Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Fionordequester wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:48 pm
Judging the dub based on Season 3 is like judging James Marsters for his drunken rants performance in Xenoverse 2. Both were in their "we don't know what we're doing" phase, and drastically improved (not just marginally) almost immediately after. Neither are fair comparisons to what ended up being the baseline.
Even if the 4Kids dub had lasted long enough to "improve", it likely would only get to the level of where the Z dub was at the end of the Buu arc at best (more accurate to the original script than in the past, but still plenty inaccurate at times), since I doubt 4Kids would have cared enough to make the show more faithful to the original.
I say the Z dub only marginally improved because it still has that "we don't give a shit about being faithful to the original version" foundation, an issue that was never truly fixed. A substantively improved dub would be more faithful by default instead of this weird "we can be more faithful but will still partake in unnecessary creative liberties when we feel like it" state the Z dub ended in.
Adamant wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:34 pm
The only actual difference between the two is that 4Kids One Piece ended and got replaced before its fans got old enough to go on the Internet and start fights about how much 4Kids saved One Piece and how even Oda watches it in English because the Japanese version is so terrible.
Exactly. They're the same type of bad dub. One just lasted long enough to marginally improve, the other did not.
I don't know why but this strikes me as ironic, given that One Piece has reached 1000 episodes.
"Don't take pleasure in destruction!" / "I will not let you destroy my world!"
A true hero goes beyond not the limits of power, but the limits that divide countries and people.
In Japan. Doraemon is even more famous and has more episodes in Japan but its virtually unknown in the USA.
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
Dragon Ball succeeded where One Piece failed largely in part due to the fact that One Piece just isn't very well produced early on in the series. Meanwhile, the animation for Dragon Ball Z was much better and set itself apart from other cartoons airing in the US at the time the series rose to fame in the mainstream market. Furthermore, 4Kids had to contend with a bunch of angry, high-energy bitchy teenage girls named Julie complaining about edits made to their anime on forums as early as 2003.
That is to say, I don't think the localization was an issue at all.
DragonBallFoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:02 pm
I don't know why but this strikes me as ironic, given that One Piece has reached 1000 episodes.
4Kids only dubbed the first 143 episodes of One Piece, whereas Funimation has dubbed everything Dragon Ball-related other than Yo! Son Goku and his Friends Return, and other obscure OVAs and specials. If anything the fact that Funimation's dub of One Piece has been so we'll regarded and has currently reached episode 746 just goes to show they were a much better fit for the series all along than 4Kids.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
Another reason why One Piece didn't do well by 4kids is the lack of kids merchandise for it. Meanwhile Naruto had toys, head bands, etc being sold while both shows were airing on Toonami in the mid 2000s. DBZ also had a lot of merchandise when it was airing from 1996-2003 with fruit snacks, backpacks, action figures, coloring books, etc.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 pmFurthermore, 4Kids had to contend with a bunch of angry, high-energy bitchy teenage girls named Julie complaining about edits made to their anime on forums as early as 2003.
Aw, but Julie seemed just fine to me. If they were 4Kid's worst problem, then 4Kids had it easy.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
The difference is FUNimation pushed for Dragon Ball to be a hit while 4kids didn't even want One Piece. There's also the fact fansubs weren't as widely accessible when FUNimation first got their hands on Dragon Ball.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:10 pmFurthermore, 4Kids had to contend with a bunch of angry, high-energy bitchy teenage girls named Julie complaining about edits made to their anime on forums as early as 2003.
Aw, but Julie seemed just fine to me. If they were 4Kid's worst problem, then 4Kids had it easy.
I think people dont know this but while One Piece WAS a major contributor to 4kids' downfall, the true killer other than the lawsuit was Chaotic. Many have said that 4kids poured way too much money into that venture and it nearly killed them. Keep in mind that despite the fiasco Toei still was willing to have them handle Kai. That's when Al Kahn realized he better seek the support of the anime fanbase he once shunned. And I still wonder what would have happened had they survived until Super came along.
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
Ok ok give a subcontract to air it. But still. They were willing to give them the time of day which shows they still had a working relationship.
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
DragonBallFoodie wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:02 pm
I don't know why but this strikes me as ironic, given that One Piece has reached 1000 episodes.
Like guy above said with things in Japan, and can't believe I looked at this again, but here's an example of 4Kids not doing well and Funimation giving excellence.
Considering One Piece's pace, I think it is important to remember that on the Box, CN and Adult Swim Toonami at the time you were only getting 1 episode a week compared to DBZ's 4 to 5. Even today as a fan I can't really ever seeing myself watching OP week to week. Frankly it really not even fair to compare peak Toonami to its once a week version.
Hiei: "So tell me - what's it like living in a constant haze of Stupidity?"
Hiei: "I know as much about games as I do puppies and huggs....Wake me up for the end of world"
Welcome to Super Vegeta's Big Bang Attack.... Welcome to Oblivion!!!
Remember "When things get weird, skip the last saga"-Chris Sabat
TheMajinRedComet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:12 pm
Considering One Piece's pace, I think it is important to remember that on the Box, CN and Adult Swim Toonami at the time you were only getting 1 episode a week compared to DBZ's 4 to 5. Even today as a fan I can't really ever seeing myself watching OP week to week. Frankly it really not even fair to compare peak Toonami to its once a week version.
Yeah, the pacing is also a thing. Toonami was pooping out five episodes a week, which was much more befitting of the serialized nature of both cartoons. Furthermore, One Piece was competing with far more sources for kids' attention (and still does!)
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:58 pm
Yeah, the pacing is also a thing. Toonami was pooping out five episodes a week, which was much more befitting of the serialized nature of both cartoons.
This is a really, really solid point. Speaking as someone *glued* to Toonami during the DB & Z run, I can say with confidence that helped keep my attention significantly. I don't know if I would have gotten nearly as obsessed if the series only aired new episodes once a week--in fact, that's probably part of why I fell off with GT, which if I recall only aired new episodes on Fridays and then went to the Saturday Toonami line-up.
[quote="Brakus"]For all the flack that FUNimation gets on this forum for their quote about DBZ, there's some modicum of truth to it: a 9-year-old is born every day. Or in some cases, "reborn". DBZ may be a kids' show, but it's been so close to so many hearts all over Japan, America, and quite possibly, even the world.[/quote]
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:58 pm
Yeah, the pacing is also a thing. Toonami was pooping out five episodes a week, which was much more befitting of the serialized nature of both cartoons.
This is a really, really solid point. Speaking as someone *glued* to Toonami during the DB & Z run, I can say with confidence that helped keep my attention significantly. I don't know if I would have gotten nearly as obsessed if the series only aired new episodes once a week--in fact, that's probably part of why I fell off with GT, which if I recall only aired new episodes on Fridays and then went to the Saturday Toonami line-up.
Holy shit bkev, I haven't seen a post from you in lile seven years?! O.o
But yeah, I think that continuity really sold the strength of the fun of viewing and following along.