Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Noah]

Sorry guys, but I believe this is where Dragon Ball met its path to become more like Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokémon type of franchises.
Storytelling just doesn't matter anymore, they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

It all adds up to THIS!

Looking to these spoilers just shows once again, how risky is having Toriyama writing everything he wants without a editor to tell him "No!"

Spoiler:

Orange Piccolo is a real name?! White-haired Gohan from a rage boost?! Bulma using the Dragon Balls to get a bigger ass?! Goten/Trunks can't go Super Saiyan? Cell Max?!

But before thinking why Toriyama is guilty of all that, let's take a look on:

In 2013 we had the first DB movie after 17 years, that had indeed good storytelling and a bit of world building, but fans though it lacked action... What Toriyama did it? "Well, they want action let's bring back Freeza (again) with a new transformation (recolor) versus Goku and Vegeta with their new blue haired SSJ forms (another recolor)!" And I don't know why Toriyama thought this would be "fine" as in a interview after BoG he said Goku would take the path to only focus in his common SSJ form (putting aside SSJ2/3) that has inherited the power of SSJ God. But then we have Bandai, Shueisha and Toei that could have pressured him to design new shiny forms for the characters as ya already know: they gotta sell the toys, no matter what!

Something that proves this thesis is that Toriyama didn't wanted to make anything related to Broly in his own story, but then we got Kale, which was not enough as they managed to pressure the man to write a movie about a retconned Broly and freaking Gogeta that he was never interested in the first place!

Not wanting to play the devil advocate, but Toriyama is not the only villain in this story, this franchise is creatively bankrupt! It just can't move on to other directions, is all about new shiny transformations and rehashed villains over and over again! And the worst thing is that they don't even care to explain things like before anymore, the thing is just there for sh*t and giggles.


I'm still gonna watch it cause it's damn Dragon Ball, but I'm sad with the steps that this franchise has taken to be another one that only cares about selling merchandising and nothing else.

[Grimlock]

Who beat Kefla? The answer is yes.

Don't think about it, it doesn't matter.

Oh, if only things were that easy. I mean, they are for me, as I don't really care about who's stronger than who and who beats who. But if you are one of those "power scalers" enthusiast, this does become a major and important detail:

• In the anime, Ultra Instinct -Sign- Goku defeated Super Saiyan 2 Kafla.
• In the manga, Ultimate (?) Gohan defeated Super Saiyan Kafla.

It doesn't take a genius to know that the power level difference here is bigger than Cell-X/Cell Max. The difference between continuities can make all the difference in short and long terms for those who care about power level. The transformation Kafla uses also makes a big difference.

It's high time people learned to separate continuities, and that they have no relation to one another. This will help things to become easier to understand.

[Sora Saiyan]

I'm confused what this means for the continuity.

1) Gohan still has to learn how to use his Ultimate Form again, even though he knew how to do it in the ToP both in the manga and anime.
2) Broly and Jiren are mentioned as if they were the most recent events, rather than Moro and Granolah, even though this is chronologically after both manga arcs.
3) Pan doesn't know how to fly even though she knew how to in the anime.

1) It's just another case of Gohan slacking off. Nothing more to it honestly. I hate it, but it's to be expected now.
2) I don't quite know how Brolys mentioned, but mentioning Jiren in the way they did allows him to still be relevant post Moro and Granolah, since now he is in the same ball park as Goku and Vegeta from the ToP just much more highly tuned. I'm not a fan of it honestly, but it seems to be confirmed by Whis after, so it's not just Vegeta spewing nonsense.
3) The Pan flying scenes took place in what could best be described as "filler". Just look at it the same way you would as Ginyu being in Res F or, something much more similar, Goku fighting Arale again.

I wish we could have had Vegeta and Goku sparring all out, the restrictions Whis placed on them dulls the outcome a lot, but whatever. Also Goku and Vegeta not showing any powers reeks of "We don't know what the mangas gonna be doing with them, so let's not show off any of Goku and Vegetas powers just incase". This movie was wrote immediately after Broly I believe, and knowing that I can't shake the feeling that's why Goku and Vegeta are so restricted.

