Piccolo Discussion

[Kappa]

What do you guys think Toriyama/Toyotaro SHOULD do with Piccolo next? I personally think he should get a god form and train goten and trunks. (My original idea was to have C17 train them but then I realized there's not much he could teach them.)

[Grimlock]

For starters, I also think he should get a transformation/the red-eyed form already, not necessarily a god form. That should probably prevent him from stepping out of tournaments without being useful first (then again, Xenoverse 2 proved that he didn't need a form to be useful, but still, a transformation for him is in order).

His role should be a good balance between "teacher", "being part of the action", somewhat the voice of reason and etc. I really wouldn't like to see Piccolo reduced more often to a "plot device" in the way he was in Dragon Ball Super Broly, where he was there just for the fusion to be done. Since they bothered to put Piccolo in, do something more.

[theherodjl]

Piccolo needs something to be relevant again and it cannot just be a simple boost in power. The Saiyans have tried to overcome opponents by increasing their Ki, either through transformations & improved states, and this strategy has been historically-unreliable against most baddie-of-the-day types that can outwit them or pull out some ability(s) that negates the power ups of Saiyans. Piccolo would be an absolute moron if he tried to only increase his Ki to compete with the rising level of threats that the Z Senshi faces.
What ought to happen is that Piccolo should dig deep into his Namekian heritage to find some secrets of the Nameks that have been lost to time or create his own ability that is based on what he has witnessed thus far and improve upon it. The guy has magic on his side so anything is possible.
I'd totally kill to see Piccolo harness the power of the DBs into himself and take in all the Namekian power & knowledge that they have.

[Cipher]

Just ignore him and move onto new characters, honestly.

The same way DB has always done.

I like Piccolo, but he faded out of the spotlight naturally long ago. No reason to be more precious about the cast than the series itself is.

[Kappa]

For starters, I also think he should get a transformation/the red-eyed form already, not necessarily a god form. That should probably prevent him from stepping out of tournaments without being useful first (then again, Xenoverse 2 proved that he didn't need a form to be useful, but still, a transformation for him is in order).

His role should be a good balance between "teacher", "being part of the action", somewhat the voice of reason and etc. I really wouldn't like to see Piccolo reduced more often to a "plot device" in the way he was in Dragon Ball Super Broly, where he was there just for the fusion to be done. Since they bothered to put Piccolo in, do something more.

I would love to see the red-eyed form! It's simple but cool. And I totally agree with you!

[batistabus]

Continue being an uncle to young Saiyans.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I'd love to see Piccolo become a top tier main character and train with Whis or Merus, but I doubt it will happen, there would be too many top tier main characters, and they're not going to replace Goku or Vegeta anytime soon. The best we can hope for is more henchman for him to fight.

[DestructoDisc]

Retcon the "namekians don't have gender" thing and give him a GF. Big Green deserves love too.

Or have him give birth to a kid who could be Pan's new best friend.

[Ziegander]

I think what people are saying that, Piccolo is never going to be fighting the fights Goku and Vegeta are fighting anymore, never going to be going on the adventures Goku and Vegeta go on, they're right, but they're missing a bigger picture, I think so.

I think, if we're talking about what should Toriyama (and Toyo) do with Piccolo, I think they should expand their stories and get better at threading together multiple plotlines toward a single ending of an arc. They should start writing in stuff for Gohan and Piccolo to do, stuff for Krillin to do, for Goten and Trunks to do, for the Androids, for Bulma, and even for Tien, Chiaotzu, and Roshi to do. They should expand the narrative support for the supporting cast in their arcs, like back in the Frieza arc and the Cell arc, they don't need to have stuff for literally every cast member to do in every single arc, but finding more than non-filler goon fights for the non-Goku/Vegeta characters to do would help the entire franchise dramatically, not just Piccolo.

ALL that aside, to speak more about Piccolo specifically, I would love to see him and Gohan work together to train up the earthbound Z-Fighting squad, both so that they can all get stronger together, but also to learn from each other and develop new techniques and combination-techniques. If Goku and Vegeta are off doing space stuff and some other Moro-like shows up on Earth while Goku and Vegeta are busy, wouldn't it be nice if the Z-Fighters didn't have to hope Goku saves the day? While they go off stopping the entire universe from being obliterated or something, wouldn't it be nice if the Z-Fighters could save just the one world if need be? I think if you put Gohan as heroic team leader together with Piccolo his stern, genius right hand man and they whip Krillin, Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu into shape with the occasional assist from 17, 18, Bulma, and Roshi you've got some very compelling stories to tell.

[Nagyzöld]

Just ignore him and move onto new characters, honestly.

