Asian characters in Dragon Ball

[Melee_Sovereign]

Mr.Satan always came off as a parody of American pro wrestlers which seems to be a predominantly white sport

Now see, I just don't get this line of thinking. That because he's based on a predominantly white sport, he must be white. Rather than just looking at the character's physical appearance.

[Jaetinh]

Yes, stories do evolve. In this case, the Asian human boy Son Goku turned out to be an Asian looking alien who came from a homogenous alien race based on Asians.

Except we can't tell if he looks Asian due to the style of the art.

The reason why you're so adamant on Saiyans being their own ethnicity is because that means there's some hope that Goku could be white in your eyes.

Except I don't think Goku looks white.

Also, that doesn't even make sense. Why the hell would I want Goku to be white?

You may not be explicitly saying it but isn't it kind of obvious that's the reason? By implying that Saiyans should be their own ethnicity

It's not. You're just projecting. Or you're trying to vilify me in order to have some sense of moral superiority over me.

I meant what I said. Goku and the Saiyans look like their own ethnicity.

We can tell that Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan are supposed to be Asians and the same applies to Goku, regardless of him being an alien or human. He doesn't look Asian to you? Doesn't matter, everything points to him being an Asian character.

Why wouldn't you want him to be white? White people love to claim Asian anime/cartoon characters as their own. As long as the character looks white to them, they completely ignore everything else about the character. I assumed that was the case here since you seem to think Saiyans look like their own ethnicity and based on your "casting choices" irl. If that wasn't the case here, then my apologies.

[Ringworm128]

Maybe it's because Dragon Ball takes place on a fantasy "Earth" that might as well be another planet, but I don't think it really matters what race Goku or the other characters are. Sure there's tons of Asian culture in Dragon Ball, like characters wearing gi with kanji on them; but there's nothing really at the core of the characters that's tied to them being Asian.

[MasenkoHA]

Sure there's tons of Asian culture in Dragon Ball, like characters wearing gi with kanji on them; but there's nothing really at the core of the characters that's tied to them being Asian.

Well the story started out inspired by a Chinese fairy tale. At least two characters (Goku and Kuririn) are Buddhist many of the characters have an Eastern style of clothing and mindsets.


Buuut nothing at the core ties to them being Asian.


And blah blah fantasy world we’ve seen the Japanese and American flags in Dragon Ball

[Polyphase Avatron]

Sure there's tons of Asian culture in Dragon Ball, like characters wearing gi with kanji on them; but there's nothing really at the core of the characters that's tied to them being Asian.

Well the story started out inspired by a Chinese fairy tale. At least two characters (Goku and Kuririn) are Buddhist many of the characters have an Eastern style of clothing and mindsets.


Buuut nothing at the core ties to them being Asian.


And blah blah fantasy world we’ve seen the Japanese and American flags in Dragon Ball

Since when is Goku Buddhist? I can see Krillin, since he trained at a (supposedly Buddhist) temple, but Goku never seemed to have any kind of religious beliefs. And putting that aside, you do know that non-Asian people can be Buddhist too, right?

[MasenkoHA]

Sure there's tons of Asian culture in Dragon Ball, like characters wearing gi with kanji on them; but there's nothing really at the core of the characters that's tied to them being Asian.

Well the story started out inspired by a Chinese fairy tale. At least two characters (Goku and Kuririn) are Buddhist many of the characters have an Eastern style of clothing and mindsets.


Buuut nothing at the core ties to them being Asian.


And blah blah fantasy world we’ve seen the Japanese and American flags in Dragon Ball

Since when is Goku Buddhist? I can see Krillin, since he trained at a (supposedly Buddhist) temple, but Goku never seemed to have any kind of religious beliefs. And putting that aside, you do know that non-Asian people can be Buddhist too, right?

Goku did a Buddhist chant when he decapitated Sgt Metalitron and thought he killed him. He always told Mes or Goz that Enma Daio would tear out their tongue for lying. Grandpa Gohan raised him Buddhist.


And yes i’m aware non-Asian people can be Buddhist but its a religion far more associated with the East than the West and saying nothing indicates these characters ,that are based on Chinese folkfore, wear Eastern style clothing, practice a religion that came from and is practiced mostly in Asian, are actually Asian is in fact laughable.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well the story started out inspired by a Chinese fairy tale. At least two characters (Goku and Kuririn) are Buddhist many of the characters have an Eastern style of clothing and mindsets.


Buuut nothing at the core ties to them being Asian.


