Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Assume both Super and GT didn't exist and you were in charge of which characters play prominent roles in the next DragonBall iteration.
From what we've already seen:
A lot of people didn't like GT because it had Goku as a child, Pan as an over-powered co-star, and Trunks.
DB Super acts more like fan-fiction in this regard, that seemingly decides to give whatever character it wants huge boosts of power as it sees fit without any explanation.
DBZ virtually retired many characters after the Frieza saga, including Tien, Chiautsu, Yamcha, (mostly) Krillin, and following this Piccolo near the end of DBZ, and probably Gohan would have stopped training.
Instead, which characters would you keep relevant in the next DragonBall if you were in charge and why?
Personally, I think the BOG movie was the perfect way to end the main story, however, if I were in charge and was forced to continue, this is how I'd do it. my sequel would be similar to Boruto in that the next gen seen in EOZ (Goten, Trunks, Pan, Marron, Uub, & Bulla) would be the focus, with new characters being introduced as well. The old fighters (Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Tien, etc...) would mainly train everyone, and only handle the extremely major threats. One story I'd keep from outside the manga would be BOG, but nothing else. I'd also limit SsjG to requiring the ritual each time it's needed to ensure that the power scaling doesn't get too out of hand. One thing I'd be very strict with is avoiding repeating the same stories seen in the original manga, as I'd want these stories to feel truly unique, not more of the same with a different paint job.
Me and Robo have discussed this at great length, and we feel that the next generation should properly take up the helm post-Z. That is, Uub, Pan, Goten and Trunks, as well as Bra if she takes a liking to fighting. Marron is a bit more difficult to incorporate but not impossible.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:35 am
Pan, Marron and Bra! Let's see the three girls go on a journey to collect the Dragon Balls, defeat a bad lady and save their mommies!
I couldn't see this as a real, televised full-fledged DB but I think it would make for a good movie or fan-fiction.
Matches Malone wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:40 am
Personally, I think the BOG movie was the perfect way to end the main story, however, if I were in charge and was forced to continue, this is how I'd do it. my sequel would be similar to Boruto in that the next gen seen in EOZ (Goten, Trunks, Pan, Marron, Uub, & Bulla) would be the focus, with new characters being introduced as well. The old fighters (Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Tien, etc...) would mainly train everyone, and only handle the extremely major threats. One story I'd keep from outside the manga would be BOG, but nothing else. I'd also limit SsjG to requiring the ritual each time it's needed to ensure that the power scaling doesn't get too out of hand. One thing I'd be very strict with is avoiding repeating the same stories seen in the original manga, as I'd want these stories to feel truly unique, not more of the same with a different paint job.
Interesting. I personally can't really enjoy goten and trunks (besides some of their amusing antics in the buu saga) as they simply feel like watered-down saiyans, from a softer generation, and who have been essentially given their powers rather than earned it. Additionally, they're more or less just going to be chasing in their father's footsteps in terms of transformations/power that we've all already seen before.
Although it is interesting to see how many people would prefer the newer generation of fighters over Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, etc. Wasn't Gohan supposed to be the lead after Cell saga but fans were in outcry to bring Goku back?
KBABZ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:03 am
Me and Robo have discussed this at great length, and we feel that the next generation should properly take up the helm post-Z. That is, Uub, Pan, Goten and Trunks, as well as Bra if she takes a liking to fighting. Marron is a bit more difficult to incorporate but not impossible.
Gochu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:09 amAdditionally, they're more or less just going to be chasing in their father's footsteps in terms of transformations/power that we've all already seen before.
Although it is interesting to see how many people would prefer the newer generation of fighters over Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, etc.
Wasn't Gohan supposed to be the lead after Cell saga but fans were in outcry to bring Goku back?
This would be the main thing I'd try to avoid.
It's not that we prefer them, they're stories are simply over. Super is a great example of how bad it is to continue the stories of characters who already had their arcs concluded.
No, Toriyama didn't think Gohan fit the role of main character.
KBABZ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:03 am
Me and Robo have discussed this at great length, and we feel that the next generation should properly take up the helm post-Z. That is, Uub, Pan, Goten and Trunks, as well as Bra if she takes a liking to fighting. Marron is a bit more difficult to incorporate but not impossible.
...we've thought about this a LOT.
