How Would you Rewrite the Piccolo Daimao arc?

[Osmium]

Hullo, my first post here. I’ve been a big DB fan for several years, particularly of everything up to Freeza. Probably my favourite stretch of the series is the 23rd TB through the Saiyajin stuff, but the Piccolo Daimao arc has always fascinated me for all that it tries and fails to do.

I always remember it being built up as the best part of the entire series, and I enjoy it immensely, but the numerous flaws in it do annoy me somewhat, such as how straightforward and non-interactive the story gets between old Daimao stopping Goku’s heart and Goku killing Drum.

I can accept Goku’s heart starting again since it’s medically possible, but it does come off as a major cop-out to me, since it’s a really wishy-washy segment where we get a scene where it appears Goku is dead, but he’s not, and he’s generally fine except needing a senzu. It’s a case of you can’t have your cake and eat it too in my opinion.

I’ve always been bothered too about how Tenshinhan doesn’t even get a chance to fight Piccolo because Roshi knocks him out. It’s not even like he’s unconscious, he’s watching the whole thing which makes it even more insulting in my opinion. Piccolo gets what he wants way too easily after “killing” Goku, getting basically no challenge from any of the other characters.

The scene of Piccolo killing everyone in the capital was pretty cool, but it’s still a bit anticlimactic. He basically walks in and just takes the throne. Couldn’t we at least see an army be sent that Piccolo (or one of his children) gets to destroy in a crazy manner? There should have also been more focus on the actual chaos and destruction that ensues with Piccolo in power.

The Chōshinsui is the largest disappointment in my opinion, since it goes against everything Karin (my favourite character BTW) was about. Karin explicitly taught Goku during the RR arc that there’s no good substitute for actual training and pushing yourself. It seems to go against the message of the entire arc as well, which in my opinion is about learning to control your emotions. Goku was at his angriest and most impulsive throughout the first part of the arc, getting nearly killed three separate times (Tambourine, the fight with Yajirobe, and obviously Piccolo), and nearly running off to certain death when he hears about Roshi.

And so what does Karin do? He gives Goku a “quick and easy” solution to the problem which magically makes him much calmer. It’s a very lazy way of driving character development, Karin may as well have hypnotized Goku to not be so angry and injected him with a couple steroids since it would have had about the same effect. It’s so removed and sterile from everything we see of how Goku improves throughout the series before this.

I don’t really think the anime’s solution is that much better actually, since it still seems too removed from the actual plot. Usually people talk about how Goku needs to earn the water, but I think it goes beyond that, it should be something that directly ties in with his struggles, mental processes, and effectively using his strength. Nether the manga or the anime does it suitably for me.

This is why I’m asking what you guys would do if you had a chance to rewrite this arc to fix any flaws you see in the story. I may expand on some of my ideas later, but I’d like to see what others have to say.

[Robo4900]

Honestly, the only thing I'd change is to rework the magic water section.

The anime actually did address this somewhat by making this into a quest Goku had to go on, which did him a lot of harm before it took effect, whereas the manga just had Karin give it to him. Not a perfect solution though.

Actually, the anime enhanced the story in a couple of ways, mainly through the inclusion of 8 and Sno. I seem to recall they slightly changed the way Ten's Mafuba failed as well.

But broadly speaking, I still really like the Piccolo Daimao arc. I think it really works, and its main deficiencies would be built on in the following arcs that would follow a similar template. It's part of the story's evolution.

[TheGreatness25]

This was arguably the best arc in the pre-Z series. I wouldn't change a thing. Maybe I'd change the character designs for the lackies.

[jjgp1112]

The big problem with that arc that Gaffer Tape exposed it's that it's an expanded rehash of the Tao Pai Pai portion of the Red Ribbon arc, copying the same story beats to more mixed results - like you said, the heart stopping thing. At LEAST have like, Yajirobe revive him instead or repeating the Dodonpa thing without what made that actually clever.

Perhaps, Goku goes into a coma, and then we see the world plunge into a dystopian shithole for a few weeks while the rest of the gang tries (and fails) to fend things off. Then, when Goku wakes up, he's ready to jump back into battle...and THAT'S when Kami shows up and is like "I'm afraid I can't let you do that." And he undergoes REAL training, not that Holy Water bullshit that undermined the Sacred Water message.

Like you, I also have beef with Tien's usage. Another thing the Anime salvaged. In fact, I'd say that overall, the anime version of the Piccolo arc is MUCH better than the manga. A rare win from Toei!

