Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 113 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.
Apologies for the late posting. KBABZ and I had some stuff to figure out about trivia and then I went to sleep.
Anyway, we're running one last poll this week! This time, it's to decide whether GT episode 64 will be on its own or in the same week as Path to Power.
Decide now: [Poll concluded; GT 64 will be in the same week as Path to Power]
Episode 498 - Power of 6,000 Degrees Celsius! The Warrior of the Sun(GT episode 54) Ocean dub title: The Power of 6000 Degrees Centigrade: The Sun Warrior!
Funimation dub title: The Four-Star Dragon
Originally aired 6th of August 1997
Scenario by: Shinobu Ōito
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Noboru Koizumi
Pan, the 9-year-old that she is, takes a nap while the adults have a big fight.
Trivia:
Spoiler:
The obvious assumption to make is that the city was attacked by the Four-Star Dragon and deserted as a result. The question is, since we later discover he's quite honourable, was the city perhaps laid waste to by the One or Three-Star Dragons instead? The Four-Star Dragon knows both of those other two dragons, after all.
It's also possible the city was ravaged by the earthquakes the negative energy caused, as well as the chaos of the Super 17 arc, and became deserted because of that.
As a kid, Robo found it mildly odd that a male-identifying dragon gave his name in the Blue Water dub as "Sue Shenron". Of course, his name is actually Su Shinron, or Si Xing Long (which is pronounced as Su Shing Long), which is totally different, I'm sure.
Weirdly, the Four-Star Dragon has a sense of honour and a measure of compassion; it's not clear why, but many have theorised it's because the wish that created him was a very selfish one, while the wishes that created the more evil dragons were more selfless, meaning the dragons are sort of the opposite of the intent of their wishes.
Even Oolong's especially frivolous wish for panties was selfless in its intent; he just needed to get in Pilaf's way and make a wish, any wish, before he could take over the world.
The Four-Star Dragon is the last to explain which wish created the negative energy that birthed him. The production team did have wishes in mind for the other two though, as we will get into when they each show up (scroll down a bit if you're impatient, they're both this week, one of them is this very episode ).
The Three-Star Dragon's wish isn't revealed in dialogue, but there are clues to what it might be:
First, in Episode 48 we're shown a montage of all the wishes made over the years: two of them depict Freeza and Boo, presumably referring to reviving those killed by Freeza and having Earth forget about Boo.
Second, the GT Perfect Files (GT's Daizenshuu equivalent) pairs the remaining two Dragons with these same images, the Three-Star Dragon being paired with Boo's image.
There are two other Shen Long wishes that remain uncredited: reviving those killed by Daimao, and removing the bombs in 17 and 18. The former is sometimes mistakenly attributed to the Three-Star Dragon by fans, possibly due to the fact the Three and Four-Star Dragons are said to be brothers, and the Four-Star Dragon mentions in dialogue that Piccolo's wish for youth is what birthed him; people assume a connection there, perhaps.
As many fans have noted, the evilness of the Shadow Dragons appears to be inversely proportional to the intent of the wish that created them. For example the Four-Star Dragon was created by Daimao's wish for youth so he could rule the world, but created the friendliest Dragon (relatively speaking).
That in mind, the wishes that created the final two Dragons are rather appropriate: reviving those killed by Freeza occurred on a planet that had nothing to do with Earth, while forgetting about Boo was a selfless act of forgiveness. KBABZ in fact figured these two wishes were the ones without knowing they were revealed in the GT Perfect Files!
Golden Si Xing Long predates Golden Freeza by 18 years.
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Episode 499 - Bulma Makes Her Move! The Plan to Remodel Vegeta(GT episode 55) Ocean dub title: Vegeta's Thirst for Power!
Funimation dub title: The Heart of the Prince
Originally aired 13th of August 1997
Scenario by: Atsushi Maekawa
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama
Vegeta and Bulma get bored with GT so they rewatch some classic episodes of DBZ.