[Berserker1921]

I'm confused what this means for the continuity.

1) Gohan still has to learn how to use his Ultimate Form again, even though he knew how to do it in the ToP both in the manga and anime.
2) Broly and Jiren are mentioned as if they were the most recent events, rather than Moro and Granolah, even though this is chronologically after both manga arcs.
3) Pan doesn't know how to fly even though she knew how to in the anime.

1) It's just another case of Gohan slacking off. Nothing more to it honestly. I hate it, but it's to be expected now.
2) I don't quite know how Brolys mentioned, but mentioning Jiren in the way they did allows him to still be relevant post Moro and Granolah, since now he is in the same ball park as Goku and Vegeta from the ToP just much more highly tuned. I'm not a fan of it honestly, but it seems to be confirmed by Whis after, so it's not just Vegeta spewing nonsense.
3) The Pan flying scenes took place in what could best be described as "filler". Just look at it the same way you would as Ginyu being in Res F or, something much more similar, Goku fighting Arale again.

I wish we could have had Vegeta and Goku sparring all out, the restrictions Whis placed on them dulls the outcome a lot, but whatever. Also Goku and Vegeta not showing any powers reeks of "We don't know what the mangas gonna be doing with them, so let's not show off any of Goku and Vegetas powers just incase". This movie was wrote immediately after Broly I believe, and knowing that I can't shake the feeling that's why Goku and Vegeta are so restricted.

Wait are they still saying ToP Jiren is relevant to current Goku and Vegeta?

[FortuneSSJ]

Spoiler:

Gohan kills Cell Max: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i77ScTjR7UY

Nozawa's delivery of "Makankosappo" >>>

[Kataphrut]

Who beat Kefla? The answer is yes.

Don't think about it, it doesn't matter.

Oh, if only things were that easy. I mean, they are for me, as I don't really care about who's stronger than who and who beats who. But if you are one of those "power scalers" enthusiast, this does become a major and important detail:

• In the anime, Ultra Instinct -Sign- Goku defeated Super Saiyan 2 Kafla.
• In the manga, Ultimate (?) Gohan defeated Super Saiyan Kafla.

It doesn't take a genius to know that the power level difference here is bigger than Cell-X/Cell Max. The difference between continuities can make all the difference in short and long terms for those who care about power level. The transformation Kafla uses also makes a big difference.

It's high time people learned to separate continuities, and that they have no relation to one another. This will help things to become easier to understand.

That was very much a rhetorical question.

The actual answer is that neither of those things happened in the context of these movies because Toriyama is just gonna write what he wants to write for the sake of giving us a good time and we might as well be here for it.

[Sora Saiyan]

Wait are they still saying ToP Jiren is relevant to current Goku and Vegeta?

Vegeta apparently states that the gap between Goku and Vegeta during the ToP wasn't even that large, and that Jirens advantage came from thinking clearly and making hardly any unnecessary movements. Whis applauds Vegeta and tells him that he's correct. In Goresh video he doesn't mention them comparing Jiren to their current self, just how they compared in the ToP.

[Berserker1921]

Wait are they still saying ToP Jiren is relevant to current Goku and Vegeta?

Vegeta apparently states that the gap between Goku and Vegeta during the ToP wasn't even that large, and that Jirens advantage came from thinking clearly and making hardly any unnecessary movements. Whis applauds Vegeta and tells him that he's correct. In Goresh video he doesn't mention them comparing Jiren to their current self, just how they compared in the ToP.

But how do we know they are in the same ball park now?

[Sora Saiyan]

Wait are they still saying ToP Jiren is relevant to current Goku and Vegeta?

Vegeta apparently states that the gap between Goku and Vegeta during the ToP wasn't even that large, and that Jirens advantage came from thinking clearly and making hardly any unnecessary movements. Whis applauds Vegeta and tells him that he's correct. In Goresh video he doesn't mention them comparing Jiren to their current self, just how they compared in the ToP.

But how do we know they are in the same ball park now?

I don't believe he is, I just looked back, and realised I've worded it awkwardly, and not explained myself either.

