Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 82 - Official Discussion Thread

[Tai Lung]

Goku remembering his father, a character who was pretty significant in his own right in the original Dragon Ball story...does not feel like Dragon Ball?
Do you just say weird out-of-place buzzwords whenever you see something in the manga you don't like?

What will goku remember the 2 years he was in a breathing capsule? anyway i'm talking about goku's reaction

read what you write .... because you are literally not saying anything coherent ..

i'm saying goku remembering and getting sentimental for people he doesn't know doesn't feel like dragon ball or anything goku would do

Not being coherent? Claiming something as basic as remembering a suppressed memory doesn't feel like Dragon Ball seems pretty nonsensical itself, especially since you also assume Goku is being sentimental about his parents.
Even if Goku "conveniently" remembering bardock is technically implausible...Dragon Ball always had implausible moments like that.

Here you are not owing anything ... just defending an opinion based on nothing ... I am basing myself on the fact that goku should not feel anything for people he only saw when he was 3 years old and never really knew them and that they should not matter
Which only shows blatant fanservice by bardock putting it as if it were very important I'm not assuming the drawing reflects that

trying to manipulate the viewer with cheap sentimentality using the absurd idea that goku remembers 2 characters that were only there for a short time is something that the series has never done... but ok I'll wait for you, tell me when the series has done something like that

[goku the krump dancer]

They don’t really have much of a relationship for it to be warranted. Unless they say something like “oh Saiyan babies can hear their parents through the glass of the birth chambers” but even then that’s still a stretch. It made since with Grandpa Gohan because they had an actual person to person relationship.

[Tai Lung]

They don’t really have much of a relationship for it to be warranted. Unless they say something like “oh Saiyan babies can hear their parents through the glass of the birth chambers” but even then that’s still a stretch. It made since with Grandpa Gohan because they had an actual person to person relationship.

Exactly ... finally someone understands my point

[PurestEvil]

What will goku remember the 2 years he was in a breathing capsule? anyway i'm talking about goku's reaction

read what you write .... because you are literally not saying anything coherent ..

i'm saying goku remembering and getting sentimental for people he doesn't know doesn't feel like dragon ball or anything goku would do

Not being coherent? Claiming something as basic as remembering a suppressed memory doesn't feel like Dragon Ball seems pretty nonsensical itself, especially since you also assume Goku is being sentimental about his parents.
Even if Goku "conveniently" remembering bardock is technically implausible...Dragon Ball always had implausible moments like that.

Here you are not owing anything ... just defending an opinion based on nothing ... I am basing myself on the fact that goku should not feel anything for people he only saw when he was 3 years old and never really knew them and that they should not matter
Which only shows blatant fanservice by bardock putting it as if it were very important I'm not assuming the drawing reflects that

Again, none of this has anything to do with the story "not feeling like Dragon Ball", which was the whole point of that comment you just replied to. Don't talk past me.

trying to manipulate the viewer with cheap sentimentality using the absurd idea that goku remembers 2 characters that were only there for a short time is something that the series has never done... but ok I'll wait for you, tell me when the series has done something like that

Right, I'll take the bet, we'll see how good or bad this plot-point is utilized after the chapter is released.

[mute_proxy]

no, bright eyes reflect that

Spoiler:

You're showing young Goku in tears, while there's nothing tearful in his expression just surprise in his face. Stop making stuff up based on trivial details unrelated to the moment. The focus of the whole page is on his eyes, so to convey the focus, they added more detail, nothing more than that.

[Xeogran]

It's good to see Gas respect Elec no matter what.
Too bad for him that it's not mutual and Elec is 100% using him for his own goals.

I'm sure this is heading to the direction where Gas will start considering Goku a friend, probably by the last minutes of his life.

[omaro34]

My god this is some fan fiction levels of bad.

I hope Toei doesn't adapt this at all.

Fan fiction is not bad. That's like saying "this is some comic book levels of bad" for a comic book. Which this comic is.

Some fan fiction I've read is actually better than a few arcs of Super in my opinion.

[Yuji]

Would Goku crying if he remembered Bardock even be out of character? Like, is there actually anything in past work that would contradict that?

