Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Big Black Sayian]

If it was Cell that appeared TOEI would have already spoiled, just like how they spoil forms and surprised for every movie.

To be honest there IS plenty of Cell merchandise and promotion happening now. We just don't know if it has to do with this movie.

Good point you have there. There is perhaps a small chance then.

Plus there's still plenty of time to spoil stuff with at least one more trailer. Lol

[Shorty GZ2]

Most hype this film will ever get if Cell actually does show up

This flick doesn't even have a catchy theme song yet

[FortuneSSJ]

Completely forgot about Goku Day. If not a new trailer, maybe they could announce the theme song for this movie. All modern DB movies have one and this one shouldn't be an exception.

BOG - “Hero: Song of Hope” by Flow
ROF - “Pledge of Z” by Momoiro Clover Z
Broly - “Blizzard” by Daichi Miura
Super Hero - ???

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Usually they reveal the theme song in the second official trailer, which is why I was kinda surprised that the last trailer didn't feature any song at all. Hopefully we get something soon. Kageyama did a performance at that Comic Con event last year for the movie. Maybe they're making new music with him? That would be neat.

[SupremeKai25]

I don't know why people here are saying that Cell will bring hype for this movie, but last I checked (Villains poll of 2018), Cell was crushed in popularity by Goku Black (Black had almost double the votes in that poll, 10.5% voted for Black while only 5.6% voted for Cell).

When a main arc villain from 1990 loses to a main arc villain from 2016 that badly, you know there's a problem. It should be taken for granted that a classic, original villain would always beat a new, modern, more recent villain in popularity. Especially when Cell had so much more screentime compared to Black, due to the Cell saga having something like 50 or so episodes, while the Goku Black saga only had 21.

I don't think Cell's inclusion will increase the popularity of this movie in any significant way.

[Shorty GZ2]

Maybe not, but hype for me lol

[Zephyr]

Black being more popular and liked than Cell doesn't entail that Cell isn't at all popular or liked.

[JulieYBM]

Completely forgot about Goku Day. If not a new trailer, maybe they could announce the theme song for this movie. All modern DB movies have one and this one shouldn't be an exception.

BOG - “Hero: Song of Hope” by Flow
ROF - “Pledge of Z” by Momoiro Clover Z
Broly - “Blizzard” by Daichi Miura
Super Hero - ???

I hope they bring on a female vocalist! Give a girl some Mizuki Nana or Nakagawa Shouko!

[SupremeKai25]

So why do people here want Cell to come back? Am I the only one who sees the obvious irony? People here have been praising the new movie because it finally does something "new" and "original" instead of rehashing old concepts (I'd argue that the premise of the movie is copy-pasted from the Android saga, but I digress)... but at the same time, they want Cell to come back? Rehashing old villains is what the RoF and Broly movies did, but I thought this movie was supposed to be a "breath of fresh air" (lower stakes, no big bad from the past coming back, etc.). Am I wrong?

[Shorty GZ2]

I don't and didn't necessarily want Cell to come back, but by the point of when word got out of/hints of his inclusion started increasingly circulating, I basically didn't really care about the movie beyond it existing in perpetuity/eventually releasing (as you said, the prospects of it being akin to BoG seemed appealing, though I wasn't interested/into whatever was shown in what minimal marketing of the movie that existed visual/story/character-wise) so the notion of Cell showing up (then being jobbed out in like 25 minutes) - while indeed somewhat creatively bankrupt - seems mildly funnier & more possibly chaotic/entertaining than anything the movie has shown to offer up till now lmao

[Zephyr]

People here have been praising the new movie because it finally does something "new" and "original" instead of rehashing old concepts (I'd argue that the premise of the movie is copy-pasted from the Android saga, but I digress)... but at the same time, they want Cell to come back?

That seems to miss the obvious fact that different people might want different things and might be expressing different sentiments?

