"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

The Universal Conflict arc deserves more than a promotional videogame anime with 10-minutes long episodes. This is all I'm going to say.

I completely agree, and this goes for Heroes' other arcs as well. Obviously Toriyama would have to change a lot, but the basic ideas are great.

[Kinokima]

Heroes stories are terrible. I'm happy that nonsense is away from the main series

LOL thank you I am glad I am not the only one. Heroes may have some interesting concepts but when you get down to the nitty gritty the storytelling is extremely lacking. It’s just an excuse to get a bunch of random characters, powerups and fusions together

I am enjoying the Heroes cards on Dokkan right now. But that’s kind of how I enjoy Heroes in games.

[DSB]

Nah even with context i cant accept Giant Goku.

Vegeta getting Spirit bomb and IT in the same arc is stupid.

What a waste of story. Started so well.


At least will look tremendous when animated.

[Alruneia]

Now that the chapter is fully translated and released...
...yeah, I don't feel like Goku's giant avatar thing was justified at all. I don't see a reason why Uub's energy should make that happen to Goku. It's not like Vegeta made that intentionally happen or anything, he's just as surprised as everybody else. I don't get the logic on this one.
The silver lining of this plot point is that not only does Uub appear again, he's actually the key to victory. It confirms a theory from the beginning of the arc (or, more accurately, it was something that was implied but not directly stated), which was that Uub inherited the Grand Supreme Kai's powers. We can probably look at the size and strength of the energy ball he sent as a sign of his potential, too. The people who have been wondering why Goku would be interested in training Uub after the events of Super no longer have to worry about that.
This ending is actually kinda neat, with Goku as the fighter, Vegeta as the support (kind of at least), Piccolo as the ideas guy, and everybody else pitching in with their energy, with Jaco bringing back the Grand Supreme Kai for the same purpose. I do think that everybody donating energy is a bit of a Toei movie move, but I guess it's not a bad thing just because of that. Everybody helps out, and it's nice (though maybe a little fanservice-y). It's an overall good conclusion to the fight. I'm looking forward to seeing the arc conclude in its entirety next month and seeing what comes next.

[DiscountDabi]

Nah even with context i cant accept Giant Goku.

Why?

Vegeta getting Spirit bomb and IT in the same arc is stupid.

Its not a spirit bomb and he said he probably couldn’t pull off Instantaneous Movement

[Grimlock]

Heroes and retellings go hand in hand.

Let us see, Dragon Ball Heroes has four sagas so far: Dark Demon Realm saga - not a retelling. Prison Planet saga - not a retelling. Universal Conflict - not a retelling. Universe Creation - not a retelling.

So, no, I don't think they go "hand in hand". Anyway.

[The Bastard.]

Heroes and retellings go hand in hand.

Let us see, Dragon Ball Heroes has four sagas so far: Dark Demon Realm saga - not a retelling. Prison Planet saga - not a retelling. Universal Conflict - not a retelling. Universe Creation - not a retelling.

So, no, I don't think they go "hand in hand". Anyway.

They are all just trash. That's the main thing binding all heroes arcs.

Seriously, seeing people complain about super and praise heroes is a joke, it's awful.

[The Undying]

Chapter's a bit too similar to the Boo arc's climax for my liking, beyond just the art this time - which is where I draw the line in terms of Super echoing prior material - but I'll let it slide because there's some good stuff in here, and I appreciate the angle with Oob being the one to participate in the same kind of event that resulted in Boo's demise. I've said it before, but self-referential writing can be done well so long as it's given a unique spin and supports the story's throughlines. With all this talk about Moro being an "evil Genki Dama" back when he was introduced, this seems about as acceptable an idea as any.