(Joke stolen from Herms)
Trivia:
Spoiler:
This episode features another of the very, very few cuts made to Ocean's dub of GT; the shot of Vegeta flying away from the balcony is cut, so we go straight from Goku and Si Xing Long doing their powerup screams to Vegeta and Bulma in the same shot as Vegeta says "I'm going!" It's possible this cut was made to the French masters that Ocean received, however there is another possibility we'll get into at the end of this episode's trivia...
This cut was present in both Toonami UK and YTV Canadian airings.
It's not clear what Vegeta is doing in the chair with the lights around it, or what Bulma hoped to achieve by putting him in it.
Ocean's dialogue in GT for the most part is excellent; not only is it faithful to the original Japanese dialogue, but it flows well in English and any censorship is weaved in naturally while still hewing close enough to the original that no meaning is really lost, just de-emphasised (the stuff about Goku being an illegitimate child in episode 2, for instance). This episode is seen as an exception by many, but the truth of it is that only one part of it goes seriously wrong; Goku's speech to Kuririn about sparing Vegeta. In fairness to Ocean, the original dialogue didn't make much sense either...
Simmons subs:
Spoiler:
Past Vegeta: D- damn it all... For me, Vegeta-sama, held to be the mightiest warrior in the universe, to end up like this... how disgraceful!
[Kuririn picks up the sword]
Past Vegeta: D- damn, My body... won't move!
Kuririn: Die!!
Goku: Hold on!
Kuririn: G- Goku!
Goku: Kuririn... Sorry about this, but let the guy live...
Kuririn: G- G- Goku? Are you...
Goku: I- I beg you... This is the only thing I'll ever ask of you. I ain't able to say this too well, but seeing him nearly dead like that, the thought came to me... "What a waste..." Next time, I'll make sure I've gained enough strength to overcome Vegeta, and defeat him... I know what I'm asking for is wrong, but I'm begging you... let me take him on by myself!
[Kuririn drops the sword]
Present Vegeta: In order that he might defeat me by his own hand, he let me get away on purpose. It was from that time on- from that time on, that the infuriating Kakarrot began to settle within me.
Ocean dub:
Spoiler:
Past Vegeta: No... I won't... let that vulgar peasant get the better of me. I'm Vegeta!... the greatest warrior in the universe!
[Krillin picks up the sword]
Past Vegeta: No! I defeated you already!
Krillin: [shouts]
Goku: No Krillin, stop!
Krillin: Huh? But Goku...
Goku: No! Sorry Krillin, but it can't end like this! I know, it's hard to understand but a Saiyan warrior lives by a code of honour.
Krillin: Yeah, you're right, I don't understand.
Goku: Please listen to me... A Saiyan warrior lives to fight and succeed in battle, he fights with honour but more importantly he chooses to die with honour as well. If you strike Vegeta with that sword, you will dishonour him in this battle here today, because his spirit will never be allowed to rest. That is why I must defeat him myself. I must train until I am strong enough to beat him on my own. It's the right thing to do! Please, Krillin! If you call me your friend, you will do this for me!
[Krillin drops the sword]
Present Vegeta: He let me go. It was so humiliating. But I realised then that he was more than just a lowly commoner; he was a true Saiyan warrior.
To prove my point, here's a comparison of the preceding flashback scenes:
Spoiler:
== Ocean ==
Past Vegeta: Let me explain something to you, peasant, we Saiyans are tested at birth for our warrior's strength. The weaker trash like yourself is sent off to conquer planets which pose no serious threat, as its inhabitants are weak. In other words you're nothing!
Goku: I wondered who I should thank for sending me to this wonderful place. But even a failure, so called, who trains hard, has the potential to become the strongest of the Saiyans.
Past Vegeta: [laughs] That's a good one, peasant. But you won't be around long enough to find out.
Present Vegeta: As the first battle between Kakarot and I began, I knew that he was no match for me with my superior royal training. I surpassed the clown in every respect, but what I didn't know, what I couldn't have known, was that it was all about to change...
Goku: Hey, not bad, you're not even at full power and yet your speed and technique are far superior to mine. You ready for more?