[MasenkoHA]

With the foresight of a Room of Spirit and Time being a thing I would of had Goku meeting Popo and Kami earlier and Goku training in there for a day instead of drinking Kami ex Machina water

[Osmium]

Perhaps, Goku goes into a coma, and then we see the world plunge into a dystopian shithole for a few weeks while the rest of the gang tries (and fails) to fend things off. Then, when Goku wakes up, he's ready to jump back into battle...and THAT'S when Kami shows up and is like "I'm afraid I can't let you do that." And he undergoes REAL training, not that Holy Water bullshit that undermined the Sacred Water message.

The training is something I’ve given some thought to. A concept I like is that Karin has a special water hidden away called the Xinmozhishui - “Water of Hidden Demons”. Instead of it being a generic power increase, it instead causes the user to face their inner struggles and force them to overcome them through dark dreams which become mental training.

It can only be taken in very small amounts over time or else it will cause the user to go crazy and likely die. Karin plans to have Goku take a gradually larger amount of the Xinmozhishui before he goes to sleep for a two week period. Meanwhile, Karin has Goku fight against himself and Yajirobe during every day for that two week period.

Karin notices that Goku isn’t fighting to his full proficiency due to his rage and impatience and thus begins trying to streamline his movements. The Xinmozhishui slowly improves Goku’s mental clarity and along with his daily practice he starts becoming a much better and calmer fighter. Goku becomes very frustrated when during the first few days there don’t seem to be any results, and Karin tells him to have patience and understand that only one step can be taken at a time.

In the final nights of taking the Xinmozhishui the negative thoughts and dreams become much worse and Goku is forced to fight himself at his dark core - the Oozaru, his most bestial, unpredictable form. He realises in fighting the Oozaru that he is the monster that killed Son Gohan. With this sobering realization, he vows to never allow such rage to control him again. It takes everything to take down the Oozaru, including not just brute strength but patience and understanding of his opponent. He eventually is the victor and tames the Oozaru, and his rage. This is why we figuratively see the Oozaru behind Goku during the fight.

On the last day of training he wakes up with his mental training complete, and as a different person. He fights Karin to test his strength and now far outclasses Karin in just about all departments. He now is still angry, but calm and in control of his emotions. Karin tells Goku he has now exceeded himself and is beginning to reach the level of the divine. Goku is now ready, and sees the absolute destruction and chaos Piccolo has caused in that time and is now ready.

Part of this was inspired by a YouTube comment that said it would be a good idea if Goku had to spiritually face the Oozaru and recognize his latent rage, but I changed it a good amount to deal more with how Goku has to deal with patience and you can’t get results quickly.

[MasenkoHA]

The big problem with that arc that Gaffer Tape exposed it's that it's an expanded rehash of the Tao Pai Pai portion of the Red Ribbon arc, copying the same story beats to more mixed results - like you said, the heart stopping thing. At LEAST have like, Yajirobe revive him instead or repeating the Dodonpa thing without what made that actually clever.

Tbf, when Toriyama has a formula he likes my God is he gonna stick to it. What are any of the Z arcs except rehashes of the Daimao arc? All 3 tournament arcs follow a pretty close formula with the biggest shake up being Krillin taking Yamucha's place as the guy who loses in the quarter finals to the guy Goku will fight in the finals.

Hell, excluding the four star ball I'm pretty sure Goku finds the dragon balls in the Red Ribbon arc in nearly exact order they were found in the Shen Long arc.

Like you, I also have beef with Tien's usage. Another thing the Anime salvaged. In fact, I'd say that overall, the anime version of the Piccolo arc is MUCH better than the manga. A rare win from Toei!

I'd go far as saying both the Saiyan and Daimao arcs were better than the manga versions.


Toei made up for it with Namek's glacier pacing though

[PurestEvil]

I would change three things:

1. Yajirobe does CPR on Goku and revives him. It would have given Yajirobe some wholesome character development and show that he is not just some mean-spirited coward (similar to him slicing Great Ape Vegeta's tail off), as well as make Goku getting back up look less of a cop-out.

2. Goku does actually go through some trial to attain the Super Divine Water, probably like how the anime did it. I honestly don't have any of my own ideas for this because I thought the anime did it pretty well already.