Also missing the obvious fact that something can rehash or remix existing material and ideas, and do new things at the same time, as Dragon Ball has always done. Like the Future Trunks arc and its villain. We've already had an evil Goku (Tullece), we've already had a green man who uses Goku's essence for evil in a story involving time travel (Cell), we've already been given the idea of evil Shinjin (Makaioshin), we've already been given the idea of time travel being a big no-no (DBO/Xenoverse, iirc).

That also ignores the obvious fact that all art builds on existing art that impacted or influenced or inspired the creators. Like the comic "Dragon Ball", and how it "rehashed" Jackie Chan films, Bruce Lee films, Journey to the West, Fist of the North Star, and so on. Or how later story arcs in the comic repeat certain plot beats from earlier arcs (ie: Goku showing up at the last moment to save everyone, a new form being unlocked during the final battle, etc.).

Doesn't mean that Dragon Ball in general, or the Future Trunks arc in particular, did nothing "new" with that material and those ideas. Just a weird false dichotomy at play here.

[SupremeKai25]

People here have been praising the new movie because it finally does something "new" and "original" instead of rehashing old concepts (I'd argue that the premise of the movie is copy-pasted from the Android saga, but I digress)... but at the same time, they want Cell to come back?

That seems to miss the obvious fact that different people might want different things and might be expressing different sentiments?

Also missing the obvious fact that something can rehash or remix existing material and ideas, and do new things at the same time, as Dragon Ball has always done. Like the Future Trunks arc and its villain. We've already had an evil Goku (Tullece), we've already had a green man who uses Goku's essence for evil in a story involving time travel (Cell), we've already been given the idea of evil Shinjin (Makaioshin), we've already been given the idea of time travel being a big no-no (DBO/Xenoverse, iirc).

That also ignores the obvious fact that all art builds on existing art that impacted or influenced or inspired the creators. Like the comic "Dragon Ball", and how it "rehashed" Jackie Chan films, Bruce Lee films, Journey to the West, Fist of the North Star, and so on. Or how later story arcs in the comic repeat certain plot beats from earlier arcs (ie: Goku showing up at the last moment to save everyone, a new form being unlocked during the final battle, etc.).

Doesn't mean that Dragon Ball in general, or the Future Trunks arc in particular, did nothing "new" with that material and those ideas. Just a weird false dichotomy at play here.

And yet one of the main arguments that has been used here in the defense of this movie is that, unlike the RoF and Broly movies, it's not bringing back any past villain, but instead introducing new villains (the Gamma androids).

Why bring Cell back? Why not go forward with these new Gamma villains?

If Cell were to come back, why even introduce the new androids in the first place? Would it not have made sense, then, to simply market this movie as a Cell movie since the start?

How do you reconcile having Cell and the new Gamma androids sharing the spotlight of "main villains" of this movie?

[super michael]

We don't really need Cell to come back, just have the Cell Jr all grown up. Unlike Cell who was born weak, the Cell Jrs were born powerful.
Seeing that the Cell Jrs were born with power level greater than Freeza, that should mean their potential is that much bigger than him.

Freeza was stated to never being able to surpass Beerus, but I don't see that a problem for Cell Jr. Cell Jr has got Saiyan DNA and Freeza DNA who has a lot of potential. He has got Piccolo DNA who has a long life span, since Namekian can live for hundreds or thousands of years like Elder Guru, Kami, Daimao Piccolo and Monaito. Kami was able to use the Mafuba without dying, that shows Namekian has a strong life force.

[Zephyr]

And yet one of the main arguments that has been used here in the defense of this movie is that, unlike the RoF and Broly movies, it's not bringing back any past villain, but instead introducing new villains (the Gamma androids).

Why bring Cell back? Why not go forward with these new Gamma villains?

If Cell were to come back, why even introduce the new androids in the first place? Would it not have made sense, then, to simply market this movie as a Cell movie since the start?

How do you reconcile having Cell and the new Gamma androids sharing the spotlight of "main villains" of this movie?