Goku has never cried as an adult outside of an anime-scene in the ToP when Roshi almost died. If he didn't cry when his best friends, wife and children were murdered, then I'm not sure it's exactly in-character to be crying over random murderers who happened to be his parents.

[Marz]

It's always funny to me when people use fanfiction in a detrimental way when talking about Super. In this series you literally have shit like Evil Goku, twisted Kai, red / blue / Pink/ Green haired Super Saiyan forms...all stuff you could find in fanfics and drawings 10 years ago, and some of these things came directly from Toriyama, and you guys just eat it.

Also you have people complaining about how Super plays too much on the safe zone and how stale it is, or how Goku is a static character that never go through anything new. But then when something different happens people still complain the same way

[Grimlock]

Oh come on, you don't give a title as promising such as "Bardock vs Gas" and the only thing you do is teasing a battle that will continue in another chapter.

I'll have to wait another entire month, won't I? Damn. Oh well, Goku now remembers his parents. That's great enough for this chapter.

It's always funny to me when people use fanfiction in a detrimental way when talking about Super. In this series you literally have shit like Evil Goku, twisted Kai, red / blue / Pink/ Green haired Super Saiyan forms...all stuff you could find in fanfics and drawings 10 years ago, and some of these things came directly from Toriyama, and you guys just eat it.

Don't forget about white/silver hair too. Also the returning of Freeza, Broly and other characters, stuff that you could find everywhere in fanfiction.

There is also: "if it's by Toriyama, then it's good. If it's by someone else, then it's bad". More below.

Also you have people complaining about how Super plays too much on the safe zone and how stale it is, or how Goku is a static character that never go through anything new. But then when something different happens people still complain the same way

I've been complaining about Goku's portrayal in Dragon Ball Super for a long time now, but even I can see and acknowledge that this is a good thing to happen to Goku.

It is, in fact, what some of us say: people not only don't know what they want, what they do know is that if it involves someone or something they like, then it's good. If it's not someone or something they like, then it's bad.

[JulieYBM]

It's always funny to me when people use fanfiction in a detrimental way when talking about Super. In this series you literally have shit like Evil Goku, twisted Kai, red / blue / Pink/ Green haired Super Saiyan forms...all stuff you could find in fanfics and drawings 10 years ago, and some of these things came directly from Toriyama, and you guys just eat it.

Also you have people complaining about how Super plays too much on the safe zone and how stale it is, or how Goku is a static character that never go through anything new. But then when something different happens people still complain the same way

So, a general consensus that you set up as a strawman and you fail to even define beyond vague comments any number of people could make...is hypocritical?

[pepd]

It could be that what he is missing for completing MnG without the transformation is saiyajin ruthless and drive for survival when fighting. It would fit with the discussions about roots, and the memory of their parents telling them to survive no matter what.

As mentioned, it all depends on the execution, particularly in DB; but until then, I still feel unsure about Burdack. They mentioned it was Toyotaro's inclusion, while I'm not a fan of the unwarranted focus on him, his portrayal has been fine so far, hopefully they make him fulfill his role in the story and don't go (more) overboard with him.

[batistabus]

Some are taking the "Goku shouldn't care about his family" thing too far. Up until now, that's how things have been, and rightfully so. He only ever met Raditz (who was a bastard), and like the rest of the Saiyans, he assumed his parents were probably just as awful. He had every reason to assume they tossed them aside as a weakling, and he had plenty of loved ones on Earth.

But if he were to find out that they weren't as bad as other Saiyans, and in fact they took a big risk to save him out of love - especially via a MEMORY HE ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED...how do you expect him to react? "Hmph...I don't give a damn", or run into the other room blocking his ears? Goku's a good person who can be moved by the kindness in others. He hasn't cared about his heritage (for a PORTION of the series) and hasn't sought out information about his parents (he didn't even bother to ask Vegeta in all of the years they've trained together), but do you honestly expect him to be indifferent when this information is presented to him? If he heard the tale of Bardock from the original Toei special he wouldn't have the same reaction. I doubt this will play in a sentimental way inappropriate to Dragon Ball.