Speaking of throughlines, in addition to Magnificent Ponta's analysis, there's another element concerning Vegeta's "giving" and Goku's "receiving" throughout the arc: Vegeta, as mentioned, laments taking the lives of Namekians in his past and later gives back the lives that Moro stole, while Goku receives his final lesson in Ultra Instinct imparted through Merus's sacrifice; only here, those two threads unite when Goku directly receives Vegeta's (given) energy to take down a foe that forcefully took power from others, now lended to the protags by others. That's a pretty cool thematic apex to leave the battle on. Earlier, I would have thought it was Vegeta that was intended to have more purpose in fighting Moro than Goku, but Vegeta playing the role of primary support is arguably more in line with the arc's themes and the series as a whole.

It's great to see Piccolo get a real role this month instead of flaunting flashy techniques for the sake of it or spewing pointless exposition every few pages. Same goes for Jaco. I don't usually have many gripes with the manga's character writing, nor do I agree with other people's complaints on the topic, but I do think the supporting cast members were often handled poorly in this arc and it's nice when some of these characters are actually being used by the story rather than just showing them slapping around a bunch of no-names or getting slapped by Moro. Either make these guys relevant to important developments in the plot or just don't include them. I'm fine with either approach.

I have no strong feelings about Goku's avatar spirit mech thing. It's visually derivative as all hell, but I'd never criticize the series for pulling wacky stunts like that when you have Gotenks spitting out ghost clones in the Boo arc, Goku and Vegeta getting turned into micro-sized versions of themselves in the Boo arc, or... really anything else in the Boo arc, or any of the crazy shit that happens in early DB. Half the fun of Dragon Ball is that even at its most consistent, Toriyama never allows himself to be constrained by his own worldbuilding or whatever it is that ki/genki/magic should or shouldn't do. Toyotaro isn't quite on this level and probably cares more about those details than the original author, but I think he's well-intentioned. Again, though, there's no way it wasn't copied wholesale from every franchise to ever lean into this trope, which is unfortunate.

I also dislike the whole situation with Moro's weakness and how Whis just straight tells them what to do. Supporting characters helping main characters reach new milestones is one thing, but this is just following a script and adhering to spoonfed instructions provided by an omniscient plot device that barely had a role in the arc. That's a bad way of wrapping up a conflict that's clearly designed to carry some degree of tension, at least insofar as a midquel like Super is allowed to have tension. It worked for Resurrection 'F' because it didn't try to be overly high-stakes from the start, and because Whis played the role of mentor in that film, but it's wildly out of place in this instance. Goku also already observed Merus beforehand and thus could easily have reached such a conclusion on his own.

I've been pretty fair with this arc, but I feel more relieved than satisfied at seeing it finally come to a close. The pacing (not length, but pacing) has been an almost consistent issue from GPP's debut chapter all the way to the climax, with this chapter being one of the few to come across as reasonably paced. There doesn't seem to be much more to the finale than tying up loose ends, and possibly leading to the next story, so next month will mainly be my thoughts on the arc in general rather than the chapter specifically.

Also, that volume cover is dope!

[Galan007]

Anyone have an explanation as to what Goku's avatar construct was, exactly?

That's one thing I really didn't understand.

[Beiga]

Anyone have an explanation as to what Goku's avatar construct was, exactly?

That's one thing I really didn't understand.

It was cool.

yw

[Jiren The Alpha]

Heroes and retellings go hand in hand.

Let us see, Dragon Ball Heroes has four sagas so far: Dark Demon Realm saga - not a retelling. Prison Planet saga - not a retelling. Universal Conflict - not a retelling. Universe Creation - not a retelling.

So, no, I don't think they go "hand in hand". Anyway.

Not back in the old days, and these arcs have the same story struckter and villains coming back, there is nothing original about them.

[Jinto]

Great chapter !
A small inconsistencies : Tien says if Moro blow up then the super dragon ball will be gone to, but Moro exploding was only supposed to destroy the galaxy and the SDB are scattered throughout the universe.

Or is galaxy a mistranslation ?

[LoganForkHands73]

I thought that was pretty fantastic, not gonna lie. Stirring finale, beautiful artwork, surprisingly all the Chekhov Guns came together pretty well -- Daikaioshin, Merus's teachings, Ultra Instinct, Spirit Fission, the Z-Warriors contributing energy, Beerus & Whis... and even Uub, what the fecking heck! Don't get me wrong, it's been a horrendous slog of an arc in a lot of respects, but at least it's gone out on a high note.

