Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 82 - Official Discussion Thread

[OLKv3]

Looks like this chapter had a Gas leak

[FortuneSSJ]

What a great chapter!

Love the writing. Not only the fight is well executed, as the comedy is actually funny. Easily one of the best fights in the manga. Whenever Toei adapts this part I hope they dont change much.

Gas knowing Saganbo's gang makes the DB world feel more connected.
I wasn't expecting Goku tobBring Raditz to the conversation.

Oracle Fish not recognizing Gas means he's not the "strongest" in the universe he foresaw and I doubt Granolah is the one either.

I like how Vegeta to evolve has to let go of his past, while Goku has to learn about it.

Excited to for the next chapter. I doubt this arc will end before June.

[capsulecorp]

Yeah, that was the impression I got. Not really "radical centrism", just pragmatism.

Yeah, Whis is not a political being. This is him being a teacher.

[Grimlock]

What is it with people calling Goku "son of Bardock"? It just invokes... feelings. It only happened twice in the franchise, as far as I can tell, but still. Watch Goku yelling "I'm the son of Bardock!" as a response to Gas saying Goku doesn't truly know who he is.

I can see Goku acting a bit similar to Dai when he learned about his father in Dragon Quest. He will accept without struggling this fact and we might even see some parallel visuals in the end, the same as that Toyotaro's artwork with Bardock and Goku attacking together, much to people's annoyance and to my pleasure.

Speaking of Dai, I also hope Goku asks about his mother, just as Dai asked about his. Please don't let Gine be forgotten as Raditz was for decades.

[TKA]

Couple thoughts:

1. Hey, a chapter where shit happens. This should've been last month's. Maybe even the month before's.

2. Gas is finally getting traits that make him different from any generic "serious but strong" villain you'd get in a bad Toei movie or Dragonball Heroes.

3. This is potentially very fucking bad. Saying that Goku has unresolved issues because he can't remember stuff about his parentage is really fucking lame. Goku doesn't care about his saiyan heritage because he was raised on Earth. Bringing back up shit just to reference the movie and thrusting his father into a key role just because he's Goku's father is some lame determinism shit that the original manga went out of its way to shit on. Determinism tied to genetics isn't Dragonball.

3B. It fucking sucks to integrate so much Saiyan history into Goku's development when the whole crux of the conflict between him and Vegeta during the original manga was that Goku was a saiyan who didn't give 2 shits about any of Saiyan culture, and thus was unshackled, while Vegeta was the opposite.

[Mr Baggins]

Saying that Goku has unresolved issues because he can't remember stuff about his parentage is really fucking lame.

I think it's less about the fact that he couldn't remember and more about the context of his situation.

Keep in mind that Goku was just recently (as in, just a few minutes ago in-universe) sucker-punched with a bunch of information about his dad that, at least to some limited degree, indicates he wasn't such a terrible guy. That squarely goes against everything Goku was taught about his parents prior to this arc, so it makes sense that he'd disregard them until now and it equally makes sense that this new information would serve as the root of some new confusion for him.

Moreover, Ultra Instinct is all about controlling your emotions and resolving internal hang-ups (even if, in Goku's case, that hang-up was a recent one). You can think it's thematically lame, but I don't think it's out of character.

when the whole crux of the conflict between him and Vegeta during the original manga was that Goku was a saiyan who didn't give 2 shits about any of Saiyan culture, and thus was unshackled, while Vegeta was the opposite

That's one of my favorite themes in the Saiyan arc, but I feel it still holds for that particular story. Outside of it, characters change over time and DB's protagonist is no exception; the complacent, bored Goku we see in the Boo arc and much of Super is not the same Goku in early Dragon Ball, for example.

[Gt91]

What a great chapter!

Love the writing. Not only the fight is well executed, as the comedy is actually funny. Easily one of the best fights in the manga. Whenever Toei adapts this part I hope they dont change much.

Gas knowing Saganbo's gang makes the DB world feel more connected.
I wasn't expecting Goku tobBring Raditz to the conversation.

Oracle Fish not recognizing Gas means he's not the "strongest" in the universe he foresaw and I doubt Granolah is the one either.

I like how Vegeta to evolve has to let go of his past, while Goku has to learn about it.

Excited to for the next chapter. I doubt this arc will end before June.

I agree on everything!

About the strongest, that part with the oracle fish is very interesting :0
Maybe we'll see UI super sayan or just a full power UI.


Oh and when Bardack hit Gas, a kid, in the stomach .... Bardack was like: "F***** KID, WHY DON'T YOU DIE!?".
That made me laugh

[Koitsukai]

I missed the Oracle Fish not recognizing Gas on my first read. So, it's not Granola, it's not Gas... it's either Goku or Elecc. The balance of the universe will be shifted by one of them.

