"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

Yeah ! Worst case scenario is Zeno pulling a "now we have more universe si let's make an even bigger ToP"

I expect the next tournament to be between a team that includes fighters from the 8 universes that took part in the TOP against the 4 universes we haven't seen yet. We could get a team of Goku, Vegeta, Hit, Toppo, Jiren, etc...

[Mister_Popo]

Some crazy stuff going on in this chapter.
If they'll animate Earth Moro and this battle one day, there more than probably will be some CGI-enhancement involved.
I guess it's possible to animate in full 2D, but it's pretty difficult and i doubt it will be done completely that way.
The recent trend within TOEI starts to shift towards hybrid (fe DQ) anyways.

[Block88]

Man thank god this shut over can we actually get an interesting villain that won’t end up being a bore

[Jinto]

I'm glad Vegeta's spirit fission technique was not a waste, I really hope he uses it more in the future so it won't become a throw away one time technique.
I'm also hoping for Goku to somehow integrate IT into MUI since MUI seems to be a " spontaneous focus state" and IT biggest weakness is the time needed to focus.

[Xeogran]

It's strange but I somehow get the feeling that DBS may not continue past EoZ? This chapter already feels like the perfect climax, and what we're getting next is presumably a finisher with top strongest characters being involved.

Feels like the "Super" brand is tied to the post-Buu pre-EoZ period.

[Mister_Popo]

It's strange but I somehow get the feeling that DBS may not continue past EoZ? This chapter already feels like the perfect climax, and what we're getting next is presumably a finisher with top strongest characters being involved.

Feels like the "Super" brand is tied to the post-Buu pre-EoZ period.

Toyotaro and Toriyama might also be teasing him with a reason in order to make further use of him later (character arc after EOZ?).

[Matches Malone]

I somehow get the feeling that DBS may not continue past EoZ?

I thought that as well, but after seeing how important of a role Uub played in taking down Moro, I think they're now laying the groundwork for post EOZ stories with Uub.

[Thani]

It's strange but I somehow get the feeling that DBS may not continue past EoZ? This chapter already feels like the perfect climax, and what we're getting next is presumably a finisher with top strongest characters being involved.

Feels like the "Super" brand is tied to the post-Buu pre-EoZ period.

Idk, as far as final villains go, Moro to me felt pretty... meh? Sure the ending is climatic, but still, if I'm being honest, I thought the ToP itself served better as an ending to the "Super" phase.

[SupremeKai25]

It's strange but I somehow get the feeling that DBS may not continue past EoZ? This chapter already feels like the perfect climax, and what we're getting next is presumably a finisher with top strongest characters being involved.

Feels like the "Super" brand is tied to the post-Buu pre-EoZ period.

Idk, as far as final villains go, Moro to me felt pretty... meh? Sure the ending is climatic, but still, if I'm being honest, I thought the ToP itself served better as an ending to the "Super" phase.

Moro is the typical Dragon Ball villain. Trash motivations, non-existent backstory, no philosophy or ulterior ideal at all. He doesn't even have an entertaining personality like Frieza and Cell.

That's why Hearts should be canonized and become the final villain of Super. He has an actual reason for being "evil", he has compelling motivations, his philosophy is that no one, mortal or God, should have the power to erase all of existence in seconds.

Or just bring back fucking Zamasu. If these writers can't come up with new, complex, three-dimensional villains, they can just recycle him. Unsurprisingly, I won't object to that.

[Xeogran]

I thought that as well, but after seeing how important of a role Uub played in taking down Moro, I think they're now laying the groundwork for post EOZ stories with Uub.

I think it's more like tying loose ends and answering people's question as to why Goku thinks of Uub as an important student, because Z never really got into detail with it.

What we may get next are perhaps Character Gaidens, a separate short stories for some of the new gen characters? Many popular shonen are doing this thing recently.

[Matches Malone]

What we may get next are perhaps Character Gaidens, a separate short stories for some of the new gen characters? Many popular shonen are doing this thing recently.

We're definitely getting major arcs following Moro, as there are too many open plots yet to be resolved, such as Freeza being alive and up to no good.

[Ziegander]

I thought that as well, but after seeing how important of a role Uub played in taking down Moro, I think they're now laying the groundwork for post EOZ stories with Uub.

I think it's more like tying loose ends and answering people's question as to why Goku thinks of Uub as an important student, because Z never really got into detail with it.

What we may get next are perhaps Character Gaidens, a separate short stories for some of the new gen characters? Many popular shonen are doing this thing recently.

IIRC wasn't there some noise about the dragon room floating the idea of a separate Gohan and Piccolo manga?

[Jinto]

Complaining about poor motivation for villain is a really invalid criticism in a world like Dragon ball.
As nothing can really be portrayed in a bad light (apart from the dragon ball...sometimes...that one time)

It's all about consistency with the worldbuilding and DB excel in it.
They tried with Jiren and Zamasu but...Ugh
DB is all about the lightness, black and white, simplicity.

[Matches Malone]

IIRC wasn't there some noise about the dragon room floating the idea of a separate Gohan and Piccolo manga?