Past Vegeta: Say the word. There's nothing you can dish out that I can't take.
Goku: Oh really? Try this then...
[fighting]
Past Vegeta: If that's the best you've got, you're an embarrassment to the Saiyan race.
Goku: I've got to hold on, just a little longer...
[screaming then fighting]
Present Vegeta: I was furious. Kakarot's power was increasing but mine remained the same!
Past Vegeta: [screams] Let's see how you deal with real power! And even if you survive, the earth will be blown to bits!
Goku: Bring it on, momma's boy! [powerup noises] Here's a little something I've been workin' on! I hope you like it... Kaaa meeee... Haaa....
Past Vegeta: [screaming] You've got no chance!
Goku: Meee....
Past Vegeta: Say goodbye to your precious little planet, peasant! [Shouts]
Goku: HAAAAAA!! [screaming]
Past Vegeta: How can this be? His power is equal to my own!
[Screaming and grunting]
Goku: Have some more! Four times power!
[Screaming]
Past Vegeta: This can't be happening! [Screaming]
== Simmons subs ==
Past Vegeta: Saiyans have their warrior ratings examined right after they are born. When they do, the scum with lower ratings, such as yourself, are sent off to planets that do not have terribly formidable opponents. In other words... You were a left-behind!
Goku: And as a result, I was sent to Earth here? I should be thankful. But what's more... Even a left-behind might be able to overcome an elite, if he tries desperately enough.
Past Vegeta: [laughs] An amusing joke. Now then, allow me to show you a barrior that you cannot overcome, no matter how hard you try!
Present Vegeta: When we first fought, he was no match for me. I had it over him in every way.
Past Vegeta: What's the matter, Kakarrot!? You can do better than this, can't you!?
Goku: I should have expected as much... He still ain't the least bit serious, but his speed and techniques already surpass my own.
Past Vegeta: Show me what you got! Or have you already used up all of your power?
Goku: You got it. I'll show you! Kaio-ken!!
[fighting]
Past Vegeta: If that's the limit of what you've got, then I'll be greatly disappointed!
Goku: May my body withstand this! Times three... Kaio-ken!!
Past Vegeta: What!?
[fighting]
Present Vegeta: However, in the end, I was unable to defeat Kakarrot.
Past Vegeta: [screams] Dodge this, if you can! But even if you survive, the Earth will be blown to bits!
Goku: I have to risk it! [powerup noises] A times three Kaio-ken... Kamehame-Ha! Ka... Me... ha...
Past Vegeta: There's no way you can stop my Gyallic Ho blast!
Goku: me...
Past Vegeta: Let you and the Earth together become space dust!! [Shouts]
Goku: Ha!!
Past Vegeta: W- what!? It's just like my Gyallic Ho blast!
[grunting]
Goku: Kaio-ken... times four!!
[screaming]
Weirdly, the full next-episode preview at the end of GT episode 55 is included in the Ocean dub, as the end of the episode's main contents.
It's possible this was accidentally included in Ocean's video master for dubbing and its inclusion meant the episode overran, which could explain why they made a very tiny cut to the opening scene of the episode.
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Episode 500 - After the Sun, Comes Extreme Cold! The Sibling Dragons of Fire and Ice(GT episode 56) Ocean dub title: The Fire and Ice Dragon Brothers!
Funimation dub title: The Three-Star Dragon
Originally aired 20th of August 1997
Scenario by: Atsushi Maekawa
Episode director: Kazuhito Kikuchi
Animation supervisor: Takeo Ide
Goku continues to punch his grandpa's remaining ball until he's interrupted by someone walking in on them.
Trivia:
Spoiler:
This is the 500th episode of Dragon Ball. If we were watching Kai and Super as well, we would still have 306 to go (plus four movies). That's 15 more episodes than there ever were of Z.
The music cue that plays when the Four-Star Dragon is walking through the dark corridors looking for Goku is most likely an editing error, judging simply by how grossly unfitting it is and how good the Tokunaga music usually is in GT.