I don't quite know how Brolys mentioned, but mentioning Jiren in the way they did allows him to still be relevant post Moro and Granolah, since now he is in the same ball park as Goku and Vegeta from the ToP just much more highly tuned

When I say relevant, I mean that he was such a fine tuned machine he is someone they can still look towards even once hes been surpassed since he was so overwhelming when he was in the same ball park as them. That's unheard of in DB and is noteworthy by Vegeta for that reason. They can make larger performance gains by imitating Jiren over something as ridiculous as doubling their power. Kind of crazy really.

[Soba Mask]

Huge spoiler vid of the final fight

Spoiler:

https://files.catbox.moe/avbqwn.mp4

I bet the new form won't ever be explained like SSRage Trunks

[Sora Saiyan]

I bet the new form won't ever be explained like SSRage Trunks

I'm not too sure ya know. Toriyama does occasionally explain things in interviews. Also SSJRage was an anime exclusive form, and with Trunks being in the future it likely won't be seen again. This on the other hand will likely be used by Gohan going forward in the series, so the manga may explain it post Granolah arc, or we might get an interview explaining it.

[dbgtFO]

Spoiler:

Not much of a fight, one or two physical hits and then straight to Big Ki Blast Finale...
Poor Cell though, with all that screaming and no talking, it didn't really feel like he was classically evil, but more like just a force of nature, acting purely on instincts. It sounded like he was in massive pain and I felt sorry for him

[Soba Mask]

I bet the new form won't ever be explained like SSRage Trunks

I'm not too sure ya know. Toriyama does occasionally explain things in interviews. Also SSJRage was an anime exclusive form, and with Trunks being in the future it likely won't be seen again. This on the other hand will likely be used by Gohan going forward in the series, so the manga may explain it post Granolah arc, or we might get an interview explaining it.

So anime and manga are not Canon after all. Or what canon is Toriyama using for ToP and all? We never have seen his thoughts ok in and never will

BTW Freeza... What was his role after all? He was shown in the trailers in oje shot and he looked awesome.

And as much as I like Gohan the form screams edgy as fuck fanservice. It's like taking Fanfic SS 10 and some Blanco memes combined.... And I said... It never will be explained.

Further more I still hate how much they humiliated Goten and Trunks. Not for Fat Trunks but for them not being able to go SSJ.

That's absolutely stupid

[Gt91]

Spoiler:

cell max is something horrible and stupid.... it's totally nonsense for me. Why using a bigger 2d form ?

About Gohan and Piccolo, i really like these new forms!

[Mr_CINDER]

Spoiler:

cell max is something horrible and stupid.... it's totally nonsense for me. Why using a bigger 2d form ?

About Gohan and Piccolo, i really like these new forms!

Actually the 2nd form of cell is Toriyama's favorite

[Jord]

I can't be the only one who got reminded of Bebi Vegeta with the white hair.

Bizarre how there are already clips of the full fight on Youtube. Knowing how Japan appreciates filming in movie theatres I wouldn't be comfortable capturing these clips and sharing them.

This whole movie just seems like a hodgepodge of concepts thrown together, sprinkled with a ton of throwbacks/nostalgia. It's just really weird to rely on throwbacks this much. And not just subtle throwbacks either. It gets crammed into your face, from the animation of the Gohan transformation to the fact that he has to beat "Cell" again. It's like a mix of the Android saga with Bio-Broly. Weird.

With the movie now being out in Japan and all the secrets revealed, the marketing has been pretty bad, at least for it's Japanese release. Pretty much no fanfare, no theme song. It just feels underhyped. Coming off the successful Broly release it feels jarring. Not even comparing both movies quality-wise, but the marketing for Broly felt way better. Yeah, Covid may play a part in this but that doesn't excuse the lack of the song.
Not to mention that the Western release comes way after the Japanese release. In this current age 2 months is an eternity. Especially with the spoiler culture we live in.

[Mr_CINDER]

I can't be the only one who got reminded of Bebi Vegeta with the white hair.

Bizarre how there are already clips of the full fight on Youtube. Knowing how Japan appreciates filming in movie theatres I wouldn't be comfortable capturing these clips and sharing them.

