Thoughts on Moro's character?

[DevilKing99]

What's everybody thoughts on Moro's character now that his arc is over?

Mine is he was a very disappointing villain we know NOTHING about Moro at all and he was the main villain from 2018 to basically 2021.

He has no character at all besides being evil, the only character who he had any history was grand Supreme Kai, and that history was never explored at all. Merus is already back and Moro's goons were the definition of fodder none of them were remotely interesting besides 73's abilities.

[SupremeKai25]

He feels like an actual filler villain.

And No, that doesn't mean that his arc was filler, it means that he as a character felt like filler. He is similar to the old villains from the Z movies, like Lord Slug or Android 13. Completely generic and forgettable. This is for two reasons:

1) All of his actions are undone. Toyotaro even specified in the newest chapter that everything had returned back to normal in the universe. As for Merus,

Spoiler:

he isn't even dead anymore, he's just a ningen. I guess it could've gone much worse for him.

2) He had no connection whatsoever to the main characters. He's literally a nobody. No backstory, no compelling motivations, no personality, nothing. He has left no mark whatsoever on the main characters nor on the world around him.

By comparison, none of these things can be said for Zamasu. His actions were not undone, because an entire timeline was wiped out, and he did leave a mark on some characters. Gowasu is obviously mentally scarred by what happened, Future Trunks lost everything, Goku has to live with the grim thought that someone stole his body and butchered his entire family, and there are now two Zenos in the Present timeline.

7-3 seems to have been the real focus all along.

Regardless I'll reserve my final judgement for when I hear Moro's VA and ost. Good voice acting and soundtrack can vastly improve a character and their characterization.

[Yuji]

He was interesting conceptually as a unique magician with his own realm of abilities and powers, and I'm a fan of all his different designs (even the very polarizing Moro-73). I also appreciate his relation to the Kaioshin and Boo lore, and his trichotomy with Goku and Vegeta, making use once more of Super's thematic binary opposition between true strength and stolen power (we saw this before in the future Trunks arc). While not as satisfyingly thematically consistent as the Tournament of Power or even the Future Trunks arc, the through-line in his battles with Goku and Vegeta is still competently done. But I admit that would all be external variables to the character himself, who even among Dragon Ball's cartoon-ish villains, comes across as shallow. In the Super era, where morally gray antagonists have been the norm for the most part, Moro feels like an unfortunate and lackluster return to Dragon Ball's heydays, regrettably not only through the character but the arc itself. The character has a mysterious and intriguing introduction, but goes on to deteriorate into a largely forgettable amalgamation of Dragon Ball clichés. The final battle, especially when Goku activates (Mastered) Ultra Instinct, manages to reignite some of my interest in the character because the aforementioned themes are now put on explicit display as the juxtaposition between Goku and Moro's acquisitions of power becomes the central beat in the bout, but it isn't quite enough to redeem the villain in my eyes, largely because most of the interesting dialogue between the two comes out of Goku's mouth, whereas Moro is left spouting the same tired platitudes until he is no longer even consciously aware of reality (a fitting end and a point in favour of the arc's thematic cohesion, but nevertheless also a point that speaks about Moro's nature as a largely forgettable, throwaway villain).

Moro seems like half the character he was supposed to be.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I'll expand later in due course, but to put my feelings on Moro (relatively) briefly:

• Moro serves his purpose as a formidable obstacle to the heroes and as a competent bearer of the themes of the arc (Stealing, Earning, and Giving). Too much time in the arc, however, is spent showing us the also-ran nobodies in the Saganbo Bandit Brigade instead of keeping the focus on Moro and giving us additional factors to consider, but this may get a partial pay-off with OG73-I in the Granolah arc.
• Deliberately patterning him on Piccolo Daimao was, I think, a bit of a mistake - not least because Piccolo himself was not a particularly interesting character (the most compelling thing about him was his connection to Kami and the Dragon Balls, revealed after his death, and the dilemma it raised with his reincarnation - Moro doesn't have that advantage built into his concept), and the unique magical-predatory elements to Moro's own concept don't quite do enough to make up for this, for me.
• Fundamentally, I think his character is therefore a little bit too straightforward (I don't know that I would say 'flat', particularly when compared to other Dragon Ball villains, who are also not generally 'deep' or 'layered'). He shows up with an intention to predate on everything for the sake of it, and...sets about doing that for the rest of the arc, without hesitation or deviation (but quite a bit of repetition). While he also has a serpentine cunning to go with it in the various contingencies he contrives, I don't think some further, leavening twist or quirk would have gone amiss.
• I enjoy his design generally, particularly when he's an old, withered shaman-goat. It feels more 'characterful' than his rejuvenated-buff design. I don't mind seeing so many visual changes to him, though - in fact, I quite like it, as it serves as a nice counterpoint to the fact that inside, he doesn't change at all (which plays him off more naturally against Goku on the one hand, who likewise doesn't change, and Vegeta and Merus on the other, who both change fundamentally across the course of this arc).
• I don't really get the fan appetite for villains to engender "big consequences" in Dragon Ball, though - Moro's own 'mark' on the series can't be fully judged yet, as some of it may yet work itself out in the coming arc (though I'd've thought being the catalysing villain for Ultra Instinct was enough, frankly), but that the damage he does is undone might likewise be said of Buu, or Cell (or, indeed, Piccolo Daimao) - that's kind of the point of the Dragon Balls. I can't seriously count the fact that people aren't dead and sad and the Universe isn't any poorer for the adventure having happened as some sort of mark against Moro's character or role.

[Peach]

He's pretty one dimensional.

If there is an anime, I hope they take their time with it. Do a whole backstory where they dedicate tons of episodes to him.

[Grimlock]

Who's Moro?

That's probably what I'll ask within a few months . Well, for now, I just remember this character as being potentially very interesting at first glance. Eater of worlds? Damn, will we have our own Galactus/Unicron in Dragon Ball!? Would simply love that! But... Wait... Eh.... No?.... Not this time.

I think goat design weird, but I'll take it, it's somehow and somewhat different, acceptable. But of course they had to make him transform and lose his little uniqueness. Personality-wise - nonexistent. There's nothing for me to say about it, probably "generic" sums up everything.

Really, if Toei doesn't adapt his saga and promote the hell out of it, I'll most certainly forget this character even exist. Which is sad, obviously. Wouldn't want to have this feeling towards Dragon Ball and its characters, but since this modern series isn't even trying to come up with something good... There's no other way besides also not being willing to try to keep up with it too.

[Yuji]

[*] Deliberately patterning him on Piccolo Daimao was, I think, a bit of a mistake - not least because Piccolo himself was not a particularly interesting character (the most compelling thing about him was his connection to Kami and the Dragon Balls, revealed after his death, and the dilemma it raised with his reincarnation - Moro doesn't have that advantage built into his concept), and the unique magical-predatory elements to Moro's own concept don't quite do enough to make up for this, for me.

I think he was deliberately patterned on all of the major villains. The trope of the "released ancient evil" and his wish for youth clearly likens him to Daimao, but his voyage to Namek to make use of Porunga, aided by the ex-Freeza force member Cranberry, makes clear parallels to Freeza's arc. As many fans were wise to point out, Moro-73's introduction panel and the catalyst of eating an artificial human after stealing the energy of multiple innocents to produce a being capable of using the dragon team's techniques is very reminiscent of Cell. The final battle now with a Moro who can barely form coherent sentences against a Goku carrying all the hopes of his friends thematically exemplified by the pseudo-Genkidama that Vegeta has made this time parallels the Boo arc climax and the defeat of Pure Boo.

It is interesting that Moro was an amalgamation of the major villains of the original series, as it furthers Goku's arc as a dependable savior (I don't think Goku sparing Moro was an unintentional parallel, it simultaneously shows that Goku retains the same kind-hearted purity of before, but he also showcased keen clarity and acute awareness that Moro was truly beyond redemption; he wasn't being naive or innocent, but kind and simultaneously selfish; unlike what some fans gathered from the scene, it wasn't Goku repeating the same mistakes of his past, but rather showing that he has learned from them and he can take full responsibility for his own errors) and the presence of Oob brings things full circle (Goku's own selfishness in wishing to spare Pure Boo becomes the very key to saving the Earth in this arc, proving that Goku isn't mistaken in his wish to save opponents, an aspect we know is thematically significant from Merus' flashback of his talk with the Saiyan), but it doesn't do much to make the character of Moro himself very memorable.