The flashback to the Four-Star Dragon doing no serious harm to Pan may seem unnecessary, but remember, this episode aired two weeks after that!
The Three-Star Dragon turns up on the scene with a shiny, metallic look to him, similar to the Four-Star Dragon after transforming into his golden form. We did briefly see him untransformed in episode 54, standing over Pan, but it appears he transformed before showing up to interrupt Goku's fight with the Four-Star Dragon.
It's not clear how precisely the two dragons can be brothers when they were both born from the negative energy of wishes made over the years (and largely unrelated wishes, at that). Even Goku is confused.
Interestingly, the Four-Star Dragon refers to the Three-Star Dragon as being his older brother (and the Three-Star Dragon refers to the other as his younger brother), even though Piccolo's wish to be young and strong again was long before the wish to remove everyone's memories of Boo.
It's possible this all ties back to the Four-Star Dragon being born from a wish made by and about Piccolo; Piccolo Daimao was a truly evil guy with a good counterpart, for one. For another, the two of them bear a lot of similarities to the two versions of Piccolo; the Four-Star Dragon having a demeanor and values similar to the Piccolo who had once called himself Piccolo Jr., while the Three-Star Dragon resembles Piccolo Daimao in his sadistic and cruel behaviour. But, perhaps this is all just a coincidence.
The comparison to Piccolo Daimao may not be as apt as comparing him to Freeza, which is funny given Freeza's ice-themed name...
In the Ocean dub, the Four-Star Dragon says the ice age is over; this is not technically true, the ice age is technically ongoing until the ice caps melt. If the ice age was over, it would be a very bad time for all involved.
This is the second time Goku has been frozen solid in GT.
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Episode 501 - Overwhelming Strength!! The Dragon that Rules the Evil Dragons(GT episode 57) Ocean dub title: Enter the One-Starred Dragon!
Funimation dub title: The One-Star Dragon
Originally aired 3rd of September 1997
Scenario by: Atsushi Maekawa
Episode director: Takahiro Imamura
Animation supervisor: Kazuya Hisada
Goku once again fights someone associated with coldness.
The Three-Star Dragon offers to give up his Dragon Ball without dying, an idea the Four-Star Dragon endorses. It's not clear how this would have shaken out if he'd stuck by his offer, but it does back up what the Seven-Star Dragon said about him being unique in that the Dragon Ball itself is his body; presumably any of the others could have continued to survive if they agreed to give up their Dragon Ball to Goku.
Precisely why the Dragon doesn't want to give up the Dragon Ball isn't totally clear; perhaps he gets some of his strength from it. Perhaps that's why the Four-Star Dragon didn't simply give up his ball at any point in the past couple of episodes.
Goku notes that he can sense the Three-Star Dragon's Ki, something he noted two episodes ago he couldn't do for the Four-Star Dragon.
Goku uses the Dragon Fist in this episode for the only time in a mainline Dragon Ball work; outside of this, it has only ever been used in Z movie 13 and video games. (Misunderstanding; I didn't think of its use in the Super 17 arc as being this technique, and I'd completely forgotten it's also used in episode 59. My bad!)
It's not clear where the Four-Star Dragon got the medicine to help Goku's eyes.
The One-Star Dragon's wish isn't revealed in dialogue, but as we explained for the Three-Star Dragon, the images shown in the montage in GT episode 48 as well as the GT Perfect Files point to his wish being the one to make everyone on Earth forget about Boo.
It's possible the One-Star Dragon could have found and tried to kill Goku at various points before this, but it's actually quite smart of him to have waited until all the other Dragon Balls were together.
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Episode 502 - The Counterattack Begins!! Surpass Super Saiyan 4(GT episode 58) Ocean dub title: Ii Shenron Claims the Power of Seven!
Funimation dub title: Shadow Dragons Unite
Originally aired 10th of September 1997
Scenario by: Shinobu Ōito
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama
Ah fuck, it's another Uchiyama episode. And it's a pretty good episode too! Goddammit. Well, at least it's not a super fighting-heavy one.
