"Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

[MyVisionity]

Also, did the comics from around the time that BB was made ever actually state that Ra’s Al Ghul is Middle Eastern? Yes, ‘Ra’s Al Ghul’ is an Arabic name, but that’s not his real name. It’s a title. Besides, having the villain of a superhero movie in 2005 be a Middle Eastern terrorist might not have been very good optics…

The Bronze Age comics never specifically made mention of his race but everything about him implied Middle Eastern or Asian origins. Regardless, casting him with a White European actor is a problem no matter what.

I agree with your feelings on the DCAU.

The Batcave was way too dark

It’s a cave. Also funny how those movies remembered he has a Batcave. The Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises say what?

It's a cave that has been repurposed as a workspace. Turn on the lights.

Unless they wanted to build a replica Batcave underneath the penthouse building like in the comics, an underground bunker is a suitable alternative in TDK. And the cave was back in Rises.

.

Batman's armor and gadgets made him feel like a time traveling robot from the future, his vehicles were completely over the top.

So aside from the heavy immobilizing armor this was different from the comics how?

The equipment isn't as overused or exaggerated in the comics, nor is it given so much attention.

The Joker falling into a vat of chemicals was never especially important to the character.

It’s also indisputably been a part of his origin story forever. Also Ledger’s Joker isn’t the least bit comic
book accurate as a character either.

That doesn't make his origin story any less unimportant.

Ledger's Joker is very comic book accurate.

"Zorro" is a Frank Miller addition and most certainly of zero importance to the character.

Other than the fact that Batman is clearly inspired by Zorro you mean?

He's inspired by many different characters, not just Zorro. Including Robin Hood, which I believe was the movie that the Waynes went to see in the Superfriends version of the origin story. The point is that the comics went decades without giving the movie a name, and that was never relevant to the story.

Lmao. The story was never grounded in reality. Pretending that ditching all the fantastical concepts in the comics somehow makes the movies more accurate to the comics is just plain nonsense.

The story was always grounded in reality. That is the reason Nolan's films are more accurate to the comics.

[precita]

I respect Batman TAS for its overall quality and what it did for television animation, but it's overrated, and definitely not what I think of when I hear "Batman". It's a fun and very well-made version of Batman for children's television, at least in its original incarnation. The later years lost their way, and don't get me started on the whole Justice League mess.

Toriyama's Dragon World is a unique blend of the strange and fantastical with the normal and ordinary. One thing that I think is important for a live action Dragon Ball would be to stay true to the setting and world as seen in the original manga and anime. This is something that Nolan's Batman trilogy got right, by sticking to the source material in that regard. It was refreshing after the previous adaptations had ignored it.

It's the best Batman cartoon because we're now 30 years later and there's yet to be a more definitive version. I love Brave and the Bold but since it was based on the old 50's/60's era Batman and more campy, I can't take it as a definitive version.

I think the show has plenty of great eps all throughout is run as does the entire DCAU with JLU included. Sure there's some dud eps along the way, but every show has their bad episodes. It's the definitive take on the characters, so much so that the comics started reimagining the characters closer to their cartoon counterparts like Mr. Freeze especially.

[MyVisionity]

It's the definitive take on the characters, so much so that the comics started reimagining the characters closer to their cartoon counterparts like Mr. Freeze especially.

I strongly disagree that it is the definitive take on the characters. In animation possibly, but not anywhere else. The comic books taking cues from the DCAU was never a good thing. And Mister Freeze is a silly and mediocre villain no matter what. Seriously, his name is "Mr. Freeze". I mean, really?

[WittyUsername]

The Bronze Age comics never specifically made mention of his race but everything about him implied Middle Eastern or Asian origins. Regardless, casting him with a White European actor is a problem no matter what.

Well, as I said, if they made the villain of the movie a Middle Eastern terrorist, that would’ve invited some unfortunate implications, especially when the War on Terror was still going on at the time. It’s similar to why Marvel avoided using the Mandarin for so long.

[MasenkoHA]

Ledger's Joker is very comic book accurate.

In the comics the Joker is an insane clown with a bad sense of humor who kills and tortures people as a joke.

In The Dark Knight he’s a grungy anarchist terrorist. Who waxes his nihilistic reddit philosophy . Not to be confused with the terrorist from the previous movie. Or the terrorist in the next movie.

He's inspired by many different characters, not just Zorro.