[Magnificent Ponta]

I think he was deliberately patterned on all of the major villains. The trope of the "released ancient evil" and his wish for youth clearly likens him to Daimao, but his voyage to Namek to make use of Porunga, aided by the ex-Freeza force member Cranberry, makes clear parallels to Freeza's arc. As many fans were wise to point out, Moro-73's introduction panel and the catalyst of eating an artificial human after stealing the energy of multiple innocents to produce a being capable of using the dragon team's techniques is very reminiscent of Cell. The final battle now with a Moro who can barely form coherent sentences against a Goku carrying all the hopes of his friends thematically exemplified by the pseudo-Genkidama that Vegeta has made this time parallels the Boo arc climax and the defeat of Pure Boo.

I tend personally to regard these aspects as progressive plotting elements of the arc furthered by referencing 'moments', rather than being strict character elements of Moro himself; but then, I'm prejudicial towards the idea that Toyotarou prefers to reference 'moments' as such (I may be off-base in thinking this way, but it's how I see it, in any case). But I'm not averse to the idea that several plotting decisions of the arc relate to various 'original series' moments - One might argue that the Earth portion of the arc drives forward in part on Dragon Ball's own moments, in chronological order, to resolve the arc in an encapsulating device:

• We receive a training delay which the Earth's heroes train to meet, while the main character (Goku/Vegeta) finishes up training and races back to meet as the only hope of Earth (Saiyan arc);
• The main character holds his own against an absurdly strong foe, only to find that the big bad has only used a fraction of his power and the main character's best isn't nearly good enough; it's all hopeless (Freeza arc);
• The villain achieves unbeatable power through 'absorption' of an artificial being (Cell arc);
• The victory is achieved by the gift of power in, as you say, a Genki Dama-esque technique and the final thumbs-up of victory (Buu arc);
• There remains someone of great power on Earth that seizes Goku's interest for the future (The End).

But arguably, at least some of the plotting elements you've mentioned are patterned just as closely on Piccolo Daimao:

• Cranberry may be a Freeza-force goon, but narratively he represents a pathetic former villain who has played a part in the escape of the Big Bad from incarceration, informs him of the Dragon Balls, and hopes to have his own desires fulfilled as well (which is an analogue of Pilaf with Piccolo Daimao);
• The thing that makes Moro renewed isn't 'absorption of OG73-I' as such, but the shade of Moro that exists within him, which allows him to be reborn even more powerful than he was (which is an inversion of Piccolo Daimao spitting out his own shade to be reborn as a more powerful version of himself - as is Moro's unique tendency, he ingests it to achieve the same);
• Even in the final part of the fight, the whole thing turns on Goku being able to land a decisive blow on the villain (and it deliberately calls back the resolution of the Piccolo Daimao fight, with Goku saying "Everything's riding on this fist of mine" in both moments) and it turning on whether Goku can penetrate through the villain's outstretched hands (he can with Piccolo; he can't with Moro) - and the end comes with a giant visual flourish of Goku's power (the Oozaru for the Piccolo Daimao fight, and his Divinely-Powered self for the Moro fight).

I still think that, however Toyotarou drafts and integrates other Dragon Ball plot moments to give further heft to the Moro arc (alongside things that are actually unique - it's not all derivative), fundamentally the things that Moro does and has done to him hew most closely to what Piccolo Daimao does and has done to him, which is in keeping with his most basic personal concepts.

[Cipher]

He gets the job done and has some characterizing moments as a snakey pragmatist early in the arc, when Cranberi is still in tow. He’s also dislikable enough that you want to see him get his comeuppance by the end, which, if anything, left me a bit disappointed by the fact that his mind goes before he does, so we don’t get to see him acknowledge his final defeat.