The biggest issue facing this idea is the suits' fear of doing anything new with the franchise, as they clearly prefer to keep things as safe and familiar as possible.
Gochu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:10 am
Link to previous thread?
We've only talked about it privately through Discord. I've made some references to it (like here for example) but we haven't publicly discussed it or told anyone what happens in it; it's a What If pet project between us, but we refrain from going crazy and try to keep the storylines and events as realistic and true to Dragon Ball, as if it were something that could be officially released.
The idea of it following on with the Kids as major protagonists was established pretty much from the get-go though, and it's a central facet of our story to commit what Toriyama was attempting to do with the end of the Cell and Buu arcs. We don't follow the rigid idea that Goku and Vegeta are the only heroes Dragon Ball has to offer at the end of the day, and that entire stories can be told completely in their absence.
Matches Malone wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:12 am
The biggest issue facing this idea is the suits' fear of doing anything new with the franchise, as they clearly prefer to keep things as safe and familiar as possible.
Well yeah, we'd be doing some cool new stuff that helps both of them have their own distinct styles of fighting, and we even mix up Gotenks is as a result. While our idea for a follow-up series does use a lot of facets from GT and Super, it's ultimately its own thing and remixes pretty much every aspect that we incorporate anyway. In fact we initially play Goten and Trunks as a logical conclusion of Trunks being an ass and Goten blindly following him, which I'd imagine a lot of Trunks fans would find very contentious.
KBABZ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:52 amWe initially play Goten and Trunks as a logical conclusion of Trunks being an ass and Goten blindly following him, which I'd imagine a lot of Trunks fans would find very contentious.
The good thing about those 2 is that they're basically a blank page, so you can take them anywhere you want, something that's difficult with the likes of Goku and Vegeta.
KBABZ wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:52 amWe initially play Goten and Trunks as a logical conclusion of Trunks being an ass and Goten blindly following him, which I'd imagine a lot of Trunks fans would find very contentious.
The good thing about those 2 is that they're basically a blank page, so you can take them anywhere you want, something that's difficult with the likes of Goku and Vegeta.
Exactly! We've taken the time to flesh out Goten and Trunks and examine who they are a little bit. Pan and Uub in particular we've tried to focus on as they're the new Goku/Vegeta protagonist pair, and Uub in particular needed a lot of work because he has very little about him even in GT. Pretty much all of the "kids" characters I mentioned are fairly blank as far as we know them in EoZ, which gives us a lot of room to expand on them and give traits and baggage.
Gochu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:09 amAdditionally, they're more or less just going to be chasing in their father's footsteps in terms of transformations/power that we've all already seen before.
Although it is interesting to see how many people would prefer the newer generation of fighters over Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, etc.
Wasn't Gohan supposed to be the lead after Cell saga but fans were in outcry to bring Goku back?
This would be the main thing I'd try to avoid.
It's not that we prefer them, they're stories are simply over. Super is a great example of how bad it is to continue the stories of characters who already had their arcs concluded.
No, Toriyama didn't think Gohan fit the role of main character.
Why are Vegeta and Goku's stories over? Character progression?
I don't think Super is proof of anything, I think Super is just a mess all around, and it fails because it has bad story, bad characters, bad art, bad writing, and was full of inconsistencies all over the place. The battles also suck and it seems to be targeted to a younger audience.
If anything, I'd think the constant fighting stronger enemies, getting stronger, and repeating is what will be tiresome.
Pretending that DBS and GT don't exist is hard! It conditions us to choose something different, because we know that they exist, but can't be considered. Personally, I would go with a human on Earth that is populated by more Saiyan hybrids than when Gohan, Goten and Trunks existed, because each one of them had families, but he wouldn't know whether he's a descendant or not. He wants to train and fight so that he can unlock transformations, to be among his peers, but learns true strength without the need to, goes on a journey and finds out that he's Goku's reincarnation well after his natural death, many years after the original manga events.
Gochu wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:37 amWhy are Vegeta and Goku's stories over? Character progression?
What I mean by over is that I don't think there's enough room for them to sustain a long running show on their own, which is why I like the idea of them taking a back seat to the new characters. They'd be involved in the major events that the next gen can't handle, but overall the story won't be about them.
