Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

[Aim]

Political correctness is a cancer that has been trying to get into anime and manga for a long time, these people completely don't understand Toriyama's humor or the atmosphere of the series, they try to fight something they don't know.

“Political Correctness” is another way of saying “I want to be able to do and say anything and not face consequences for it”.

Political correctness is a way of speech that involves using euphemistic alternatives to phrases that are merely perceived to be offensive; all it does is sugarcoat touchy topics and make one look patronizing.
With that said, DBS being pulled off is not even a case of Political Correctness, as much it is a case of removing negative influences from children.

0-0 You can describe the actual definition but it doesn’t mean people are going to go by it, like all you have to do it believe poc deserve rights to be labelled a Marxist.

[PurestEvil]

0-0 You can describe the actual definition but it doesn’t mean people are going to go by it, like all you have to do it believe poc deserve rights to be labelled a Marxist.

Indeed, people always abuse labels to advance their political agendas or feel good about themselves.

[Aim]

Political correctness is a cancer that has been trying to get into anime and manga for a long time, these people completely don't understand Toriyama's humor or the atmosphere of the series, they try to fight something they don't know.

“Political Correctness” is another way of saying “I want to be able to do and say anything and not face consequences for it”.

So why should Toriyama's work suffer consequences for its humor?
So many years of publishing manga and releasing anime, and it's only the 21st century that makes this some big issue that supposedly demoralizes children.

I held this view however, it was put into perspective for me by someone on this forum.

Muten Roshi sexually harasses women and constantly acts out in extremely inappropriate ways, going as far as to allude to what I considered would have gone as far as possibly rape in Super (in regards to Yurin). Roshi is a character that is looked up to despite these major flaws by main characters, not once is he called out for it by other male members of the cast and does not at all set a good precedent to what are presumed to be young children. As it is Japan has an issue, in fact the whole world does when it comes to men not being able to keep their hands to themselves.

Your argument seems to be that because it was okay back then it should be okay now. Yes, the 21st century act knowledges there’s issues in our society, and it’s inappropriate to have main characters laugh such behaviour off.

[JulieYBM]

There's a time and place for Roushi's bullshit and it isn't a comic or cartoon for children, it's in the hentai comics and art you masturbate. I don't understand how this is controversial and we're all suddenly out here needing to die on the hill that kids should be exposed to the Muten Roushi trying to rape Pu-erh and Yurin.

Then again, I also don't get why men send me dick picks when I tell them not to. Perhaps they just know better than a silly woman like me about what is really appropriate? :shrug:

[Ringworm128]

If a kid is so young and impressionable that they can't tell what Roshi is doing wouldn't be appropriate in real life then they shouldn't be watching Dragon Ball in the first place; lest they start punching their friends and attempting to fly.

[Alkiser]

“Political Correctness” is another way of saying “I want to be able to do and say anything and not face consequences for it”.

Dragon Ball is first and foremost a lightener, which is supposed to give fun in reading and getting to know the characters and their stories. I'm tired of finding problems everywhere in order to find something in the name of cancel culture.
Dragon Ball wasn't even originally intended for western youth, but for Japanese youth, where jokes with old perverts are the norm (hello Jirayie from Naruto and Sanjie from One Piece, although he's not an old man) in Japanese comics. Funnily enough millions of kids grew up on DB and somehow they don't molest the first woman they meet on the street, yes molestation is bad, humiliating women is bad, rape is bad, these are obvious things everyone knows about.

How is no one paying attention to Roshi's behavior? Every now and then he gets a pat or a slap from Bulma, Chichi or Eighteen, even Yuri slapped him for being a thug. In DB, it was never the case that Roshi was macing someone with impunity, he almost always got punched in the face for it, and it works as


So why should Toriyama's work suffer consequences for its humor?
So many years of publishing manga and releasing anime, and it's only the 21st century that makes this some big issue that supposedly demoralizes children.

