Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 83 - Official Discussion Thread

[Rafa Fast]

I know if I say this it will look like that I'm crazy, and that the chances of this happening are almost inexistent, but I'll just take this out from the box because I saw nobody thinking about this yet.

Bardock achieves the Saiyan Beyond God form.
First of all, The Super Saiyan God Legend in no way describes how the transformation looks like, the red hair, the fire looking aura, nothing is mentioned, it's possible that it simply refers to a regular looking saiyan, with a god ki. Bardock's aura shows a resemblance with the aura that we see in the Fukkatsu no F movie, his hair also moves, exactly like Goku's hair in the Saiyan Beyond God state.

Taking away that possibility, I just can see him defeating Gas by achieving a form of his own, or that is a potential unleashed, but Monaito said he doesn't remember how Bardock defeated Gas, so for me that doesn't go anywhere.

Also, it's important to note that before Goku, the regular Yamoshi SSJ legend was 1000 years old, the legend was still very strong in age 762, while it seems, that the SSJ God legend was pretty much losing it's weight throughout the years, you see nobody mentioning it, except for Freeza, probably because, exactly, nobody knew how it looked like, The Legendary Super Saiyan was patently know by his golden hair, but the SSJ God, not even Shenlong mentioned how he looks, probably because, who saw it, couldn't distinguish it very much from a Base form Saiyan, there's the possibility that Freeza knew about the SSJ God because of Bardock fighting Gas, who knows?
Well, that's it, if ends being this, I'll really be surprised, this is my bet.

[Xeogran]

so perhaps he would wish to become the most knowledgeable person in the universe, taking Zuno’s place?

How would one even defeat such a person? With instincts? Luck? He should technically know everyone's weak point and every attack that will come at him.

Spoiler:

Yhwach from Bleach comes to mind

[emperior]

My absolute weird and unlikely prediction is that Goku gets temporarily teleported from the present to the past through some Cerealian Dragon Balls-related shenanigans, and he is instrumental in helping out his father win the fight.

It is the kind of fan service I would not be too surprised to see, considering how heavily requested a meeting (and team up) of the two is. They may also not get another chance to do this. Or maybe Goku will just enter Bardock’s head and coach him throughout the fight, never revealing his identity, or even take over his body temporarily.

If Monaito (or someone) saved Bardock by summoning present-day Goku via the Dragon Balls, what happened to Bardock in all those timelines where Goku dies far earlier?

Whatever the wish is, it logically can't have anything to do with Goku being alive in the present.

Ah yes, I hadn’t given any thought to it not fitting with Dragon Ball’s timelines.

Then I would go with the easiest prediction, and say that Monaito just asks Toronbo to fully restore Bardock’s health. Then, I guess Bardock will somehow lose his tail and that this will be connected to his power boost which will be instinct-like. But it should also be something which can be said out loud to be revealed to those listening through the scouter in the present, so it cannot just be a nice aura, it should be a particular technique.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I like Elec's approach regarding intel and money being more important than power to rule the universe, I'm just wondering how exactly he will accomplish it in the DB setting, where strength almost always prevails. I mean, he still needed to turn Gas into the strongest to get rid of Goku, Granolah and Vegeta (granted, Elec reached this point because his previous plan to make them kill each other didn't worked, but the point is that he still need muscles to actually put down the strong guys). And assuming that Gas doesn't have much time left after the wish, none of the other Heeters can deal with Freeza. Elec also doesn't care about having an army so that's also out of question for him to handle his main enemy.

That's why I actually liked the idea that he could make a wish for Freeza. Yeah, it can easily backfire, but it's something that could work not only as a back-up plan (because if Gas fail, Freeza as the strongest would certainly go after Goku and Vegeta), but as a way to deal with Freeza himself assuming that he would also not have much time left. He would deal with all of his threats

I'm not into the idea of making the "strongest" wish for the 3rd time, but it's a interesting idea overall

[TobyS]

I know if I say this it will look like that I'm crazy, and that the chances of this happening are almost inexistent, but I'll just take this out from the box because I saw nobody thinking about this yet.

Bardock achieves the Saiyan Beyond God form.
First of all, The Super Saiyan God Legend in no way describes how the transformation looks like, the red hair, the fire looking aura, nothing is mentioned, it's possible that it simply refers to a regular looking saiyan, with a god ki. Bardock's aura shows a resemblance with the aura that we see in the Fukkatsu no F movie, his hair also moves, exactly like Goku's hair in the Saiyan Beyond God state.

Taking away that possibility, I just can see him defeating Gas by achieving a form of his own, or that is a potential unleashed, but Monaito said he doesn't remember how Bardock defeated Gas, so for me that doesn't go anywhere.

