TBMx wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:54 amVegeta's past was only connected because Beerus said Vegeta was holding onto that guilt which prevents him from giving into a destructive nature.
Vegeta's past runs through the whole arc so far, given the questions of Destruction, starting again and reinventing oneself from scratch and not being simply constrained by the past, and the fact that he's one of the last Saiyans fighting the last Cerealian on a planet that his Ape Monster compatriots destroyed, and (if the image is real) he's activating a transformation that evokes those various ideas - the primal Saiyan aspects and their inherent destructiveness, the Divine Power he seeks to challenge his main rival, the concepts of past and regression, and the notion of Destruction. There's plenty of thematic connection there, so it's not obviously inconsistent at all, in my opinion.
TBMx wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:54 amThat doesn't mean it should literally mutate his brow and remove his eyebrows like a cave man. What even is that and why is that a thing? It just makes it look brutish and ugly
His brow isn't 'mutated', he simply lacks eyebrows - like SSj3. Not liking it on an aesthetic level is fine, but there's no need to overstate your case for the sake of communicating the sentiment. But as for why he should look that way - well, why do Saiyans look ape-like generally? And why should a form evoking that (and in a relatively subtle manner at that, compared to, say, SSj4) be particularly strange or out of keeping to any observer?
TBMx wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:54 amHe's back and forth and all over the map.
But they've
both started again, which is the point of both of these forms. You've elided the new start that Ultra Instinct represents here - it emphasises different principles to the Super Saiyan forms, has completely different requirements, and Goku has had to re-train himself from scratch to attain it and wield it properly; it's not the natural next step beyond SSjB - it's a totally different thing, and so (if the image is real) is Vegeta's form.
Part of the reason Goku steps out so far beyond everyone else in Dragon Ball is because he's willing to start again from the basics to get a better result in the end. Vegeta is doing the same, but with different Divine principles and in a different direction (which he's been trying to find since Chapter 40). Just because it's different to what he's done before doesn't make it incoherent. Goku's a Martial Artist first and foremost, and is training in an Ultimate Martial Arts technique, which is what he's always been about, since his first scenes in Dragon Ball. Vegeta is a Saiyan Warrior first and foremost, and is training in an Ultimate Destructive technique, which is what his people have always been about.
All seems to make sense, to me
.
Great. Good for you. It doesn't make sense to me. Every mentor in Goku's entire life was pushing him toward UI. It's the culmination of his life's teachings and the result of his 4 years training with Whis. Whis said ever since RoF that he was teaching Goku and Vegeta UI.
Vegeta's form is the result of a couple of weeks blowing up logs and rocks. He alone is starting over with a new discipline.
Beerus literally tells Vegeta to wield Destruction, he must STOP being trapped by the past and LET GO of stray thoughts and to no longer see his people's destruction as destiny and to just see it as a random event. He even tells Vegeta he must destroy and remake himself. The old Vegeta was obcessed about his Saiyan pride, heritage, and status. Those were his defining traits.
Everything Beerus is saying is talking about detaching himself from his Saiyan baggage, yet these themes somehow change his face to look more saiyan/ape like when Hakai isn't even a Saiyan power, the forms a god power like UI.
Finally you can talk about themes all you like, but Broly LITERALLY channelled the great ape into his base form and his face didn't grow more ape like or change beyond his eyes aka his iris. So chanelling Hakai energy makes you more Saiyan looking then literally channelling the Great Ape itself?
Come on.