I held this view however, it was put into perspective for me by someone on this forum.

Muten Roshi sexually harasses women and constantly acts out in extremely inappropriate ways, going as far as to allude to what I considered would have gone as far as possibly rape in Super (in regards to Yurin). Roshi is a character that is looked up to despite these major flaws by main characters, not once is he called out for it by other male members of the cast and does not at all set a good precedent to what are presumed to be young children. As it is Japan has an issue, in fact the whole world does when it comes to men not being able to keep their hands to themselves.

Your argument seems to be that because it was okay back then it should be okay now. Yes, the 21st century act knowledges there’s issues in our society, and it’s inappropriate to have main characters laugh such behaviour off.

[JulieYBM]

If a kid is so young and impressionable that they can't tell what Roshi is doing wouldn't be appropriate in real life then they shouldn't be watching Dragon Ball in the first place; lest they start punching their friends and attempting to fly.

Men treating women like objects to fetishize and expect sexual favors from is historically easier than punching your friends and trying to fly.

[MasenkoHA]

If a kid is so young and impressionable that they can't tell what Roshi is doing wouldn't be appropriate in real life then they shouldn't be watching Dragon Ball in the first place; lest they start punching their friends and attempting to fly.

These false equivalences are so tiresome

[Ringworm128]

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

[Shaddy]

Alkiser you seem to be quoting posts and I'm not sure if you're trying to respond to them or not, but there's nothing showing up on your posts.

So long as that's true though, listen to me;

The bottom line is this: Roshi's creepy groping shit is fucking nasty and does not need to be in the show. It's not only not funny, it casts sexual assault as at-best the harmless actions of a guy who just doesn't know better. That is not a thing that should be in a show for impressionable kids (or most people, to be honest), and sadly, it's all-over popular anime and manga (and plenty of stuff outside that, but let's keep our scope where it is).

When you have stuff like advisors to the Japanese prime minister saying they should have the right to molest women on public transport, it should be pretty clear that the media portrayal of sexual harassment and assault cannot be so cavalier as for your children's TV cartoon to depict an old man groping young women as just a funny joke that happens sometimes.

Now, is it maybe a bit excessive to pull the entire show until you've gone over the thing? Sure. But complaining about Roshi is entirely justified, and getting sweaty about "political correctness" and "cancel culture" over some women being justifiably upset about the glorified portrayal of a borderline rapist is something only suited for indoctrinated neoreactionary fools or predators wanting to see their own behavior normalized.

There is really nothing about this shit from Roshi that we needed in the 80s and 90s, and there is even less reason to keep it around now. It bears no real influence on the plot, and the effort it would take on either Toei's or Toriyama's part to tone it down from "actively assaulting his female acquaintances on a regular basis" to just "is horny and gross" is extremely minimal. The guy gets off to exercise videos, he leaves porn magazines lying around, says racy things. You can build an old pervert out of that perfectly fine, and what would we lose? The worst excuses for fanservice in the universe? Yeah, I'm not going to treat that as some big loss. It's not even a real win for the "cancel culture". Not molesting people should be the default, Dragon Ball isn't gonna suddenly be some feminist masterpiece now.

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

Nobody's saying this, and it is incredibly disingenuous of you to suggest that anyone has said this. Everyone knows art does not directly create the behavior it depicts in the consumer. What it does do is reinforce preexisting biases and normalize the culture it depicts. A person is not likely to beat a hooker with a baseball bat no matter how much GTA they play. If they hear about it, though, if they maybe even see it, they will react differently depending on how the culture they've consumed has taught them to perceive such acts. And if their treatment of that situation is "eh that's just a thing that happens", that can be incredibly damaging if they're placed in a position of power. Don't believe me? Look at how any cop treats a domestic abuse situation. Hell, look up how many cops are self-admitted domestic abusers. That didn't come from nowhere. It probably didn't come from GTA either, but the media those guys consumed throughout their lives absolutely played a part in how their mindset developed.

