Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Nistarkail]

Yeah, I would like to know why Gohan seems to deteriorate so rapidly after a scant few years of inactivity from training yet characters such as Krillin and Yamcha are able to maintain the lead ahead of Tenshinhan and Chaozu respectively. We have no confirmation on the positioning of the humans throughout the early and mid portions of Super but nothing has been provided to indicate the dynamics have changed; except for Roshi being deemed a more adequate set of boots to put on the ground compared to Yamcha and Chaozu despite his advanced age presumably making any prospects of substantial growth unlikely for him.

When Krillin faces Yunba, he stated that he was not like 20 months (prev. Days) before the first match. So, leaving Yamcha and Tien whose information about training are null, the "strongest" earthing did something (but surely without the RoSaT or Gravity Room). So, he was the only one who improved among the trio.

He crashed his head on the building without being K.O.ed and he finished the fight with some effort against a doped opponent, so I suppose that now he was at level of Dr. Gero or C-19.

First, he crashed on a the building before being too much damaged.



And then, he K.O.ed his opponent without the intent to kill . But honestly, the idea of Toyotaro was to show that not always slight differences between power levels count every time.

1) Their battles were stated to be 2 months apart.
2) Krillin and everyone were stated to have been training intensively during these 2 months timeframe to defeat moro and his goons which made them "stronger than ever".

You are right. There were 2 months!

[Lord Beerus]

The only characters that have undergone any change in DBZ are Vegeta and Piccolo, Goku only started using his Saiyan abilities after learning the truth about his origin. Almost no one in DBZ went through with our change of character or views so even there was little to change.

I'm quite confused at the point you're trying to make and especially how you're trying to frame it.

Are you trying to justify the lack of character development for the current cast of characters in Super is due to what the original series already did with them? If so, then you are unintentionally agreeing with my original point of retiring Gohan as a character if you can't figure out a way to develop him organically due to his character arc already concluding in the original manga.

It's no development, 4 year old Gohan didn't like to fight so 25 year old Gohan also doesn't like to fight with the difference that he stopped being a coward.

Okay... um... uh... yeah... I'm done here.

I'm gonna bow out of this debate because at this stage, you're not even making any salient points.

[Soba Mask]

Piccolo has changed for sure.

After all these years he says fuck it and give me power Shenron!

Still asking myself why Elder Kai isn't simply awakening all of them in his free time. Goku and Vegeta I understand because unlike Piccolo they still try to master something on their own.

But Trunks... Goten... Hell even Krillin

[Xeogran]

Still asking myself why Elder Kai isn't simply awakening all of them in his free time. Goku and Vegeta I understand because unlike Piccolo they still try to master something on their own.

But Trunks... Goten... Hell even Krillin

Because the method of his awakening was used as a comedy scene, and it wouldn't be funny the 3rd time that's why

[FortuneSSJ]

Instead of all these small trailers, I would rather to have a longer trailer. It's hard to get exicted when a trailer is not longer than 30 seconds.

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Piccolo has changed for sure.

After all these years he says fuck it and give me power Shenron!

Still asking myself why Elder Kai isn't simply awakening all of them in his free time. Goku and Vegeta I understand because unlike Piccolo they still try to master something on their own.

But Trunks... Goten... Hell even Krillin

It make me wonder if Toyotaro had an early peek at the script and saw that Toriyama was handing out asspull powerups via wishing and decided to do the same in the latest arc. If so that explains why he was so comfortable doing that with granola

[ObnoxiousNamek]

Assuming that the guy's not just messing around, if something from Toyotaro's take on Dragon Ball AF (first thing that comes to mind) appears in DBSSH I think I'm going to die. (Not necessaily in a bad way, it's more in the way where you say "I'm dying" after laughing a little too hard a little too long.) If it's not that and it's something even wackier, like Gohan Blanco, then I'll definitely die.

But what about Gohan Calvo

bald Gohan

El Hermano becoming canon

[MisteryOne]

I don't know how to feel about Piccolo's wish. It makes sense, sure, but why now? Why didn't he try it back on the Champa or Universe Survival arcs? Specially on the later. The out-of-universe explanation may be obvious, but still.

Piccolo has changed for sure.

After all these years he says fuck it and give me power Shenron!

Still asking myself why Elder Kai isn't simply awakening all of them in his free time. Goku and Vegeta I understand because unlike Piccolo they still try to master something on their own.

But Trunks... Goten... Hell even Krillin

It make me wonder if Toyotaro had an early peek at the script and saw that Toriyama was handing out asspull powerups via wishing and decided to do the same in the latest arc. If so that explains why he was so comfortable doing that with granola

It was already stated that the Cereal set of Dragonballs was Toriyama's idea tho, that's probably why it happened in the first place.