Also, it's important to note that before Goku, the regular Yamoshi SSJ legend was 1000 years old, the legend was still very strong in age 762, while it seems, that the SSJ God legend was pretty much losing it's weight throughout the years, you see nobody mentioning it, except for Freeza, probably because, exactly, nobody knew how it looked like, The Legendary Super Saiyan was patently know by his golden hair, but the SSJ God, not even Shenlong mentioned how he looks, probably because, who saw it, couldn't distinguish it very much from a Base form Saiyan, there's the possibility that Freeza knew about the SSJ God because of Bardock fighting Gas, who knows?
Well, that's it, if ends being this, I'll really be surprised, this is my bet.

Saiyan beyond god doesn't exist in the manga. Thank Dende for that.

[Jiren The Alpha]

I know if I say this it will look like that I'm crazy, and that the chances of this happening are almost inexistent, but I'll just take this out from the box because I saw nobody thinking about this yet.

Bardock achieves the Saiyan Beyond God form.
First of all, The Super Saiyan God Legend in no way describes how the transformation looks like, the red hair, the fire looking aura, nothing is mentioned, it's possible that it simply refers to a regular looking saiyan, with a god ki. Bardock's aura shows a resemblance with the aura that we see in the Fukkatsu no F movie, his hair also moves, exactly like Goku's hair in the Saiyan Beyond God state.

Taking away that possibility, I just can see him defeating Gas by achieving a form of his own, or that is a potential unleashed, but Monaito said he doesn't remember how Bardock defeated Gas, so for me that doesn't go anywhere.

Also, it's important to note that before Goku, the regular Yamoshi SSJ legend was 1000 years old, the legend was still very strong in age 762, while it seems, that the SSJ God legend was pretty much losing it's weight throughout the years, you see nobody mentioning it, except for Freeza, probably because, exactly, nobody knew how it looked like, The Legendary Super Saiyan was patently know by his golden hair, but the SSJ God, not even Shenlong mentioned how he looks, probably because, who saw it, couldn't distinguish it very much from a Base form Saiyan, there's the possibility that Freeza knew about the SSJ God because of Bardock fighting Gas, who knows?
Well, that's it, if ends being this, I'll really be surprised, this is my bet.

Saiyan beyond god doesn't exist in the manga. Thank Dende for that.

It doesn't exist in the anime or the movies either. It's headcanon that started from a Heroes trailer for the movie ROF.

[Rafa Fast]

Saiyan beyond god doesn't exist in the manga. Thank Dende for that.

It doesn't exist in the anime or the movies either. It's headcanon that started from a Heroes trailer for the movie ROF.

I meant in a what if scenario they actually make it canon? We're living in a age that they like to make old non-canon stuff into canon, or turning into reality ideas that were hinted for their existence to be possible, but it didn't appear at all yet (ex: Vegeta's Ultra Ego being his "Hakaishin" form), so for me everything is possible.
If that's not it, then for me, it's going to be Super Saiyan "Power", it's my last bet (perhaps, to be more precise, the state we see in DBSB isn't the same thing we see Goku using in the Other World torunament arc)

[Grimlock]

It's headcanon that started from a Heroes trailer for the movie ROF.

Then what are these?

[Miracles]

I know it's a long shot, since Toriyama has always been against it. However, what if the instinct Goku derives from the memories of his father being a savior is that of a Hero?

Bardock even questioned his inclinations for putting himself at risk to save the two Cerealians and Namekian. It seems Goku has been suppressing his true inner nature, In denial about what he is like his father maybe?

[Jiren The Alpha]

It's headcanon that started from a Heroes trailer for the movie ROF.

Then what are these?

First one is from a manga that Toriyama pretends he cares about, the second one is from a art book he uses to wipe his ass with and the last one is from a game were he properly things you need a Sega genesis to play. I'm talking about in-universe statements that says they are two base forms.

[Grimlock]

No, you were talking about "headcanon", but there are three different media acknowledging it. So it's more than "headcanon". The only thing that comes from Dragon Ball Heroes is its name.

Anyway, since it's off-topic, just gonna ask something to think about: if the power of Super Saiyan God can be absorbed and then used with the Super Saiyan forms, why wouldn't it be possible to use it in base form too? Statements are nice, but there are occasions where they aren't really needed.

[Jiren The Alpha]

No, you were talking about "headcanon", but there are three different media acknowledging it. So it's more than "headcanon". The only thing that comes from Dragon Ball Heroes is its name.

Anyway, since it's off-topic, just gonna ask something to think about: if the power of Super Saiyan God can be absorbed and then used with the Super Saiyan forms, why wouldn't it be possible to use it in base form too? Statements are nice, but there are occasions where they aren't really needed.

Yes, the two base theory is headcanon because it was never shown Goku and Vegeta could switch between "normal mode" and "gode mode". Goku and Vegeta always have those god powers with no switching inbetween. Heroes just made it look like they could in the trailers and gameplay, and people wanne it to be true because they wanne to save the power scaling.