And blah blah fantasy world we’ve seen the Japanese and American flags in Dragon Ball

Since when is Goku Buddhist? I can see Krillin, since he trained at a (supposedly Buddhist) temple, but Goku never seemed to have any kind of religious beliefs. And putting that aside, you do know that non-Asian people can be Buddhist too, right?

Goku did a Buddhist chant when he decapitated Sgt Metalitron and thought he killed him. He always told Mes or Goz that Enma Daio would tear out their tongue for lying. Grandpa Gohan raised him Buddhist.


And yes i’m aware non-Asian people can be Buddhist but its a religion far more associated with the East than the West and saying nothing indicates these characters ,that are based on Chinese folkfore, wear Eastern style clothing, practice a religion that came from and is practiced mostly in Asian, are actually Asian is in fact laughable.

Goku just seems too... irreverent about every god, spirit, and supernatural being he meets to seem like a Buddhist to me.

[MasenkoHA]

Since when is Goku Buddhist? I can see Krillin, since he trained at a (supposedly Buddhist) temple, but Goku never seemed to have any kind of religious beliefs. And putting that aside, you do know that non-Asian people can be Buddhist too, right?

Goku did a Buddhist chant when he decapitated Sgt Metalitron and thought he killed him. He always told Mes or Goz that Enma Daio would tear out their tongue for lying. Grandpa Gohan raised him Buddhist.


And yes i’m aware non-Asian people can be Buddhist but its a religion far more associated with the East than the West and saying nothing indicates these characters ,that are based on Chinese folkfore, wear Eastern style clothing, practice a religion that came from and is practiced mostly in Asian, are actually Asian is in fact laughable.

Goku just seems too... irreverent about every god, spirit, and supernatural being he meets to seem like a Buddhist to me.

Doesn’t matter he wouldn’t be saying a Buddhist prayer if he wasn’t raised Buddhist.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Goku did a Buddhist chant when he decapitated Sgt Metalitron and thought he killed him. He always told Mes or Goz that Enma Daio would tear out their tongue for lying. Grandpa Gohan raised him Buddhist.


And yes i’m aware non-Asian people can be Buddhist but its a religion far more associated with the East than the West and saying nothing indicates these characters ,that are based on Chinese folkfore, wear Eastern style clothing, practice a religion that came from and is practiced mostly in Asian, are actually Asian is in fact laughable.

Goku just seems too... irreverent about every god, spirit, and supernatural being he meets to seem like a Buddhist to me.

Doesn’t matter he wouldn’t be saying a Buddhist prayer if he wasn’t raised Buddhist.

Maybe he was, but did he really keep any kind of observance as he got older? You'd think that literally coming face to face with the gods and legendary figures of your religion would trigger more of a response.

[Melee_Sovereign]

We can tell that Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan are supposed to be Asians and the same applies to Goku, regardless of him being an alien or human. He doesn't look Asian to you? Doesn't matter, everything points to him being an Asian character.

I've said a million times he looks ambiguous.

Being an alien matters. It means we know for certain he isn't native to his setting. Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan I suppose look kind of Asian. But I mainly can only tell from them because of their surrounding setting, and their names. But if it were later revealed that they are all adopted and are not native to their setting, then I would definitely call the idea of them being Asian into question. Because at the end of the day, the art style makes it hard to tell.

Why wouldn't you want him to be white? White people love to claim Asian anime/cartoon characters as their own.

So you think I'm white.

I assumed that was the case here

And therein lies your problem. You assumed.

If that wasn't the case here, then my apologies.

I literally said it wasn't the case multiple times. I literally never said I thought Goku looked white. I only ever said he looked ambiguous.

I'm not sure I entirely appreciate your apology, because you kept insisting that I had hidden meanings in what I was saying, despite zero evidence of it! But I guess thank you for the apology. Your apology will only mean something if you drop this ridiculous line of thinking right now.

[Jaetinh]

We can tell that Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan are supposed to be Asians and the same applies to Goku, regardless of him being an alien or human. He doesn't look Asian to you? Doesn't matter, everything points to him being an Asian character.

I've said a million times he looks ambiguous.

Being an alien matters. It means we know for certain he isn't native to his setting. Krillin, Yamcha and Tenshinhan I suppose look kind of Asian. But I mainly can only tell from them because of their surrounding setting, and their names. But if it were later revealed that they are all adopted and are not native to their setting, then I would definitely call the idea of them being Asian into question. Because at the end of the day, the art style makes it hard to tell.

Why wouldn't you want him to be white? White people love to claim Asian anime/cartoon characters as their own.