This whole movie just seems like a hodgepodge of concepts thrown together, sprinkled with a ton of throwbacks/nostalgia. It's just really weird to rely on throwbacks this much. And not just subtle throwbacks either. It gets crammed into your face, from the animation of the Gohan transformation to the fact that he has to beat "Cell" again. It's like a mix of the Android saga with Bio-Broly. Weird.

With the movie now being out in Japan and all the secrets revealed, the marketing has been pretty bad, at least for it's Japanese release. Pretty much no fanfare, no theme song. It just feels underhyped. Coming off the successful Broly release it feels jarring. Not even comparing both movies quality-wise, but the marketing for Broly felt way better. Yeah, Covid may play a part in this but that doesn't excuse the lack of the song.
Not to mention that the Western release comes way after the Japanese release. In this current age 2 months is an eternity. Especially with the spoiler culture we live in.

As far as I remember there was a whole panel dedicated to superhero in jump festa and this the celebration during the movie release https://mobile.twitter.com/DB_super2015 ... 1354668033.

[mute_proxy]

Hmm.. Maybe Gohan's white form is related to...

Spoiler:

Piccolo's second orange form? They both had potentials unlocked, and went beyond that (one with help from Shenron), and both seemingly have red eyes. Seems like they're 'limit breaking' forms, Ultimate 2.0.

[Soba Mask]

Super detailed summary by MShadows like the last time with the Broly movie. I am just posting the link to it before Geekdom that attention w... will still eat for his video again like with Broly

https://www.fanverse.org/threads/dragon ... y.1261253/

[Block88]

Or hear me out
She was a baby when she did that and forgot how to fly over time
Caulifla forgot how to turn Ssj2 until she Goku gave her the pointers
Piccolo outright forgot his Giant form despite the Moro arc happening
So it ain't impossible to believe Pan forgot how to fly sometime after

Pan flew instinctively when feeling happy. That's not something she would "forget" as she started growing up. Especially around people who fly all the time around her. It literally makes no sense.

Caulifla went SS2 all of one time, by complete accident, to stop Berserker Kale. Unlike Goku and Vegeta, who had spent years training and mastering these forms, Caulifla, Kale and Cabba had hardly any experience at all and was their first time transforming in most cases. Having the potential for those forms was there, but no the experience or training.

Piccolo's giant form was a literal giant weakness, as was shown during the 23rd Budokai. Even if his physical strength alone increased proportionally, he was a much easier target to hit and all his most vulnerable points were all that much easier to target. It would've also been useless against Moro since Moro would just be draining his energy anyway and Piccolo was nowhere near Moro's level due to that whole arc being utter nonsense.

So no. It's actually impossible for Pan to have forgotten how to fly. It's much more probable that they see the audience either being dim or simply not caring about all the continuity errors nor the story being a complete waste.

This movie confirms what I've been saying about DBS for some time- all three versions of it are canon and trying to pick a true version is a mug's game. The same is true of DBS Broly, which was more of a sequel to Resurrection F than the Tournament of Power.

The Pan being able to fly thing is barely an issue anyway- she was a baby, it's perfectly reasonable to assume she doesn't remember doing it. Though on that note, did Jiren ever meditate in the manga? It's apparently a big plot point but I only remember him doing it in the show.

Except that's not true. The DBS Broly movie is the first Super Movie. Which is disconnected from the DBZ Movies. Which includes Battle of Gods and Revival of F. So no, DBS Broly was made as a direct sequel to the ToP. Otherwise it wouldn't have bothered mentioning those events. Now what could happen is they reboot the anime and adapt the Broly movie into an Arc, like they did with BoG and RoF. However, until they actually do so, then DBS Broly is canon to the Anime.

Gohan could not only overpower Raditz, but he could also obliterate a mountain and fly as a four-year-old. However, those were only spur of the moment happenstances, and he needed proper training in order to fully realize his powers. Likewise, Pan only flew in a spur of the moment happenstances while in a failing spaceship set to crash back into Earth. For Saiyans, Ki Control comes naturally; however, since Pan is only a quarter-Saiyan, much like Gohan, she needs training to freely and willingly use her abilities.