[Jord]

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

That. Plus, it's the parent's responsibility to keep any sense of control over what your kids watch/play. The TV (or Internet) is not a babysitter.

[JulieYBM]

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

Actually a government bureau that makes sure that my children don't see a man trying to rape women played for laughs in a children's cartoon sounds like a great idea to me. In fact, I want more government bureaus! Give me a bureau that gives me more money to spend less time working and more time with my children so that my kids don't need to see media that normalizes patriarchy, rape and other awful bullshit.

[Alkiser]

Alkiser you seem to be quoting posts and I'm not sure if you're trying to respond to them or not, but there's nothing showing up on your posts.

So long as that's true though, listen to me;

The bottom line is this: Roshi's creepy groping shit is fucking nasty and does not need to be in the show. It's not only not funny, it casts sexual assault as at-best the harmless actions of a guy who just doesn't know better. That is not a thing that should be in a show for impressionable kids (or most people, to be honest), and sadly, it's all-over popular anime and manga (and plenty of stuff outside that, but let's keep our scope where it is).

When you have stuff like advisors to the Japanese prime minister saying they should have the right to molest women on public transport, it should be pretty clear that the media portrayal of sexual harassment and assault cannot be so cavalier as for your children's TV cartoon to depict an old man groping young women as just a funny joke that happens sometimes.

Now, is it maybe a bit excessive to pull the entire show until you've gone over the thing? Sure. But complaining about Roshi is entirely justified, and getting sweaty about "political correctness" and "cancel culture" over some women being justifiably upset about the glorified portrayal of a borderline rapist is something only suited for indoctrinated neoreactionary fools or predators wanting to see their own behavior normalized.

There is really nothing about this shit from Roshi that we needed in the 80s and 90s, and there is even less reason to keep it around now. It bears no real influence on the plot, and the effort it would take on either Toei's or Toriyama's part to tone it down from "actively assaulting his female acquaintances on a regular basis" to just "is horny and gross" is extremely minimal. The guy gets off to exercise videos, he leaves porn magazines lying around, says racy things. You can build an old pervert out of that perfectly fine, and what would we lose? The worst excuses for fanservice in the universe? Yeah, I'm not going to treat that as some big loss. It's not even a real win for the "cancel culture". Not molesting people should be the default, Dragon Ball isn't gonna suddenly be some feminist masterpiece now.

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

Nobody's saying this, and it is incredibly disingenuous of you to suggest that anyone has said this. Everyone knows art does not directly create the behavior it depicts in the consumer. What it does do is reinforce preexisting biases and normalize the culture it depicts. A person is not likely to beat a hooker with a baseball bat no matter how much GTA they play. If they hear about it, though, if they maybe even see it, they will react differently depending on how the culture they've consumed has taught them to perceive such acts. And if their treatment of that situation is "eh that's just a thing that happens", that can be incredibly damaging if they're placed in a position of power. Don't believe me? Look at how any cop treats a domestic abuse situation. Hell, look up how many cops are self-admitted domestic abusers. That didn't come from nowhere. It probably didn't come from GTA either, but the media those guys consumed throughout their lives absolutely played a part in how their mindset developed.

That was my answer
Dragon Ball is first and foremost a lightener, which is supposed to give fun in reading and getting to know the characters and their stories. I'm tired of finding problems everywhere in order to find something in the name of cancel culture.
Dragon Ball wasn't even originally intended for western youth, but for Japanese youth, where jokes with old perverts are the norm (hello Jirayie from Naruto and Sanjie from One Piece, although he's not an old man) in Japanese comics. Funnily enough millions of kids grew up on DB and somehow they don't molest the first woman they meet on the street, yes molestation is bad, humiliating women is bad, rape is bad, these are obvious things everyone knows about.