So you think I'm white.

I assumed that was the case here

And therein lies your problem. You assumed.

If that wasn't the case here, then my apologies.

I literally said it wasn't the case multiple times. I literally never said I thought Goku looked white. I only ever said he looked ambiguous.

I'm not sure I entirely appreciate your apology, because you kept insisting that I had hidden meanings in what I was saying, despite zero evidence of it! But I guess thank you for the apology. Your apology will only mean something if you drop this ridiculous line of thinking right now.

We are never going to agree on that so there's no point in continuing this.

And yes, once again I'd like to apologize.

[Jaetinh]

Maybe it's because Dragon Ball takes place on a fantasy "Earth" that might as well be another planet, but I don't think it really matters what race Goku or the other characters are. Sure there's tons of Asian culture in Dragon Ball, like characters wearing gi with kanji on them; but there's nothing really at the core of the characters that's tied to them being Asian.

Nothing that ties them to being Asian? Dragon Ball started out as a kung fu story based on Journey to the West. The setting is primarily influenced by East Asian culture, mainly Chinese and Japanese. Son Goku was created as a modern human version of the Chinese Monkey King. Toriyama's initial design for Goku was actually a monkey who looked just like Sun Wukong. According to his editor Torishima, the readers (Japanese audience who should already be familiar with Journey To the West) would expect a monkey boy, so they had to do something a bit different. The final design was changed to an ordinary boy with black eyes, black hair, tan/"yellow" skin with a monkey tail who wore Chinese inspired martial arts clothes. His name was still the same, the Japanese translation of Sun Wukong.

MasenkoHA earlier said Krillin and Goku are Buddhists. Goku as a person isn't really religious but he was definitely raised by his Grandpa with a Buddhist mindset. I'm a Buddhist as well because of my parents but I'm not really that religious. We often see him do this:



When we first meet Bulma, she's the complete opposite of Goku. She's from West City, she wears Western inspired clothes, has light skin, blue hair and her clothes has her name "BULMA" written on it with the English alphabet rather than with kanji or katakana (which is used when indicating something is foreign to Japan which Toriyama does often when he refers to Chinese words).

Yamcha's name is inspired by Chinese cuisine. The Chinese word yumcha (Drink tea) is translated to Yamucha in Japanese. He lives in a Chinese inspired desert, has black hair, black eyes and his original clothes was based on Ming Dynasty kung fu clothing, and he has a Chinese saber as weapon. On his shirt, he wears kanji as well.

Krillin is literally a Shaolin monk and his name is inspired by both Japanese and Chinese culture. He's bald, has black eyebrows, black eyes and the first time he's introduced, he wears Shaolin inspired clothing. Since he's a Shaolin monk, he's also a Buddhist.

Tenshinhan is bald with black eyes, black eyebrows and he also seems to be inspired by monks. His clothes throughout the entire series is based on Chinese kung fu and Shaolin clothes. His name is based on a Chinese-style Japanese food. His best friend Chaozu has white skin and he's a human based on Chinese hopping vampires, jiangshi. Chaozu's name is also based on the Chinese word jiaozi (dumplings).

So we have East Asian inspired characters with East Asian inspired names, East Asian mindsets, Chinese clothes and a East Asian setting, and a story originally written towards a Japanese audience based on a Chinese folktale.

Honestly even if we just look at the appearance and names, it's fairly obvious that they're supposed to be Asians. If we compare Goku, Krillin, Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Yajirobe and Muten Roshi to Bulma, they all have black hair, black eyes (except Muten Roshi because he's old but he had black hair when he was younger) with East Asian names and depending on the media, they also have somewhat have similar skin tones whereas Bulma is blue/purple haired, blue eyed and has a Western inspired name.

[JewyB]

The setting looks Chinese at first glance, but it’s actually an entirely fictional locale. The era is all over the place! And I think that’s fine. That’s because I can draw what I like, and whatever it turns into is fine! In other words, it’s “anything goes”, my specialty.

-Akira Toriyama, 'The Making Of Dragon Ball', 1984

[Jaetinh]

Yeah it's a fictional world just like how Avatar the last Airbender is a fictional world. Doesn't mean we can't tell what the races of the characters are supposed to represent.

[Nagyzöld]

A black-haired, dark-eyed character with Eastern Asian name, Eastern Asian clothing and customs, living in an Eastern Asian house and setting, inspired by an Eastern Asian story and loves martial arts?........... Yep, definitely looks like Zac Efron.