Well, speaking for myself, I'm indifferent to if a new story features a new character or a returning character. Matters more to me what gets done with the character, either way. And, again, even if this did feature a returning character, it's also featuring new characters. Same way RoF and Broly did. Seems like a real big non-issue.

Why does the marketing for a film need to lay all its cards on the table from the get-go? Are filmmakers not allowed to surprise an audience? Beerus wasn't revealed when BoG was announced. RoF had a whole marketing bit of "what is this worst wish in history???", followed by "who's gonna be revived?????"; they didn't market it as a "Freeza movie" from the start. Nor was Broly marketed as a Broli movie from the start.

I also don't see why having multiple antagonists in the spotlight needs to be "reconciled". Are stories not allowed to feature multiple antagonists?

[SupremeKai25]

And yet one of the main arguments that has been used here in the defense of this movie is that, unlike the RoF and Broly movies, it's not bringing back any past villain, but instead introducing new villains (the Gamma androids).

Why bring Cell back? Why not go forward with these new Gamma villains?

If Cell were to come back, why even introduce the new androids in the first place? Would it not have made sense, then, to simply market this movie as a Cell movie since the start?

How do you reconcile having Cell and the new Gamma androids sharing the spotlight of "main villains" of this movie?

Well, speaking for myself, I'm indifferent to if a new story features a new character or a returning character. Matters more to me what gets done with the character, either way. And, again, even if this did feature a returning character, it's also featuring new characters. Same way RoF and Broly did. Seems like a real big non-issue.

Why does the marketing for a film need to lay all its cards on the table from the get-go? Are filmmakers not allowed to surprise an audience? Beerus wasn't revealed when BoG was announced. RoF had a whole marketing bit of "what is this worst wish in history???", followed by "who's gonna be revived?????"; they didn't market it as a "Freeza movie" from the start. Nor was Broly marketed as a Broli movie from the start.

Yeah but it's been almost 1 year since the movie was revealed. 1 year since their reveal, we already knew that Frieza and Broly were going to feature in their respective movies. Is there anything that points to Cell coming back?

I also don't see why having multiple antagonists in the spotlight needs to be "reconciled". Are stories not allowed to feature multiple antagonists?

Actually I don't know why you underplay this concern, it's very valid. Many stories are too ambitious and try to put too many villains in the spotlight, which can make the story bloated and rushed. If Cell doesn't come back, at least the Gamma villains have the spotlight devoted solely to them. And since they are new characters with 0 background, they need spotlight more than Cell.

Since this movie is supposed to have lower stakes, I don't think Cell should come back. People look at Cell and see a serious, galaxy-threatening villain, which wouldn't fit with this movie, that is marketed as more fun and light-hearted.

[Zephyr]

Is there anything that points to Cell coming back?

I also don't see why having multiple antagonists in the spotlight needs to be "reconciled". Are stories not allowed to feature multiple antagonists?

Actually I don't know why you underplay this concern, it's very valid. Many stories are too ambitious and try to put too many villains in the spotlight, which can make the story bloated and rushed. If Cell doesn't come back, at least the Gamma villains have the spotlight devoted solely to them. And since they are new characters with 0 background, they need spotlight more than Cell.

Since this movie is supposed to have lower stakes, I don't think Cell should come back. People look at Cell and see a serious, galaxy-threatening villain, which wouldn't fit with this movie, that is marketed as more fun and light-hearted.

I'm not sure of anything that necessarily points to Cell coming back, no. But, Super's brought a ton of characters back already so it'd be hardly out of place (especially with it being a Gohan-centric film), and it's funny to see people panic over speculation that it might be Cell in that container. It's even funnier to imagine it being 2nd form Cell (Toriyama's favorite).

Stories can be overly ambitious and bloated even with a single antagonist. It's entirely conceivable that the Gammas might have less screen time than we expect. If there's some Cell-type entity, maybe they'll get absorbed by it.