How is no one paying attention to Roshi's behavior? Every now and then he gets a pat or a slap from Bulma, Chichi or Eighteen, even Yuri slapped him for being a thug. In DB, it was never the case that Roshi was macing someone with impunity, he almost always got punched in the face or any other part of the body.

[Ringworm128]

Nobody's saying this, and it is incredibly disingenuous of you to suggest that anyone has said this. Everyone knows art does not directly create the behavior it depicts in the consumer. What it does do is reinforce preexisting biases and normalize the culture it depicts. A person is not likely to beat a hooker with a baseball bat no matter how much GTA they play. If they hear about it, though, if they maybe even see it, they will react differently depending on how the culture they've consumed has taught them to perceive such acts. And if their treatment of that situation is "eh that's just a thing that happens", that can be incredibly damaging if they're placed in a position of power. Don't believe me? Look at how any cop treats a domestic abuse situation. Hell, look up how many cops are self-admitted domestic abusers. That didn't come from nowhere. It probably didn't come from GTA either, but the media those guys consumed throughout their lives absolutely played a part in how their mindset developed.

You're basically saying "I'm not saying saying "fiction affects reality" but fiction affects reality." Since when has anyone ever heard about someone being beaten to death and thought "Oh yeah totally normal thing that happens?" The cop example doesn't make any sense either. Someone being a domestic abuser would have a ton of factors, such as their upbringing, never learning to control temper, drinking problems etc, not what cartoons they watched as a kid.

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

Actually a government bureau that makes sure that my children don't see a man trying to rape women played for laughs in a children's cartoon sounds like a great idea to me. In fact, I want more government bureaus! Give me a bureau that gives me more money to spend less time working and more time with my children so that my kids don't need to see media that normalizes patriarchy, rape and other awful bullshit.

A government agency determining what the public can and can't watch is 100% a bad thing and could and would be used to edit/ban content you do approve of/want. You already have the power to determine what your kids are exposed to on TV, it's called a remote.

[Alkiser]

Alkiser you seem to be quoting posts and I'm not sure if you're trying to respond to them or not, but there's nothing showing up on your posts.

So long as that's true though, listen to me;

The bottom line is this: Roshi's creepy groping shit is fucking nasty and does not need to be in the show. It's not only not funny, it casts sexual assault as at-best the harmless actions of a guy who just doesn't know better. That is not a thing that should be in a show for impressionable kids (or most people, to be honest), and sadly, it's all-over popular anime and manga (and plenty of stuff outside that, but let's keep our scope where it is).

When you have stuff like advisors to the Japanese prime minister saying they should have the right to molest women on public transport, it should be pretty clear that the media portrayal of sexual harassment and assault cannot be so cavalier as for your children's TV cartoon to depict an old man groping young women as just a funny joke that happens sometimes.

Now, is it maybe a bit excessive to pull the entire show until you've gone over the thing? Sure. But complaining about Roshi is entirely justified, and getting sweaty about "political correctness" and "cancel culture" over some women being justifiably upset about the glorified portrayal of a borderline rapist is something only suited for indoctrinated neoreactionary fools or predators wanting to see their own behavior normalized.

There is really nothing about this shit from Roshi that we needed in the 80s and 90s, and there is even less reason to keep it around now. It bears no real influence on the plot, and the effort it would take on either Toei's or Toriyama's part to tone it down from "actively assaulting his female acquaintances on a regular basis" to just "is horny and gross" is extremely minimal. The guy gets off to exercise videos, he leaves porn magazines lying around, says racy things. You can build an old pervert out of that perfectly fine, and what would we lose? The worst excuses for fanservice in the universe? Yeah, I'm not going to treat that as some big loss. It's not even a real win for the "cancel culture". Not molesting people should be the default, Dragon Ball isn't gonna suddenly be some feminist masterpiece now.