He’s a serviceable Dragon Ball villain who has the misfortune of following Super’s less traditional routes for antagonists, which leaves him feeling like he comes in a bit under par.

I don’t think any of the callbacks to previous villains, including Piccolo, are intentional, but rather the results of attempting to return to a traditional supervillain of earlier Dragon Ball bent and stumbling into similar tropes. If he most resembles Piccolo, it might be because of their similar behind-the-scenes purposes—created with the primary goal of introducing a no-questions supervillain into proceedings, separate from what’s come before in their respective series. Toyotaro has said, after all, that he wanted readers to feel Moro must be defeated with just one look at his design, akin to the original Piccolo. Both are introduced to be digestible big-bads first and unique characters second, and they certainly are that. Perhaps the similarity of intent winds up taking them similar places.

[Chuquita]

He feels like a villain from the old 90's Z movies. Moro's Lord Slug. He's Bojack. He's Android 13. If the Moro arc were a 50 minute movie he'd have done a competent yet mostly unmemorable (save the ending where he merges with the Earth and becomes a rock monster) job.

But the Moro arc didn't last 50 minutes.
It lasted two years, with very little in fun character interactions, fresh locales, or lasting repercussions to show for it imo.
What happened behind the scenes that forced Toyotaro's hand into a position where he had to do what felt like stalling after such a strong start to the Moro arc is what I want to know, because I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and theorize that he initially went into this arc not planning to make it last this long, but then something happened that left him in a pinch where he was forced to drag out what probably could've originally been a plot meant to last 1 year into twice its length. Maybe some higher ups didn't like the start of the arc and forced him to make changes to play it safe. Maybe whatever it was that derailed the Super anime from returning indirectly led to him being told to stretch things along until some sort of decision regarding the anime's future could be reached. I don't know; there's no way for me personally to know.

That should not excuse how boring Moro's personality is though.
It's the same problem I had with Jiren, but even more so because initially Moro was billed as a magic user and that set my hopes up high because I've wanted a magical villain for a long while now. I was thinking Moro would turn out to be like other reality-warping sci-fi antagonists like Q from Star Trek or Mister Mxyzptlk from Superman. I was expecting classic Dr. Slump-style mayhem mixed with some kind of cosmic horror show.
Moro has none of that.
He's straightforward with no sense of humor, no quirks about him, and ultimately we don't ever really get a backstory for his motivation and what drove him to why he committed the crimes that led to his imprisonment in the first place.

If they weren't going to go wild with what types of powers Moro had, then they should've billed him from the start as an energy-absorber and nothing more. He's King Piccolo with a better version of Androids 19 and 20's powers who ultimately ends up like a less-interesting Cell.
And maybe if he were animated a good voice actor could improve him, but not enough to make him entertaining or memorable, not unless Toei were to go in and change some of his dialogue.

They should've kept Cranberry alive longer; Moro needed someone to converse with. One of Toriyama's writing tricks is to introduce characters in pairs, right? Giving someone for Moro to verbally bounce off of for those two years would've helped. If not him, then they should've had more interaction between him and the Kaioshin that swapped out with Buu since he actually had history with Moro. Or if not that, then give Merus and Moro some personal history together to strengthen that connection.

Moro was initially disappointing, and over time he became tiring. I just wanted the arc to end. The bare bones of his story are not bad, but the format of a monthly 45pg a chapter manga that had to string what I see as a 90's Z movie plot along for a frustratingly oversized length of time ruined whatever urgency the arc and Moro the character could've had if it instead ran in a weekly format. It felt like when you have a homework assignment where you have to write say 12 single-typed pages for an essay, but only have enough material for maybe half of that so instead you find the most overly-wordy, obtuse way of making your point to hit that required number of pages.

I don't fully blame Toyotaro if the situation was indeed caused by something beyond his control, but I also don't fully exempt him because when faced with a sudden curve-ball like that (if my theory is anywhere close to what could've happened) a professional should still be able to find a way to salvage and reorganize their story to better suit their altered situation. I'm relieved Moro's finally over.

