Dragon Ball Z, Vol. 1 (VIZBIG Edition) Information + Vol 2.

GotenZ1 · Post by **GotenZ1** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:41 pm

Does anyone have the actual individual monthly comic that Viz first released it in? I'm pretty sure that was completely uncensored, right?

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:43 pm

Forget that, let's see the color!
*is totally NOT copying Kaboom's IRC post*

dragondyle · Post by **dragondyle** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:58 am

How come people don't know this? We got an uncesored version of the Dragon Ball manga in America.

shotkeeper · Post by **shotkeeper** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:03 am

Oh we do? cool.

Brad Redfield · Post by **Brad Redfield** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:09 am

dragondyle wrote:How come people don't know this? We got an uncesored version of the Dragon Ball manga in America.

No we didn't. They altered Mr. Popo's lips in the initial release as well.

DBZ never got a full uncensored release either. The edits that were done in Shonen Jump remained in the manga release and continued until Viz finished releasing it.

I'm starting to wonder now if the "updated text" refers to removal of any cursing that was there in the previous releases.

Graphic · Post by **Graphic** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:06 am

They were actually referring to the original monthly comic release, not the graphic novel. The original monthly comic was Not censored at first, I have the whole first volume of individual comics for both DB and DBZ. These were great except for the paper quality and the fact that they are rather large and not compiled. A great read, none the less. Even the translation was done rather well. Damn instead of Darn or Dang was there, and sometimes the attacks were literal translations(kind of interesting)!

It all happened when some parents complained because these comics were being sold at Toys R Us. Although now, I actually doubt that the graphic novels or the Big Editions are being sold there.

I think I am most frustrated, because the general audience of Dragon Ball isn't the same as it was back then. There was hype, and all kids were into Dragon Ball, but now it's not so much the same. True, young children still find and enjoy Dragon Ball, but I doubt they need ALL things Dragon Ball as it was back then. They are more likely to watch it on dvd rather than pick up a large book! Like most manga, there is an age label clearly visible on the front anyway. If a young child gets this bought for them, it's the parents' responsibility, not Viz's. I just thought that Viz of all people would finally give us what we wanted, but it wouldn't be good ol' American Dragon Ball if we finally got something done right, eh? They need to let older readers have what they want, because in most cases we who read are mature enough for it anyway. (For the most part, he he)

Brad Redfield · Post by **Brad Redfield** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:35 am

The monthly comic release was indeed uncensored but it was cancelled in favor of Shonen Jump and the graphic novel release.

Really though. They censor Bulma's breasts to pamper "concerned parents"...yet they completely forget about the rest of the perverted humor that the series has, which renders the censorship useless.

If parents aren't going to allow their children to read a comic book with miniscule nudity...they sure as hell aren't going to let their children read a comic book where an old man wants to bury his face in a girl's chest or ask a pretty lady if he can cop a feel.

Let's not forget the gore that went uncensored in DBZ yet any gunplay was.

If I were to look up "inconsistent" in the dictionary, "nearly every english Dragon Ball release" would be there.

Graphic · Post by **Graphic** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:57 am

Sigh... parents, all they do is notice a little nudity and they go bonkers! Well if they notice it, then they shouldn't buy it for their kid! They don't have to complain to the world about it... instead than can just throw it away if they don't like it. The thing about consumerism is that we decide what to buy, I never understand how people complain about the content when they make that choice. And, if they are so concerned in the first place, get an opinion or read a review or something. Man I'm getting too fired up thinking about it! Damn, as Dragon Ball fans we should have put our feet down years ago! We should have refused to buy until they give us it in it's original form. Viz was loyal about this in the beginning and look what happened. At least FUNi gave us some un-censored DB, and as far as I know, not enough parents complained to have that pulled. This madness has to end!

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:06 am

Brad Redfield wrote:I said some stuff... bla bla bla... VIZ sucks.

Saying dirty things and showing a naked teenage girl are two completely different things. In American culture, dirty jokes aren't considered nearly as taboo as published underage nudity. Hell, in this country it might even fall under the category of "child porn."

As for gore and stuff, blowing up the top half of someone's body with a Kamehameha after teleporting is a lot harder to imitate than walking up on an old man, puling out a gun, and popping off a round into his face. Flying around and throwing punches that can shatter planets is also a little harder to imitate than shooting a dog with a rifle. One is considered "fantasy violence" while the other is "realistic violence." Apparently, in American culture, it's better to let kids have fantasy violence instead of realistic violence.