I'd much rather you just trash the current cast entirely. Dragon Ball is Son Goku's story at heart (disregarding Heroes), even if he was just supposed to be a generic martial artist. In fact, you can even go with that route on doing a future iteration.
Create a new "Son Goku," a reincarnation several hundred years after the fact. Give the force of evil time to reload/coalesce without contriving anything and start anew. Except now we know of dozens of techniques and transformations from the old age that the characters will utilize. There's no reason to do Dragon Ball again beat-for-beat, so this would basically be the Second Quest. And if Online's canon is taken into consideration, Earthlings must also be way stronger and more adept at using ki. So something like a constant late-Dragon Ball/early-Z would be feasible.
You can still have some characters. Muten Roshi's immortal so he can speak of the old cast as if they were legends of an earlier age, warriors so powerful that the heavens trembled before them. Presumably Dende would still be around, if decrepit, as would Mr. Boo.
As someone biased towards fem!fighters, this would also be the perfect chance to have a female lead that isn't another character (even if they basically are)
Like a reincarnation of Goku that looks like Gine. Still pretty backwards, and it'd be hilarious if she was even less romantically capable than Goku (because in fiction, females = romance so it's something I can imagine Toriyama doing just to fuck with some heads), but no less powerful.
Spoiler:
(Bonus, it'd also be a great chance to see someone like Tao Lan Lan)
And I'd do anything to see a Link-clone as kung fu, karate, or superhuman MMA warrior
Just look back to the past for the future
Maybe even look elsewhere!
At this point it might as well be a brand new IP that just happens to use Dragon Ball properties... but fine! The age in which we live seems to relish in making everything evergreen as opposed to earlier, pre-Internet times with looser copyright laws, so why not try this?
Last edited by Yuli Ban on Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Yuli Ban wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:56 pm
I'd much rather you just trash the current cast entire. Dragon Ball is Son Goku's story at heart (disregarding Heroes), even if he was just supposed to be a generic martial artist. In fact, you can even go with that route on doing a future iteration.
Create a new "Son Goku," a reincarnation several hundred years after the fact. Give the force of evil time to reload/coalesce without contriving anything and start anew. Except now we know of dozens of techniques and transformations from the old age that the characters will utilize. There's no reason to do Dragon Ball again beat-for-beat, so this would basically be the Second Quest. And if Online's canon is taken into consideration, Earthlings must also be way stronger and more adept at using ki. So something like a constant late-Dragon Ball/early-Z would be feasible.
You can still have some characters. Muten Roshi's immortal so he can speak of the old cast as if they were legends of an earlier age, warriors so powerful that the heavens trembled before them. Presumably Dende would still be around, if decrepit, as would Mr. Boo.
I honestly wouldn't mind getting something like this. With how big the franchise is, why not take the risk on your idea (or something similar) in a limited 12 or 24 episode series ? give the writers full creative control and see how it turns out. People tend to not know what they want until they get it, so for all we know a crazy idea like this could be the next big thing.
I think people find the notion of the next generation taking over a story more interesting than it almost ever actually is. At best, you get a Cobra Kai where the next gen plays an important role but the original gen is still very much the focal point. I have ZERO interest in seeing DB without Goku as its lead. If they show does focus on newer characters, they shouldn't be the central characters. Of the ones that I think should be MORE prominent, I would go with Trunks and Pan, and MAYBE Uub. Goten isn't someone I find that interesting
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
If there are any feasible next generation characters to use in a future iteration of Dragon Ball, it would obviously have to be Pan and Oob. Maybe Goten and Trunks as well.
ABED wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 6:09 pm
I think people find the notion of the next generation taking over a story more interesting than it almost ever actually is. At best, you get a Cobra Kai where the next gen plays an important role but the original gen is still very much the focal point. I have ZERO interest in seeing DB without Goku as its lead. If they show does focus on newer characters, they shouldn't be the central characters. Of the ones that I think should be MORE prominent, I would go with Trunks and Pan, and MAYBE Uub. Goten isn't someone I find that interesting
Hence why I argue for any such project to be a spinoff or a new IP. Something besides Dragon Ball ABCXYZ.
Yuli Ban, I wouldn't have expanded my post better, so thank you for the outline and its content! I agree that some reincarnation many years later could still use everything that had been established until then. Perhaps it could serve as its own critique: here's everything that Dragon Ball did before. Now here's something better! No retakes.