Trivia:
Spoiler:
At one stage of writing, there was going to be a scene of Gohan deciding to put on the fighting gi again. It was decided that there wasn't time to fit it into any episodes, though.
The circle of Super Saiyans restoring Goku's power is (just as it was the last time they did something similar) very similar to what would eventually end up being the Super Saiyan God ritual in Battle of Gods.
It's during this episode, when Yi Xing Long eats the Dragon Balls, that Funimation decided to rename him to Omega Shenron and change the brilliant Bob Carter's voicework out for Chris Sabat under a voice filter.
No offence to Chris Sabat intended (he's, frankly, an awesome person and if I ever met him in person I'd wish him nothing but the best), but Bob Carter was really good for the, what, two episodes they used him?... Very sad that he was dropped after that.
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____
Trivia written by Robo and KBABZ. Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
There's a change in tone, sorta, with these episodes. Less funny, more threatening, and I love it.
I do not like the initial design of Suu Shinron, that red doesn't work for me, he looks like a kettle left on the stove for way too long. His golden form is amazing, on the other hand. I wonder if San Shinron also had a more boring and pale blue-ish design, too, before looking like a shinny diamond.
Goku being stronger but slower than Suu is a nice touch, he cannot get ahold of him but when he does so, he'll fuck him up. The thing is he just can't, and ends up coming up with a plan based on the environment. Goku is having the time of his life, he is sparing the dragon so that he can keep on fighting him.
It's odd to have a dragon that is a good guy, I mean, how does he feel about consuming the world, etc? his death needs to happen in order to restore the DBs, so from a morally standpoint, is he willing to help against the other dragons? he helped Goku against his brother, and then against Omega. He is like a double agent.
I also like that the fight takes place in what it seems like a ghost town, probably struck by some earthquake or something. It beats the usual barren land Z had all of its fights on.
San being a fucking asshole also is great, the exact opposite of Suu. Freezing Goku got a little old for me, specially since he frozed him like twice. San really tells Suu what to do, huh? And, boy is the Ryuken amazing with the huge wheel on the background.
Vegeta's episode is as boring as it gets. Basically a Z re-run, by Uchiyama. I was thirsty for more Son vs Suu.
Ih Shinron hands down the best antagonist of GT to me. His design is ominous, he is a muscular dragon with spikes and a moustache made out of skin. So cold and laconic, one shotting his brother-ish. And he so casually fucks SS4 up, tanking that red KHH inside the Amusement Park.
This whole mini arc takes place in some of the best scenarios of DB as a whole. A destroyed ghost town, the sewers, some streets surrounded by skycrappers, and an amusement park. A KO'd SS4 Goku hanging down from a piece of metal of a ride it's just incredible.
Weirdly, the Four-Star Dragon has a sense of honour and a measure of compassion; it's not clear why, but many have theorised it's because the wish that created him was a very selfish one, while the wishes that created the more evil dragons were more selfless, meaning the dragons are sort of the opposite of the intent of their wishes.
Since negative energy is made to balance amount of positive enrgy used it seems that the most selfish wish used the least amount of positive energy and so generated the least amount of negative energy in exchange which is why Nuova wasn't as evil as other dragons.
Second, the GT Perfect Files (GT's Daizenshuu equivalent) pairs the remaining two Dragons with these same images, the Three-Star Dragon being paired with Freeza's image.
Doesn't make sense considering Xenoverse made it clear Syn Shenron (1 star) comes from Frieza related wish while Eis Shenron (3 star) comes from Buu related wish. Either Perfect Files or Xenoverse is wrong. But seeing how Frieza wish was the most selfless one and was very powerful i assume this is what caused 1 star dragon birth and i'll stick with Xenoverse with that.
Precisely why the Dragon doesn't want to give up the Dragon Ball isn't totally clear; perhaps he gets some of his strength from it. Perhaps that's why the Four-Star Dragon didn't simply give up his ball at any point in the past couple of episodes.