It's all about finding that balance between faithful translation and making things acceptable for our culture.

Do I like it? Not really. I'd rather see it completely uncensored in it's English form. Is it going to kill me that in a world where space men can gauge how powerful they are by their hair color and style that normal men have "blasters" instead of guns? Not really. Is it going to kill me that I don't get to see 16-year-old Bulma's breasts accompany English text for three whole panels out of 42 volumes of Dragonball? Not really.

So, thanks for taking it so seriously. I guess somebody has to or otherwise there'd be nothing to compare my outlook to.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:55 am

In all honesty, as much as this censorship seems wrong to me I hope they will at least leave the names alone now, hopefully we can get Mr.Satan, Majin Buu and such. Of course it seems less and less likely now. All teenage boobs aside there is no longer a need for "Her-Cule" to exist.

Brad Redfield · Post by **Brad Redfield** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:36 am

Kendamu wrote:So, thanks for taking it so seriously. I guess somebody has to or otherwise there'd be nothing to compare my outlook to.

SERIOUS BUSINESS.

I'm buying this release, not-serious-yet-serious-man. I was just pointing out some things.

Relax.

I said some stuff... bla bla bla... VIZ sucks.

No where did I say that "Viz sucks". I happily support some of their DVDs and various manga.

Saying dirty things and showing a naked teenage girl are two completely different things.

Yup. I know that.

In American culture, dirty jokes aren't considered nearly as taboo as published underage nudity. Hell, in this country it might even fall under the category of "child porn."

I typed out my thoughts on that kinda poorly. My bad.

I meant to say that the parents that actually complain are as likely not going to be happy about the sexual situations and dialogue as they are about the nudity.

I mean, this type of humor isn't something you see on Nickelodeon. If you tone down the nudity, you might as well tone down the sexual humor to make it safe for children to read it.

Wouldn't you be concerned that your child would go up to random girls and ask for a "puff-puff"?

Apparently, in American culture, it's better to let kids have fantasy violence instead of realistic violence.

Even if the "fantasy violence" has much more gore than the "realistic violence". I find Goku's wound from Piccolo's attack or Babidi getting decapitated to be worse than someone getting shot in the head for one panel.

But that's just my opinion.

I wonder though. Did Viz do any additional censorship during Dragon Ball for the gunplay? Like the Red Ribbon arc for example.

Or was the book considered too comedic at the time to censor that?

It's all about finding that balance between faithful translation and making things acceptable for our culture.

I agree but they also have to find a balance for their censorship standards. It just feels half-assed the way they're doing it.

If you want me to be truthful about the violence and sexual edits: they don't bother me a whole lot. Their inconsistency towards cussing bothers me much more, really.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:02 am

Don't worry. I was just giving you a hard time about the "VIZ sucks" stuff. For the most part, I like 'em, too.

Anywho, there are two ways I could try to explain their standards:

I could go into a bunch of philosophical and sociological stuff that explains intricate details of Western civilization (specifically American civilization).

...or...

I could say that the possibility of there being changes in the editorial staff, changes in target demographic, changes in the popularity of anime and manga, and changes in the overall format of selling Japanese comics in America could very well play into why things seem so inconsistent.

Let's go with the latter. It seems easier.

It's been around eight years since VIZ was publishing Dragonball and Dragonball Z in standard American comic format and we're just now getting around to what will likely be the second full release. In a very short period of time (in the grand scheme of comics) VIZ's publishing standards and target audience with Dragonball have changed from teenagers and adults who knew that the TV version was edited to teens who grew up on Dragonball and children who are just now seeing it on bookstore shelves today.

That, and also there was a little bit of drama with VIZ's Dragonball back in the day. Some parents would buy it for their kids thinking it was the stuff FUNi was putting out on TV only to find out that (GASP!) children suddenly knew what boobs and blood looked like and that Goku actually went to the Afterlife when Piccolo shot a giant hole in his torso! So, in order to not come under too much fire in a civilization where parents can sue companies because they're are too dumb to read the singular letter and a couple numbers to determine if what they're giving their child is suitable for them, VIZ obviously changed in order to make better business while still trying to stay a bit more faithful in the translation than FUNimation.

Even if it didn't work out so well in some cases (D'jinn and Vegerot).