The same way DB has always done.

I like Piccolo, but he faded out of the spotlight naturally long ago. No reason to be more precious about the cast than the series itself is.

Except Dragon Ball didn't do that. It's been milking the same two characters over and over for hundreds of episodes. A natural course of the narrative would have been if the new generations took over. Instead they made Goku and Vegeta magically never age down, while their offsprings became useless as heck (and the side characters cannon fodder). So why not have other characters benefit from the same plot armor, too?

I agree with everything Ziegander said above me. I would love to see a new form of Piccolo, like SNG (Super Namekian God). Besides, their species has always been creative, they can come up with lots new ideas of abilities which don't necessarily involve screaming or changing color.

[batistabus]

Tori/Toyo should focus on telling interesting stories, not forcing plot lines for characters who were used up decades ago. Plenty of "legacy" characters (Freeza, No.17, Dai Kaioshin) have been organically worked in because they serve the story. The story didn't have to bend over backwards to make them work.

I would love to see a new form of Piccolo, like SNG (Super Namekian God). Besides, their species has always been creative, they can come up with lots new ideas of abilities which don't necessarily involve screaming or changing color.

Dende has more "potential" than Piccolo at this point. He can (and is aware that he should should) develop his God ki, and he'd be doing more than just throwing punches and shooting blasts.

[Kagari]

Just ignore him and move onto new characters, honestly.

The same way DB has always done.

I like Piccolo, but he faded out of the spotlight naturally long ago. No reason to be more precious about the cast than the series itself is.

Except Dragon Ball didn't do that. It's been milking the same two characters over and over for hundreds of episodes. A natural course of the narrative would have been if the new generations took over. Instead they made Goku and Vegeta magically never age down, while their offsprings became useless as heck (and the side characters cannon fodder). So why not have other characters benefit from the same plot armor, too?

Yeah they really didn't. The prime example being that with Vegeta who often doesn't have much of anything to do with the new elements that Super has added. He's been kept around despite it still not being his story. And beyond that, every major story arc that Toriyama chose to piece together himself (basically not Trunks or Broly) involves the larger cast. He's the one bringing them back every time. Wanting someone like Piccolo to stay around is a perfectly reasonable expectation because characters like 17, Roshi, Gohan, Vegeta etc have already gotten their own fair share of the spotlight. I don't see Toriyama suddenly stopping either, he's the one who created this sort of status quo after all.

[FortuneSSJ]

Piccolo should get a power up through the Namekian Book of Legends. If that book talks about the Super Saiyan God ritual, surely should have information of a new power up for the Namekian race.

[Yuji]

I agree with Cipher. One thing that keeps Super in my eyes from being a proper sequel to Dragon Ball is its inability to let time flow, and this includes dropping characters once their role in the story is over. Piccolo had transitioned pretty naturally into the supporter/baby-sitter role back in the Boo arc. Becoming a center piece of the action once again without some kind of arc to go along with it would feel at odds with his position at the end of Dragon Ball. His minor combat roles in Super arcs feel either out-of-place (such as the U6 arc where it seemed like he was the odd man out) or artificial padding (Moro). If Toriyama wants to rejuvenate the character like he did with #17 and future Trunks then that's great but as he is now, I'd rather he be kept out of new stories.

Folks keep bringing up Vegeta, but it's the same with him. He's being artificially propped up as the deuteragonist due to his popularity, but his arc ended long ago, and if Super were written in the 90s right after the Boo arc, I would have no doubt in my mind that Vegeta would have been retired out of the cast, if not by the Boo arc then at least by the middle of Super, and Goku would take center stage alone once more with a new cast of mainstays that had gradually replaced the old cast. Since Super was written 20 years after the fact, when Vegeta had become permanently engraved as a cultural icon, it's almost impossible to ditch the character and avoid repercussion (the same reason why folks now complain about the likes of Gohan and Piccolo not being in the spotlight, I suppose), but Dragon Ball always had a revolving door which characters would come in and out from.

[ChronoTwigger]

It's not strange that Piccolo is here, if someone consider Super as a kinda reboot for new generations. They've seen that green man around previously in games and cards and want to see it in the show now.

What Piccolo should do now?
Create variation. A story with Goku alone bashing people is a porno snuff movie. At least you have people say something, got ideas, occupy panels and so on. There's no need for those people to actually matter in the main plot.