[GodVegetto91]

What's everybody thoughts on Moro's character now that his arc is over?

Mine is he was a very disappointing villain we know NOTHING about Moro at all and he was the main villain from 2018 to basically 2021.

He has no character at all besides being evil, the only character who he had any history was grand Supreme Kai, and that history was never explored at all. Merus is already back and Moro's goons were the definition of fodder none of them were remotely interesting besides 73's abilities.

I’m sure you haven’t seen steroid-induced Saganbo yet then...

[Magnificent Ponta]

I don’t think any of the callbacks to previous villains, including Piccolo, are intentional, but rather the results of attempting to return to a traditional supervillain of earlier Dragon Ball bent and stumbling into similar tropes.

...Really? None of them? That's quite a bold position.

I myself debated with The Undying and LoganForkHands73 over the extent to which Moro takes deliberate cues from elsewhere in Dragon Ball, as I agree that to a greater or lesser extent fans tend to 'specify' generic tropes and features as being attached to something in particular, even when it's not especially convincing (Cell is my particular bugbear here, as people look at Moro's face and then start contriving Cell-type connections where there aren't any, simply to sustain the slanted idea that he's a Cell rip-off).

But even agreeing with this basic contention, I'd baulk at the idea that Moro doesn't deliberately take anything from previous Dragon Ball.

[Cipher]

...Really? None of them? That's quite a bold position.

I see plenty of Cell and Piccolo connections. (The Piccolo similarities you've already pointed out, but there's also a portion of the arc around Volume 11 which mirrors the Cell arc structurally and in terms of its villain's moves, as Moro deliberately plots his course through the galaxy so as to avoid Galactic Patrol detection and ki-sensing, until he can siphon enough power to become stronger than the heroes).

There's no way it didn't cross Toyotaro's mind that beats such as sending a villain to Namek, having them reverse age, and receiving a Senzu from Goku would recall for fans previous moments. He hasn't been averse to such callbacks, as it's impossible to miss, for example, the one at the end of the Future Trunks arc (though that's probably the most prominent example outside of referenced artwork). But I don't think dredging them up was the or even a main intent behind Moro's direction as a character.

In terms of the overall conception of Moro, I have a hard time accepting the idea that Toyotaro would elect to make his first outing with a main villain of his own design (and probable own plotting, at least to a greater extent than any previous antagonists) so heavily referential of previous ones. Most of the more immediate connections that could be made between him and previous villains feel like superficial effects of the plot, and the extent to which he might recall Piccolo or Cell in any non-plot related ways would, I think, stem from the three of them being among the most blank-canvas "serious evil-doer where a serious evil-doer is needed" in DB's (manga) catalogue--at times pragmatic, at times giving way to hubris, rarely displaying character tics or interpersonal dynamics not related to the achievement of their immediate goals. (I don't dislike any of the three of them, mind you. I just don't feel like they do a whole lot more than they need to, and consequently aren't as memorable as either series' other main antagonists.)

I feel he's similar to Piccolo in terms of offering a perfunctory, clear supervillain. Their roles are similar; certain plot aspects connected to them are similar. But I don't think that the calling back itself is one of Moro's conceptual goals, except in terms of heralding in a serious supervillain-centric plot reminiscent of the manga's pre-Super ones. He gets that job done well enough, but accidentally, I feel, invites comparisons in doing so. It's possible that any villain conceived for a similar purpose may have wound up doing the same. That's the nature of Dragon Ball being in its seventeenth or eighteenth story, and those similarities are only going to be exacerbated coming off of Super's first five or six (relatively) unorthodox approaches to filling the antagonist slot.

[Magnificent Ponta]

In terms of the overall conception of Moro, I have a hard time accepting the idea that Toyotaro would elect to make his first outing with a main villain of his own design (and probable own plotting, at least to a greater extent than any previous antagonists) so heavily referential of previous ones.