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

Nobody's saying this, and it is incredibly disingenuous of you to suggest that anyone has said this. Everyone knows art does not directly create the behavior it depicts in the consumer. What it does do is reinforce preexisting biases and normalize the culture it depicts. A person is not likely to beat a hooker with a baseball bat no matter how much GTA they play. If they hear about it, though, if they maybe even see it, they will react differently depending on how the culture they've consumed has taught them to perceive such acts. And if their treatment of that situation is "eh that's just a thing that happens", that can be incredibly damaging if they're placed in a position of power. Don't believe me? Look at how any cop treats a domestic abuse situation. Hell, look up how many cops are self-admitted domestic abusers. That didn't come from nowhere. It probably didn't come from GTA either, but the media those guys consumed throughout their lives absolutely played a part in how their mindset developed.

People like Roshi for being a charismatic, smart and funny master of the main character. His whole perverted personality is not about praising molestation but showing how an old pervert gets punched in the snout by women for being a pervert.

[JulieYBM]

Nobody's saying this, and it is incredibly disingenuous of you to suggest that anyone has said this. Everyone knows art does not directly create the behavior it depicts in the consumer. What it does do is reinforce preexisting biases and normalize the culture it depicts. A person is not likely to beat a hooker with a baseball bat no matter how much GTA they play. If they hear about it, though, if they maybe even see it, they will react differently depending on how the culture they've consumed has taught them to perceive such acts. And if their treatment of that situation is "eh that's just a thing that happens", that can be incredibly damaging if they're placed in a position of power. Don't believe me? Look at how any cop treats a domestic abuse situation. Hell, look up how many cops are self-admitted domestic abusers. That didn't come from nowhere. It probably didn't come from GTA either, but the media those guys consumed throughout their lives absolutely played a part in how their mindset developed.

You're basically saying "I'm not saying saying "fiction affects reality" but fiction affects reality." Since when has anyone ever heard about someone being beaten to death and thought "Oh yeah totally normal thing that happens?" The cop example doesn't make any sense either. Someone being a domestic abuser would have a ton of factors, such as their upbringing, never learning to control temper, drinking problems etc, not what cartoons they watched as a kid.

"Media is a reflection of society's views and affects how we see ourselves." -- Every trans woman ever.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Alkiser you seem to be quoting posts and I'm not sure if you're trying to respond to them or not, but there's nothing showing up on your posts.

So long as that's true though, listen to me;

The bottom line is this: Roshi's creepy groping shit is fucking nasty and does not need to be in the show. It's not only not funny, it casts sexual assault as at-best the harmless actions of a guy who just doesn't know better. That is not a thing that should be in a show for impressionable kids (or most people, to be honest), and sadly, it's all-over popular anime and manga (and plenty of stuff outside that, but let's keep our scope where it is).

When you have stuff like advisors to the Japanese prime minister saying they should have the right to molest women on public transport, it should be pretty clear that the media portrayal of sexual harassment and assault cannot be so cavalier as for your children's TV cartoon to depict an old man groping young women as just a funny joke that happens sometimes.

Now, is it maybe a bit excessive to pull the entire show until you've gone over the thing? Sure. But complaining about Roshi is entirely justified, and getting sweaty about "political correctness" and "cancel culture" over some women being justifiably upset about the glorified portrayal of a borderline rapist is something only suited for indoctrinated neoreactionary fools or predators wanting to see their own behavior normalized.

There is really nothing about this shit from Roshi that we needed in the 80s and 90s, and there is even less reason to keep it around now. It bears no real influence on the plot, and the effort it would take on either Toei's or Toriyama's part to tone it down from "actively assaulting his female acquaintances on a regular basis" to just "is horny and gross" is extremely minimal. The guy gets off to exercise videos, he leaves porn magazines lying around, says racy things. You can build an old pervert out of that perfectly fine, and what would we lose? The worst excuses for fanservice in the universe? Yeah, I'm not going to treat that as some big loss. It's not even a real win for the "cancel culture". Not molesting people should be the default, Dragon Ball isn't gonna suddenly be some feminist masterpiece now.