Trough that does make me wonder how the arc could have gone without such an easy way to power up the antagonists. It had such a good set-up...

[LastationLover5000]

Why? Because he calls her a cutie, and says she can stay on his planet if she likes? Plain flirting needs censoring now?

Apparently, because people are reading rapey undertones where there are none.

I haven't seen anyone read 'rapey' undertones to the described scene but there is sexual harassment if the described scene is to be believed. A male character voiced by a male written by a male for a child audiences in a film directed by a male telling a female character that she can stay on his planet because she is cute and will make a good wife someday is pretty clear sexual harassment.

I'm honestly without words. I genuinely miss the days where media was out, and could be enjoyed, without every single bit of it being nitpicked. For starters, by Dragon Ball standards, complimenting someone's looks and saying they'd make a great wife is bloody tame. Two, and someone will have to actually correct me if I am wrong, I've seen that sort of comment more than once in an anime, so I assume it is considered a compliment in Japan. Thirdly, if you're that bothered by a scene, then the media just isn't for you. The dude paid a girl a compliment and you're upset.

[Extreme_kai]

But what about Gohan Calvo

bald Gohan

El Hermano becoming canon

Nah, we are so getting Cell Dorado

[LastationLover5000]

Still asking myself why Elder Kai isn't simply awakening all of them in his free time. Goku and Vegeta I understand because unlike Piccolo they still try to master something on their own.

But Trunks... Goten... Hell even Krillin

Because the method of his awakening was used as a comedy scene, and it wouldn't be funny the 3rd time that's why

The thing is, we should also be asking why they didn't just hand out god power to everyone with the ritual this way too. Or why they don't always fuse to fight a strong foe. The smart solution is not always the one the writer likes to take.

[MisteryOne]

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.

Still asking myself why Elder Kai isn't simply awakening all of them in his free time. Goku and Vegeta I understand because unlike Piccolo they still try to master something on their own.

But Trunks... Goten... Hell even Krillin

Because the method of his awakening was used as a comedy scene, and it wouldn't be funny the 3rd time that's why

The thing is, we should also be asking why they didn't just hand out god power to everyone with the ritual this way too. Or why they don't always fuse to fight a strong foe. The smart solution is not always the one the writer likes to take.

This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

[LastationLover5000]

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.

Because the method of his awakening was used as a comedy scene, and it wouldn't be funny the 3rd time that's why

The thing is, we should also be asking why they didn't just hand out god power to everyone with the ritual this way too. Or why they don't always fuse to fight a strong foe. The smart solution is not always the one the writer likes to take.

This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

Because that would take away marketing attention from Gokū and Vegeta. Most of their decisions are made not for telling a story now, but for marketing. I firmly believe they think having unique colours for Gokū and Vegeta figurines make them more attractive from a marketing standpoint. There is no other reason.

[LastationLover5000]

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.

Because the method of his awakening was used as a comedy scene, and it wouldn't be funny the 3rd time that's why

The thing is, we should also be asking why they didn't just hand out god power to everyone with the ritual this way too. Or why they don't always fuse to fight a strong foe. The smart solution is not always the one the writer likes to take.

This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

I do believe in Japan, that is considered a compliment. Not every single thing is a thinly veiled pass at sex. Chill.

[MisteryOne]

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.

The thing is, we should also be asking why they didn't just hand out god power to everyone with the ritual this way too. Or why they don't always fuse to fight a strong foe. The smart solution is not always the one the writer likes to take.

This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

I do believe in Japan, that is considered a compliment. Not every single thing is a thinly veiled pass at sex. Chill.

Eh no, that's not how it works. Something can be supposed to be a compliment but still be degrading, and that line can certainly be seeing as that by our society's point of view. It not being seen as something bad in Japan doesn't mean everyone internationally has to accept it. Not saying that I agree with it having to be censored, but I understand why people find it upsetting. Different cultures see the same topics on different ways. Just like how Roshi's fight with the U4 girl was just a bunch of jokes perfectly normal in anime, but from a western point of view they can be seen as disgusting because of what they hint.

I have no idea about what you mean by "not every single thing is a thinly veiled pass at sex", and I am chill lol I simply apologized for a misunderstanding.

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.

The thing is, we should also be asking why they didn't just hand out god power to everyone with the ritual this way too. Or why they don't always fuse to fight a strong foe. The smart solution is not always the one the writer likes to take.

This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

Because that would take away marketing attention from Gokū and Vegeta. Most of their decisions are made not for telling a story now, but for marketing. I firmly believe they think having unique colours for Gokū and Vegeta figurines make them more attractive from a marketing standpoint. There is no other reason.