Sure he’s inspired by a lot of different characters from pulp fiction. but Zorro has always been the main one. The dual identity as a rich millionaire, the secret lair, having a form of transportation, the faithful butler. The whole reason Miller made Zorro the movie the Waynes saw was to legitimize Batman’s similarities to Zorro in-universe.

Including Robin Hood,

yes because Batman is known for stealing from the wealthy and giving to the poor.

The story was always grounded in reality. That is the reason Nolan's films are more accurate to the comics.

Yeeeeaah. Again your logic doesn’t track. “Batman is realistic so by removing all the fantastical elements from the comics it actually makes the Nolan movies MORE ACCURATE to the comics” you’re adding 2+2 and getting purple.


If anything Batman Forever is the most accurate depiction of Batman in the comics. And I say that a someone who fucking hates Batman Forever.

[precita]

I strongly disagree that it is the definitive take on the characters. In animation possibly, but not anywhere else. The comic books taking cues from the DCAU was never a good thing. And Mister Freeze is a silly and mediocre villain no matter what. Seriously, his name is "Mr. Freeze". I mean, really?

Is Mr. Freeze's name any sillier than someone who calls themself, "The Riddler?" or "Mad Hatter" or "The Penguin" when his name is Oswald Cobblepot?

Mr. Freeze was a D-tier villain in the comics named Mr. Zero before Bruce Timm reinvented him and now his iconic backstory of trying to save his frozen wife Nora from a disease is his best known incarnation to the point where it's used in the comics and Arkham videogames and even the Batman and Robin movie.

The B:TAS Joker is considered one of the most iconic takes on the character to the point where every time Joker is in animation new voice actors also imitate Mark Hammil's Joker voice. Before that if you watch the old Superfriends cartoon from the 70's The Joker used to sound nothing like that.

Harley in the cartoon is great because she was basically a Looney Tunes character in B:TAS. Just because the comic writers heavily sexualized her and promoted her to be something she wasn't doesn't damper the original incarnation of the character. Most of her focus eps in B:TAS are among the best eps of the series because they knew how to write her.

[MasenkoHA]

Just because the comic writers heavily sexualized her and promoted her to be something she wasn't doesn't damper the original incarnation of the character

To be fair, as WittyUserName already indicated in one of his previous post, Harley being a sexual character originated in the 90s cartoon. Her own creator wrote The Mad Love comic that established she slept her way to her psychology degree. It got removed in the cartoon version because of broadcast standards reasons but it was still something her creator envisioned.

If anything she’s far less sexualized now that she’s not just the Joker’s punching bag girlfriend anymore. I think Julie already mentioned it before but Birds of Prey was quite good and a better version of Harley than the 90s cartoon.


.

Most of her focus eps in B:TAS are among the best eps of the series because they knew how to write her.

Better than their version of Catwoman at any rate. Who spent more time as a hero than a villain. A really ineffective hero that had to get saved everytime that going back to crime was in her best interest.

[JulieYBM]

Birds of Prey is so cool because it features all thes different types of women being badass and it's not really something you get to see too often, especially without misogyny inexplicably present. While I do think that it's a bit overplayed to keep focusing on 'getting away from The Joker' as a theme for Harley in the film I do like that the film frames her as capable of starting a new life, at least. There's still that underlying theme of how men control women's lives, though, but at least in this case it is a theme being explored by women at the helm and not just a cis man masturbating to the concept of being a male feminist.

[MyVisionity]

In the comics the Joker is an insane clown with a bad sense of humor who kills and tortures people as a joke.

Exactly like in The Dark Knight.

In The Dark Knight he’s a grungy anarchist terrorist. Who waxes his nihilistic reddit philosophy.

Exactly like in the comics.

Including Robin Hood,

yes because Batman is known for stealing from the wealthy and giving to the poor.

He's known for bringing justice and as a protector of the helpless and oppressed, yes. And Robin Hood, like Batman, is also a legendary figure whose deeds inspire good people to take action. Not to mention that he's the Boy Wonder's namesake.

I forget which film version it was but Kane or Finger stated that Batman was based on Robin Hood.

Better than their version of Catwoman at any rate. Who spent more time as a hero than a villain.

Catwoman had mostly been a hero since the 1970s. They probably just wanted to bring that version on screen after her previous depictions in film and television.

[Hellspawn28]

Another thing that I dislike about Zack Synder is his over use of slow motion. Watching DB fights in that style would be annoying to sit through in my opinion.