3. Tenshinhan actually tries to do the Mafuba. Here is how I write that bit:
- Tien fights Drum
- Drum beats Tien up a bit
- Tien whips out his 4 arms just before he almost loses and knocks Drum down
- Tien recognizes that he is running out of usable energy
- Tien turns to King Piccolo, who taunts him for being to weak to beat him
- Tien whips out the DENSHI JAR and Piccolo freaks the crap out
- Tien performs the Mafuba and successfully puts Piccolo's ass in that jar
- Tien drops, but not dead. In actuality, because Tien was stronger than Roshi (remember his fight with Jackie Chun), he still lives. However, he is rendered immobile
- Piano (the pterodon looking mazoku) approaches the jar to reopen it. However, Tien points a finger at him (excuse the shoddy dialogue).
- Tien: "STOP! I will not let you release that demon Piccolo again!"
- Piano: "Oh, you? HAHAHAHA, what are you going to do? You barely have any energy left! Even if you could muster some, you know you would end up dying!"
- Tien: "Really?" He throws both of his arms forward and clasps his hands "After everything I have been through...and the life I have led...do you think death scares me?" He forms a triangle with his thumbs and index fingers
- Piano: "Wha-what are you saying?"
- Tien to himself: "Muten Roshi...Chaozu...forgive me for not saving you earlier..."
- A spark of ki appears in Tien's hands, frightening Piano
- Tien, shouting: "KIKOU-"
- Tien is interrupted as he gets stomped on the back by an irate Drum, who regained consciousness in time. Piano is in shock.
- Drum: "Piano! Open the jar now!"
- Piano swiftly opens the jar, and Piccolo slowly reemerges.
- Piccolo is taken aback when he sees the sky and his own hands again; as he processes the situation and regains his composure after a while, he looks at Tien.
- Piccolo: "Drum...get off of that man right now." Drum complies
- Piccolo: "Tenshinhan...I must commend you for your tenacity. However, for scaring me like that, you must be punished!" He raises his arm "DIE!!!" His arm descends onto Tien's unmoving body
- Goku, in the nick of time, kicks Piccolo's arm out of the way. The rest of the story remains the same!

[90sDBZ]

I'll never understand why people have a problem with the Ultra Divine Water, at least the anime version anyway.

It's not just a cheap powerup. Goku has to risk his life for it, and he goes through hell during the process. The anime also adds in the journey leading up to it, and has Goku confront "the darkness", which all fits the tone and stakes of the arc.

One thing that does bug me is Tien's plan to stop Piccolo. He plans to seal Piccolo away at the cost of his own life while Piano is standing right there, meaning Piano could simply free Piccolo again right after Tien dies. Aside from that I love the way Tien is utilised in this arc, with him being seemingly the last line of defense and attempting to atone for his past actions. He's already been shown to be able to master techniques after seeing them once, so him learning the Evil Containment Wave makes perfect sense. And yeah it would have been nice to have him actually fight Piccolo.

[Osmium]

I'll never understand why people have a problem with the Ultra Divine Water, at least the anime version anyway.

It's not just a cheap powerup. Goku has to risk his life for it, and he goes through hell during the process. The anime also adds in the journey leading up to it, and has Goku confront "the darkness", which all fits the tone and stakes of the arc.

Other people can speak for themselves, but my problem with the Chōshinsui is that it's very detached and even contradictory to the actual conflict and messages of the story. Goku does "go through hell" but it's the most non-engaging and uninteresting form possible of doing that. All we see is Goku struggle on the ground for a couple of hours before inexplicably rising with vastly improved mental clarity and higher strength. Goku learns absolutely nothing from it, and the audience gets nothing out of it.

I say it's actually contradictory to the ideas of the story because it gives Goku exactly what he wants in a convenient manner. The first half of this arc involves Goku running around like a maniac, powered basically by nothing but rage and impulse. It's very unlike Goku and is one of the few times in the series we see Goku in a state of having to control his emotions and patience. Goku, instead of having to actually improve himself in a meaningful way that the audience can get satisfaction out of, instead he just gets stronger because the plot says so. Like I said above, Karin may as well have hypnotized Goku to become calmer and stuck some needles in him for how distinctive the Chōshinsui is and what it does. It's antithetical to Karin as well, who before this arc was all about showing that there are no quick and convenient solutions to problems.

The anime is at least a little more engaging with it, but I still don't find the darkness story all that fitting. Having Goku go through some mental trickery is interesting, but the message and conflict of darkness are quite generic in my eyes. Instead of dealing with a more pertinent theme in the story like learning patience and using calmness to an advantage, it tries to trap Goku in with the promise of safety which doesn't seem appropriate to me. Goku was already launching himself to near-death multiple times in this arc alone, so I'm not sure why it's supposed to be so impactful when he decides to defy darkness.

[WittyUsername]

The whole idea behind the Ultra Divine Water would work better if we saw Goku go through some kind of internal battle while taking it. The anime handled it better for sure. Also, the fact that the Ultra Divine Water exists in the first place does unfortunately undermine the message during the Red Ribbon Army arc.

[Shorty GZ2]

Basically do what the anime did (Goku actually has to go through a trial to prove himself past his rage & weakness of being worthy/able to drink the Divine Water, & Ten actually does get to use the Mafuba), but better (maybe just redo the Karin Tower twist w/ the water not actually working or having had any effect by the time Goku gets to drink it & have it take place over a more prolonged period of time, while have Ten actually capture Piccolo for a bit but the goons manage to free him)