I don't understand why having X amount of background warrants Y amount of spotlight.

Alternatively, Cell could come back and it might not raise the stakes at all. He could be used for comic relief. Who knows!

[capsulecorp]

Let me say from the start, I don't like Cell, I think his story is the low point of DBZ by quite a bit. He's boring and very... "nothing". His personality is that he's arrogant. Yawn! So, this isn't a "defense" of him.

HOWEVER, I think we need to take the poll that seems to suggest Goku Black and Zamasu are much more popular than Cell with a lot of salt. Frankly, I think it's misleading and wrong. For one thing, it's the result of a very small set of self-selected participants. It should be obvious why its unsafe to extrapolate from such a small set of people, but because people CHOOSE to participate in the survey its also not a representative group. This means that people who choose to take a popularity survey are outliers, they don't represent the wider audience of more casual Dragon Ball fans.

Given all that, we should think about this result and look for other sources to sanity check it. One good tool for this is Google Trends. This is a service provided by Google that lets you compare how frequently people search for various terms. This is also imperfect, of course, but it is a vastly larger sample set and it is much more representative. Is there any reason why a fan of Zamasu would be less likely to use Google than a fan of Cell? I can't think of one!

So, here's what we find:



It doesn't even look close! People are searching for Cell roughly 8 times as frequently as either Zamasu or Goku Black. This, to me, suggests that the results of the survey are deeply flawed. It also aligns with my intuition. DBZ is so much more established and beloved than DBS, it would be shocking if a new character somehow managed to eclipse an old favorite like Cell, wouldn't it?

EDIT: It's possible that the search term "Dragon Ball" + Cell is picking up other, unrelated results, since of course Cell is a word that's used in other contexts. For example, someone might search "Dragon Ball Prison Cell" or (incorrectly) "Dragon Ball animation cell". I'm not too concerned about this, given the dramatic gap between the results. Even if we throw away half of the results for Cell, you're still left with a 4 to 1 ratio in his favor.

[Skar]

Yeah but it's been almost 1 year since the movie was revealed. 1 year since their reveal, we already knew that Frieza and Broly were going to feature in their respective movies. Is there anything that points to Cell coming back?

I think it's only speculation based on some maybe unrelated video game news about Cell. The last trailer implied they have a secret weapon in that machine towards the end but that might be it. I wouldn't be surprised if Cell returns since there aren't many antagonists in DBS that don't reference or have inspiration from a previous antagonist. This version of Cell could end up with a different personality than the original since the tone of this film is more light hearted than the Cell saga. They likely wouldn't be resurrecting the same Cell and creating a new being with similar technology.

[SupremeKai25]

Alternatively, Cell could come back and it might not raise the stakes at all. He could be used for comic relief. Who knows!

Maybe? This would remind me of that DBZ movie that brought Frieza back only to have Gohan literally oneshot him, this wouldn't surprise me too much.

I think it's only speculation based on some maybe unrelated video game news about Cell. The last trailer implied they have a secret weapon in that machine towards the end but that might be it. I wouldn't be surprised if Cell returns since there aren't many antagonists in DBS that don't reference or have inspiration from a previous antagonist. This version of Cell could end up with a different personality than the original since the tone of this film is more light hearted than the Cell saga. They likely wouldn't be resurrecting the same Cell and creating a new being with similar technology.

Then they should just have the Gammas fuse and have their fused form resemble Cell. Why would the fusion of two shark men resemble a bug man? Toriyama won't care.

This way, a bone is thrown to the Cell fandom because the new main villain will look like him.

[Skar]

Then they should just have the Gammas fuse and have their fused form resemble Cell. Why would the fusion of two shark men resemble a bug man? Toriyama won't care.

This way, a bone is thrown to the Cell fandom because the new main villain will look like him.

That could happen. The RR army had some secret they were going to release at the end of the trailer so it's probably separate from the Gammas. They could still fuse to help out against that threat or before the RR army decides to use it as a last resort.