So, the arc doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon, not before june I'd say. Was it in december when Toyo said we were already closing in on the climax of the arc?

[TKA]

A podcast I listen to has an Asian-American host. He said Shang Chi was a very bizarre movie for him because Shang Chi is a guy, like him, who grew up in America and has no connection to China. So it was baffling to him that the movie pretended that going back to his “homeland” and “culture” was cathartic for him. “My culture and my homeland are America. I can’t even speak Chinese!”

That’s what this stinks of to me.

Goku doesn’t have Saiyan heritage, but lame writers love making a big to-do over their main characters’ heritage. It can work if you start that way, but man does it just not work with what Toriyama did. You could argue that between Piccolo Jr. Gohan and Goten and Trunks, the original Dragonball went out of its way to completely bury the concept of the apple not falling far from the tree, and genetic determinism.

You can write this interestingly with Goku, to be sure, but just because you can doesn’t really mean you should. Even if this was handled competently, which this arc hasn’t been, I would be equally as disinterested in this plot point as I am now.

Not only does it stink of all that, it’s also very reminiscent of fanfiction where “what if Goku met/knew about his super cool father?!” One of the most interesting aspects of Goku is his lack of giving two shits about any of that stuff. This was the first chapter since the Saiyan arc, for example, where Goku even brought up Raditz.

Again, you could write this well, but why remove a cool aspect of Goku just to make him more like any of the billion shonen heroes who have awesome parents and strong special genes

[The Monkey King]

The funniest panel in Dragon Ball history, I have never laughed more at a Dragon Ball gag



What others said earlier is true, the joke had a very similar vibe to TFS, just imagine Masako X voicing Goku in that scene, it fits perfectly

[TheSaiyanGod]

I'm seeing some people pointing it out and I think it's a possibility

Gas recognizes Bardock because of his tail. He knows about the Saiyan race and probably knows they can draw power from the tail. Could the flashback where Bardock appears without a tail (and we thought it was Toyo's mistake) be because Gas has actually cut it off?

Spoiler:

But also, he's enveloped by an aura in this scene (this scene takes place at the end of the fight when Gas unleashed his instincts), but not in the latest chapter. I think the idea of Bardock turning into Super Saiyan is completely delusional and there's no hints of it happening in this arc, but MAYBE we will see some Instinct-related power up for him, similar to Broly's Ikari form? I'm not exactly fan of this idea but this actually seems possible, contrary to the whole Super Saiyan theory

[TheSaiyanGod]

I'm seeing some people pointing it out and I think it's a possibility

Gas recognizes Bardock because of his tail. He knows about the Saiyan race and probably knows they can draw power from the tail. Could the flashback where Bardock appears without a tail (and we thought it was Toyo's mistake) be because Gas has actually cut it off?

Spoiler:

But also, he's enveloped by an aura in this scene (this scene takes place at the end of the fight when Gas unleashed his instincts), but not in the latest chapter. I think the idea of Bardock turning into Super Saiyan is completely delusional and there's no hints of it happening in this arc, but MAYBE we will see some Instinct-related power up for him, similar to Broly's Ikari form? I'm not exactly fan of this idea but this actually seems possible, contrary to the whole Super Saiyan theory

[Mr Baggins]

Re: Goku's heritage:

Different strokes, I guess. I don't see any of this as a cultural thing per se, but purely a parental one. Finding out more about your absent folks and then realizing they didn't fit your preconceptions would probably come as a shock to anyone, even Goku.

With that said, I think there's still a lot of room to really mess this up. This isn't something that should drastically change Goku's character.

[mute_proxy]

Did people go and forget Toriyama's style of humor? Why are people talking about TFS and how it could've inspired Toyotaro (a 40 yo dude who hasn't shown signs of being an english speaker) all of a sudden?

[PurestEvil]

Did people go and forget Toriyama's style of humor? Why are people talking about TFS and how it could've inspired Toyotaro (a 40 yo dude who hasn't shown signs of being an english speaker) all of a sudden?

TFS' Abridged series was full of witty banter and shit-talking not to dissimilar to that leaky Gas joke. I don't think anyone here was actually crediting TFS for "inspiring" Toyotarou (that would be fucking dumb).

[Grimlock]

I think the idea of Bardock turning into Super Saiyan is completely delusional and there's no hints of it happening in this arc,

I don't know if one of your reasons to think it's "delusional" it's because Bardock doesn't turn Super Saiyan against Freeza later on, but if that's the case, then let us remember that it's possible to turn into Super Saiyan one time and not be able to transform again.



This is something I've seen people forgetting about in their arguments about why Bardock wouldn't transform against Freeza since he had transformed before.

