or Beerus is leagues ahead of his fellow gods (in which case, how did he get so hurt during the Battle Royale? Another inconsistency).

[Triggered Vegeta]

Thani, I do believe this version of Goku would defeat his former Top self with ease. Jiren is above his God... Belmod can damage other God's so the gap isn't astronomical like you said. It could be that Jiren is not that much stronger than his God, so Goku at that point was on that level, but not to the point where he could replicate what Beerus did.

Now we have Goku 3 shot Moro(7-3) which is above Jiren. So yeah, if Goku(Current) was in that exhibition... He'd be catching bodies left and right. His physical stats are enough to demolish Jiren let alone Belmod.

Just because Moro got bodied, doesn't mean Jiren is above... Just that Goku has improved a lot since training with Merus. My head cannon to why Beerus is so relaxed now around UI Goku is that he has the Complete UI now or is training off screen. I'm not so sure about that until proven.

Once UI ran out for Beerus, it was a wrap. He could be stronger than most of them, but not to the point where he'd cripple them with his blows alone.

There was a scene where I do believe had his attack landed... I think he would've took them all out with that ki attack. Maybe the current Beerus is a new animal compared to what he showed prior.

[ekrolo2]

If you see the spoilers of chapter #66, you will figure out that there are some characters that feel even more overpowered.

Did they really retcon Beerus > UI?

Beerus was never weaker than him. Fans just assumed that, using their own headcanon. That’s all. Nowhere has it ever been officially stated that MUI Goku surpasses Beerus..

Someone didn't watch 110 then.

[Hugo Boss]

The thing is that Beerus’ rank was never confirmed. At least until chapter #65, there were some implications that Jiren, Broly and Moro were antagonists that surpassed him, with Moro coming on top by Goku’s admission. Chapter #66 spoilers though hint at Beerus actually being stronger than Moro. Again, no confirmation so far. In resume, the fanbase is divided. Just some food for thought.

[Thani]

There was a scene where I do believe had his attack landed... I think he would've took them all out with that ki attack. Maybe the current Beerus is a new animal compared to what he showed prior.

Indeed, Goku wondered if they all died after that blast, here's the page:

Spoiler:

.
I think it's telling that Whis was seemingly not worried about them being okay, and Sidra completely negated Beerus' attack with his barrier. An attack, mind you, that prompted Geene to thank Sidra for "saving them all" and made Goku comment that "Beerus' isn't holding anything back", so it was quite powerful.

[GodVegetto91]

Did they really retcon Beerus > UI?

Beerus was never weaker than him. Fans just assumed that, using their own headcanon. That’s all. Nowhere has it ever been officially stated that MUI Goku surpasses Beerus..

Someone didn't watch 110 then.

I did.. Couldn’t find it.. Perhaps you need to watch it again.

[Triggered Vegeta]

There was a scene where I do believe had his attack landed... I think he would've took them all out with that ki attack. Maybe the current Beerus is a new animal compared to what he showed prior.

Indeed, Goku wondered if they all died after that blast, here's the page:

Spoiler:

.
I think it's telling that Whis was seemingly not worried about them being okay, and Sidra completely negated Beerus' attack with his barrier. An attack, mind you, that prompted Geene to thank Sidra for "saving them all" and made Goku comment that "Beerus' isn't holding anything back", so it was quite powerful.

Yep, that one. They're lucky Sidra was there to help. Perhaps like with any of the cast besides the androids, they all have a pool of energy that will eventually deplete... Since these battles are at such a high level and so many at that. Maybe that's why Beerus took damage a looked so tired. Taking on so many God's is no easy task, eventually they'll run out of gas and be susceptible to damage later on.

[RobertDaDon]

Hasn't it already been confirmed that Black arc Vegito = Beerus?

Fans really need to stop making Beerus into a moving goalposts. NOWHERE was it ever stated nor implied that Beerus > every mortal fighter when the opposite has been stated and shown numerous times. Walking Beerus does nothing to aid the story and it just contributes to Super's stagnant nature.

[FishermanJohnWest]

Subtext: he is talking about his arch-enemies, like Jiren or Hit. His teachers are on another level.

Problem is he is saying he never came across anyone, meaning it who Goku meet in general, not his previous foes.

You might as well think that Goku said Moro is tougher than Grand Priest if you want to be pedantic about it. But that’s not really what he is implying.

Recent spoilers shows he is aware of Merus and his strength. It's highly likely he ain't talking about power now

[ekrolo2]

Beerus was never weaker than him. Fans just assumed that, using their own headcanon. That’s all. Nowhere has it ever been officially stated that MUI Goku surpasses Beerus..

Someone didn't watch 110 then.

I did.. Couldn’t find it.. Perhaps you need to watch it again.

Toyo can dick around the powers however he likes, but the anime makes it pretty clear: Jiren eats Hakaishin for breakfast and that's before even going full power and breaking his limits.

[Hugo Boss]

Recent spoilers shows he is aware of Merus and his strength. It's highly likely he ain't talking about power now

How is Moro tougher than Merus?

[GodVegetto91]

Someone didn't watch 110 then.

I did.. Couldn’t find it.. Perhaps you need to watch it again.

Toyo can dick around the powers however he likes, but the anime makes it pretty clear: Jiren eats Hakaishin for breakfast and that's before even going full power and breaking his limits.

That doesn’t prove anything.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I said it before, but I'll say it again: we need a concrete statement or feat that clearly and obviously makes clear where Beerus stands compared to all of these latest opponents.

The "maybes" and "perhaps" and general non-committal stuff is getting old. I just want the writers/authors/creators to come out and lay it out, plain as day.

Right now, people can make the argument for either side of the debate, and they'd be equally right albeit the pro-Beerus side tends to get a little less objective and use more rhetoric by comparison.