Who do people underestimate Goku so much in his first fight with Vegeta?

[nickzambuto]

I see a lot of fans claiming that Vegeta would have defeated Goku even without using his Oozaru form, because Goku was drained after the KKx4 whereas Vegeta seemed to be fine.

I know Goku was drained, but how many times have we seen Goku endure inhuman punishment and keep fighting? We saw this supposedly "drained" Goku actually fight Oozaru Vegeta for a very long time, endure several hits, and take Vegeta's eye. Clearly Son Goku was far from giving up.

If you don't think that Goku would have forced himself into another KKx4 in order to knock Vegeta out cold, then you are underestimating Son Goku. Another KKx4 would have taken away his ability to move, but if he knocks out Vegeta at the same time, it'll be worth it. And we know base Vegeta cannot stand up to the KKx4, he'd get cracked open.

Basically I am saying that base Goku won the fight versus base Vegeta.

[theherodjl]

Well...

Chapter: 232 (DBZ 38), P6.3, P7.3
Context: after Vegeta gets sent flying by Goku's Kaio-Ken x4 Kamehameha
Vegeta: “If…if it’s come to this, though I hate how ugly Oozaru is, I’ll transform into one and smash him…!! Kukkukku…As an Oozaru I’m overwhelmingly strong…!!”
Kaio: “But Son Goku has no strength left. Even without Oozaru, the Saiyan may be more than enough for him. But he’s gotten weaker too! The way he is now, if we could only hit him with the Genki-Dama, we’ll win for sure!!!!”

Chapter: 241 (DBZ 47), P10.1
Goku: “I trained under Lord Kaio… I thought I’d hit the peak of power… But Vegeta was…so far above me…! I was shocked… Scared…”

Chapter: P2.3-4
Goku: “I didn’t expect him to be so powerful. Not even the Kaio-Ken did much against him.”
Kaio: “Well…*ahem*…yes. Vegeta’s power was a bit of a miscalculation on my part as well. Actually, a pretty big miscalculation…”

I don't think a lot more needs to be said.

[Cursed Lemon]

One has to wonder, though, if Vegeta was stronger than Goku then why did he bother transforming.

[theherodjl]

To utterly overpower him I suppose. His pride had taken a hit so Vegeta was in the mood to be sadistic by showing just how outmatched Goku really was. Freeza did the same thing: he was already ahead of Vegeta, Gohan, Krillin, and Piccolo in his 3rd form but then turned to his 4th form just to drive the point home.

[Goku da Silva]

I see a lot of fans claiming that Vegeta would have defeated Goku even without using his Oozaru form, because Goku was drained after the KKx4 whereas Vegeta seemed to be fine.

I know Goku was drained, but how many times have we seen Goku endure inhuman punishment and keep fighting? We saw this supposedly "drained" Goku actually fight Oozaru Vegeta for a very long time, endure several hits, and take Vegeta's eye. Clearly Son Goku was far from giving up.

If you don't think that Goku would have forced himself into another KKx4 in order to knock Vegeta out cold, then you are underestimating Son Goku. Another KKx4 would have taken away his ability to move, but if he knocks out Vegeta at the same time, it'll be worth it. And we know base Vegeta cannot stand up to the KKx4, he'd get cracked open.

Basically I am saying that base Goku won the fight versus base Vegeta.

Anyways...Second best fight of the entire series

[Lionel]

Goku could have won without the Spirit Bomb if he was able to manage the level of acclimatisation to the highest multiplier of Kaioken that we see of him during the Tournament of Power. Kaioken's two greatest shortcomings are that it's a big drain on stamina and causes the body to rapidly break down in the process of using it.

I know it isn't canon but look at the recent fight in Dragon Ball Multiverse between Uub and Goku. A fully trained Uub is capable of projecting a Kaioken multiplier powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with a post-epilogue SSJ3 Goku but it's been pointed out numerous times that while Kaioken and SSJ3 have the stamina depletion setback in common, Kaioken is even more detrimental in that it actively damages the body. You would need to either mitigate the strain of the ability or in the case of Multiverse Uub, which I'm personally hoping for, he's able to circumvent the consequences somehow with whatever magical quirks Buu provided him.

[nhienphan2808]

Vegeta then had NO idea you could change your power suddenly like that. He transformed because he thought that is Goku's true strength , when the truth is Goku couldn't mantain it for long. If Vegeta was more patient or had skills on that he would have realized he was still stronger. So i guess in sheer power he's still more powerful without transforming, but he was right to call that a defeat because he didnt have the martial arts skill Goku had.

[blacksymbiote]

One has to wonder, though, if Vegeta was stronger than Goku then why did he bother transforming.

Vegeta didn't know about the kaioken. For all he knew, Goku could naturally reach that level.

[DragonBallFoodie]

The first fight? Wasn't that when Goku came back from the dead to fight a member of the race that had dispatched him?

I won't say he was underestimated, but the odds seemed fairly against him.

[DBZAOTA482]

Vegeta didn't know how Kaioken works. He just knew Goku glows red and gets stronger all of a sudden.

[lancerman]

Vegeta didn't know how Kaioken works. He just knew Goku glows red and gets stronger all of a sudden.

Does he even glow red? I remember in the Freeza arc the big reveal was that Goku had been fighting in Kaioken the entire time and Freeza was still dominating. It's really not known how much of an aura characters can visualize.

Vegeta may have just seen a bulked out Goku suddenly crashing into him with absurd strength and pushing his beam off.