If I remember correctly, they said they wanted to use both of them more, but it was Toriyama's decision in the end.

[SupremeKai25]

Complaining about poor motivation for villain is a really invalid criticism in a world like Dragon ball.
As nothing can really be portrayed in a bad light (apart from the dragon ball...sometimes...that one time)

It's all about consistency with the worldbuilding and DB excel in it.
They tried with Jiren and Zamasu but...Ugh
DB is all about the lightness, black and white, simplicity.

Yes, now can this franchise evolve so that MAIN villains can have deeper motivations than just "Hello, I am an evil goat, all I want is to eat people because I am evil, come defeat me heroes as I am clearly an evil monster"?

[DiscountDabi]

It seems like everyone that has been a part of this arc has a role to play. Vegeta used forced spirit fission, Piccolo came up with the idea, It was Jaco’s idea to get the Grande Supreme Kai’s help, The Grand Supreme Kai found Uub and helped him send his power.

[Jinto]

Complaining about poor motivation for villain is a really invalid criticism in a world like Dragon ball.
As nothing can really be portrayed in a bad light (apart from the dragon ball...sometimes...that one time)

It's all about consistency with the worldbuilding and DB excel in it.
They tried with Jiren and Zamasu but...Ugh
DB is all about the lightness, black and white, simplicity.

Yes, now can this franchise evolve so that MAIN villains can have deeper motivations than just "Hello, I am an evil goat, all I want is to eat people because I am evil, come defeat me heroes as I am clearly an evil monster"?

That's the problem, "deeper motivation", unless the writer (Toyotaro or Toriyama) pulls a 180° and changes how he writes dragon ball then "deeper motivation" will be a dream.

It's not the execution that made Jiren or Zamasu "flop", it's that there was truly nothing to really complain about in DB universe so their "motivation" were reduced to obnoxious rant.
Hence why Zamasu's "ningen" was reduced to a meme and yet I remember that he made multiple good point about human condition and how he didn't want to destroy nature but just the sentient life form.

Or Jiren, with his takes on the importance of power over everything and how deeply traumatized he was by his master's death. It got reduced to some crybaby rant by the community.

[SupremeKai25]

Complaining about poor motivation for villain is a really invalid criticism in a world like Dragon ball.
As nothing can really be portrayed in a bad light (apart from the dragon ball...sometimes...that one time)

It's all about consistency with the worldbuilding and DB excel in it.
They tried with Jiren and Zamasu but...Ugh
DB is all about the lightness, black and white, simplicity.

Yes, now can this franchise evolve so that MAIN villains can have deeper motivations than just "Hello, I am an evil goat, all I want is to eat people because I am evil, come defeat me heroes as I am clearly an evil monster"?

That's the problem, "deeper motivation", unless the writer (Toyotaro or Toriyama) pulls a 180° and changes how he writes dragon ball then "deeper motivation" will be a dream.

It's not the execution that made Jiren or Zamasu "flop", it's that there was truly nothing to really complain about in DB universe so their "motivation" were reduced to obnoxious rant.
Hence why Zamasu's "ningen" was reduced to a meme and yet I remember that he made multiple good point about human condition and how he didn't want to destroy nature but just the sentient life form.

Or Jiren, with his takes on the importance of power over everything and how deeply traumatized he was by his master's death. It got reduced to some crybaby rant by the community.

I don't see how Zamasu flopped. Jiren, I can see, but not Zamasu. In fact, I watched a video yesterday about the most popular anime villains (i.e. most searched on google) from 2004 to 2020, and Goku Black has consistently been one of the most popular anime villains by far since 2016. He as a character very clearly generated a lot of interest and internet traffic around Dragon Ball. A "flop" villain doesn't do that. It wouldn't even surprise me if Zamasu or Goku Black were brought back for a future movie, as the writers are driven by popularity. If they see that a character is very popular, they will exploit that popularity. I'll link the video if you want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWzpRrA7NAY

The fact that Black, who was introduced only 4 years ago (and his last appearance was also 4 years ago), has as many (if not more) google searches as Frieza and Cell (who have been around for DECADES) is crazy, isn't it?

If people want to reduce Zamasu to a meme character, that's their problem. With Zamasu and Hearts, the writers showed that they want more ambitious villains, that they want villains we can relate to, or anyway we can understand why they are committing villainous acts. In good storytelling, the villain is merely the hero of their own story.

This Moro guy would be more interesting if we knew... ANYTHING about him, really. Why does he have the ability to eat planets? Why did he start eating planets? Is that ability unique to him or to his species as a whole? In fact, why aren't there any other goat people like him? Also, why does he despise life so much? Did something happen to him when he was young that made him hate the creations of the Gods?

Let me remind you that he is the MAIN VILLAIN of the arc. The fact that the main villain has such generic motivations and non-existent background is serious.

[AndLad92]

Where is everyone reading the chapter, before it's officially released?

[Magnificent Ponta]

Where is everyone reading the chapter?

Leaked pages and plot summaries circulating on Twitter, I believe. Pretty sure no-one here has actually read the whole thing yet.