IMHO that is still perfectly compatible with coming up with an excuse to not power up other characters tho, even if it's a throwaway one like Toriyama usually does. Hell, fans did it for years. "Hybrid saiyans can't use SSG", "a Saiyan that was part of a ritual can't be part of another" or even just a simple "we tried it but it didn't work" or "Vegeta refused" would do the work, that's my point. But the ritual has just been completely ignored since BoG -which to be fair it's also very Toriyama...- which is just jarring.

Ironically enough Toriyama seems to have started the color craze by pure accident, but I do agree they are obviously marketing oriented by now. There was no real reason for Ultra Instinct and Ego to have unique hair colors.

[Lukmendes]

Honestly, at this point, who knows how that Beerus-Cheely scene could be interpreted.

Let me remind you that the censorship in Resident Evil 4 VR showed that implying you're interested in someone and that you might want to go on a date with them later is deemed unacceptable.

Dialogues that were censored and taken out - because "unacceptable by modern standards" as they phrased it or something along those lines - include things as light as:

Spoiler:

"You know, you're kinda cute. Give me your number when I get back?
- May I remind you that you're still on duty?
- (sigh) Story of my life..."

"So Leon, after the mission is done, how about we do some overtime?
- Sorry.
- Somehow I knew you'd say that, but hey, doesn't hurt asking."

"Leon, it's been six hours since our last transmission, I was starting to get worried.
- Don't you mean lonely? Anyway, I must have lost conciousness."

So yeah, just saying things like "oh come on, admit you missed me a little" to someone saying they were worried or saying to someone "I think you're really cute, would you like to spend some more time together and go on a date or something?" can already be considered as going way too far.

So I don't doubt that Beerus saying anything about Cheely being cute and allowed to stay here as much as she wants would already be considered too much by some people, but I don't think they'll go as far as needing to delete the scene in any country.

This Capcom nonsense was so silly lol.

And just about an year before in RE3 remake we had some creature shoving an egg (or somethin' like that) in Jill's throat, that is apparently more acceptable than light flirting.

Piccolo has changed for sure.

After all these years he says fuck it and give me power Shenron!

Still asking myself why Elder Kai isn't simply awakening all of them in his free time. Goku and Vegeta I understand because unlike Piccolo they still try to master something on their own.

But Trunks... Goten... Hell even Krillin

I think in the anime, old Kaioshin suggested to use his powers on Goku too.

With how much he could multi-task when he did it with Gohan (Unlocking powers while paying attention to what Boo is doing, and possibly even doing it while sleeping), makes me wonder if he can unlock more than one person's power at a time.

Because the method of his awakening was used as a comedy scene, and it wouldn't be funny the 3rd time that's why

It could always happen offscreen, but then that would make the method feel even more like an asspull lol.

El Hermano becoming canon

Honestly, with how much of a popular shitpost he was, it's disappointing Jiren doesn't have El Hermano's colors in DBFZ.

Those who'd get the joke would get a laugh out of it, those who didn't would just assume it's a "Player 2" style of colors (Since there's a red and blue difference in player 1 and 2 costumes for fighting games).

I'm honestly without words. I genuinely miss the days where media was out, and could be enjoyed, without every single bit of it being nitpicked. For starters, by Dragon Ball standards, complimenting someone's looks and saying they'd make a great wife is bloody tame. Two, and someone will have to actually correct me if I am wrong, I've seen that sort of comment more than once in an anime, so I assume it is considered a compliment in Japan. Thirdly, if you're that bothered by a scene, then the media just isn't for you. The dude paid a girl a compliment and you're upset.

As far as I've seen, Japan has been largely unchanged over these kinds of things in anime, with the biggest difference I've noticed in DB being that Roshi is actually a bit tamer with his perverted habits in Super, even then, ToP has that moment where he basically threatens to rape some chick, and it's played for laughs over the "I can't be a proper wife if that happens!" on the woman's side, so yeah lol.

Ironically enough Toriyama seems to have started the color craze by pure accident, but I do agree they are obviously marketing oriented by now. There was no real reason for Ultra Instinct and Ego to have unique hair colors.

I think UI having white hair was Toriyama's idea lol.

I can see why though, UI is a transformation, it basically functions like "Super Saiyan Blanco", only they try to pretend is has more depth than that with the auto dodge, but it still gives a tremendous power up, so it's a new Super Saiyan in practice anyways.

[Kagari]

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.

The thing is, we should also be asking why they didn't just hand out god power to everyone with the ritual this way too. Or why they don't always fuse to fight a strong foe. The smart solution is not always the one the writer likes to take.

This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

Because that would take away marketing attention from Gokū and Vegeta. Most of their decisions are made not for telling a story now, but for marketing. I firmly believe they think having unique colours for Gokū and Vegeta figurines make them more attractive from a marketing standpoint. There is no other reason.