MAYBE we will see some Instinct-related power up for him, similar to Broly's Ikari form? I'm not exactly fan of this idea but this actually seems possible, contrary to the whole Super Saiyan theory

I would prefer Bardock to have something unique to him, just as Rage is to Broly. Another form that has yet to be properly explained is False Super Saiyan. It could be similar to Rage in some aspects, but without the Oozaru part. A rework in that transformation design is probably in order too, I don't know. But it could be interesting if Bardock could have his own thing as well.


Anyway, as for chapter 83...

Spoiler:

He's coming!

[Koitsukai]

I also don't see this having anything to do with culture, it's a personal thing.

It's his biological father, a dude he thought was just a murderer, he didn't even know they look exactly the same, and had nothing going on to spark any type of interest on Goku... until he started learning things about his father that made him relatable and contradicted his preconceived notions about him, then something rung a bell and got a glimpse of his very first memory.
It turns out this supposed psychopath that discarded him for being weak, actually cared about him and didn't ditch him at all but saved his ass.

And this also has nothing to do with Goku acknowledging any type of saiyan heritage, it's Goku coming to terms with his entire existence in order to finally be able keep his heart calm as needed. He knows where he is at, he knows where he wants to go, but he never actually knew where he came from, mainly because he had no reason to care, until now.

Besides, the in depth look on Bardock began with Toriyama's Minus, not with Toyotaro's Granola arc.

[batistabus]

Vote: Did Gas wet his pants?
https://strawpoll.com/polls/jVyGJqKrkZ7

[Lukmendes]

You're right on about execution. The problem is is that I'm pretty sure this arc has burned up a lot of the good will it garnered when it first started. If they actually do something interesting with Goku remembering his father's face, I'm here for it!

I'm just not all that convinced it will.

Yeah wasn't really expecting the execution to be much, and now that chapter is out, what we got is, nothing, really expected it to have Goku at least saying something.

Anyway, I would recommend you to read Superior Spiderman, it has the same villain plot in the hero's body.. and nobody ever called it Evil Spiderman or fanfic, in fact, it's quite good.

One thing has nothing to do with the other... because I don't know what a cheesy scene has to do with the idea of an evil copy

What? We have Spidey's supporting cast becoming morons all of a sudden for the plot to even work, that point in particular makes it not that unusual for people who detest it to say it has fanfiction level of writing (Or just say it's bad in general).

- Goku could have more than 20 minutes because Gas would find if Whis kept his big mouth shut. Seriously, what was up with him pointing Gas in the right direction?

Whis in general feels like he doesn't mind helping out, and only draws the line at the likes of Zamasu or Moro.

- The Bardock/Gas stuff just does nothing for me because I find bother characters in this arc to be painfully uninteresting for me. I've gone into detail about the issues I have with Minus/Super Bardock so I'm not going to repeat them, but I find the idea of Goku remembering Bardock telling Goku to keep himself safe before seeing him to Earth acting as a possible catalyst for Goku attaining a unique version of Ultra Instinct so fucking awful. That's the kind of glurge, revoltingly sentimental, trite shit you'd see in other shonen manga like One Piece, Naruto, Bleach and all the rest. I hope that's not the case.

The chapter does seem to be pointing out in that direction, with Whis asking Goku "what are you?" and then soon after we have Goku remembering Bardock and Gine... Goku is more of a character who improves for the sake of it and not much else, on the other hand, he only got SS because of Krillin's death, so emotional shit powering him up can happen, but, I'm not sure if him remembering his parents would be a good catalyst for something like that when UI is more of an "fight without thinking" kind of deal.

Time will tell how the hell this will play out, in particular I just think Goku should be shocked at finding out the actual reason he was sent to Earth, but not too much else, he's a saiyan, but his family is from Earth, on the other hand, finding out his parents sent him to Earth to protect him is not something that can be dismissed even if Goku doesn't see Bardock and Gine as family... It's, gonna be tricky to balance this out lol.

This is something I've seen people forgetting about in their arguments about why Bardock wouldn't transform against Freeza since he had transformed before.

It would be very weird though, if he can transform against a random like Gas, but then can't do it again when he's desperately trying to stop Freeza from killing everyone else, specially considering that, once a SS transformation is "unlocked", transforming again afterwards is easier, even if they can't do it at first.

Vote: Did Gas wet his pants?
https://strawpoll.com/polls/jVyGJqKrkZ7

"I love democracy."

[Grimlock]

It would be very weird though, if he can transform against a random like Gas, but then can't do it again when he's desperately trying to stop Freeza from killing everyone else, specially considering that, once a SS transformation is "unlocked", transforming again afterwards is easier, even if they can't do it at first.

I agree, the circumstances aren't in favor of Bardock getting Super Saiyan in this fight (that's why I prefer him to have his own unique form that we don't know much about).

It's just that, if Toyotaro goes for Super Saiyan, there's that excuse already established by the original manga itself. We don't know what will happen in Bardock and Gas fight anyway. So anything's possible, for now.