Since Syn/Omega was getting not only stronger by swallowing these balls, but also was getting their actual abilities, it's possible they are indeed source of their power and without them they would be mostly harmless, but still alive.
It's not clear where the Four-Star Dragon got the medicine to help Goku's eyes.
Almost seems like Eis was doing such dirty tricks before or was in fact doing it to Nuova so he was carrying some medicine just in case
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta
Weirdly, the Four-Star Dragon has a sense of honour and a measure of compassion; it's not clear why, but many have theorised it's because the wish that created him was a very selfish one, while the wishes that created the more evil dragons were more selfless, meaning the dragons are sort of the opposite of the intent of their wishes.
Since negative energy is made to balance amount of positive enrgy used it seems that the most selfish wish used the least amount of positive energy and so generated the least amount of negative energy in exchange which is why Nuova wasn't as evil as other dragons.
Second, the GT Perfect Files (GT's Daizenshuu equivalent) pairs the remaining two Dragons with these same images, the Three-Star Dragon being paired with Freeza's image.
Doesn't make sense considering Xenoverse made it clear Syn Shenron (1 star) comes from Frieza related wish while Eis Shenron (3 star) comes from Buu related wish. Either Perfect Files or Xenoverse is wrong. But seeing how Frieza wish was the most selfless one and was very powerful i assume this is what caused 1 star dragon birth and i'll stick with Xenoverse with that.
GTPF has a history of getting things wrong, but in this case I wouldn't give much credit to a videogame from 2015. It does make more sense, narratively, to have Ih connected to Freeza in some way, though.
Why not? I don't know about Perfect Files history, but Dimps has no history of getting things wrong, especially in the Xenoverse games where one can tell some degree of care was put into it. What they do is placing the destruction of Vegeta in AGE 737, which isn't necessarily wrong, merely an outdated information. Changing it would confuse a lot of people. If it makes sense as you're saying, I don't see the problem.
Last edited by Grimlock on Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
• We help! ... Hmm. Always get Autobots out of messes they get into. •
Grimlock wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:43 pm
Why not? I don't know about Perfect Files history, but Dimps has no history of getting things wrong, especially in the Xenoverse games where one can tell some degree of care was put into it. The only thing they do is placing the destruction of Vegeta in AGE 737, which isn't necessarily wrong, merely an outdated information. Changing it would confuse a lot of people. If it makes sense as you're saying, I don't see the problem.
True, I was giving GTPF credit for working side by side with GT producers, unlike Dimps, but in my post I already implied they weren’t doing so in the first place, thus getting things wrong; and having an unfounded prejudice against a videogame.
Robo4900 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:26 amNo offence to Chris Sabat intended (he's, frankly, an awesome person and if I ever met him in person I'd wish him nothing but the best), but Bob Carter was really good for the, what, two episodes they used him?... Very sad that he was dropped after that.
As someone who has met Chris Sabat, rest assured you won't be disappointed, he is a lot of fun to talk to and is always super nice to the fans.
I'm not a fan of Sabat's Yi Xing Long but I'm going to blame the voice filter rather than Sabat himself, I found it really unnecessary and distracting.
I like Noah Umholtz and Hidekatsu Shibata's performances although you could argue the former is my nostalgia speaking.
The settings of these battles are really cool. You can't say TOEI didn't try to experiment with GT aesthetically. A deserted city, including an amusement park and cloudy skies were unlike anything we've seen in previous major fights, but they at very least made these stand out.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
I don’t understand why they apparently decided that San Xi Long/Eis Shenron was born from the final wish used with the Earth Dragon Balls. Wouldn’t it have made a lot more sense for him to have been born from the wish that was used to revive Piccolo Daimao’s victims?
Goku uses the Dragon Fist in this episode for the only time in a mainline Dragon Ball work; outside of this, it has only ever been used in Z movie 13 and video games.
Nah, he uses it two other times in GT, including in episode 59.
Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:52 pm
his death needs to happen in order to restore the DBs, so from a morally standpoint, is he willing to help against the other dragons? he helped Goku against his brother, and then against Omega. He is like a double agent.
