Kinda the moral of this whole thread, honestly.
GT and misogyny
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Re: GT and misogyny
Hence why we must hold the powerful accountable for their use or misuse of their platforms.
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Re: GT and misogyny
You’re right it is and if Goku had dressed up as a girl to have sex with Oolong I’d agree with you but Goku isn’t trying to get with Oolong he doesn’t even want to wear the clothes. He’s dressed up as someone Oolong is preying on to have Oolong take him to the other girls.
There are plenty of being gay is bad jokes in Dragon Ball but that really isn’t one of them.Not to mention hating penis is just stupid. The joke. Is predicated on "being gay and/or trans is bad" and "trans women are just men trying to trick straight men into 'gay' sex."
I absolutely do think Toriyama isn’t above cheap transphobic humor but that doesn’t seem like a solid example.
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Re: GT and misogyny
My mistake. I’m not sure why I typed it as one word.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:26 pm*trans person.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:24 pm I’m not positive that Toriyama in 1984 even realized what a transperson is.
Anyway, there’s a long list of things that Toriyama seemed to have been thoughtless about. Japan in general isn’t exactly the most progressive country on the planet and things were even worse back in the 80s and 90s.
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Re: GT and misogyny
i also think oolong's line about not liking a penis is more just to show how pervey he is about women, rather then oolong thinking gay people are gross or anything. like don't get me wrong it's a pretty lazy joke, and it's very of its time, but i don't think it's especially bad or anything.
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Re: GT and misogyny
The implication is still there, though. Furthermore, it's being implied that Oolong is going after girls for unspeakable deeds. While the ending might be a gag where Oolong gets comeuppance it's still being built off of the idea that "men in dresses are deceitful" and a joke. These are incredibly harmful tropes to propagate and someone at the publishing company should know better.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:37 pmYou’re right it is and if Goku had dressed up as a girl to have sex with Oolong I’d agree with you but Goku isn’t trying to get with Oolong he doesn’t even want to wear the clothes. He’s dressed up as someone Oolong is preying on to have Oolong take him to the other girls.
There are plenty of being gay is bad jokes in Dragon Ball but that really isn’t one of them.Not to mention hating penis is just stupid. The joke. Is predicated on "being gay and/or trans is bad" and "trans women are just men trying to trick straight men into 'gay' sex."
I absolutely do think Toriyama isn’t above cheap transphobic humor but that doesn’t seem like a solid example.
Re penis: but the implication of "I like women only, therefore hate penis" is still transphobic to men and women because penis does not man or woman make.
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Re: GT and misogyny
It's less that and more the joke of "THAT GIRL HAS A PENIS, IT'S A TRAP!!", which is very problematic.UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:46 pm It may not but what's wrong with Oolong not liking penises?
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Re: GT and misogyny
If a person views a penis as a turnoff, there’s not really anything that can be done about that. There are some pretty problematic things about Oolong, but that one seems rather tame.
Re: GT and misogyny
Oolong's implication in the context is that he hates penis' because it means that 'penis means man', but he doesn't like men...well, hell, until he saw the penis he was pretty into Gokuu anyway. Oolong is also implying that a woman is only good for her vagina.UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:46 pm It may not but what's wrong with Oolong not liking penises?
Toriyama and Morishita clearly placed zero thought into the production of the scene and it's really annoying.
(Also, it's just offensive to turn down someone you're in to because of their genitalia).
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Re: GT and misogyny
That's not the implication. It's saying he's not into guys.
To which I say "Tough!" If someone is turned off by that, that's just not what they are attracted to.
Last edited by ABED on Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GT and misogyny
Eh, yeah. I just wish the moral/resolution had been a little more pointed given the plethora of issues with the story.
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Re: GT and misogyny
Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.
Re: GT and misogyny
Illustrating "penis equals guy" is the issue, though. Oolong can be straight, implying that it's the genitalia that is the issue is the issue.
Also, it's your right to turn someone down for whatever reason but that doesn't mean you aren't being an asshole transphobe.
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Re: GT and misogyny
Even weirder is every single english dub (Harmony Gold, BLT, Funimation Studios, Blue Water) made him an adult instead of a kid so there’s the whole pedophillia aspect of him taking child brides instead of just being a creepy pervy kid.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.
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Re: GT and misogyny
I don’t think they actually made him an adult? I know they all gave him adult sounding voices, but if I recall, his backstory is still more or less kept intact.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:09 pmEven weirder is every single english dub (Harmony Gold, BLT, Funimation Studios, Blue Water) made him an adult instead of a kid so there’s the whole pedophillia aspect of him taking child brides instead of just being a creepy pervy kid.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.
Re: GT and misogyny
WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:11 pmI don’t think they actually made him an adult? I know they all gave him adult sounding voices, but if I recall, his backstory is still more or less kept intact.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:09 pmEven weirder is every single english dub (Harmony Gold, BLT, Funimation Studios, Blue Water) made him an adult instead of a kid so there’s the whole pedophillia aspect of him taking child brides instead of just being a creepy pervy kid.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.
Any reference to him being a kid were removed in the dub though.
Learned about Gyumao in school> changed to being a former tour guide
Bulma said there’s something wrong about a kid having the mind of a dirty old man> changed to just saying there’s something not right above him
They also just said he and Puar went to shapeshifting school without specifying that it was a kindergarten ala the original Japanese version.
They definitely aged him up to an adult.
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Re: GT and misogyny
As a trans woman myself I do agree it's problematic and I do understand the point about Oolong I was more so concerned that people couldn't not be into that.
I'm actually a trans woman that doesn't like penises lol. That said yeah, I agree with the overall consensus on that particular character.
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Re: GT and misogyny
Yes, it is an issue. It's just something he's not attracted to. That doesn't make someone a transphobe.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:07 pmIllustrating "penis equals guy" is the issue, though. Oolong can be straight, implying that it's the genitalia that is the issue is the issue.
Also, it's your right to turn someone down for whatever reason but that doesn't mean you aren't being an asshole transphobe.
Sorry if I sound obtuse, but I don't understand your point.UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:16 pmAs a trans woman myself I do agree it's problematic and I do understand the point about Oolong I was more so concerned that people couldn't not be into that.
I'm actually a trans woman that doesn't like penises lol. That said yeah, I agree with the overall consensus on that particular character.
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