It's admittedly speculative, but I feel that Toyotarou is going for a series of 'culminations' in this arc that harness the specific arc themes, Dragon Ball Super's introduction of Godly Power (Chapter 65, in particular, has 2 very deliberate visual callbacks to Goku's fight with Beerus when Moro gains Divine Power himself, and Chapter 66 runs with the idea of other characters gifting Goku the power he needs to achieve the Divine Form he's been seeking - so there's a clear closing of a 'ring structure' started by Battle of Gods there), and Dragon Ball's story more generally (in broadly the chronologically-advancing way I mentioned above, though that could stand some further finessing).

I think that by deliberately drawing on all of these to structure the climax of the narrative, Toyotarou's trying to make a grand sweep that makes for a kind of 'total resolution' (which is arguably why so many people picked up on that sense, and thought this might be the final arc before the 'End of Z'). One might consider that his appropriation of DB #517's Chapter title also plays into that feeling of 'culmination'. It may be me trying to read too much into intentions (Again? Say it ain't so!), but that's the impression I get. I agree that this is more a 'plotting' sense of the referential than a 'character' sense, but this is pretty much where my head's at on the Moro arc right now generally, and I think that belongs to the 'concept' of the arc, even if not necessarily of Moro himself.

[Cipher]

I suppose that, more than anything, I have a hard time seeing what exactly would be accomplished by that kind of deliberate calling back. I don't feel Goku, Vegeta or Merus' arcs in the storyline depend on it, and those three are its sentimental core.

And I do think Toyotaro is deliberate enough with his arcs to not have such deliberate, fundamental callbacks worked into its main villain without reason. (I know you're arguing that his deliberateness might mean he would, with intent--and we're both coming at this from the shared assumption that Toyotaro tends to be a pretty careful plotter--but I just don't see it. It's much easier for me to see it as the largely accidental byproduct of a "return to form" supervillain like Moro, his first time out, than deliberate homage, because I just don't see what they'd add.)

The extent that the Moro arc being a capstone in terms of the series' structure might have retroactively hinted at intentional callbacks and echoes would also seemingly be undercut by the fact that ... it is not, ultimately, a capstone arc in terms of the series' structure, as we have the Granolah arc continuing right along from its end.

EDIT -- To be clear, I think things like the thematic building upon of "true strength" and teamwork in the Tournament of Power are 100 percent intentional. It's precisely because I read an intentionality into the way plot points dovetail with thematic and character arcs in Toyotaro's execution of the Toriyama-drafted storylines that I do not read an intentionality into the callbacks with Moro. Were they intended, I think the ways they dovetailed with our central character arcs and themes would be more readily apparent.

[Magnificent Ponta]

The extent that the Moro arc being a capstone in terms of the series' structure might have retroactively hinted at intentional callbacks and echoes would also seemingly be undercut by the fact that ... it is not, ultimately, a capstone arc in terms of the series' structure, as we have the Granolah arc continuing right along from its end.

I don't think this necessarily undercuts the idea of there being a deliberately structured culmination drawing from Dragon Ball so far per se, any more than the 23rd Budokai's similar (less structurally essential, but more overtly presented) sense of culmination based on the whole series to date was undercut by the fact that the next threat from space showed up in Weekly Jump a week later. (If you feel it was, of course, that would blunt my point a bit )

I feel it gives a certain added "weight" to the whole thing to bear prior Dragon Ball along with it in this way, and somehow I don't think that general 'sense' would be lost on someone like Toyotarou, either, given his sensitivity to what's gone before. Whether it's entirely successful would be a different question, I guess. As I say, it's just the way I see it right now.

(EDIT: I thought about it a little more - scratch the 'less structurally essential' part for 23rd Budokai; it trades strongly on previous Dragon Ball with the appearance of Chi-Chi, Tao Pai Pai and Piccolo in working out its own sense of progress and culmination).