Well, he could give up the Dragon Ball. But presumably he would lose all his power and no longer be able to fight Goku.
sunsetshimmer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:14 pm
Doesn't make sense considering Xenoverse made it clear Syn Shenron (1 star) comes from Frieza related wish while Eis Shenron (3 star) comes from Buu related wish. Either Perfect Files or Xenoverse is wrong. But seeing how Frieza wish was the most selfless one and was very powerful i assume this is what caused 1 star dragon birth and i'll stick with Xenoverse with that.
Slight mix-up on KBABZ's part that I should have caught. I know which Dragons are which, KBABZ doesn't, having not watched any of these episodes, so it should be my job to make sure no mix-ups get introduced into trivia regarding this. In this instance, I wasn't as diligent as I should have been. Fixed now.
Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:31 pm
GTPF has a history of getting things wrong, but in this case I wouldn't give much credit to a videogame from 2015. It does make more sense, narratively, to have Ih connected to Freeza in some way, though.
GTPF doesn't have a history of getting things wrong. Other sources do.
The most frequently-cited problems are the Dragons' wishes and the timeskip. VegettoEX outlined a couple of years ago why these aren't problems with the Perfect Files.
The reality is the Perfect Files had extensive contributions from the production team of GT, so it's unlikely to have anything wrong.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:11 pm
I like Noah Umholtz and Hidekatsu Shibata's performances although you could argue the former is my nostalgia speaking.
Honestly, I really like both of them too. They're good!
WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:23 pm
Nah, he uses it two other times in GT, including in episode 59.
Fuck. My bad. I didn't think of the use in the Super 17 arc as being the same technique (though I probably should), and I just straight forgot about the time it showed up in episode 59 since I haven't seen that episode in years.
Fixed now.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
That Bulma and Vegeta episode wouldn't have been half as good as it was without Last House. It might be my favorite episode of the bunch. When it ain't a fight-heavy episode, the man gets the job done. DB would not be DB without Uchiyama's art style. It's classic.
Overall these episodes are better than the previous few. Once One-Star appears things get much better. Hidekatsu Shibata, formerly King Chapa (and Sarutobi from Naruto), does good work in the role. Additionally, Kaneto Shiozawa plays Three-Star and it's always a pleasure to hear his voice.
I like how cold and twisted Goku is as SSJ4.
Goku really slurs his -ai words in GT. He doesn't do it so much in the previous shows.
As for official guidebooks like the Perfect Files and the Daizenshuu, they are indeed reliable sources as they were put together by the production staff. However, they still tend to have inconsistencies with the series itself from time to time, so it's important to be cautious and use your own judgement.
Goku continues to punch his grandpa's remaining ball until he's interrupted by someone walking in on them.
Robo4900 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:13 pm
GTPF doesn't have a history of getting things wrong. Other sources do.
The most frequently-cited problems are the Dragons' wishes and the timeskip. VegettoEX outlined a couple of years ago why these aren't problems with the Perfect Files.
The reality is the Perfect Files had extensive contributions from the production team of GT, so it's unlikely to have anything wrong.
I've never heard of those problems before, but if they did indeed state that Gohan never stopped training, then they would be contradicting Maekawa, who wrote the most episodes and he acknowledged Gohan had moved on from fighting and was now a scholar, father bla bla, and that they had planned his comeback, which is part of episode 58's trivia, too. Although he said the comeback was planned for the Super 17 arc.
Goku continues to punch his grandpa's remaining ball until he's interrupted by someone walking in on them.
This is a bit much.
That's RICH.
Seconded
Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:54 pm
I've never heard of those problems before, but if they did indeed state that Gohan never stopped training, then they would be contradicting Maekawa, who wrote the most episodes and he acknowledged Gohan had moved on from fighting and was now a scholar, father bla bla, and that they had planned his comeback, which is part of episode 58's trivia, too. Although he said the comeback was planned for the Super 17 arc.
If it's in the Perfect Files then it's what the production team, or some members of it at least, intended.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
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