But anyway, can Toyotarou stop with the clear fanboying over Bardock? Is he getting help from Naho Ōishi to write this charter?

[redon]

Here is my Dragon Ball Super chapter 83 full summary that I can share with you.

Spoiler:

- Chapter 83: "Bardock Vs. Gas 2".
- Gas creates a mace to continue attacking Bardock.
- Monaito begs Bardock to leave him and Granolah to their fate and save himself. Bardock refuses to do it.
- Gas tells Bardock that even if he runs away, Saiyans doesn't have much time left (that's what Elec told him).
- Bardock gets angry and tells Gas that they are the one with no future. He then shots a Ki ball at Gas.
- Gas dodges it and attacks Bardock with his mace. Bardock stops it with his arms but he is seriously damaged.
- Bardock grabs the mace and throws Gas away from the area, then tells Monaito and Granolah to leave.
- Bardock: "This is my battle and you're in the middle!!"
- Gas is tired of Bardock's annoying attacks, so he decides to unleash his "instincts" a bit and changes form (but he doesn't reach his "Broly" form yet).
- Monaito goes to his house and takes out the 2 Dragon Balls. Although it is forbidden to use them for their own sake, Monaito believes that using them for someone from another planet is OK.
- Bardock is upset about fighting someone who can change his fighting power, Gas tells him that his power doesn't work like that exactly.
- Gas tells Bardock that he must give up, but Bardock says no. Bardock is happy to be able to fight against someone strong.
- Gas and Bardock continue exchanging attacks. In the distance we can see "Trombo", the dragon that Monaito has summoned.
- Monaito asks the dragon to send Bardock back to his home planet.
- Trombo contacts with Bardock and tells him that he is going to send him to Planet Vegeta at the request of Monaito.
- Bardock doesn't know what is happening and who is talking to him. Trombo explains that he is a dragon that grants wishes. Gas wonders who Bardock is talking to and then he sees the dragon in the distance.
- Trombo tells Monaito that Bardock has refused to the wish. We see Bardock says that the Saiyans don't run away from their enemies even if they are going to die.
- Bardock and Gas are still fighting. Monaito speaks telepathically with Bardock and asks him to leave the plante becouse Bardock can help others as he has done with him.
- Bardock refuses again, he's not going to leave until he defeats Gas.
- Monaito then asks Bardock if he has another wish since he wants to help him no matter what. Bardock wonders if Monaito is going to ask the wish to a shooting star (he hasn't seen the dragon yet).
- Bardock: ""Well then, yeah... May my sons grow up well... I wish them well""
- Elec, Maki and Oil are watching the explosions from the fight between Bardock and Gas. Suddenly, they see a light in the distance that goes up into the sky and then splits in two.
- They wonder what it is, since the light appears in the area where the Namekian's house is. Oil makes a wish, Maki tells him that it's not a shooting star.
- Elec says them not to worry about that and to go for Frieza's ship since it won't take long to arrive.
- Monaito looks at the sky while the Dragon Balls leave. He then looks at Granolah, who is still asleep.
- Monaito: "Wishes should be used to give hope to the future. Selfish wishes only bring ruin. I almost made a big mistake. Now I must focus on protecting that hope."
- Gas hits Bardock with some Ki balls. Bardock defends himself but in the end he falls to the ground very tired.
- Gas approaches him and grabs his tail, then he shakes Bardock and finally rips his tail off by force.
- Gas: "You can no longer transform into a giant ape!!"
- Gas creates a spear with his powers and throws it at Bardock, but Monaito gets in the way and the spear goes through Monaito's shoulder.
- Monaito: "I'm sorry about what I did before. I've decided that I must protect Granolah by myself."
- Gas enrages and unleashes his instincts 100% (he changes to his "Broly" form). Gas attacks both violently, Monaito crashes into some rocks.
- Gas grabs Bardock's neck and tells him that now he no longer has the Namekian to protect him. He also tells Bardock that he will find the kid and kill him.
- Bardock laughs and tells Gas that he shouldn't decide things without counting on the others. He won't die until he defeats Gas.
- Bardock creates a large Ki ball in his hand and makes it explode. Gas lets go Bardock that starts attacking Gas repeatedly, it seems that Bardock has regained his strength.
- Gas asks Bardock why he keeps fighting if he can't win, if he does it to repair his sins. Bardock says no.
- Gas then asks Bardock if he does it for revenge, Bardock says no again.
- Gas is furious and asks Bardock for an answer. Then he attacks Bardock.
- Bardock: "Of course that's obvious. When you're in a fight to the death, what kind of an idiot thinks about anything but "winning"?"
- An aura covers Bardock's body, then he stops Gas punch easily. Then Bardock punches Gas hard in the stomach.
- Bardock: "The only reason I fight is to see if I can beat the other bastard standing against me. That's all I care about."
- Gas wonders what is going on, how is it possible that Bardock has become stronger if the Saiyans have no other way to do it than transforming into giant apes.
- Bardock: "Perhaps you don't know. When we push past our limits, we often evolve. We Saiyans"
- Bardock keeps attacking Gas. Elec watches the fight from the distance.
- Bardock charges a Ki ball in his hand, it will be his last attack. He then throws it at Gas, who fully takes the attack.
- Gas falls to the ground unconscious, he has returned to his normal form. Bardock also falls to the ground exhausted.
- Elec approaches his brother, looks at him and says that he should train more. As Elec is about to pick Gas up to leave, he sees that Bardock is still alive.
- Bardock asks Elec if they are Frieza's allies, Elec laughs and asks Bardock if he knows what Frieza really has in mind.
- Elec: "Kukuku... You Saiyans are lucky. A meteor could fall near your heads."
- Bardock doesn't know what he is talking about. Elec tells Bardock that now that he has heard it, he must die and shoots Bardock with a gun.
- The shot goes through Bardock's right arm, then Bardock falls off a cliff into a forest.
- Elec is going to finish Bardock off, but Maki calls him and tells Elec that Frieza's ship has arrived.
- Elec shoots several times to the area where Bardock has fallen and leaves with Gas, since Bardock was so badly injured that he will die even if Elec doesn't kill him now.
- Monaito arrives at where Bardock is and begins to heal him (although he is also injured). Both of them and Granolah have survived.
- Monaito: "You have won, Bardock!"
- In the last panel we see that Bardock's scouter turns off, a sign that Elec has gone far enough that scouter can no longer detect him.