[Cipher]

I don't think this necessarily undercuts the idea of there being a deliberately structured culmination drawing from Dragon Ball so far per se, any more than the 23rd Budokai's similar (less structurally essential, but more overtly presented) sense of culmination based on the whole series to date was undercut by the fact that the next threat from space showed up in Weekly Jump a week later. (If you feel it was, of course, that would blunt my point a bit )

I feel it gives a certain added "weight" to the whole thing to bear prior Dragon Ball along with it in this way, and somehow I don't think that general 'sense' would be lost on someone like Toyotarou, either, given his sensitivity to what's gone before. Whether it's entirely successful would be a different question, I guess. As I say, it's just the way I see it right now.

I suppose it'll be on my mind as I reread the rest of the arc via the remaining color volumes, especially now that it's wrapped, but at this point all I can say is that I remain skeptical of the intentionality of any of Moro's backward-looking elements, for specifically the reasons I am not skeptical about Toyotaro's thematic intentionality elsewhere.

[The Undying]

I myself debated with The Undying and LoganForkHands73 over the extent to which Moro takes deliberate cues from elsewhere in Dragon Ball, as I agree that to a greater or lesser extent fans tend to 'specify' generic tropes and features as being attached to something in particular, even when it's not especially convincing (Cell is my particular bugbear here, as people look at Moro's face and then start contriving Cell-type connections where there aren't any, simply to sustain the slanted idea that he's a Cell rip-off).

Just gonna chime in and clarify that, while I feel the similarities between Seven-Three Moro and Perfect Cell are too numerous not to have been a deliberate connection, I don't think the extent to which I frame it as a critique is contingent on whether it's deliberate. It could be pure coincidence (or just adhering to more general tropes, as you say) and I still think he ends up at least feeling derivative for reasons I've laid out.

What really gets me is the fact that we have so few interviews on the arc. I'm interested in the creative process behind a lot of Toyotaro's design choices, but we rarely seem to get any tidbits.

[Kinokima]

I myself debated with The Undying and LoganForkHands73 over the extent to which Moro takes deliberate cues from elsewhere in Dragon Ball, as I agree that to a greater or lesser extent fans tend to 'specify' generic tropes and features as being attached to something in particular, even when it's not especially convincing (Cell is my particular bugbear here, as people look at Moro's face and then start contriving Cell-type connections where there aren't any, simply to sustain the slanted idea that he's a Cell rip-off).

Just gonna chime in and clarify that, while I feel the similarities between Seven-Three Moro and Perfect Cell are too numerous not to have been a deliberate connection, I don't think the extent to which I frame it as a critique is contingent on whether it's deliberate. It could be pure coincidence (or just adhering to more general tropes, as you say) and I still think he ends up at least feeling derivative for reasons I've laid out.

What really gets me is the fact that we have so few interviews on the arc. I'm interested in the creative process behind a lot of Toyotaro's design choices, but we rarely seem to get any tidbits.

Maybe there will be an interview in the volume that covers the final chapters of the arc.

[Lord Frieza]

The biggest flaw with Moro for me. is the lack of commitment to what the original idea behind him was.

They wanted a villain who would test the heroes in a different way then past enemies. One who fights Goku in a way no others had and Goku was ill-equipped to do so. Now at the start of this arc, thats what they do, as Moro proves to be more of a danger due to his powers and his planning , rather then just strength. The problem is that the creators don't commit to this idea and quickly fall back into tired trops, and Moro becomes more generic because of this.

He starts letting people go more times then he should, eve after they prove to be a threat, and one he absorbed Seven-Three he just started acting like every other villain the series had had. What made him unique was gone and while Vegeta develops new powers better suited to besting Moro, these are almost instantly counteracted and were right back to tired trop of Goku Powering up to beat the villain, the villain pulls a desperate move out his ass to amp up the stakes and then Goku finds a way to win.

Now I do appreciate that Moro's defeat is multifaceted. He cannot control ultra instinct because his body is not adapted to how it works, and both Goku and Vegeta work together with their new abilites to pull the win, but its still done in a way thats very derivative of what came befor and a lot of idiot balls and get out of jail free cards have to be handed out to reach that point, which greatly cheapen the story .

As a result while Moro started with a lot of potential, he ends up becoming more and more generic as the plot unfolds simple by the unfortunate luck of being a Dragon Ball villain at a point when Dragon Ball can't or won't try anything new.