Whis flat out telling Goku what to do was a bit blunt but I found it kinda amusing. "Goku, you know his weakness, just end this bullshit already, ffs". I like the gesture that Whis is still so ridiculously far beyond Goku that he can halt Moro's earth-fist with a single finger.

[Galan007]

I was also curious what Beerus would be in "trouble" for, if he stepped in against Moro? Isn't that, like, the exact kind of thing he *should* be doing?

[Brettjr25]

So Oob has MASSIVE God energy huh. Not only does it validate EoZ by giving a reason for an Ultimate Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku to think of him as a possible rival after being trained but it makes me feel like Super may (...may) go beyond it.

Cool.

[Kinokima]

Considering how this ending could have gone I found it overall satisfying. I did find it a bit derivative but actually we could argue the entire arc was like that and certainly there were similar elements to the Namek, Cell and Buu arc throughout. It probably was on purpose, I am not sure if it always worked.

I felt the last part of this arc with how long the Moro fight was extended was the worst part but this ending was probably the most satisfying for me. It may not have been the most original but it felt earned at least and I felt they tied in most of the loose ends of the arc. I enjoyed it way more than the TOP or Future Trunks endings that’s for sure.

Of course we have one more chapter left so hoping for no last second bad twist. Though as others have said I am guessing that will be involving Beerus and Whis and what happened to Merus. Who knows maybe my earlier idea of Merus not being erased but becoming mortal & staying with the Galactic Patrol will still happen. Or it could be some major consequences playing out too.

But yeah Ill take a relatively safe ending that ties everything together over a unpredictable ending full of bad twists


And I guess there were some surprises. No one exactly guessed how they would beat Moro from what I saw. They did a good job making it a group effort. I LOVED Vegeta supporting Goku and Piccolo had a nice albeit small role showing his intelligence as well. And we got that classic final Goku shot.

Also while I never really liked EOZ and find Uub sort of boring this was a really nice way to tie his character in at the end.

[Xeogran]

I was also curious what Beerus would be in "trouble" for, if he stepped in against Moro? Isn't that, like, the exact kind of thing he *should* be doing?

Maybe some of the GoDs would laugh him off for getting so soft to help mortals. Champa and Quitela probably.

[Trek405]

Decent chapter

I'm interested to see the repercussions beerus will face for merus' erasure. Considering the next arc has heen confirmed i don't think EoZ is coming up next.

I loved the art and moro going crazy from absorbing all that power. The ending was a bit too closely resembling the buu arc imagery but still satisfying. A goku thumbs up is always good.


One thing i didn't like was whis giving goku the key to victory. Goku saw merus destroy moros gems and should be capable enough to figure it out on his own. I also wasn't crazy about the Z fighters being there only to charge gokus batteries once again but it's better than nothing. l ultimately wasn't very satisfied with vegeta role either but at least his training didn't go totally to waste even if it was used in the most cliche way possible. Giant goku also did nothing for me either since it was purely for spectacle rather than anything else.

Can't wait to just move on from this arc at this point.

[SupremeKai25]

I was also curious what Beerus would be in "trouble" for, if he stepped in against Moro? Isn't that, like, the exact kind of thing he *should* be doing?

The various Destroyers are probably aware of Moro's existence, but they know him only as a senile, frail old creature. So it's quite pathetic that Beerus was so incompetent with his job that he not only let Moro regain his youth, but also power-up to the point that he neared the realm of the angels, and even made Merus (one of the Grand Priest's children) sacrifice himself. They'd laugh at Beerus and at the terrible security of U7.

[mute_proxy]

I was also curious what Beerus would be in "trouble" for, if he stepped in against Moro? Isn't that, like, the exact kind of thing he *should* be doing?

I don't think a GoD's purpose is to save people and planets from evil magicians. That sounds like interference in events