[Hugo Boss]

I think Piccolo not being a prominent fighter right now serves the story better than just making him follow the same path as Goku and Vegeta. He is usually the one to have a sensible read of the situation and figure out a solution. Not to mention Moro used one of his most useful abilities, which is telepathy. So, in a strategic scenario he definitely comes in hand.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I'd like to see Piccolo go on solo missions for the Galactic Patrol, but I'm not sure if Toriyama and Toyotaro would be good at writing that kind of story.

[Cipher]

Except Dragon Ball didn't do that. It's been milking the same two characters over and over for hundreds of episodes. A natural course of the narrative would have been if the new generations took over. Instead they made Goku and Vegeta magically never age down, while their offsprings became useless as heck (and the side characters cannon fodder). So why not have other characters benefit from the same plot armor, too?

When you look at the characters front and center in the Boo arc, outside of Goku, they aren't the same characters who were front and center in early DB. Most weren't even around in early DB. The group shot that ends "We Gotta Powa!" is comprised primarily of strangers to anyone who might jump to it after the first five arcs of the series.

There'll be a few core players it clings to, but I like that there original run had a willingness to slowly shuffle older cast out. Vegeta came in as Tenshinhan went out. It never felt a need to keep characters that no longer felt like they immediately had something interesting to do in the spotlight just because they'd been there before.

We didn't get to see it go beyond the Boo arc, but it seems pretty reasonable to expect that as it continued onward, outside of the few it chose to focus on, it might let other characters (such as Piccolo) fade further to the side to make room for a central cast that looked fairly different to what had come before.

If Vegeta continues to be spotlit, it's because Vegeta continues to be spotlit, and for whatever reason Toriyama et. all are interested in continuing to do so. Obviously there are popularity factors involved too, but much as I enjoy the entire cast, I'm only really interested in having the story make room for whoever appeals to Toriyama (and I suppose Toyotaro now) at the time. "How do we fit Piccolo in just to fit Piccolo in" is ... not a question I find very compelling. (And even that said, you wouldn't find me arguing against Vegeta sliding into a supporting role too--as Yuji pointed out, it's a more natural follow-up in many ways, and something GT didn't seem to think twice about doing until its final ten episodes. That ship has sailed though, and given what Super has already committed to doing with him, for the meantime it seems natural to keep him at the fore. If you asked me for my ideal fan-idea next-arc though, I'd have Vegeta back in the supporting cast too.)

There are long-running series that juggle their entire, growing casts from page 1 until the end. Dragon Ball's never been that guy. I suppose it's an individual prerogative whether to view that as a creative failing or an ethos. It's always been Goku (outside of its early Boo arc experiment that lasted less than three months), but it's always been Goku and a steadily shifting cast.

[Koitsukai]

Yeah, I agree some characters have served their purpose and no longer there's a need for them to comeback in predominant roles. Big Green's development has been pretty smooth, from villain to antihero, to comrade, to friend, to uncle-ish.

As for Vegeta, well, yes, his arc ended long ago, but this isn't really a story about a bunch of regular guys going through life, college, work, trying to find love or whatever, and all they have is learning stuff about themselves for personal growth, this is about a story about the world being in danger constantly, and they are space warriors, so it makes sense to have the second strongest, and sometimes the strongest, still on the dance floor. I mean, GT took Geets out of the picture and, well... did that make any sense at all? the second strongest never contributing?

[Yuji]

Yeah, I agree some characters have served their purpose and no longer there's a need for them to comeback in predominant roles. Big Green's development has been pretty smooth, from villain to antihero, to comrade, to friend, to uncle-ish.

As for Vegeta, well, yes, his arc ended long ago, but this isn't really a story about a bunch of regular guys going through life, college, work, trying to find love or whatever, and all they have is learning stuff about themselves for personal growth, this is about a story about the world being in danger constantly, and they are space warriors, so it makes sense to have the second strongest, and sometimes the strongest, still on the dance floor. I mean, GT took Geets out of the picture and, well... did that make any sense at all? the second strongest never contributing?

Vegeta by the Boo arc was weaker than Goku, Gohan, Gotenks and Mr. Boo who had just been added to the cast (as well as arguably Oob if we take the epilogue into account). In this hypothetical world where Dragon Ball continued from the Boo arc onward, Vegeta would no longer be a necessary key for the protection of Earth considering stronger fighters existed (and no doubt stronger fighters would be added to the cast eventually that would also eclipse the aforementioned).

Like Cipher said, Super seems committed to take Vegeta as the deuteragonist of the series, but personally I find it a detriment at this point. The character has stagnated and frankly they're not doing anything new with him to warrant his continued presence. The only direction I could see for the character, and one I'd personally enjoy, would be for him to surpass Goku for an arc or two and then realize that this didn't grant him the satisfaction and purpose that he was seeking.