The reality is the SSG merchandise never did very well and Goku and Vegeta have largely fallen off the past few years in terms of fan interest when it comes to said merchandise sales. It's actually other characters fans are showing more interest in lately and characters like Gohan getting a new figure just about every month this year instead of those two. So I don't think their decisions are for marketing - if anything, this new movie seems to be based largely on soothing fan complaints and going from there.

[LastationLover5000]

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.


This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

Because that would take away marketing attention from Gokū and Vegeta. Most of their decisions are made not for telling a story now, but for marketing. I firmly believe they think having unique colours for Gokū and Vegeta figurines make them more attractive from a marketing standpoint. There is no other reason.

The reality is the SSG merchandise never did very well and Goku and Vegeta have largely fallen off the past few years in terms of fan interest when it comes to said merchandise sales. It's actually other characters fans are showing more interest in lately and characters like Gohan getting a new figure just about every month this year instead of those two. So I don't think their decisions are for marketing - if anything, this new movie seems to be based largely on soothing fan complaints and going from there.

Then I really need a reason why they haven't given them the god forms, because it makes no sense and they should be handing god power out to EVERYONE rather than letting everyone just match gods casually.

[LastationLover5000]

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.


This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

I do believe in Japan, that is considered a compliment. Not every single thing is a thinly veiled pass at sex. Chill.

Eh no, that's not how it works. Something can be supposed to be a compliment but still be degrading, and that line can certainly be seeing as that by our society's point of view. It not being seen as something bad in Japan doesn't mean everyone internationally has to accept it. Not saying that I agree with it having to be censored, but I understand why people find it upsetting. Different cultures see the same topics on different ways. Just like how Roshi's fight with the U4 girl was just a bunch of jokes perfectly normal in anime, but from a western point of view they can be seen as disgusting because of what they hint.

I have no idea about what you mean by "not every single thing is a thinly veiled pass at sex", and I am chill lol I simply apologized for a misunderstanding.

EDIT: Woah, I only saw that Beerus called Cheelai cute, not the "you would make a good wife" thing. That may be on Japan as a whole, sure, and it may be tame for DB standards... but that changes the whole thing for sure, sorry.


This is why I wish they had come up with some type of excuse for not abusing the SSG ritual. With fusing we have "muh pride" -which may be dumb but its something- but why are Goten, Trunks and specially Gohan not Gods already?

Because that would take away marketing attention from Gokū and Vegeta. Most of their decisions are made not for telling a story now, but for marketing. I firmly believe they think having unique colours for Gokū and Vegeta figurines make them more attractive from a marketing standpoint. There is no other reason.

IMHO that is still perfectly compatible with coming up with an excuse to not power up other characters tho, even if it's a throwaway one like Toriyama usually does. Hell, fans did it for years. "Hybrid saiyans can't use SSG", "a Saiyan that was part of a ritual can't be part of another" or even just a simple "we tried it but it didn't work" or "Vegeta refused" would do the work, that's my point. But the ritual has just been completely ignored since BoG -which to be fair it's also very Toriyama...- which is just jarring.

Ironically enough Toriyama seems to have started the color craze by pure accident, but I do agree they are obviously marketing oriented by now. There was no real reason for Ultra Instinct and Ego to have unique hair colors.

The difference between what Muten Rōshi did and what Beerus is stated to have done is like night and day. What Rōshi did - and I'm sure a lot of people are numb to what it actually is, calling out everything and anything online to make themselves feel better - is actual harassment. Beerus merely paid Cheelai a compliment that people are now taking out of context.

As for the God issue, if Toriyama did come up with a reason for it, I'd be less irate. But there's an interview - on here actually, I think - that mentions half-breeds being able to undergo the ritual, merely saying the strength would be different between each user based on their own individual strength. So yeah, sadly that doesn't work.

[Shorty GZ2]

More context on Piccolo just wishing to have his potential unleashed: https://twitter.com/DBSChronicles/statu ... 3231715330
https://twitter.com/DBSChronicles/statu ... 8897436673

After losing to Gamma 2, Piccolo decides to have his potential unlocked. He goes to Dende so he could draw out his potential like Elder Guru did in Namek, but Dende isn't skilled enough to do it, so he recommends Shenron. Dende tells Piccolo that he has upgraded Shenron to now grant 3 wishes (earlier it was 2 if a wish was powerful/difficult like involving resurrecting a large number of people, now it's 3 no matter what wish). After Bulma's 2 wishes, Piccolo's wish is the 3rd one.
And yeah, Pan hasn't been kidnapped yet in the movie.

Climax spoiler: https://twitter.com/DBSChronicles/statu ... 2699030528

Spoiler:

One out of Gamma 1, Gamma 2, Hedo, Carmine or Piccolo will die