Sure, it's likely that the parents would lose the suit, but that still takes time and money away from the profits of an industry that hasn't seen a decent boom since the early 1990s and put it in the pockets of lawyers. Who the Hell wants to buy comics knowing that all it does is give a high powered lawyer some more Benjamins to wipe his ass with instead of maybe helping the guy who translated what we're reading a decent paycheck so he can buy his kid something cool or make payments on the mortgage.

I'm rambling now. Time to go watch Avatar.

coola · Post by **coola** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:40 am

In Poland, Anime version is horrible,but I'm very happy that at least Manga is fully uncut and wonderful translate{Of course after release some fanatics in TV must attack

}

Chibi Mystic Gohan · Post by **Chibi Mystic Gohan** » Tue May 27, 2008 7:57 am

NeptuneKai wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote: Of course Bulma's chest is going to be covered; just because we think it shouldn't doesn't mean it won't.
Erm, it wasn't a given when they released it uncensored.
We're mainly so mad because it went from censored to uncensored back to censored.

VIZ was a very different company now than they were before Shonen Jump first started (or even for a while after it started, really). Things that were okay in their "teen rated" manga back then simply won't fly these days.

Brad Redfield wrote:they sure as hell aren't going to let their children read a comic book where an old man wants to bury his face in a girl's chest or ask a pretty lady if he can cop a feel.

I'm pretty sure they edited out the "puff puff" scene when they started censoring the Shonen Jump editions of the Dragon Ball portion of the manga last year.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Tue May 27, 2008 10:27 am

With jokes, the kids don't get it anyway. With, uh... assets... the kids might grow up to early.
Nuff said.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Tue May 27, 2008 10:38 am

bkev wrote:With jokes, the kids don't get it anyway. With, uh... assets... the kids might grow up to early.
Nuff said.

Because kids never saw a set of boobs before.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue May 27, 2008 11:35 am

I still say they can have their censored stuff out there, and have an uncut edition availible only online.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:14 pm

Really? Censored? Again? How is it that there have been uncensored, uncut DBZ DVDs coming out since 1999, but 9 years later, Viz still thinks that would be inappropriate? It's because Yu-Gi-Oh never had flashing girls or characters named Satan. Whatever. I don't care what they call each other. As long as the translation is good. I don't care if they called Bulma Nancy and Goku Tito.

Who are they targeting? It's like all they want to do is hit the kids mark. Okay, fine. I know that the show was intended for kids. BUT...the kids who were fans of the show GREW UP. Kids today have no interest in Dragon Ball. Why? Because it ran its course. It was a big hit...like in the mid 90's to the very, very early 2000's in the United States. Now that they show it once a week, at some crappy time slot, you have to re-think who's actually still buying DVDs and Mangas of it.

Now if Viz was playing FUNimation and Akira Toriyama was playing Toei, and Akira Toriyama did not let Viz use all of the DB/Z things (uncensored material, just like Toei not letting FUNimation have some audio licenses), that's another story. But we all know that's not true.

I would get the Japanese manga, but that would do me no good. I do not know Japanese and as much as I'd like to learn it, I doubt that would happen. See, I don't want to get the Japanese manga for the same reason I don't want to get the Dragon Boxes...because I wouldn't understand it. And I'm sorry, but I'm not THAT huuuuge of a fan to get it just to look at the pretty pictures. The only reason I ever considered getting the manga is because I want to be a little more educated in those "this is filler, this is not, filler says this, the original doesn't say that" discussions.

Yi Xing Long · Post by **Yi Xing Long** » Tue May 27, 2008 3:45 pm

Yeah, most kids today don't even have any idea what the hell Dragon Ball IS! The only thing they know is naruto. Viz is just a bunch of bastards that choose to release shit like naruto at the fastest pace possible, but they take 4 months to get ONE volume of Shaman King out. WTF. Plus they edit it and it is rated TEEN! Shit, not many kids today even know what Shaman King is either. The only thing they know is naruto and bleach.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:22 pm

Yi Xing Long wrote:Yeah, most kids today don't even have any idea what the hell Dragon Ball IS! The only thing they know is naruto. Viz is just a bunch of bastards that choose to release shit like naruto at the fastest pace possible, but they take 4 months to get ONE volume of Shaman King out. WTF. Plus they edit it and it is rated TEEN! Shit, not many kids today even know what Shaman King is either. The only thing they know is naruto and bleach.

That's because those are two of the properties{along with DeathNote} that Viz wants to push.

Kanzenshuu

Dragon Ball Z, Vol. 1 (VIZBIG Edition) Information + Vol 2.

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