END

[Yuji]

It was just an emotional power up rather than Super Saiyan, I'm guessing?

[Grimlock]

"- Bardock: ""Well then, yeah... May my sons grow up well... I wish them well"

I'm impressed by my ability to pick absurdly awesome characters as my favorites, since they generally reflect something personal about me. Simply love the way Bardock is being written here.

Now, what is this power-up Bardock got? Surely his aura is not an usual one. Hopefully it is explained at some point, and by the way this chapter ends, we might get just a little more in the next.

[emperior]

It was just an emotional power up rather than Super Saiyan, I'm guessing?

It’s not even that. It seems like it was just the usual Saiyan ability to get stronger during a fight. There is no special form, no special nothing about Bardock. He won a fight, and that’s all. And the trick was to just fight to win, nothing else. It is so simple but effective. And it suits Goku, too, without altering his character, if the lesson is to just fight with fire in your eyes and the sheer determination to win. You know, like Goku always did.

[batistabus]

Spoiler:

I actually really like that wish. It's vague and unlike any wish we've seen granted in the series. An expression of hope that panned out in a roundabout sort of way.

[emperior]

If the wish was actually granted, the implications are huge.

Basically, Goku and Raditz would have luckily survived Vegeta’s explosion due to a DB wish…? That is actually interesting if true. And if the wish was to “grow up well” it may have ended once they grew, hence their death shortly thereafter?

Which could also mean that Goku, as a kid, may have survived many times due to this wish and not just luck. Ex. Taopaipai, King Piccolo… the former he survived thanks to a dragon ball, while the latter was weirder as King Piccolo was sure about his death as the heart had stopped.

[batistabus]

If the wish was actually granted, the implications are huge.

Basically, Goku and Raditz would have luckily survived Vegeta’s explosion due to a DB wish…? That is actually interesting if true. And if the wish was to “grow up well” it may have ended once they grew, hence their death shortly thereafter?

Which could also mean that Goku, as a kid, may have survived many times due to this wish and not just luck. Ex. Taopaipai, King Piccolo… the former he survived thanks to a dragon ball, while the latter was weirder as King Piccolo was sure about his death as the heart had stopped.

Right...

...so now, instead of those things being main character plot armor, they actually have an in-universe explanation.

I'm sure this won't be polarizing...............

[emperior]

If the wish was actually granted, the implications are huge.

Basically, Goku and Raditz would have luckily survived Vegeta’s explosion due to a DB wish…? That is actually interesting if true. And if the wish was to “grow up well” it may have ended once they grew, hence their death shortly thereafter?

Which could also mean that Goku, as a kid, may have survived many times due to this wish and not just luck. Ex. Taopaipai, King Piccolo… the former he survived thanks to a dragon ball, while the latter was weirder as King Piccolo was sure about his death as the heart had stopped.

Right...

...so now, instead of those things being main character plot armor, they actually have an in-universe explanation.

I'm sure this won't be polarizing...............

I don’t think people will give too much thought to it. Moreover I assume it’s not even clear if Monaito granted the wish or not, or if Toronbo heard Bardock and thus granted his wish.

This will be probably left up for interpretation, which is cool by me.