[Nagyzöld]

I always thought Nappa looked like Bill Goldberg.

Whose Next?

Personally I've always envisioned Nappa as a Mongolian warrior.

https://pin.it/6MVmTzI

As for Piccolo, I think it's a bit silly to put him under the race umbrella. He was meant to be a demon, turned-out-to-be slug alien, but never humanoid. So whoever would be cast in a live action, if they wanted to go on accuracy, have to be painted green, shaved hair and eyebrows off, have an inhumanly protruding forehead, antennae and pointy ears. And if we want to go even further in canon, only four fingers with black nails. So the race of the actor would be pretty redundant here.

[JewyB]

Yeah it's a fictional world just like how Avatar the last Airbender is a fictional world. Doesn't mean we can't tell what the races of the characters are supposed to represent.

In 6 pages of talk about Toriyama's intentions, it was the first quote taken from him, and you immediately took the chance to argue with it.

The creator said "anything goes", not "Asian goes", in regards to world setting, which would further extend to the characters within that world. Personally i would take that to mean that the characters can be asian, black, white, mexican, pokemon, ambiguous children's cartoon characters, maybe even aliens, but it doesn't imply they can't be any.

Also, ATLA's demographic can be argued easily in good faith, because they too, are ambiguously drawn cartoon characters, who have been places in an Asian setting, but within a fictional world, not a fictional Asia.

Personally though i just wanted to drop in with an actual quote from the creator, because after 6 pages of people talking about what he intended, i figured it would be nice to hear his words on the matter from when he created it, as opposed to restrospective conjecture. There's a whole website full of interviews and resources connected to this website, use them, especially if you're going to use your arguments to accuse people of racism, although i hope that track has ended now.

Anyways, that was my two cents, i dipped into this more than i wanted to in the first place. Laters.

[Jaetinh]

Yeah it's a fictional world just like how Avatar the last Airbender is a fictional world. Doesn't mean we can't tell what the races of the characters are supposed to represent.

In 6 pages of talk about Toriyama's intentions, it was the first quote taken from him, and you immediately took the chance to argue with it.

The creator said "anything goes", not "Asian goes", in regards to world setting, which would further extend to the characters within that world. Personally i would take that to mean that the characters can be asian, black, white, mexican, pokemon, ambiguous children's cartoon characters, maybe even aliens, but it doesn't imply they can't be any.

Also, ATLA's demographic can be argued easily in good faith, because they too, are ambiguously drawn cartoon characters, who have been places in an Asian setting, but within a fictional world, not a fictional Asia.

Personally though i just wanted to drop in with an actual quote from the creator, because after 6 pages of people talking about what he intended, i figured it would be nice to hear his words on the matter from when he created it, as opposed to restrospective conjecture. There's a whole website full of interviews and resources connected to this website, use them, especially if you're going to use your arguments to accuse people of racism, although i hope that track has ended now.

Anyways, that was my two cents, i dipped into this more than i wanted to in the first place. Laters.

He says the setting looks Chinese but it's an entirely fictional locate, yes that's obvious. This still means the fictional Eastern part of the Dragon World is inspired by Chinese culture. "Anything goes" which means he's able to play around with the world and its locations, the characters and incorporate other cultures and create entirely new things to create his own fictional world. I personally don't see how that means the East Asian inspired characters aren't supposed to be East Asians, the South Asian inspired characters aren't supposed to be South Asian and the same applies to the Native American inspired characters and the other characters that are clearly inspired by different cultures. He says the era is all over the place which is true as well. This allowed him to create a world that incorporated elements from different eras of different cultures., such as the old Chinese dynasties up till the 1980's. I didn't argue against his words, I'm arguing against your interpretation of his words.

[coeper2000]

the word saiyan also came from the word asian , goku has always been a asian superhero with a tail , he is based on monkey king who is also asian

white people stop dreaming , only superman is white

-
japanese have bigger eyes than chinese but also slanted

- goku is a asian japanese hero like astro boy

yamcha is asian

master roshi is asian

vegeta is asian

broly is asian

krillin is asian

son goten is asian

chi chi is asian

son gohan is asian

tien is asian too

mercenary tao is asian

pan is asian

[PurestEvil]

the word saiyan also came from the word asian , goku has always been a asian superhero with a tail , he is based on monkey king who is also asian

No, Saiyan came from Saiya-Jin; “jin” in Japanese means “person”, and “saiya” is a play on “yasai”, the Japanese word for Vegetable. It means “vegetable people”.

The rest of your comment is valid though.