I respect Batman TAS for its overall quality and what it did for television animation, but it's overrated, and definitely not what I think of when I hear "Batman".

It's not even the best superhero animated show from North America in my opinion. The HBO Spawn animated series, The Maxx, and Invincible on Amazon Prime are better superhero shows in my opinion.

[JulieYBM]

Another thing that I dislike about Zack Synder is his over use of slow motion. Watching DB fights in that style would be annoying to sit through in my opinion.

I respect Batman TAS for its overall quality and what it did for television animation, but it's overrated, and definitely not what I think of when I hear "Batman".

It's not even the best superhero animated show from North America in my opinion. The HBO Spawn animated series, The Maxx, and Invincible on Amazon Prime are better superhero shows in my opinion.

Oh lord, that slow-mo put me to sleep so much in Justice League. My lord, the fights aren't even well shot and choreographed, stop glorifying them!

[MasenkoHA]

Slow-mo in movies should be outlawed. We get it, you need to stretch the runtime out.

[JulieYBM]

Slow-mo in movies should be outlawed. We get it, you need to stretch the runtime out.

Give me elevator scenes any day of the week.

[ABED]

Like anything, slowmo can be abused, but DB made effective use of it, usually after a flurry of offense to show us what the hell went on. Although, Kuririn and Jackie Chun taking time out of their match to take the ref and audience step by step through what just happened was amazing ways to explain what went on ever. It was brilliant exposition.

[Anonymous Friend]

Birds of Prey is so cool because it features all thes different types of women being badass and it's not really something you get to see too often, especially without misogyny inexplicably present. While I do think that it's a bit overplayed to keep focusing on 'getting away from The Joker' as a theme for Harley in the film I do like that the film frames her as capable of starting a new life, at least. There's still that underlying theme of how men control women's lives, though, but at least in this case it is a theme being explored by women at the helm and not just a cis man masturbating to the concept of being a male feminist.

We've been getting badass women since the 70s and probably earlier. And they've been extremely popular with men and women. Heck, Dragonball give us three of them in Bulma, Chi-Chi and Videl.

Also, men control women's lives? You do realise that almost every male on this planet simps for at least one woman?

[Anonymous Friend]

Another thing that I dislike about Zack Synder is his over use of slow motion. Watching DB fights in that style would be annoying to sit through in my opinion.

Man of Steel had zero slowmo.

[JulieYBM]

Birds of Prey is so cool because it features all thes different types of women being badass and it's not really something you get to see too often, especially without misogyny inexplicably present. While I do think that it's a bit overplayed to keep focusing on 'getting away from The Joker' as a theme for Harley in the film I do like that the film frames her as capable of starting a new life, at least. There's still that underlying theme of how men control women's lives, though, but at least in this case it is a theme being explored by women at the helm and not just a cis man masturbating to the concept of being a male feminist.

We've been getting badass women since the 70s and probably earlier. And they've been extremely popular with men and women. Heck, Dragonball give us three of them in Bulma, Chi-Chi and Videl.

Also, men control women's lives? You do realise that almost every male on this planet simps for at least one woman?

Cis men/the patriarchy do[es], indeed, historically enforce their will over women through politics, media, society and family structures. Hell, men right now are trying to take away my right to exist and have human rights and healthcare.

Like, hi, woman who #LivesInASociety here. Okay, that sounds sarcastic but you get the point. I'm well aware that cool men exist. In fact, I'm friends with many cool guys! That doesn't mean that woman don't ultimately play second fiddle to cis men on this planet. This is a big part of why it's such a pain in the ass to get media created by and for women. Or women having any autonomy over their bodies.

Sorry, not able to put a lot of energy into this reply. I'm busy with stuff and health issues.

[lancerman]

Starting off with Tao Pai Pai doesn’t make much sense to me. He’s just a mercenary. You could maybe do the Red Ribbon Army, but I will echo the sentiment that starting off with Piccolo is the most pragmatic way to go.

It creates several problems. RR army is necessary for Cell and the androids, you skip over Goku getting real training from Kame Senin and Karin. You got to find new ways to get Kuriren and Tenshinhan in there.