[Tai Lung]

Again, none of this has anything to do with the story "not feeling like Dragon Ball", which was the whole point of that comment you just replied to. Don't talk past me.

this feels like dragon ball



The other is completely different ...cheap sentimentality used in characters that have been dead for more than 40 years ... and that the protagonist did not know

Right, I'll take the bet, we'll see how good or bad this plot-point is utilized after the chapter is released.

I asked you specifically when he did it before but whatever you want... really the spoilers with what is seen in the drawing and the art it transmits will not change what it is... the same thing happened with goku giving the seed to moro does not change anything when we read whole chapter

[Marz]

So, a general consensus that you set up as a strawman and you fail to even define beyond vague comments any number of people could make...is hypocritical?

"Super is stuck on a 10-year time gap where nothing relevant happens and therefore is predictible / safe" or "Goku is boring because he never changes and there's nothing left to do with his character" are complaints that you could read anywhere if you just read discussions about this series, it doesn't need to be a consesus for me to bring it up since there's no such thing, especially with the big amount of different people following the series (and it can't be a consesus either even if I make a poll on every single place dedicated to discuss Dragon Ball)

[PurestEvil]

The other is completely different ...cheap sentimentality used in characters that have been dead for more than 40 years ... and that the protagonist did not know

The distinctions in the quality/execution of these two plot points are irrelevant. Just because you don't like a certain plot point, it doesn't mean it "isn't dragon ball". That phrase is a shitty pejorative used to discredit any sort of innovation made by modern DB regardless of quality.

[Tai Lung]

no, bright eyes reflect that

Spoiler:

You're showing young Goku in tears, while there's nothing tearful in his expression just surprise in his face. Stop making stuff up based on trivial details unrelated to the moment. The focus of the whole page is on his eyes, so to convey the focus, they added more detail, nothing more than that.

so you should follow your own advice and not make things up or at least revise the manga you are defending based on nothing

the same manga... this is surprise ... toyotaro it clearly reflects


false
the other is clear that there is an emotional impact ... which is reflected in the teary eyes and the image of their parents in them that no tears come out is irrelevant because it is a memory ... and he is no longer a child

[Tai Lung]

The other is completely different ...cheap sentimentality used in characters that have been dead for more than 40 years ... and that the protagonist did not know

The distinctions in the quality/execution of these two plot points are irrelevant. Just because you don't like a certain plot point, it doesn't mean it "isn't dragon ball". That phrase is a shitty pejorative used to discredit any sort of innovation made by modern DB regardless of quality.

It is not Dragon Ball because DB has never wanted to manipulate the viewer based on cheap sentimentality using popular characters so brazenly ...
this is almost naruto meeting minato

[mute_proxy]

so you should follow your own advice and not make things up or at least revise the manga you are defending based on nothing

the same manga... this is surprise ... toyotaro it clearly reflects

Spoiler:

false
the other is clear that there is an emotional impact ... which is reflected in the teary eyes and the image of their parents in them that no tears come out is irrelevant because it is a memory ... and he is no longer a child

The expression is surprised, the same as the picture you posted. The eyes are not teary (teary eyes have actual tears underneath them). They are with extra detail, because the page is focusing on them. They're eyes, flat black balls wouldn't have the effect zoomed in without a shine.

Also, if you're gonna pull that 'revision' card, do it yourself, it's a manga, don't level it with anime art methods. The manga never 'shined' the eyes.

[PurestEvil]

The other is completely different ...cheap sentimentality used in characters that have been dead for more than 40 years ... and that the protagonist did not know

The distinctions in the quality/execution of these two plot points are irrelevant. Just because you don't like a certain plot point, it doesn't mean it "isn't dragon ball". That phrase is a shitty pejorative used to discredit any sort of innovation made by modern DB regardless of quality.

It is not Dragon Ball because DB has never wanted to manipulate the viewer based on cheap sentimentality using popular characters so brazenly ...
this is almost naruto meeting minato

1) Right, because referring to older characters can never be of any substantial narrative benefit, always assume the worst from spoiled panels.
2) Say, wasn't there a scene in the Buu arc that explicitly showed characters from early DB give energy to Goku, even though there technically did not serve a pragmatic narrative purpose other than, dare I call it such, sentimentality?
3) You are basing this viewpoint off a dumbass assumption that Goku is going to cry
4) Who are you to determine such arbitrary boundaries and declare them as absolute fact?