My point is "What if kids start copying Roshi? is a stupid argument" that's just a rehash of "GTA will make kids into murderers" I saw tons of mature shit as a kid and I never copied any of it. Any issues should be between the parents and the network. Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money on complaining about cartoons.

Nobody's saying this, and it is incredibly disingenuous of you to suggest that anyone has said this. Everyone knows art does not directly create the behavior it depicts in the consumer. What it does do is reinforce preexisting biases and normalize the culture it depicts. A person is not likely to beat a hooker with a baseball bat no matter how much GTA they play. If they hear about it, though, if they maybe even see it, they will react differently depending on how the culture they've consumed has taught them to perceive such acts. And if their treatment of that situation is "eh that's just a thing that happens", that can be incredibly damaging if they're placed in a position of power. Don't believe me? Look at how any cop treats a domestic abuse situation. Hell, look up how many cops are self-admitted domestic abusers. That didn't come from nowhere. It probably didn't come from GTA either, but the media those guys consumed throughout their lives absolutely played a part in how their mindset developed.

That was my answer
Dragon Ball is first and foremost a lightener, which is supposed to give fun in reading and getting to know the characters and their stories. I'm tired of finding problems everywhere in order to find something in the name of cancel culture.
Dragon Ball wasn't even originally intended for western youth, but for Japanese youth, where jokes with old perverts are the norm (hello Jirayie from Naruto and Sanjie from One Piece, although he's not an old man) in Japanese comics. Funnily enough millions of kids grew up on DB and somehow they don't molest the first woman they meet on the street, yes molestation is bad, humiliating women is bad, rape is bad, these are obvious things everyone knows about.

How is no one paying attention to Roshi's behavior? Every now and then he gets a pat or a slap from Bulma, Chichi or Eighteen, even Yuri slapped him for being a thug. In DB, it was never the case that Roshi was macing someone with impunity, he almost always got punched in the face or any other part of the body.

The complaint is that he never suffers any serious consequences that would discourage him from doing it again. It's always played for laughs, and all he gets is the equivalent of a slap on the wrist.

I once suggested that maybe there should be a scene where he tries to grope a powerful female villain, and she seriously hurts or even kills him for it, and after he's inevitably brought back to life, even his friends agree that he kind of brought it on himself, as something like that was bound to happen sooner or later if he kept up his behavior.

[Ringworm128]

Media is made by individuals not some collective hivemind. You could take any story where there's a situation the complete opposite of Roshi and say "This is a reflection of societies views"

The statement also implies that anything anyone writes must be what they're actual beliefs/thoughts are, which almost anyone who's ever written or fantasized about anything can tell you is simply untrue.

[JulieYBM]

Media is made by individuals not some collective hivemind. You could take any story where there's a situation the complete opposite of Roshi and say "This is a reflection of societies views"

The statement also implies that anything anyone writes must be what they're actual beliefs/thoughts are, which almost anyone who's ever wrote or fantasized about anything can tell you is simply untrue.

The complaint is that he never suffers any serious consequences that would discourage him from doing it again. It's always played for laughs, and all he gets is the equivalent of a slap on the wrist.

I once suggested that maybe there should be a scene where he tries to grope a powerful female villain, and she seriously hurts or even kills him for it, and after he's inevitably brought back to life, even his friends agree that he kind of brought it on himself, as something like that was bound to happen sooner or later if he kept up his behavior.

It's a running gag. Do you expect an episode where Goku, Krillin and Piccolo have an intervention for Roshi?

You can say that you don't believe it but those words don't mean shit when you still do it, especially outside of a self-aware context.

Having the Muten Roushi do the shit he does in the manner he does in children's media is worthy of criticism.

There's a context for this shit and it ain't a Sunday morning kids' cartoon.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I believe the point is that it shouldn't be a gag, as lots of people in real life have the attitude that it's a normal and not so serious thing.