Too much of the foundation starts in the first few arcs

[JulieYBM]

Well, when creating a film version you first have to answer...what story do you want to tell? What characters do you want to use? Pare down the elements to the essentials and see how the film begins to take shape from there. I don't think it's necessarily to include everything from the comics or the cartoons, just enough to tell the story that the film's creator wants to tell. Start with one character and then build the film from there, adding new characters only if necessary to develop the story of that central character.

For example, if we want to tell the Saiyan arc I believe that it would personally be best to centralize the film on Son Gohan. Use Son Gohan as the audience anchor. Not only is he new to battle but he's also going to be new to the greater world of Dragon Ball. Start a Saiyan arc film off not with Raditz but with Gohan waking up in the mud and filth after being kidnapped by Piccolo. Get your footing from there, seeing Gohan become acquainted with surviving on his own, learning martial arts and ki control and then being introduced to Gokuu's friends.

So, rough notes as an example:

•First shot: POV through Gohan's eyes of waking up and looking up at Piccolo scowling down at him. Gohan's confusion plays out and we live it through him. Who is the mean scary green demon guy?
•Piccolo explains that he's leaving Gohan to learn to survive on his own.
•Gohan's confusion and foggy memories about the day play out through his dialogue with Piccolo.
•Gohan transforms into a giant ape at night fall. This scene is played over the opening credits, interspersed with shots of Gohan's memories from the Kame House meeting and being kidnapped by Raditz.
•Gohan dreams about his dad's death, wakes up the next morning in his dougi with a sword. That's your first ten minutes of the film right there.
•Adapt the Saiyan arc anime-original scenes a bit to flesh out Gohan's development in the first act. Throw in the dinosaur or the robot, show Gohan's personality and resourcefulness that way. Not cut-aways to other plot threads for the first 30-35 minutes, just solidify Gohan as not just the main character but the only character. Make the audience forget that the film will be about anything but Gohan.
•Gohan gathers his courage and overcomes a big pinch, thus ending the film's first act. The final shot is Piccolo looking down on Gohan, inner monologuing about how the real Hell will now begin as he readies to train him personally.
•For the second act we open up with Gokuu wheezing and puffing as he jobs down the Serpentine Road, silent shots playing over his talking-aloud-to-himself about how the Serpentine Road really is as long as Enma-daiou and God said it was. This is a quick, thirty-second way to get us caught up with Gokuu. By 36-37 minutes into the film Gokuu has arrived at the end of the Serpentine Road. Boom.

Anyway, that's just super rough ideas. Hell, we could just not show the scenes of Gokuu and the others training at all and focus entirely on the story from Gohan's POV for an entire 80-100 minute film if we like.

[Anonymous Friend]

Birds of Prey is so cool because it features all thes different types of women being badass and it's not really something you get to see too often, especially without misogyny inexplicably present. While I do think that it's a bit overplayed to keep focusing on 'getting away from The Joker' as a theme for Harley in the film I do like that the film frames her as capable of starting a new life, at least. There's still that underlying theme of how men control women's lives, though, but at least in this case it is a theme being explored by women at the helm and not just a cis man masturbating to the concept of being a male feminist.

We've been getting badass women since the 70s and probably earlier. And they've been extremely popular with men and women. Heck, Dragonball give us three of them in Bulma, Chi-Chi and Videl.

Also, men control women's lives? You do realise that almost every male on this planet simps for at least one woman?

Cis men/the patriarchy do[es], indeed, historically enforce their will over women through politics, media, society and family structures. Hell, men right now are trying to take away my right to exist and have human rights and healthcare.

Like, hi, woman who #LivesInASociety here. Okay, that sounds sarcastic but you get the point. I'm well aware that cool men exist. In fact, I'm friends with many cool guys! That doesn't mean that woman don't ultimately play second fiddle to cis men on this planet. This is a big part of why it's such a pain in the ass to get media created by and for women. Or women having any autonomy over their bodies.

Sorry, not able to put a lot of energy into this reply. I'm busy with stuff and health issues.

While men do carry the "showy" power, for the most part. Women have historically had that "hidden" power. Not saying every man does this. But we are generally surrounded by women we are desparate for their love and approval. Mothers, wifes, daughters. With the terms Daddy's Little Girl and Mama's Boy both indictating a female's influence over a male. Then there things like chilvary where men are supposed to put a woman's well being ahead of there own. And that comes from the idea that because men have that outward power, they should use it caringly.

And sure, plenty of societies "keep women down". I don't know too much about how they balance that with how they care for their women. Or at least I hope there is some sort of consideration to caring for them.